₦airaland Forum

Blakjewelry:
My concept of perfection differs from the ops, if we are talking about a self sustaining system as a perfect system I will agree but the op idea of a perfect system and how evil came to be is flawed.

Ok

Blakjewelry:
You see, you are contributing to a topic or rather quoting from a section you know nothing about. I only ask to test your knowledge, yes while you might think you know about the so call fall of lucifer, the tales are not rewritten in the current version of the Bible you read rather they were in other books such as the book of Enoch and the book of Adam and eve.
Infact the few places were it was mentioned like the book of Amos and Jude were only referencing the other book, Experts acknowledge this.

There is no expert who acknowledges a book outside the sixty-six books found in the Bible as inspired!
Politics is the root cause of evil in the world and i've shown you how it started in the Bible anything outside the Bible is false!

MaxInDHouse:
There is no expert who acknowledges a book outside the sixty-six books found in the Bible as inspired!
Politics is the root cause of evil in the world and i've shown you how it started in the Bible anything outside the Bible is false!

I ask you to provide evidence of the rebellion in heaven but you couldn't provide any just quoting the book of Amos that didn't gave any details.

You keep mentioning the fall of the watchers without knowing it origin. Perhaps you probably heard from somebody who probably heard from somebody too.

Blakjewelry:
I ask you to provide evidence of the rebellion in heaven but you couldn't provide any just quoting the book of Amos that didn't gave any details.
You keep mentioning the fall of the watchers without knowing it origin. Perhaps you probably heard from somebody who probably heard from somebody too.

I've told you the origin and the result of the rebellion that's plaguing mankind till today but you just want empty stories of no worth!

MaxInDHouse:
I've told you the origin and the result of the rebellion that's plaguing mankind till today but you just want empty stories of no worth!

And I told you to back up your claim from the Bible yet you can't.
Infact you point out the origin using eternal source you know nothing about as your own opinion.

Blakjewelry:
And I told you to back up your claim from the Bible yet you can't.
Infact you point out the origin using eternal source you know nothing about as your own opinion.

Here we go through what you asked and the scriptural resources i gave you!

MaxInDHouse:
The Bible explains it all but if you're not diligent in your research you will mix up everything.
Evil started when one person seeks the backing of others for three reasons:
[1] To challenge the supreme being.
[2] To establish his own rule.
[3] To deceive others in joining him.
Freewill is what God gave all of us {Genesis 2:16} but seeking the support of others to establish our own standard is what forbids! Genesis 2:17
Now imagine a man who hates his fellow human for reasons best known to him surely he will look for means to hurt the other person but then seeking the support of others by instigating them against the one he hates is the root cause of evil because by then he has established a standard that's not yet clear to his gullible supporters it when the table turns that sincere ones will remember that he is now doing exactly what he compelled them to join hands in hurting someone else.
That's how politics began in the garden of Eden!

Blakjewelry:
Can you produce Bible verses to back up your claim of 1,2 and 3?

MaxInDHouse:
[1 & 2]
Satan is the Shining One among all other angels some Bible translations called him "Lucifer" God inspired Isaiah to pen down what caused the downfall of this powerful angel:
How you have fallen from heaven, O shining one, son of the dawn! How you have been cut down to the earth, You who vanquished nations!  You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to the heavens. Above the stars of God I will lift up my throne, And I will sit down on the mountain of meeting, In the remotest parts of the north' Isaiah 14:12-13

All the spirit sons of God in heaven are called "morning stars" {Job 38:7} so by saying he will ascend to the heavens above the stars of God he will lift up his throne means he wants to rule all the other angels which is God's domain!

[3]
Satan used a snake like puppet to speak to the first woman and convinced her {1Timothy 2:14} to join him in rebelling against God's authority {Genesis 3:4-5} it was not a literal fruit she ate rather it simply means both herself and her husband were ready to start their own rule over whoever comes after them and they don't want God to set standards rather they want to establish their own. That is how Satan used tricks to become the ruler of mankind from that moment he knew that Adam and Eve will surely die but their descendants who don't know him will be deceived into politics. That's the root cause of all the evil going on around the world today!

[quote author=MaxInDHouse post=136354116][/quote]Genesis 2:16–17

16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, “You may surely eat of every tree of the garden,
17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

That the Bible verse you quoted, now tell how does that translate 1, 2 and 3.

Think well before you reply else this going to be my last reply as it shows that you are not really prepared for such conversations.

Blakjewelry:
Genesis 2:16–17
16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, “You may surely eat of every tree of the garden,
17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”
That the Bible verse you quoted, now tell how does that translate 1, 2 and 3.
Think well before you reply else this going to be my last reply as it shows that you are not really prepared for such conversations.

Are you human or a machine?
Genesis Chapter 2 does not appear at all in my response.
So open your eyes and read it again:

MaxInDHouse:
[1 & 2]
Satan is the Shining One among all other angels some Bible translations called him "Lucifer" God inspired Isaiah to pen down what caused the downfall of this powerful angel:
How you have fallen from heaven, O shining one, son of the dawn! How you have been cut down to the earth, You who vanquished nations!  You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to the heavens. Above the stars of God I will lift up my throne, And I will sit down on the mountain of meeting, In the remotest parts of the north' Isaiah 14:12-13

All the spirit sons of God in heaven are called "morning stars" {Job 38:7} so by saying he will ascend to the heavens above the stars of God he will lift up his throne means he wants to rule all the other angels which is God's domain!

[3]
Satan used a snake like puppet to speak to the first woman and convinced her {1Timothy 2:14} to join him in rebelling against God's authority {Genesis 3:4-5} it was not a literal fruit she ate rather it simply means both herself and her husband were ready to start their own rule over whoever comes after them and they don't want God to set standards rather they want to establish their own. That is how Satan used tricks to become the ruler of mankind from that moment he knew that Adam and Eve will surely die but their descendants who don't know him will be deceived into politics. That's the root cause of all the evil going on around the world today!

Dtruthspeaker:
See, you used the word "too". Exactly proving my point that you were indeed committing the fallacy by trying to make it difficult.

Three points are reasonable enough for anyone who passed secondary school to respond to.

Dtruthspeaker:
It is you now pretending like you do not see that I pointed out that you are unable to respond.


See how you have changed post yet again? You asked "Why are innocent children born without limbs if evil is caused by our choices? Who chose that?"

Now I have answered you,
you have still changed post to genetic defects as if being born without limbs is not also genetic defect.

Since you understand that the condition born without limbs to be a an example of a genetic defect then how did I change the post? This is simple reading comprehension and you're failing at it.

Dtruthspeaker:
If indeed you truly have a point answer the questions I asked you which is,

The evils that fall on children are they not arising from the activities of their adults?

How are genetic defects which sometimes come from random gene mutations the effects of adults? How are natural disasters caused by the activities of adults?

Dtruthspeaker:
Is it that the children are living on their own and in their own world then evil just came and hit them fiam?

Are you saying that God can't protect the children because they live with adults? Why should that be so if he is powerful enough to do so? Also, unborn children with genetic defects already have those conditions before ever taking their first breath.

Dtruthspeaker:
What rubbish is this? Are you not fully in control when you are eating or bleeping or playing with gas fire?

Did the gas maker make provision for the gas to explode and burn you up? Or did the hypo maker make provision for it to burn your innards?

Men this is the most bleeped up excuse I have ever heard.

Hypo is a bleaching agent. We use it for our laundry and for cleaning. We he fact that is poisonous is a negative property of the chemicals used to make it. We always try to find the safest option that can be mass produced at a reasonable price because we as humans have limited abilities and cannot freely pick and choose the properties of chemicals we produce.

God, on the other hand, is supposed to be all powerful, he could've have made a world where the chemicals used in bleaching agents were safe to use. He could've made a world where unborn babies didn't get random negative mutations and come out only to suffer and die or live impaired lives. Yet he chose to create this one where all these things happen.
That's the difference between man and God.

Dtruthspeaker:
Now you have added another question that was never there since you see that all your former questions do not make sense at all. Especially as you call someone good just for giving you a room to stay when you were looking for accommodation like some people experienced in the university and abroad is it now God Who has given you this lovely place to stay rent free? Clearly a very ungrateful person

Once again, you have failed to read and comprehend. The third point in my original post was:

If God is an all-powerful creator, then evil cannot exist as a concept without him explicitly creating it. Hence, we MUST have been created with the capacity to do evil...

I'm going to put it very simply so that you can understand. So read this very carefully:

Statement 1: God created everything that
exists
Statement 2: Evil exists
Statement 3: Therefore, God created evil

Go ahead and discuss that, you are free to ignore everything else.