₦airaland Forum

FreeIgboho:
You hang everything on "God does not change".
If that is true how did creation begin?

This is a worthy question.

I dont think anyone can know the answer.

However my limited perception of it is akin to the sun and emanation of light - God being analagous to the sun and light being analogous to creation.

And why did animal sacrifices stop?

They havent stopped in Judaism per se. The only issue is that the proper location (the Temple) has been destroyed.

DeepSight:
This is a worthy question.

I dont think anyone can know the answer.

However my limited perception of it is akin to the sun and emanation of light - God being analagous to the sun and light being analogous to creation.



They havent stopped in Judaism per se. The only issue is that the proper location (the Temple) has been destroyed.

Creation CAN'T start without a CHANGE occurring within the creator.

Animal sacrifices ceased long, long ago even with temples built everywhere

sonmvayina:
where?
i have asked you this question a thousand time already. show me where a Jewish prophet prophesied that God was coming in human form( numbers 23:19) to be sacrificed as a sin sacrificed.
so you read a book that says God came in the flesh and you did not question it but believed it, are you like 5 years old.?
is the first thing to do not to check and confirm first?
you blindly believed
i have checked, and there is just NO WHERE. that was even remotely mentioned.

if you can show me where, i will do 50gb data for you.
Then why would God forbid idolatry? or you don't know worshiping a man as God is tantamount to idolatry?

see commandment number 2

''You shall not make for yourself a graven image or any likeness which is in the heavens above, which is on the earth below, or which is in the water beneath the earth.'' worshiping a man, something found on earth is forbidden by GOD.

Bethlehem:
Micah 5:2, often cited as a prophecy about the Messiah's birthplace, is interpreted as foretelling Jesus' birth in Bethlehem.
Virgin Birth:
While not a direct prophecy of a place, Isaiah 7:14, which speaks of a virgin giving birth, is often connected to the virgin birth of Jesus.
Lineage:
Various passages, including Genesis 49:10, Isaiah 11:1, and 2 Samuel 7:12-16, are cited as prophecies concerning Jesus' lineage, particularly his descent from the line of David.
Suffering Servant:
Isaiah 53 is widely interpreted as describing a suffering servant who would bear the sins of others, a role Christians believe Jesus fulfilled.
Other Prophecies:
Other passages, such as Psalm 22 (regarding mockery and crucifixion), Zechariah 9:9 (concerning riding on a donkey)

Also see Isaiah 9:6 below

FreeIgboho:
Creation CAN'T start without a CHANGE occurring within the creator.

As I said, this question is a profound one well above the pay grade of any human being.

However, it appears that you do not believe in the idea that God is immutable.

Animal sacrifices ceased long, long ago even with temples built everywhere

I dont care about this matter.

All I know is that in Judaism, there isnt an instruction halting animal sacrfices and the reason it stopped was the destruction of the temple.

FreeIgboho:
Do you see anywhere it says "and you'll be disvirgined"?

I didnt use that word. I used a different word.

DeepSight:
As I said, this question is a profound one well above the pay grade of any human being.

It's really not that profound. All it means is that everything that exists has always existed within God. Matter cannot be created nor destroyed.

However, it appears that you do not believe in the idea that God is immutable.

God is immutable in the sense that everything is there all at once, outside time. How can you have change without time?e

I dont care about this matter.

All I know is that in Judaism, there isnt an instruction halting animal sacrfices and the reason it stopped was the destruction of the temple.

So God suddenly stopped caring about all those peace offerings and atonement offerings?

FreeIgboho:
It's really not that profound. All it means is that everything that exists has always existed within God. Matter cannot be created nor destroyed.


God is immutable in the sense that everything is there all at once, outside time. How can you have change without time?e

I hope you understand that you are saying there was no creation - everything being eternal in the past, everything being self-existent. Furthermore, this makes it harder for you to claim there is any need for anyone to do anything towards salvation. We live, in your view, in one moment of eternity in which all things have occurred already and remain eternally occurring.

I am not saying this is a philosophical wrong or impossibility. It is even intriguing. Its just that you have to recognize the consequences. It collapses any idea of creation, and virtually all the ideas in the bible about original sin and salvation are all automatically rendered meaningless.

So God suddenly stopped caring about all those peace offerings and atonement offerings?

Animal sacrifices are none of my business.

DeepSight:
I hope you understand that you are saying there was no creation - everything being eternal in the past, everything being self-existent. Furthermore, this makes it harder for you to claim there is any need for anyone to do anything towards salvation. We live, in your view, in one moment of eternity in which all things have occurred already and remain eternally occurring.

I am not saying this is a philosophical wrong or impossibility. It is even intriguing. Its just that you have to recognize the consequences. It collapses any idea of creation, and virtually all the ideas in the bible about original sin and salvation are all automatically rendered meaningless.



Animal sacrifices are none of my business.

How can that be when creation is subject to time?
This also where JimRohn goes off rails

FreeIgboho:
How can that be when creation is subject to time?
This also where JimRohn goes off rails

Creation cannot be subject to time if everything that exists and that will ever exist has already happened from eternity in the mind of God and is all happening in one eternal moment - dont contradict yourself.

DeepSight:
Creation cannot be subject to time if everything that exists and that will ever exist has already happened from eternity in the mind of God and is all happening in one eternal moment - dont contradict yourself.

You mistake "in the mind of God" with actually happening which is within time and outside God

FreeIgboho:
You mistake "in the mind of God" with actually happening which is within time and outside God

Lol, there we go again. The man who says we cant know the foggiest thing about God conclusively declaring the ins and outs of the mind of God, time, creation and pre-creation.

My friend, you simply are not honest with yourself. The truth is that your disposition actually discloses that you believe you know every last divine secret of the Godhead. Simple.

DeepSight:
Lol, there we go again. The man who says we cant know the foggiest thing about God conclusively declaring the ins and outs of the mind of God, time, creation and pre-creation.

My friend, you simply are not honest with yourself. The truth is that your disposition actually discloses that you believe you know every last divine secret of the Godhead. Simple.

Did I say I know? We'er just trying to find out how an immutable God can create anything. Just as in freewill, I always tell you it's FROM HUMAN PERSPECTIVE!!!

FreeIgboho:
Did I say I know? We'er just trying to find out how an immutable God can create anything. Just as in freewill, I always tell you it's FROM HUMAN PERSPECTIVE!!!

Abeg jaare.
Enjoy, Mr. Omniscient.

You state something categorically then come back to say you didnt. Its not the first time, and I have warned you I will not hang around for such.

DeepSight:
Abeg jaare.
Enjoy, Mr. Omniscient.

You state something categorically then come back to say you didnt. Its not the first time, and I have warned you I will not hang around for such.

You are the one mistaking what I write like JimRohn. The idea of creation is within God, timeless. Creation is outside God and subject to time

FreeIgboho:
You are the one mistaking what I write like JimRohn. The idea of creation is within God, timeless. Creation is outside God and subject to time

As you like.

DeepSight:
As you like.

I don't get people like you and sonmvayina (and even Gabrielshow24 on freewill). I mean, HOW can you read this below and still doubt that Jesus is somehow Yahweh??!

Not only that, the prophets said specifically that God was coming. Which other God was coming? How many Gods do they have??!

FreeIgboho:
Bethlehem:
Micah 5:2, often cited as a prophecy about the Messiah's birthplace, is interpreted as foretelling Jesus' birth in Bethlehem.
Virgin Birth:
While not a direct prophecy of a place, Isaiah 7:14, which speaks of a virgin giving birth, is often connected to the virgin birth of Jesus.
Lineage:
Various passages, including Genesis 49:10, Isaiah 11:1, and 2 Samuel 7:12-16, are cited as prophecies concerning Jesus' lineage, particularly his descent from the line of David.
Suffering Servant:
Isaiah 53 is widely interpreted as describing a suffering servant who would bear the sins of others, a role Christians believe Jesus fulfilled.
Other Prophecies:
Other passages, such as Psalm 22 (regarding mockery and crucifixion), Zechariah 9:9 (concerning riding on a donkey)

Also see Isaiah 9:6 below

You are just beating about the bush.
Please hit the nail on the head.

Where did God say he was coming as a man to be sacrificed to himself as a sin sacrifice.
The truth of the matter is there is no where.

Jesus is a pagan concept and ideology.

All those passages you enumerated, none remotely speak of Jesus. All you guys do is remove text out of context. Isaiah 7 is about Isaiah's second son. Who was a sign for king Ahaz. Isaiah 9:6, the son has already been given when Isaiah was writing. He was referring to future king Hezekiah. Isaiah 53 is about a suffering servant. And in more that 8 places prior to chapter 53, Isaiah told you that the suffering servant is Israel...... Isaiah 53 is a soliloquy.. it is what the kings of the earth will say when they see the salvation of Israel. Context is key.
Check for Rabbi Tovia singer on YouTube and follow his channel. You will learn a lot.

My guy, there is no Jesus at all in the Tanakh.

The only scripture he fulfils is Deuteronomy 13.

FreeIgboho:
Can you.please elaborate on these questions?
Why must Jesus bring Torah??

If he was from God, he would defend and uphold the Torah. He never did (according to the story), we know he never existed.

FreeIgboho:
I don't get people like you and sonmvayina (and even Gabrielshow24 on freewill). I mean, HOW can you read this below and still doubt that Jesus is somehow Yahweh??!

Not only that, the prophets said specifically that God was coming. Which other God was coming? How many Gods do they have??!

I said as you like.
Good evening.

sonmvayina:
You are just beating about the bush.
Please hit the nail on the head.

Where did God say he was coming as a man to be sacrificed to himself as a sin sacrifice.
The truth of the matter is there is no where.

Jesus is a pagan concept and ideology.

All those passages you enumerated, none remotely speak of Jesus. All you guys do is remove text out of context. Isaiah 7 is about Isaiah's second son. Who was a sign for king Ahaz. Isaiah 9:6, the son has already been given when Isaiah was writing. He was referring to future king Hezekiah. Isaiah 53 is about a suffering servant. And in more that 8 places prior to chapter 53, Isaiah told you that the suffering servant is Israel...... Isaiah 53 is a soliloquy.. it is what the kings of the earth will say when they see the salvation of Israel. Context is key.
Check for Rabbi Tovia singer on YouTube and follow his channel. You will learn a lot.

My guy, there is no Jesus at all in the Tanakh.

The only scripture he fulfils is Deuteronomy 13.

Do you doubt that Jesus is God?

DeepSight:
I said as you like.
Good evening.

Nice chatting witcha

sonmvayina:
You are just beating about the bush.
Please hit the nail on the head.

Where did God say he was coming as a man to be sacrificed to himself as a sin sacrifice.
The truth of the matter is there is no where.

Jesus is a pagan concept and ideology.

All those passages you enumerated, none remotely speak of Jesus. All you guys do is remove text out of context. Isaiah 7 is about Isaiah's second son. Who was a sign for king Ahaz. Isaiah 9:6, the son has already been given when Isaiah was writing. He was referring to future king Hezekiah. Isaiah 53 is about a suffering servant. And in more that 8 places prior to chapter 53, Isaiah told you that the suffering servant is Israel...... Isaiah 53 is a soliloquy.. it is what the kings of the earth will say when they see the salvation of Israel. Context is key.
Check for Rabbi Tovia singer on YouTube and follow his channel. You will learn a lot.

My guy, there is no Jesus at all in the Tanakh.

The only scripture he fulfils is Deuteronomy 13.

Are you a practicing Judaist

FreeIgboho:
You hang everything on "God does not change".
If that is true how did creation begin? And why did animal sacrifices stop?

Animal sacrifice is not stopping.

When God sends his Messiah, he will build the temple and the animal sacrifice will commence..
I don't know why or when creation began and I don't claim to know.

sonmvayina:
If he was from God, he would defend and uphold the Torah. He never did (according to the story), we know he never existed.

Where didn't he defend the Torah?? He always said he came to fulfill the law not abolish it.

Oh you're back to "he never existed". I thought you have moved beyond that!!!

FreeIgboho:
Where didn't he defend the Torah?? He always said he came to fulfill the law not abolish it.

Oh you're back to "he never existed". I thought you have moved beyond that!!!

Then why "Moses said, but I say. . . "

He changed the laws on at least the following -

1. Vengeance (from "an eye for an eye" to "turn the other cheek" )
2. The sabbath (from strict observance to "the sabbath is made for man and not man for the sabbath" )
3. Punishment for adultery (from stoning to death to "he who has no sin should cast the first stone" )

Etc etc

FreeIgboho:
Where didn't he defend the Torah?? He always said he came to fulfill the law not abolish it.

Oh you're back to "he never existed". I thought you have moved beyond that!!!

I said "according to the story"

He never really existed to begin with. I have always maintained that. A woman can't become pregnant without the input of a man.
God mating with virgins are the Hallmark of Greek/ Roman mythology. The Jews don't have that idea. It's all pagan myths.

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DeepSight:
Are you a practicing Judaist

Not yet....about to become one.
Still in the pipe line

FreeIgboho:
Do you doubt that Jesus is God?

He never even existed. We have to start from there first.
And capital No. He is not God see Numbers 23:19. There is no process whereby a human becomes God. It is idolatry. Christianity is all paganism rebranding. Same old worship of mother and son that was done in the levant in ancient times....

FreeIgboho:
I don't get people like you and sonmvayina (and even Gabrielshow24 on freewill). I mean, HOW can you read this below and still doubt that Jesus is somehow Yahweh??!

Not only that, the prophets said specifically that God was coming. Which other God was coming? How many Gods do they have??!

Where did the prophets say that ?

All the idea that Christianity is built on, where are they in the Tanakh? It is all paganism packaged as facts.

sonmvayina:
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Not yet....about to become one.
Still in the pipe line

What led you down this path pls