I have often wondered if forgiveness is real.

I am not unmindful of the New Testament injunction that asked that we forgive our offenders 70 x 70 times.

I am also not unmindful of the passage wherein we were admonished to ensure we don’t harbor unforgiveness in our heart when approaching the alter for prayers, thanksgiving and supplications.

Thus bringing me to understand that we must learn to forgive no matter what and regardless of the circumstances cos we are all sinners.

But I do not seem to understand why Apostle Peter was forgiven for denying Jesus Christ three time and Judas Iscariot wasn’t forgiven for leading the mob to arrest Jesus in the garden.

Weren’t they all fulfilling the scriptures as it was foretold?

Why did the Apostle decide not to forgive Judas but replace him.

Do you think was against the teachings on forgiveness?

Kindly educate my ignorance.

Shalom

He killed himself due to guilt shortly after he betrayed Jesus. While Peter also denied Jesus but didn't kill himself.

What's the point in forgiving someone that is already dead? The forgiveness is useless to him

Judas is the greatest disciple of Jesus. Without him Christianity won't exist to celebrate the death of their God!

Without him helping God to kill his son John 3:16 would have been false!

So Christians are urged to name their kids Judas henceforth!

funshint:
He killed himself due to guilt shortly after he betrayed Jesus. While Peter also denied Jesus but didn't kill himself.

How long is shortly? It definitely wasn’t immediately cos I understood he tried returning the money he earned from the deal.

So it definitely wasn’t a matter of hours.

Robinmido:
What's the point in forgiving someone that is already dead? The forgiveness is useless to him

He didn’t die immediately na. Did he?

Okay! Let’s assume I agree with you, what about posthumous forgiveness and reinstatement in a bid to clear his name?

Atleast we dey do am for Nigeria Abi?

He didn't had the chance to meet the disciples so that he can apologize because they all ran away after the arrest. I believe he would have been forgiving but since Thier was nothing like that i believe they have posthumously forgiving him. Talking about clearing his name is another story because i don't know the reason why they're yet to do that

litigator:


He didn’t die immediately na. Did he?

Okay! Let’s assume I agree with you, what about posthumous forgiveness and reinstatement in a bid to clear his name?

Atleast we dey do am for Nigeria Abi?

litigator:


He didn’t die immediately na. Did he?

Okay! Let’s assume I agree with you, what about posthumous forgiveness and reinstatement in a bid to clear his name?

Atleast we dey do am for Nigeria Abi?

Which posthumous forgiveness again? . He was pre-warned by Jesus...“Woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born” (Matthew 26:24). So he chose his destiny!

funshint:

Which posthumous forgiveness again? . He was pre-warned by Jesus...“Woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born” (Matthew 26:24). So he chose his destiny!

But then if he hadn’t,the scriptures won’t be fulfilled. Do you believe in destiny and predestination?

Peter was also warned na. Abi?

litigator:


But then if he hadn’t,the scriptures won’t be fulfilled. Do you believe in destiny and predestination?

Peter was also warned na. Abi?

Another person would have done it anyway. Peter's own was not a warning persay...he was simply told point-blank what he was going to do whether he liked it or not.

litigator:

How long is shortly? It definitely wasn’t immediately cos I understood he tried returning the money he earned from the deal.
So it definitely wasn’t a matter of hours.

Everything happened within few hours after the betrayer. Though his blunder was found in one of Jesus' teachings:

“Therefore, everyone who hears these sayings of mine and does them will be like a discreet man who built his house on the rock. And the rain poured down and the floods came and the winds blew and lashed against that house, but it did not cave in, for it had been founded on the rock. Furthermore, everyone hearing these sayings of mine and not doing them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. And the rain poured down and the floods came and the winds blew and struck against that house, and it caved in, and its collapse was great.” Matthew 7:24-27

Each of Jesus' disciples will experience what Satan did to Jesus (trying to kill his faith in God) but when we stick to Jesus' teachings we will rise again even if we fall seven times {Proverbs 24:16} Judas Iscariot wanted to be rich through what he did {1Timothy 6:7-10} but he miscalculated because Jesus has disappeared in the hands of those murderers several times before then so Judas thought he will still escape and the money will be his for good. It was after seeing that Jesus didn't escape but was killed that he remembered the prophecies regarding how the Christ will be betrayed for 30 pieces of silver coins {Zechariah 11:13} then his eyes was clear!

But he shouldn't have killed himself because Peter also did something similar but got over it later! Luke 22:31-32

Peter was genuinely remorseful and repentant. Judas wasn't. Repentance brings forgiveness

litigator:
..Kindly educate my ignorance.

Shalom

If blaspheming the Holy is unforgivable how is it now murder of the Holy One of God?

litigator:
I have often wondered if forgiveness is real.

I am not unmindful of the New Testament injunction that asked that we forgive our offenders 70 x 70 times.

I am also not unmindful of the passage wherein we were admonished to ensure we don’t harbor unforgiveness in our heart when approaching the alter for prayers, thanksgiving and supplications.

Thus bringing me to understand that we must learn to forgive no matter what and regardless of the circumstances cos we are all sinners.

But I do not seem to understand why Apostle Peter was forgiven for denying Jesus Christ three time and Judas Iscariot wasn’t forgiven for leading the mob to arrest Jesus in the garden.

Weren’t they all fulfilling the scriptures as it was foretold?

Why did the Apostle decide not to forgive Judas but replace him.

Do you think was against the teachings on forgiveness?

Kindly educate my ignorance.

Shalom

Forgiven by who? Jesus prayed for everyone to be forgiven, didn't He?

Image123:


Forgiven by who? Jesus prayed for everyone to be forgiven, didn't He?

And this prayer did not reach nor cover Judas, remember He said "it is better that man was not born than for him to betray Him".

And besides, Judas was already dead before this prayer was made.

litigator:
■I have often wondered if forgiveness is real. I am not unmindful of the New Testament injunction that asked that we forgive our offenders 70 x 70 times. I am also not unmindful of the passage wherein we were admonished to ensure we don’t harbor unforgiveness in our heart when approaching the alter for prayers, thanksgiving and supplications. Thus bringing me to understand that we must learn to forgive no matter what and regardless of the circumstances cos we are all sinners.

■But I do not seem to understand why Apostle Peter was forgiven for denying Jesus Christ three time and Judas Iscariot wasn’t forgiven for leading the mob to arrest Jesus in the garden. Weren’t they all fulfilling the scriptures as it was foretold? Why did the Apostle decide not to forgive Judas but replace him. Do you think was against the teachings on forgiveness? Kindly educate my ignorance. Shalom

1.

2. What did Peter do in order to be forgiven of his sins? Jesus Christ gave both men His Law and instructed them both to obey His commandments in order to receive that which is promised by God, forgiveness included. Since Peter was forgiven his sins, it follows that Peter did as Jesus Christ commanded of him but Judas did not, so what was it?

litigator:
How long is shortly? It definitely wasn’t immediately cos I understood he tried returning the money he earned from the deal.
So it definitely wasn’t a matter of hours.

Judas was missing from the wrap-up of the story beginning right from right before Jesus Christ was hung up on the cross.

litigator:
He didn’t die immediately na. Did he?
Okay! Let’s assume I agree with you, what about posthumous forgiveness and reinstatement in a bid to clear his name?
At least we dey do am for Nigeria Abi?

To what end? For whose sake?

ChocolateWine:
Peter was genuinely remorseful and repentant. Judas wasn't. Repentance brings forgiveness

Wrong! There are rules that govern forgiveness. https://www.nairaland.com/7110397/gospel-minddump/2#119778139

Consider for instance that Judas, to have wanted to have Jesus Christ handed over to the priests, had ought against Him— I don't send someone I love into harm's way—, Jesus Christ, and in order to receive forgiveness from God - Matthew 6 vs 6 - 15 -, you have to first forgive others. Did Judas first forgive Jesus Christ?

Kobojunkie:
1.

2. What did Peter do in order to be forgiven of his sins? Jesus Christ gave both men His Law and instructed them both to obey His commandments in order to receive that which is promised by God, forgiveness included. Since Peter was forgiven his sins, it follows that Peter did as Jesus Christ commanded of him but Judas did not, so what was it?

Are you saying that for one to forgive, another must acknowledge his/her sins and show repentance?

Like we do when we sin against God?

Kindly educate my ignorance

litigator:
■Are you saying that for one to forgive, another must acknowledge his/her sins and show repentance?
Like we do when we don against God? Kindly educate my ignorance

1. Nope!

■Peter acknowledged his own faults and went to Jesus Christ(a man) to seek forgiveness for what he, Peter, had done to Jesus Christ. Only then did the Father, not Jesus Christ, forgive Peter— Jesus Christ is not the one who forgives us our sins, the Father is. And according to the father, if you want forgiveness for your sins, you have to seek forgiveness from those who you have sinned against.

■So, Judas obviously had something against Jesus Christ since he, judas, has sold Jesus Christ out to the priests. There is no record that Judas ever went back to ask Jesus Christ(the man) to forgive him for his wickedness, probably because he, Judas, did not desire forgiveness from the Father.

Kobojunkie:
1. Nope!

Peter acknowledged his own faults and went to Jesus Christ(a man) to seek forgiveness for what he, Peter, had done to Jesus Christ. Only then did the Father, not Jesus Christ, forgive Peter— Jesus Christ is not the one who forgives us our sins, the Father is. And according to the father, if you want forgiveness for your sins, you have to seek forgiveness from those who you have sinned against.

So, Judas who obviously had something against Jesus Christ since he, judas sold him out to the priests, never went back to ask Jesus Christ(the man) to forgive him for his wickedness, probably because he, Judas, did not desire forgiveness from the Father.

Why say Nope while you are clearly saying yes? I am confused.

litigator:
Why say Nope while you are clearly saying yes? I am confused.

Clearly, saying yes to what? I didn't understand what you wrote there, I guess. And no, you don't show repentance — action is key— and that action has to come in the form of obedience to the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ. So, when Peter approached Jesus Christ, what Jesus Christ gave Peter were commandments urging Him to continue to obey the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ — forgiveness is obtained by way of obedience to the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ.

Dtruthspeaker:


And this prayer did not reach nor cover Judas, remember He said "it is better that man was not born than for him to betray Him".

And besides, Judas was already dead before this prayer was made.

Jesus Christ forgave everyone including Judas. He had to forgive everyone as a man and as our sinless example. The point made was in the forgiveness, not in reach/cover/answer of prayers. Do you think Jesus Christ had any grudges against anyone on the cross?

litigator:
I have often wondered if forgiveness is real.

I am not unmindful of the New Testament injunction that asked that we forgive our offenders 70 x 70 times.

I am also not unmindful of the passage wherein we were admonished to ensure we don’t harbor unforgiveness in our heart when approaching the alter for prayers, thanksgiving and supplications.

Thus bringing me to understand that we must learn to forgive no matter what and regardless of the circumstances cos we are all sinners.

But I do not seem to understand why Apostle Peter was forgiven for denying Jesus Christ three time and Judas Iscariot wasn’t forgiven for leading the mob to arrest Jesus in the garden.

Weren’t they all fulfilling the scriptures as it was foretold?

Why did the Apostle decide not to forgive Judas but replace him.

Do you think was against the teachings on forgiveness?

Kindly educate my ignorance.

Shalom

He never asked for it

Kobojunkie:
Wrong! There are rules that govern forgiveness. https://www.nairaland.com/7110397/gospel-minddump/2#119778139

Consider for instance that Judas, to have wanted to have Jesus Christ handed over to the priests, had ought against Him— I don't send someone I love into harm's way—, Jesus Christ, and in order to receive forgiveness from God - Matthew 6 vs 6 - 15 -, you have to first forgive others. Did Judas first forgive Jesus Christ?

You're a junkie of koboless value

ChocolateWine:

You're a junkie of koboless value

Look who's talking!

vvvbobby205:


He never asked for it

Must we always ask for it?

Forgiveness?

Thought there is concept known as advance forgiveness

litigator:
Must we always ask for it? Forgiveness? Thought there is concept known as advance forgiveness

Recall the parable Jesus Christ told of the Pharisee and the Tax collector aka sinner. The Tax collector went to ask God for forgiveness in obedience to God's very own decree in His Law, as Jesus Christ explained there in that context to you.

9 He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt:
10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.
11 The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector.
12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’
13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.” - Luke 18 vs 9 - 14

A. The Pharisee foolishly assumed that his vain religious acts would earn him God's forgiveness of his sins and so he didn't even bother asking God for the forgiveness of his sins.
B. The tax collector, on the other hand, did as God commanded. He, in obedience to God's commandment, asked God for the forgiveness of his sins. He humbled himself that is in obedience to God's law and decrees, in that simplest request which He made to God.

And as Jesus Christ explained in verse 14, those who humble themselves - obey the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ - will be exalted. Obedience is the overarching mandate as far as the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ to us all and no one is exempt. So whether seeking forgiveness, attempting to repent from one's old ways, or even seeking to have one's needs and desires met — these things don't come down from the Father automagically to anyone — it all comes down to obedience of God's Law as given by Jesus Christ.

Kobojunkie:
Recall the parable Jesus Christ told of the Pharisee and the Tax collector aka sinner. The Tax collector went to ask God for forgiveness in obedience to God's very own decree in His Law, as Jesus Christ explained there in that context to you.
A. The Pharisee foolishly assumed that his vain religious acts would earn him God's forgiveness of his sins and so he didn't even bother asking God for the forgiveness of his sins.
B. The tax collector, on the other hand, did as God commanded. He, in obedience to God's commandment, asked God for the forgiveness of his sins. He humbled himself that is in obedience to God's law and decrees, in that simplest request which He made to God.

And as Jesus Christ explained in verse 14, those who humble themselves - obey the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ - will be exalted. Obedience is the overarching mandate as far as the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ to us all and no one is exempt. So whether seeking forgiveness, attempting to repent from one's old ways, or even seeking to have one's needs and desires met — these things don't come down from the Father automagically to anyone — it all comes down to obedience of God's Law as given by Jesus Christ.

We are considering this meal before us from different perspectives.

You are looking at the angle of genuine repentance, obedience and emotional management. Perhaps via the binoculars of human behavioural psychology.

How about we take a second bite via the binoculars of predestination, destiny and destination?

If we agree in principles on the construct that predestination results in how each of us thinks, act and eventually turns out.

To wit: We don't have control over our behaviour and decisions because we have been predestined beforehand to function and act in such a manner or way. Don't you think this should ordinarily be a ground for advance forgiveness?

I wish to believe the concept of forgiveness in advance ( advance forgiveness) was propounded by Bishop David Oyedepo. There are some of Sam Adeyemi’s materials on predestination and destiny for reference purposes.

Ref Biblical text: Jeremiah 1, Ephesians 8, John 15, 1st Peter 1, Proverbs 16.

litigator:
■We are considering this meal before us from different perspective. You are looking at the angle of genuine repentance, obedience and emotional management. Perhaps via the binoculars of human behavioral psychology.
■How about we take a second bite via the binoculars of predestination, destiny and destination? If we agree in principles on the construct that predestination is result in our each of us think, act and eventually turn out, then you think this should ordinarily be a ground for advance forgiveness.
■I wish to believe the concept of forgiveness in advance ( advance forgiveness) was propounded by Bishop David Oyedepo. There are also some of Sam Adeyemi’s materials on predestination and destiny for reference purposes.
■Ref Biblical text: Jeremiah 1, Ephesians 8 , John 15, 1st Peter 1, Proverbs 16.

1. I am simply looking at it from the point of the Law — God's New Covenant/agreement in the Kingdom of God, Jesus Christ— which was given by Jesus Christ to all, including the 12. He, Jesus Christ, commanded all of His followers to obey His teachings and commandments, and these teachings provided us with details of the rules we are to live by every moment we have in the Kingdom of God. That is the standard by which we will all be judged as followers of Jesus Christ.

2. I have no clue what your principles on the construct of predestination are about, or how to judge matters by it since none of it is defined in scripture, to begin with. Destiny, predestination, in the Kingdom of God, the destiny for all followers of Jesus Christ is the same and that is for us to become like Jesus Christ, doing the work He did and more. That is the one and only goal for all who are called by Jesus Christ.

3. Again, these ideas are non-scriptural and so cannot be applied.

4. Can you please be more specific about what it is I need to be paying attention to as far as the references you list? My guess is, from Jeremiah 1, your focus is on what God said to Jeremiah about his birth. Is this correct?

4 The Lord’s message came to me:
5 “Before I made you in your mother’s womb, I knew you. Before you were born, I chose you for a special work. I chose you to be a prophet to the nations.”
6 Then I said, “But, Lord God, I don’t know how to speak. I am only a boy.”
7 But the Lord said to me, “Don’t say, ‘I am only a boy.’ You must go everywhere I send you and say everything I tell you to say.
8 Don’t be afraid of anyone. I am with you, and I will protect you.”
9 Then the Lord reached out with his hand and touched my mouth. He said to me,“Jeremiah, I am putting my words in your mouth.
10 Today I have put you in charge of nations and kingdoms. You will pull up and tear down. You will destroy and overthrow. You will build up and plant.” - Jeremiah 1 vs 4 - 10

God may have told Jeremiah to be a prophet but as you can see, God also gave Jeremiah a mandate and that mandate was obedience. Jeremiah could have chosen to disobey God the same as Adam did.

Kobojunkie:
1. I am simply looking at it from the point of the Law — God's New Covenant/agreement in the Kingdom of God, Jesus Christ— which was given by Jesus Christ to all, including the 12. He, Jesus Christ, commanded all of His followers to obey His teachings and commandments, and these teachings provided us with details of the rules we are to live by every moment we have in the Kingdom of God. That is the standard by which we will all be judged as followers of Jesus Christ.

2. I have no clue what your principles on the construct of predestination are about, or how to judge matters by it since none of it is defined in scripture, to begin with. Destiny, predestination, in the Kingdom of God, the destiny for all followers of Jesus Christ is the same and that is for us to become like Jesus Christ, doing the work He did and more. That is the one and only goal for all who are called by Jesus Christ.

3. Again, these ideas are non-scriptural and so cannot be applied.

4. Can you please be more specific about what it is I need to be paying attention to as far as the references you list? My guess is, from Jeremiah 1, your focus is on what God said to Jeremiah about his birth. Is this correct?
God may have told Jeremiah to be a prophet but as you can see, God also gave Jeremiah a mandate and that mandate was obedience. Jeremiah could have chosen to disobey God the same as Adam did.

SMH… you must be a spokesperson or a PR manager.