₦airaland Forum

♨️♨️♨️♨️♨️♨️♨️

REPLYING A CONSPIRACY THEORIST FOR JUDAS ISCARIOT

According to this Conspiracy Theorist:

“Have you ever heard about the Book of Judas? According to the Book of Judas, which was removed from the Bible, Judas was not a betrayer but rather the most obedient disciple.

It was Jesus who instructed him to hand Him over in order to fulfill the secret divine agenda.

Did you know that the story of Judas’ death in the Bible is contradictory? Matthew 27:5 contradicts Acts 1:18. Go check it for yourself; I didn't make it up.”

******************

Now, here are some of the comments generated from this:

Akabueze Victor Daberechi:
Yes you are correct. Mathew said he dropped the money at the temple and went to hang himself. While Acts said he used the money to buy a field, there he fell, his belly went open and his intestines gushed out.

Dylan James Oswald:
Omenala Bu Uzo Ezioku Na Ndu the book of Judas was never part of the Bible… Therefore it was not removed.

Taye Plush Feelnmyselftodeath:
(Replying to Dylan James Oswald): — It was.

Ernest Honing:
One common interpretation is that Judas hanged himself (as described in Matthew), and then, at some point later (perhaps after decomposition had begun), his body fell from the tree or structure where he hung himself, resulting in the physical injuries described in Acts.

Russ Fenstermaker:
(Replying to Ernest Honing): — and that would be another contradiction considering the second part was in a field he bought with the money, so...

Akabueze Victor Daberechi:
(Replying to Ernest Honing): — what about the part they talked about how he used the money? Why do you people always come up with silly explanations in defense of someone else's poetry?

Fresh Bambi:
(Replying to Ernest Honing): — so what about the money he dropped in the temple? ...and what about the same money he dropped in the temple he still used it to buy field?

You will explain so tayyyyy!!!

Ernest Honing:
(Replying to both Bambi and Victor): — Judas threw the money at the religious leaders and they, acting as agents for him, took Judas’s money and bought a field.

Fresh Bambi:
1). He threw the money down in the temple and hanged himself.
2). He bought a field with the money and died on the field with ruptured bowel.
After throwing the money in the temple and dying on ropes, he resurrected, took the money from the temple, bought the piece of field and died again on the field?
Now:
Matthew
or
Acts
Who's lying ...because one must be a lie or mistake 🤔

Russ Fenstermaker:
(Replying to Fresh Bambi):— both are a lie, tbh

******************

Now here is my Replying to these:

ON THE EXCLUSION OF THE BOOK OF JUDAS

First, if the book of Judas was written by this same Judas that betrayed the Lord Jesus was part of the bible, the whole bible would be defiled or false. The reasons included: [A] Satan entered or possessed Judas, and he never lived to receive the Holy Spirit in the day of Pentecost. [B] None of the books of the Bible written by any of the disciples or Apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ before the day of Pentecost would qualify as Scriptures because none of them had the Spirit of God yet, though they had the Lord Jesus with them. All Scriptures are by the Holy Spirit of God, not just by eyewitnesses. If they were just eyewitness’ accounts, they would not qualify as Scriptures even though they are testimonies and verified. So the bible must be above eyewitnesses accounts to attain as “Scriptures” having the Breath of the Spirit of the Lord God in them.

Therefore, none of those eyewitnesses walking with the Lord Jesus Christ had the Spirit of God to write any Bible Book or Scriptures by the time the Lord Jesus Christ was yet to ascend in the heavens — The reason was from the moment the Spirit of God descended like a dove and dwelt on the Lord Jesus at Baptism till the day of Pentecost after the ascension of the Lord Jesus, no one else received or had the Holy Spirit, though the Holy Spirit was Promised of the Father to be poured on all flesh in the last days.

[John 7:39] — "He was speaking about the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were later to receive. For the Spirit had not yet been given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.”

So, understand that the books of the bible were written either before or after the Lord Jesus walked and dwelt among men as the “Son of man.” Those scriptures written in “BC” (before Christ was born) are the Old Testament collection, while the New Testament collection are those Scriptures written after Christ Jesus ascended.

This is why I frown at Pastors or Christians when they say, the New Testament began from the Book of Acts or from Paul’s Letters, implying that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, are part of the Old Testament because they talked about the Lord Jesus while He was on earth. But I tell you, all the books of the Bible written after the day of Pentecost are New Testament or New Covenant Books including the Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, written after the Pentecost and ascension of the Lord Jesus. Those Four spoke of events that happened before Pentecost, but by the Spirit, Grace and Perspective that happened after Pentecost, in the Church Age. Just as the book of Genesis spoke of the Beginning or Creations that happened before Moses was born, but written after Moses had seen God and endured seeing the Back of the Lord God who is the Invisible and Eternal One.

Moreover, the Scriptures era ended with the death of the last Apostle of the Lord then. Any other book written after all the twelve Apostles died, do not qualify as Scriptures or Foundation of the Faith. The Faith is laid on the Foundation of the Apostles (after Christ) and Prophets (before Christ), while Christ is Corner Stone.

[Ephesians 2:19-22] — "Therefore you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of God’s household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus Himself as the cornerstone. In Him the whole building is fitted together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord. And in Him you too are being built together into a dwelling place for God in His Spirit.”

[Revelation 21:14] — "The wall of the city had twelve foundations bearing the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.”

[C] — Judas was replaced, and his office given to another person. This replacement cut across all spiritual Inheritance he once had, including his authority to Scriptures or Cannonized Bible Books. All the Church cast lots to replace Judas, and therefore Judas was excommunicated from the Church even after he died.

ON THE SUPPOSED DISCREPANCY BETWEEN BOOKS OF ACTS AND MATTHEW PERTAINING JUDAS ISCARIOT’ DEATH

Read both references elaborately: Do not just take one verse only from each of the passages to build up your Conspiracy: Read:

[b][Matthew 27:3-8] — "Then Judas, who had betrayed Him, when he saw that He was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, Saying, “I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood.” And they said, “What is that to us? see you to that.” And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. And the chief priests took the silver pieces, and said, “It is not lawful for us to put them into the treasury, because it is the price of blood.” And they took counsel, and bought with them the potter's field, to bury strangers in. This is why that field was called, “The field of blood, to this day.”

[Acts 1:18-19] — "Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the middle, and all his bowels gushed out. And it was known to all the dwellers at Jerusalem; so as that field is called in their proper tongue, “Aceldama,” that is to say, “The field of blood.”[/b]

Both references spoke of the same man (Judas Iscariot) and gave the same name to the field, — “The Field of Blood” but gave:

[1] Two different reasons as to why the field was called the “Field of blood.”

[2] Two different buyers of that field of blood, but same money.

[3] Two different postures or sights seen of Judas’ carcass on that field.

Now [1] — The Two different reasons as to why the field was called the “Field of blood” all point to one fact — Judas’ carcass was there, and Strangers were buried there. Matthew say they bought the field to bury strangers, and Acts say Judas’ Carcass was pinned there. Harmonising Matthew and Acts means Judas’ Carcass was the first Stranger and Outcast that was buried there, but not the only stranger to be buried there. Judas became a stranger or outcast, no more part of Israel or part of the Church.

Now [2] — Two different buyers of that field of blood, but same money — blood money or reward of iniquity belonging to Judas. Matthew said the priests and elders used Judas’ blood money to buy the field called “Field of blood,” and Acts said Judas used his blood money or reward of iniquity to buy the “Field of blood.” The idea is not that Judas literally bought the field with the money before he died, but that Judas bought the field with the reward even if he had died.

It's a spiritual expression to tell you that though a dead man does not do anything with his money or properties, the dead man still does things with his rewards or wages of his past deeds he left still in motion. I don't want to say it as men say it, “The evil that men do lives after them or after they die.” But my point is, Matthew spoke of the money (physical purchasing objects) but Acts spoke of the Rewards or Fruits (Outcome) of that evil transaction still in motion or still processing. It's like though a man did not literally or physically do something, but he is blamed or held responsible for it though another person did it, because of what that man had earlier done still ongoing or did not do to prevent or stop the ongoing. So, the language used in Acts was “Rewards of Iniquity” or Wages of Sin or “Gains of robbery” Judas used to buy field of blood even though Judas already died and he physically did not use the blood money to buy field of blood.

[Galatians 6:7-8] — "Do not be deceived: God is not to be mocked. Whatever a man sows, he will reap in return. The one who sows to please his flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; but the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.”


Now [3] — Two different postures or sights seen of Judas’ carcass on that field.

Matthew tells you how Judas died — “by hanging himself;” but Acts tells you how Judas was confirmed dead — “by falling down and his Bowels burst open.”

In those days, someone could be hanged on a tree or pole and still not be dead. Absalom, a son of David, was seen hanging on a tree, but was not dead until Joab thrust and other soldiers with him pinned spears into the hanging man's heart and belly before he died [2 Samuel 18:14-15].

About that week, atleast four men were hung on trees: Judas that hung himself, and the Lord Jesus and the two thieves crucified with Him. The Jews had a tradition that forbids any man hanging to remain hanging although the night: they must bring the man or his corpse down from the hanger before night falls. They came to Judas to bring him down, but found Judas had fallen headlong and his belly bursted open revealing his dirts and corruptions. They came to the two thieves besides the Lord Jesus crucified, and they were still alive, and so they broke the legs of those thieves so they wouldn't escape when they are pulled down from the cross. So those thieves crucified with Him did not eventually die with Him. But when they came to Him, the Lord Jesus was already dead: then one of them pierced Him and instead of His bowels or any dirt or corruption to come out, rather clean and pure water and blood sprinkled like shower upon men.

Judas was a son of perdition, but the Lord Jesus is the Son of God.

You see why the money called “Blood Money” (Matthew) or “Reward of Iniquity” (Acts) had nothing to do with why the Field was called “Field of blood.” — It was called “Blood Money” or “Reward of Iniquity” because it sold the Righteous Blood to death; while on the other hand, the field bought with the blood money was called the field of blood or blood field because of the blood of Judas was on that field. It's not the Blood of Jesus, but the blood of Judas that made that field the field of blood: a grave for strangers.


As for you, the Conspiracy theorist, how dare you say Judas was very obedient disciple, and he was following instruction of the Lord Jesus to betray Him because of divine hidden agenda? Do you also want to become a son of perdition like the Antichrist? Or are you one of the fools that say, if Judas did not betray the Lord Jesus there's no way the Lord Jesus would have gone to the cross for our salvation? Do not say that anymore:

Judas himself, on returning the blood money, confessed he had sinned by betraying the Innocent blood to death. How dare you turn it to saying he had obeyed by betraying the Lord because he was secretly sent the Lord to betray Him? The Lord Jesus said His going to the cross was sure thing to happen, and betraying Him was unnecessary but woe to the man who chose that part or role of Judas in betraying the Lord.

[Mark 14:21] — "The Son of Man will go just as it is written about Him, but woe to that man by whom He is betrayed! It would be better for him if he had not been born.””

John 7:39: "He was speaking about the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were later to receive. For the Spirit had not yet been given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified."

Gal 6:7-8: "Do not be deceived: God is not to be mocked. Whatever a man sows, he will reap in return. The one who sows to please his flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; but the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life."

Mar 14:21: "The Son of Man will go just as it is written about Him, but woe to that man by whom He is betrayed! It would be better for him if he had not been born.”"

Satan has been working tirelessly so that Christianity may fail and to an extent he has been making progress because Jesus handed over the commission to imperfect humans who will in turn pass over the assignment to other imperfect humans when they die or as Jesus puts it in a parable (when men are sleeping) {Matthew 13:25} so after the death of Jesus' twelve apostles and first century disciples who knew the truth Satan began promoting apostates (rebellious excommunicated members who were disciplined due to misconduct and unchristian course) these individuals became political something no member of the first century disciples partake in and they began persecuting anyone who speaks against their activities until they were able to silence or make other members compromise their stand.
This has continued until the twentieth century when America declared freedom of speech expression and worship from that time true Christianity began taking shape again and today true Christianity has fully recovered from it's deathlike condition {Revelations 11:7-10} from the year 1931 the true God gave this group a new name which separated them from all others claiming Christians they are known globally today as JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES! Isaiah 65:15

Jesus returned in the year 1914 only to find out that what he commissioned in the first century has taken a totally different shape {Luke 18:8} so as a spirit king himsel and his angels began looking for any religion that's prepared to make changes so as to conform to what he laid down in the first century.
The only group that yielded to his call is called The International Bible Students Association back then led by one Charles Taze Russell from that time till the year 1931 Jesus continued to teach them how to return to true Christianity all other religions were mocking this group because they keep changing from one doctrine to another as if they don't know what they are doing unknowingly to observers that Jesus the invisible spirit king is the one doing the restructuring until today that everyone on planet earth now know this group as the most active and united group when it comes to preaching and teaching about God's Kingdom throughout the world! Act 1:8

MaxInDHouse:
Satan has been working tirelessly so that Christianity may fail and to an extent he has been making progress because Jesus handed over the commission to imperfect humans who will in turn pass over the assignment to other imperfect humans when they die or as Jesus puts it in a parable (when men are sleeping) {Matthew 13:25} so after the death of Jesus' twelve apostles and first century disciples who knew the truth Satan began promoting apostates (rebellious excommunicated members who were disciplined due to misconduct and unchristian course) these individuals became political something no member of the first century disciples partake in and they began persecuting anyone who speaks against their activities until they were able to silence or make other members compromise their stand...

The Lord Jesus did not handover any commission of the Kingdom movement to any imperfect humans. He Himself still runs things by the Spirit of God. He only chose or sent them, but directed them to wait for the Holy Spirit and Power to guide them and teach them all things.

Those whom the devil planted in the vineyards were not part of those the Lord Jesus chose or sent, though these antichrists or wolves in sheep clothing crept into the fold while men slept or unawares to the true ones, and corrupted the unstable ones but not those the Lord chose and discipled with His discipline in them.

MaxInDHouse:
This has continued until the twentieth century when America declared freedom of speech expression and worship from that time true Christianity began taking shape again and today true Christianity has fully recovered from it's deathlike condition {Revelations 11:7-10} from the year 1931 the true God gave this group a new name which separated them from all others claiming Christians they are known globally today as JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES! Isaiah 65:15

There was no age or era after the Lord Jesus Christ that true Christianity lost shape or died. Even though the number or population of the true Christians became fewer in some of these ages, true Christians were never lacked in any of the ages. Christians are the Salt of the Earth or Ages since then.

Yes, there were era when persecution and killing of Christians trended most, but yet Christians also thrived in those ages.

Wrong to credit the freedom of expression of Christianity to America or American Declaration. True Freedom and Liberty are from the LORD God and His Spirit in all ages, irrespective of state persecutions. Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is Liberty and there is Utterances (freedom of speech). It is not American Declaration, but the Declaration (Utterance) and Presence of the Spirit of the Lord.

MaxInDHouse:
... today true Christianity has fully recovered from it's deathlike condition {Revelations 11:7-10} from the year 1931 the true God gave this group a new name which separated them from all others claiming Christians they are known globally today as JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES! Isaiah 65:15

Jesus returned in the year 1914 only to find out that what he commissioned in the first century has taken a totally different shape {Luke 18:8} so as a spirit king himsel and his angels began looking for any religion that's prepared to make changes so as to conform to what he laid down in the first century.
The only group that yielded to his call is called The International Bible Students Association back then led by one Charles Taze Russell from that time till the year 1931 Jesus continued to teach them how to return to true Christianity all other religions were mocking this group because they keep changing from one doctrine to another as if they don't know what they are doing unknowingly to observers that Jesus the invisible spirit king is the one doing the restructuring until today that everyone on planet earth now know this group as the most active and united group when it comes to preaching and teaching about God's Kingdom throughout the world! Act 1:8

The recovering of the Church is not the interpretation of the Bible reference you made of Revelation 11:7-10.

The Lord Jesus did not return in year 1914. Charles Russell was a liar and a false prophet.

Neither God nor the Lord Jesus founded the organisation of Taze Charles Russell, known as Jehovah's Witnesses. The Lord Jesus is not coming to find or be part of one group or denomination: rather He is coming or returning to take over all, including taking over all the churches and taking over all the world and taking over all kingdoms.

The returning of the Lord Jesus Christ will not be as an "Invisible King" or "Invisible Entity" you were falsely taught. Rather all eyes shall see Him when He returns, including the eyes of those that pierced Him. So, cease from this errors of He had returned as Invisible King in 1914.

Yes, the Lord Jesus is with us as the Spirit of God and Invisible God with us. But the return or coming of the Lord is Physical or Visible, just as His ascension on Mount Olives was Visible and Physical with Flesh.

The second Coming or Return of the Lord Jesus Christ would not be needing "Witnesses" to spread Him as "Eyewitnesses" or "Jehovah's Witnesses." The fact you call yourselves "Witnesses" or "Jehovah's witnesses" while testifying that the Lord Jesus has returned, shows you people are false witnesses.

If He truly returned or came, then all witnesses announcing He returned are false because He will come as the Sun rises and be seen by all. If you alone saw the sun rise, but witnessing to me that the sun has risen while I cannot see the sun with my seeing eyes, the fact you have to suffer to witness or convince people that sun has risen shows you are false or ignorant, because everyone by default would see the sun or light of the sun if it rose.

The Lord Jesus puts it this way, warning against witnesses announcing His has returned:

[Matthew 24:23-27] — "At that time, if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There He is!’ do not believe it. For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive even the elect, if that were possible. See, I have told you in advance. So if they tell you, ‘There He is, in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, ‘Here He is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man."

PCHC:
There was no age or era after the Lord Jesus Christ that true Christianity lost shape or died. Even though the number or population of the true Christians became fewer in some of these ages, true Christians were never lacked in any of the ages. Christians are the Salt of the Earth or Ages since then.

Yes, there were era when persecution and killing of Christians trended most, but yet Christians also thrived in those ages.

Wrong to credit the freedom of expression of Christianity to America or American Declaration. True Freedom and Liberty are from the LORD God and His Spirit in all ages, irrespective of state persecutions. Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is Liberty and there is Utterances (freedom of speech). It is not American Declaration, but the Declaration (Utterance) and Presence of the Spirit of the Lord.

Please interpret what Jesus meant in this verses:

When they have finished their witnessing, the wild beast that ascends out of the abyss will wage war with them and conquer them and kill them. And their corpses will be on the main street of the great city that is in a spiritual sense called Sodʹom and Egypt, where their Lord was also executed on the stake. And those of the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations will look at their corpses for three and a half days, and they do not allow their corpses to be laid in a tomb. And those dwelling on the earth rejoice over them and celebrate, and they will send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those dwelling on the earth. Revelation 11:7-10

Jesus taught his disciples never to raise weapons against anyone! Matthew 26:52

Jesus said his disciples must have love among themselves. John 13:34-35

Jesus prayed for his disciples to have the same line of thought! John 17:22

Can you please mention any church that has all these apart from Jehovah's Witnesses?

PCHC:
The recovering of the Church is not the interpretation of the Bible reference you made of Revelation 11:7-10.

The Lord Jesus did not return in year 1914. Charles Russell was a liar and a false prophet.

Neither God nor the Lord Jesus founded the organisation of Taze Charles Russell, known as Jehovah's Witnesses. The Lord Jesus is not coming to find or be part of one group or denomination: rather He is coming or returning to take over all, including taking over all the churches and taking over all the world and taking over all kingdoms.

The returning of the Lord Jesus Christ will not be as an "Invisible King" or "Invisible Entity" you were falsely taught. Rather all eyes shall see Him when He returns, including the eyes of those that pierced Him. So, cease from this errors of He had returned as Invisible King in 1914.

Yes, the Lord Jesus is with us as the Spirit of God and Invisible God with us. But the return or coming of the Lord is Physical or Visible, just as His ascension on Mount Olives was Visible and Physical with Flesh.

The second Coming or Return of the Lord Jesus Christ would not be needing "Witnesses" to spread Him as "Eyewitnesses" or "Jehovah's Witnesses." The fact you call yourselves "Witnesses" or "Jehovah's witnesses" while testifying that the Lord Jesus has returned, shows you people are false witnesses.

If He truly returned or came, then all witnesses announcing He returned are false because He will come as the Sun rises and be seen by all. If you alone saw the sun rise, but witnessing to me that the sun has risen while I cannot see the sun with my seeing eyes, the fact you have to suffer to witness or convince people that sun has risen shows you are false or ignorant, because everyone by default would see the sun or light of the sun if it rose.

The Lord Jesus puts it this way, warning against witnesses announcing His has returned:

[Matthew 24:23-27] — "At that time, if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There He is!’ do not believe it. For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive even the elect, if that were possible. See, I have told you in advance. So if they tell you, ‘There He is, in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, ‘Here He is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man."

Maximus692:
Jesus taught his disciples never to raise weapons against anyone! Matthew 26:52

Jesus said his disciples must have love among themselves. John 13:34-35

Jesus prayed for his disciples to have the same line of thought! John 17:22

Can you please mention any church that has all these apart from Jehovah's Witnesses?

When you talk about church, you are referring to a "Denomination" or "Sectarian Group" following common idealogy and a set of doctrines.

But when I talk about church, I refer to the "Elects" or "True Few Chosen and Faithful Ones" drawn from every Tribe, Nation, Denomination or Sect, and gathered as Saints under one Fold only the Lord Jesus Christ Himself Shepherds.

I am not interested in a perfect Denomination, perfect Sect, or Perfect Organisation, like Catholic, Anglican, Methodist, Lutheran, Jehovah's Witnesses, Pentecostal, Charismatic, etc. The perfection of any of these groups has never been my view or interest, because all Denominations are Divisions that are not from the Lord but from men dividing the faith in order to rule or control those following them.

You are still trapped in the Divisions or Denominations battles or comparisons among and against themselves, while you are defending the one called "Jehovah's Witnesses" led by Charles Russell.

I do not defend Denominations, but Disciples of the Lord. I am interested in the few True Disciples, Chosen and faithful ones, who are in all and every Denominations but know and follow only the Voice of the Lord Jesus Christ alone in their devotion.

To me, there's no perfect Denomination, and I don't even seek one: but I seek Perfecting of the Saints in every and all churches. Let all Denominations perish, but let all Saints live, flourish, and abide forever in and under Christ alone, not under any pastor or any so called man of God as overseer of any man-made church group.

Maximus692:
Please interpret what Jesus meant in this verses:

When they have finished their witnessing, the wild beast that ascends out of the abyss will wage war with them and conquer them and kill them. And their corpses will be on the main street of the great city that is in a spiritual sense called Sodʹom and Egypt, where their Lord was also executed on the stake. And those of the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations will look at their corpses for three and a half days, and they do not allow their corpses to be laid in a tomb. And those dwelling on the earth rejoice over them and celebrate, and they will send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those dwelling on the earth. Revelation 11:7-10

I may not fully expand these verses because if I do it may take over ten thousand words for me to exhaust these whole verses.

But what exactly are you pointing at in or from these verses.

Summarily, the reference refer to two Witnesses from heaven, from the very Presence of the God of the earth, who were sent to witness or prophesy on earth for 3½ years. Nothing could harm them during the days of their prophesying, but as soon as their days of prophesying ended the Beast or Antichrist that ascended from the Abyss would then kill them. The world celebrate their death for three and half days, but eventually they rose from the dead and with the call to come into heaven they ascended physically or visibly into heaven in the sight or view of all men including their haters.

Again, what point are you pursuing or pushing with these verses?

Paul wrote:

And let us consider one another so as to incite to love and fine works, 25 not forsaking our meeting together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as you see the day drawing near. Hebrews 10:24-25

Are all gatherings of worshipers claiming Christians worth associating with?

Jesus said:

"For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there I am in their midst.” Matthew 18:20

Is Jesus in all gatherings of worshipers claiming Christians?

PCHC:
When you talk about church, you are referring to a "Denomination" or "Sectarian Group" following common idealogy and a set of doctrines.
But when I talk about church, I refer to the "Elects" or "True Few Chosen and Faithful Ones" drawn from every Tribe, Nation, Denomination or Sect, and gathered as Saints under one Fold only the Lord Jesus Christ Himself Shepherds.
I am not interested in a perfect Denomination, perfect Sect, or Perfect Organisation, like Catholic, Anglican, Methodist, Lutheran, Jehovah's Witnesses, Pentecostal, Charismatic, etc. The perfection of any of these groups has never been my view or interest, because all Denominations are Divisions that are not from the Lord but from men dividing the faith in order to rule or control those following them.
You are still trapped in the Divisions or Denominations battles or comparisons among and against themselves, while you are defending the one called "Jehovah's Witnesses" led by Charles Russell.
I do not defend Denominations, but Disciples of the Lord. I am interested in the few True Disciples, Chosen and faithful ones, who are in all and every Denominations but know and follow only the Voice of the Lord Jesus Christ alone in their devotion.
To me, there's no perfect Denomination, and I don't even seek one: but I seek Perfecting of the Saints in every and all churches. Let all Denominations perish, but let all Saints live, flourish, and abide forever in and under Christ alone, not under any pastor or any so called man of God as overseer of any man-made church group.

MaxInDHouse:
Paul wrote:

And let us consider one another so as to incite to love and fine works, 25 not forsaking our meeting together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as you see the day drawing near. Hebrews 10:24-25

Are all gatherings of worshipers claiming Christians worth associating with?

Jesus said:

"For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there I am in their midst.” Matthew 18:20

Is Jesus in all gatherings of worshipers claiming Christians?

Not all gatherings of self-proclaimed Christians are necessarily worth associating with, nor is Jesus necessarily present in all such gatherings, despite their claims. Let’s break it down based on the scriptures you provided and broader biblical principles.

Hebrews 10:24-25
Paul’s words in Hebrews encourage believers to meet together to inspire love and good deeds, especially as the "day" (likely referring to Christ’s return or judgment) approaches. The emphasis is on gatherings that foster spiritual growth, mutual encouragement, and genuine faith. However, not all groups claiming to be Christian align with these goals. Some may promote division, false teachings, or behaviors contrary to biblical principles. For example:
- **2 Timothy 4:3-4** warns that some will gather around teachers who "tickle their ears" with pleasing but false doctrines.
- **1 John 4:1** advises testing the spirits to discern whether a group’s teachings are truly from God, as not all who claim to follow Christ are genuine.

Thus, discernment is key. A gathering worth associating with should reflect Christ’s teachings, promote love, and adhere to sound doctrine (Titus 2:1). If a group deviates into hypocrisy, legalism, or immorality, it may not be a healthy spiritual environment.

Matthew 18:20
Jesus’ statement about being present where "two or three are gathered in my name" implies a condition: the gathering must truly be *in His name*. This means the group is aligned with His teachings, character, and purpose. Jesus is not automatically present in every gathering that claims His name if their actions or beliefs contradict Him. For instance:
- **Matthew 7:21-23** shows that not all who claim to act in Jesus’ name are recognized by Him, as some are called "workers of lawlessness."
- **1 Corinthians 5:11** warns against associating with those who claim to be believers but practice unrepentant sin, indicating that not all "Christian" gatherings are endorsed by Christ.

Jesus’ presence is tied to the authenticity of the gathering’s faith and purpose, not merely their profession of His name.

Practical Considerations
To determine if a gathering is worth associating with or if Jesus is truly present:
1. **Test their teachings**: Do they align with scripture? (Acts 17:11)
2. **Examine their fruit**: Do they produce love, unity, and godliness? (Matthew 7:16-20)
3. **Seek discernment**: Pray for guidance and compare their practices to biblical standards (James 1:5).

In summary, not all gatherings claiming to be Christian are worth associating with, nor is Jesus necessarily present in them. Use scripture and discernment to evaluate their authenticity.

PCHC:
Not all gatherings of self-proclaimed Christians are necessarily worth associating with, nor is Jesus necessarily present in all such gatherings, despite their claims.

What are the qualities of a true Christian gathering so that we can all identify God's organization when we come in contact with them?

MaxInDHouse:
What are the qualities of a true Christian gathering so that we can all identify God's organization when we come in contact with them?

Do not seek to identify God's organisation, rather you should seek to identify God's calling, God's Voice, and God's Words.

You could be among fellowship of Believers, but God's calling for you is to separate from them for the works God called you. You are not separating from them for any fault, but for your path to walking closer with the Lord Jesus who calls you, like Paul and Barnabbas here:

Acts 13:2: "While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.”"

PCHC:
Again, what point are you pursuing or pushing with these verses?

Well the interpretation is simple.

Figure TWO spiritually signify strength in the sense that when one is getting weak the other will give him a backing {Ecclesiastes 4:9} so this refers to the disciples of Jesus who were two groups of sheep {John 10:16} their preaching and teaching in the first century was really effective that they covered the known world of their time.
Their death is what Jesus said at Matthew 13:25 that men were sleeping that's the time Satan's agents overshadowed them and from that time true Christianity disappeared on planet earth {Luke 18:8} until the twentieth century when Jehovah's Witnesses began doing the work again exactly like the first century disciples of Christ! Revelations Revelations 11:11

Can you name a religion among all those claiming Christian churches that's actively preaching and teaching like Jehovah's Witnesses? Matthew 28:19-20

NO!

Can you mention one church where their members are globally known for love among themselves like Jehovah's Witnesses? John 13:34-35

NO!

Can you mention one church where their members have the same line of thought so that whenever they talk about their teaching people can say "i know the church having that teaching" like Jehovah's Witnesses? John 17:22; Ephesians 4:3

NO!

So i'm telling you confidently that true Christianity died after the death of first century disciples of Christ {Revelations 11:7} but in the twentieth century rose again as Jehovah's Witnesses {Revelations 11:11} that's why God gave them another group name to distinguish them out of all the false religions claiming Christians:

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES! Isaiah 65:15

If you don't agree it's OK but that's the undeniable truth and reason why you can't mention the name of your own church now!

MaxInDHouse:
What are the qualities of a true Christian gathering so that we can all identify God's organization when we come in contact with them?

Do not seek to identify God's organisation, rather you should seek to identify God's calling, God's Voice, and God's Words, and to obey or keep them.

You could be among fellowship of true Believers, but God's calling for you is to separate from them for the works God called you. You are not separating from them because of any fault of them, but separating from them because the Lord sends you to the field or to separation. Example, Paul and Barnabbas here:

[Act 13:2] — "And as they were ministering and fasting to the Lord, the Holy Spirit said, “Separate both Barnabas and Saul to Me for the work to which I have called them.”"

Seek fellowship with God more than you seek fellowship with men

PCHC:
Do not seek to identify God's organisation.

This is your own opinion whereas Jesus said:

"By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? Likewise, every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit.  A good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, nor can a rotten tree produce fine fruit" Matthew 7:16-18

Jesus said i should make sure i identify them so i will follow Jesus' instruction!

MaxInDHouse:
This is your own opinion whereas Jesus said:

"By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? Likewise, every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit.  A good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, nor can a rotten tree produce fine fruit" Matthew 7:16-18

Jesus said i should make sure i identify them so i will follow Jesus' instruction!

This is not just my opinion, but the wisdom of God: — You should seek and identify God's Voice and Spirit more than you should identify them by their fruits.

You cannot follow Jesus' instructions just by making sure you identify them or those you term as false. You can only fully follow the Lord's instructions by looking at the Lord and seeking to know Him above all else. Your goal is not to avoid or discriminate against them, but to follow the Lord.

It is not the duty of a true sheep to know strangers in order to avoid them: Rather it's the duty of the Sheep to know the true Shepherd and follow the voice of the Shepherd.

You cannot effectively avoid a counterfeit by knowing the counterfeit: Rather the proper thing is for you to know the real or original, and that knowledge of the true one will keep you from falling into the counterfeit.

PCHC:
This is not just my opinion, but the wisdom of God: — You should seek and identify God's Voice and Spirit more than you should identify them by their fruits.

Guy there is a FRUIT God's Organization should produce.
This fruit has nine qualities: LOVE, JOY, PEACE, PATIENCE, GOODNESS, KINDNESS, FAITH, MILDNESS and SELF-CONTROL! Galatians 5:22-23

No imperfect human can have all these qualities but when talking about the gathering of imperfect humans where God's Holy Spirit is in control imperfect humans will exhibit these qualities as one group! John 17:22

Ọmọ you never know anything but since you feel you know i will leave you alone if you want me to go!

Maximus692:
Guy there is a FRUIT God's Organization should produce.
This fruit has nine qualities: LOVE, JOY, PEACE, PATIENCE, GOODNESS, KINDNESS, FAITH, MILDNESS and SELF-CONTROL! Galatians 5:22-23

No imperfect human can have all these qualities but when talking about the gathering of imperfect humans where God's Holy Spirit is in control imperfect humans will exhibit these qualities as one group! John 17:22

Ọmọ you never know anything but since you feel you know i will leave you alone if you want me to go!

By their fruits, you shall know them — says the Lord.

However, knowing them by their fruits only has limits and can be deceitful. You cannot fully know any man or organisation just by their fruits, including those so-called nine qualities of the fruit you listed.

There are levels of knowledge past knowing by fruits, to knowing by discernment, knowing by revelation or knowing by word of knowledge.

If you still trust only knowing Organizations or persons by their fruits, you are vulnerable to strong deception. The Spiritual discerns all things by the Spirit, not by the fruits. Grow up.

It is called fruits of the Spirit: but you are called to walk in the Spirit, not just to walk by the fruit of the Spirit. The Fruits of the Spirit is like the shadows of a man: judging by the Spirit instead of judging by the Fruits of the Spirit, is like following the man instead of following the shadows of the man. Don't put the cart ahead of the horse.

Follow the Person, the Lord or the Spirit: not the by products. As many as are led by the Spirit are the sons of God.

Again, the best way to know fake naira is by knowing the real or true naira very well.

Stop judging people, churches or organisations in the name of the Lord Jesus by carnal parameters of goodness. There are good motives behind some evil people and there are evil motives behind some good people.

[1 Corinthians 4:3-5] — "I care very little, however, if I am judged by you or by any human court. In fact, I do not even judge myself. My conscience is clear, but that does not vindicate me. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men’s hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God."

PCHC:
Knowing them by their fruits only has limits and can be deceitful.

Are you saying Jesus is not the perfect way to know the truth about God? John 14:6

How can you say what Jesus (God's Son) told us to do can be deceitful?

Guy thanks for your time, goodbye!

MaxInDHouse:
Well the interpretation is simple.

Figure TWO spiritually signify strength in the sense that when one is getting weak the other will give him a backing {Ecclesiastes 4:9} so this refers to the disciples of Jesus who were two groups of sheep {John 10:16} their preaching and teaching in the first century was really effective that they covered the known world of their time.
Their death is what Jesus said at Matthew 13:25 that men were sleeping that's the time Satan's agents overshadowed them and from that time true Christianity disappeared on planet earth {Luke 18:8} until the twentieth century when Jehovah's Witnesses began doing the work again exactly like the first century disciples of Christ! Revelations Revelations 11:11

Errors:

The number two does not spiritually signify strength. No number signifies strength. The reference you cited in Ecclesiastes was only showing how two is better than one, and then how three or threefold cords is better than two.

The reference you cited in "John 10:16" that says the Lord Jesus had other sheep not of this fold; and He would gather them together with these under one fold and one Shepherd, Himself, — The other sheep outside the one fold was not another fold of sheep outside but He was referring to the lost sheep He was yet to find or gather.

The two witnesses in "Revelation 11" were neither "Jehovah's Witnesses" nor referring to Two-Fold Sheep of the early Apostles — Who fed you all these lies and confusion?

The Two Witnesses are the Two Olive Trees standing before the Lord of the whole earth.

[Revelation 11:4] — "These witnesses are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth."

Again in old testament, see the two Witnesses or two Olive Trees in Zechariah:

[Zechariah 4:11-14] — "Then I asked the angel, “What are the two olive trees on the right and left of the lampstand?” And I questioned him further, “What are the two olive branches beside the two gold pipes from which the golden oil pours?” “Do you not know what these are?” he inquired. “No, my lord,” I replied. So he said, “These are the two anointed ones who are standing beside the Lord of all the earth.”"


The death of the two olive trees or two witnesses had nothing to do with the death of Christianity or the sleeping time the enemy planted tares. Infact, that event is yet to happen in future, not a past event. — I am disappointed with this lack of understanding. Their death is just three and half days, following after both how long and where the Lord Jesus Christ was crucified or died in what was figuratively called Sodom and Egypt.

Like I said to you, true Christianity never disappeared or died. And Jehovah's Witnesses are not replacement to Christianity or the Church Movement. Neither do Jehovah's Witnesses represent the rising of the dead to the Christianity you claimed died, like the two witnesses rose from the dead.

By the way, why didn't the Jehovah's Witnesses ascended into heaven like the two witnesses ascended into heaven immediately they rose from the dead? Didn't the same Jehovah's Witnesses deny men can go into heaven, but believe only in paradise on earth?

MaxInDHouse:
Are you saying Jesus is not the perfect way to know the truth about God? John 14:6

How can you say what Jesus (God's Son) told us to do can be deceitful?

Guy thanks for your time, goodbye!

I am saying knowing Jesus the Lord and following the Spirit is the way to know any one or any fruits without being deceived.

MaxInDHouse:
Can you name a religion among all those claiming Christian churches that's actively preaching and teaching like Jehovah's Witnesses? Matthew 28:19-20

No

Not "No" but "Yes" I can name Christian Churches that are actively preaching and teaching, but not necessarily like Jehovah's Witnesses.

JW go door to door knocking, and sharing their Awake and Watchtower messages. I even benefited from one who taught me as a child using "My book of my Bible Stories" in the 1990s.

However, there are Churches that preach and evangelize without door to door, but by sending out Missionaries and sponsoring them, some by television or media evangelism, some by morning cry or early morning town crying, some by preaching in the buses or parts as mobile Evangelists, some by outreaches in schools including secondary schools, programmes, crusades, campus fellowships etc. some by sharing tracts and Bibles like the Gideon Bible outreach, some by public video or cinema projection evangelism showing Christian or Gospel movies especially the crucifixion of Christ, some by acting dramas, some by hospital visitations, some by charity and less privilege ones under their care, some running schools and teaching Christian values and morning devotions during assembly in school or during special school fellowship break time, some by buying and sharing monthly or Daily Christian devotional or journals like Deeper life Women Mirror then or Christ Embassy's Rhasody of Reality the way you JW share Awake or Watchtower for a token etc.

Now, many are evangelizing even by online, websites, social media and forums like this.

So, do not think only the JW do evangelism. [Not to mention the errors in JW teachings].

MaxInDHouse:
Can you mention one church where their members are globally known for love among themselves like Jehovah's Witnesses? John 13:34-35

NO!

Not No, but Yes: yet not necessarily like Jehovah's Witnesses but as the Lord would have love shared amongst them

MaxInDHouse:
Can you mention one church where their members have the same line of thought so that whenever they talk about their teaching people can say "i know the church having that teaching" like Jehovah's Witnesses? John 17:22; Ephesians 4:3

NO!

Not No, but Yes. There are churches their members are known by their doctrines or teachings, by their style or codes of dressing, by their way of prayers, by their discipline or conducts etc.

MaxInDHouse:
So i'm telling you confidently that true Christianity died after the death of first century disciples of Christ {Revelations 11:7} but in the twentieth century rose again as Jehovah's Witnesses {Revelations 11:11} that's why God gave them another group name to distinguish them out of all the false religions claiming Christians:

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES! Isaiah 65:15

If you don't agree it's OK but that's the undeniable truth and reason why you can't mention the name of your own church now!

Your confidence is saying that — true Christianity died with the death of first century Disciples of Christ (alluding to Revelation 11:7) but in about 2000 years later the dead Christianity rose again as Jehovah's Witnesses (as their God's given name) — that confidence is a confidence of one who is wise in his own eyes.

[Proverbs 26:12 FBV] — "Have you seen a man who is wise in his own eyes? There's more hope for stupid people than for him!"

The men who died in [Revelation 11:7] you cited were the same men who rose in [Revelation 11:11] you also cited. How comes Christianity died with the death of the Disciples of Christ about 2000 years earlier, but about 2000 years later those men Christianity died with did not rise from the dead only their Christianity rose again from the dead and God changed its name to Jehovah's Witnesses? Who rose from the dead or from the sleep with the new version of Christianity after 2000 years dead? Was Charles Russell Taze among the earlier Disciples of Christ that died about 2000 years ago but the only one who rose again from the dead 2000 years later with the Christianity now called Jehovah's Witnesses? Or was the group by which the dead Christianity rose again from the dead among those early Disciples? What about the Jehovah's Witnesses' Bible Translation: was their Bible translation dead but rose from the dead alone with them and the same used by those early Christianity?

Your so-called "God's rename" to you as the risen and replacement to Christianity — even the name "Jehovah's Witnesses" is a contradiction to the true Gospel and Reality of the Dispensation of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

It's now about the Lord Jesus Christ the Son of God, not about "Jehovah:" — It's about naming the name of Christ, not naming the name of Jehovah. It's about praying in the name and Person of the Lord Jesus Christ, not in the name of Jehovah. The Church is built on "You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God", not built on "You are Jehovah." It is the revelation of who Christ Jesus the Son is, and there is no other name by which mankind can be saved. It is about every knee bow at the mention of the name of Jesus Christ, and every tongue confess that "JESUS IS JEHOVAH." It's is about those who believe in His name Jesus Christ to be saved, not those who believe in the name "Jehovah."

True "Christians" or "Christianity" bears the name of Christ: You must be baptised on the name of Jesus Christ, not in the name Jehovah. You must be identified, saved, sanctified or justified, all in that name of the Lord Jesus Christ, nothing more and nothing less.

[1 Corinthians 6:11] — "And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."

[1 John 3:23] — "And this is His commandment: that we should believe in the name of His Son, Jesus Christ, and we should love one another just as He commanded us."

We are not "Jehovah's Witnesses:" rather we are "Witnesses of Jesus Christ" having the Testimony of Jesus Christ who is the Centre of true Gospel.

One of the differences between you and us is that as for you, "You are Jehovah's Witnesses;" but as for us "Jehovah is our Witness, while we are Witnesses of the Lord Jesus Christ, having the true Testimony Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit of Christ.