₦airaland Forum

TenQ:
Unfortunately, in reality many EVIL people die peacefully and at old age without experiencing any judgement here on earth. Or you think ever murderer die violent deaths? A man who gruesomely kills 70 people can at best die ONCE! So, where is the islamic justice here on earth?. Moreover, using my analogy of the Rapist, what could have been an equatable justice for him here on earth? You see that islamic theology breaks down irrevocably here!





You keep on repeating scriptures you don't understand.
Does this scripture mean that since everyone is a sinner, ALL will go to hell for eternity?
An by the way, Jesus can be a substitute for us only because He is not a human like us.


So, what concerns Christians and Jews with Allah removing Muslims from Hell? Why will Allah REPLACE you with us?
The hadith is so plane but you have to explain it away because it is incredibly stupid.



Are you confirming that the Qur'an 6:164 contradict the hadith of your prophet where Christians and Jews are used as ransom for you Muslims?

In Christianity according to the Scripture:
1. All are guilty of Sin
2. The consequence of Sin is ETERNITY in Hell
3. God is JUST and MUST therefore punish Sin
4. But God so much LOVE us to provide a SOLUTION for us because God's justice must be served
5. In God's wisdom, he provided a RANSOM for us as an EXCHANGE for our Punishment.
6. This RANSOM is the LAMB of God that takes away our punishment for Sin



If Allah forgives by a Fiat, there is NO Justice.

You still haven't answered the question!
Who pays for the crime of Rape by this man when he becomes a repentant Muslim?



If your understanding is okay, what you are saying is that
you are guilty of sin and therefore you are to spend your eternity in Hell, with no redemption. Would this be okay for you as you must bear your own sin upon yourself?

Second, is Jesus a human being like you and me according to the Bible? Then Ezekiel 18:20 is unbroken!
Sorry!

You say that Islam overlooks sin, but that couldn’t be further from the truth. In Islam, every crime is acknowledged, every action is accounted for, and no injustice goes unpunished. The Qur’an clearly states: “Whoever does an atom’s weight of good will see it, and whoever does an atom’s weight of evil will see it” (99:7–. Even if a murderer passes away peacefully in his sleep, he will still have to face every one of his victims on the Day of Judgment. The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) emphasized that rights will be restored to their rightful owners on the Day of Resurrection, to the point where even a sheep without horns will receive justice from one that has them. Nothing is overlooked, no victim is forgotten, and no wrong is dismissed.

In Islam, repentance isn’t just a way to escape consequences. If a man repents after committing a heinous act like rape, turning to God doesn’t erase the rights of the woman or her children. They will still confront him before Allah. This is where the distinction lies. Islam insists on accountability, while Christianity suggests that the guilty can walk free because the innocent Jesus supposedly takes on their sins. You might say that he was of the world, but Jesus transformed him when he surrendered to him. However, true justice means that the criminal must face the consequences of his actions.

Let’s not kid ourselves into thinking that only Muslims commit sins. There are plenty of rapists who identify as Christians. We’ve seen priests, pastors, and clergy exposed for their crimes all over the globe. So, to claim that Islam is the only faith that “forgives” rapists is simply misleading. The real question is which faith holds the rapist accountable for his actions, and which one shifts the blame onto someone else?

You brought up the hadith regarding Jews and Christians being a “ransom.” However, the Qur’an is definitive, stating: “No soul bears the burden of another” (6:164). This hadith can’t be taken literally; it signifies that Allah forgives believers while punishing those who reject Him for their own sins. In contrast, Christianity contradicts Ezekiel 18:20 by placing humanity’s guilt on the sinless Jesus.

Here’s the bottom line: in Islam, if a man commits rape, he faces the consequences on this earth if justice is served, and in the Hereafter without any escape.

You want to make your usual excuse based on hadith you don't understand. Perhaps translation and culture challenge yet you know the Qur'an comes first before the Hadith. You have tried in vain to say words of Muhammad pbuh are disobyed yet fail to agree his actual meaning is not understood. Maybe you should provide a verse in the Quran saying the hadith is to be obeyed over the words of Allah.

Let's take a closer look at the concepts of sin and redemption. In Christianity, there's this idea that one can repent, but ultimately, the guilt is transferred to Jesus. So, which belief system truly respects the victim? And which one downplays the seriousness of sin?

When Christians respond, they often say, “Jesus was different from us; that’s why He could bear our sins.” But the Bible repeatedly refers to Him as a man: “Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders” (Acts 2:22). He experienced hunger, thirst, sleep, and prayer. If He wasn’t fully human, then His sacrifice wouldn’t truly represent humanity.

Now, if we say He was also God, we run into a major contradiction. God can’t experience hunger, thirst, suffering, or death. If Jesus died, then according to this logic, God died too which is impossible. If He didn’t die, then the supposed ransom never happened. Either way, this doctrine falls apart.

The Qur’an provides a clear perspective on this: “The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a messenger; messengers passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They both used to eat food” (5:75). This dependence on food highlights humanity. Anyone who eats relies on God; and anyone who relies on something cannot be God.

So, we’re left with two possibilities: either Jesus was fully human, which means Ezekiel 18:20 still holds true. “The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father” or He wasn’t truly human, in which case His sacrifice loses its meaning as a substitute. Christianity can’t sidestep this contradiction. In contrast, Islam provides clarity: Jesus was a prophet, revered and miraculously born, but never God.

The idea that mortal beings can die and then become gods is rooted in ancient mythology. Take Hercules, for example—he endured suffering, met his end, and was then elevated to Olympus. Similarly, Pharaohs were often proclaimed divine after they passed away. Christianity mirrors this concept by asserting that Jesus, a man who experienced life just like us eating, sleeping, praying, and ultimately dying (though I stand that this hasn't occured yet) is also God.

In contrast, Islam completely dismisses this notion. The Qur’an states: “There is nothing like unto Him” (42:11). God doesn’t experience hunger, sleep, or death. He is eternal and self-sufficient. While Christianity seems to echo a mythological cycle, Islam upholds the essence of pure monotheism: God is entirely unique, free from human frailties, and never part of creation.

honesttalk21:
The idea that mortal beings can die and then become gods is rooted in ancient mythology. Take Hercules, for example—he endured suffering, met his end, and was then elevated to Olympus. Similarly, Pharaohs were often proclaimed divine after they passed away. Christianity mirrors this concept by asserting that Jesus, a man who experienced life just like us eating, sleeping, praying, and ultimately dying (though I stand that this hasn't occured yet) is also God.

Is this not another strawman argument?
Which ever Christian cult says Jesus became God after He died and resurrected?

God became Human had always been the teaching of the Bible Mr man! Did you ever read anywhere that a man became God to the Christians?

honesttalk21:
In contrast, Islam completely dismisses this notion. The Qur’an states: “There is nothing like unto Him” (42:11). God doesn’t experience hunger, sleep, or death. He is eternal and self-sufficient. While Christianity seems to echo a mythological cycle, Islam upholds the essence of pure monotheism: God is entirely unique, free from human frailties, and never part of creation.

So many things are like Allah eg Iblis
1. Allah is a subset of the Universe just as Iblis is a subset of the universe.
Is Allah not just above the seven heavens which is above the seven earth's?
2. Allah is one just like Iblis Iblis is one
How many Iblis do you know in the Universe?
3. Allah cannot do many things just like Iblis.
Can Allah enter into his creation and remain almighty?


You are confusing the fact that NOTHING is impossible for my God. Even Angels don't need to eat but they can eat if they choose to do so!
Can Allah eat if he chooses to or not?
How can a God be Almighty when he has so many LIMITATIONS?

honesttalk21:
You say that Islam overlooks sin, but that couldn’t be further from the truth. In Islam, every crime is acknowledged, every action is accounted for, and no injustice goes unpunished. The Qur’an clearly states: “Whoever does an atom’s weight of good will see it, and whoever does an atom’s weight of evil will see it” (99:7–. Even if a murderer passes away peacefully in his sleep, he will still have to face every one of his victims on the Day of Judgment. The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) emphasized that rights will be restored to their rightful owners on the Day of Resurrection, to the point where even a sheep without horns will receive justice from one that has them. Nothing is overlooked, no victim is forgotten, and no wrong is dismissed.

What you claim is usually different from what your prophet teaches about Islam

Sahih Muslim 94 b
Abu Dharr reported,:
I came to the Apostle (may peace be upon him ) and he was asleep with a white mantle over him. I again came, he was still asleep, I came again and he had awakened. I sat by his side and (the Holy Prophet) observed: There is none among the bondsmen who affirmed his faith in La illaha ill-Allah there is no God but Allah) and died in this state and did not enter Paradise. I (Abu Dharr) said: Even if he committed adultery and theft? He (the Holy Prophet) replied: (Yes) even though he committed adultery and theft. I (again said): Even if he committed adultery and theft? He replied: (Yes) even though he committed adultery and theft. (Th Holy Prophet repeated it three times) and said for the fourth time: In defiance of Abu Dharr. Abu Dharr then went out and he repeated (these words): In defiance of Abu Dharr.

So, tell me how Abacha will restore all the money he had stolen from Nigeria?
Tell me how a man will pay for the Adultery he had committed with his friend's Wife?

I am waiting for you to distort the hadith above again

honesttalk21:
In Islam, repentance isn’t just a way to escape consequences. If a man repents after committing a heinous act like rape, turning to God doesn’t erase the rights of the woman or her children. They will still confront him before Allah. This is where the distinction lies. Islam insists on accountability, while Christianity suggests that the guilty can walk free because the innocent Jesus supposedly takes on their sins. You might say that he was of the world, but Jesus transformed him when he surrendered to him. However, true justice means that the criminal must face the consequences of his actions.

So, the Rapist repents and recites La illah illa lah three times then becomes a Muslim.
If I understand you well, Allah will admit this man into Paradise BUT according to you, the Raped Woman and her Children will confront this man!

So what? What will come out of the confrontation?
You forget that Adultery and Theft are primarily sins against God before being an offence against man? What if the Woman and her children are infidels? What reward will they gain from this repentant wicked man?

See how your theology breaks down with thinking!

honesttalk21:
Let’s not kid ourselves into thinking that only Muslims commit sins. There are plenty of rapists who identify as Christians. We’ve seen priests, pastors, and clergy exposed for their crimes all over the globe. So, to claim that Islam is the only faith that “forgives” rapists is simply misleading. The real question is which faith holds the rapist accountable for his actions, and which one shifts the blame onto someone else?

I never implied that only Muslims sin. I was just helping you to see how Allah judges sin by using a Muslim as an example.
All humans including me are sinners and ALL are going to Hell because of it. The difference between you and me is that I submitted myself to the One who Paid Off my Debt of Punishment in Hell and you hope to pay yours off with good deeds and Islam.

honesttalk21:
You brought up the hadith regarding Jews and Christians being a “ransom.” However, the Qur’an is definitive, stating: “No soul bears the burden of another” (6:164). This hadith can’t be taken literally; it signifies that Allah forgives believers while punishing those who reject Him for their own sins. In contrast, Christianity contradicts Ezekiel 18:20 by placing humanity’s guilt on the sinless Jesus.

Are you saying that the Qur'an contradict this hadith of your prophet?

honesttalk21:
Here’s the bottom line: in Islam, if a man commits rape, he faces the consequences on this earth if justice is served, and in the Hereafter without any escape.

Is it every crime that is punished on earth?
How would this Rapist be equitably punished for destroying a Woman and the lives of her four children?

honesttalk21:
You want to make your usual excuse based on hadith you don't understand. Perhaps translation and culture challenge yet you know the Qur'an comes first before the Hadith. You have tried in vain to say words of Muhammad pbuh are disobyed yet fail to agree his actual meaning is not understood. Maybe you should provide a verse in the Quran saying the hadith is to be obeyed over the words of Allah.

The Qur'an say Muslim men should do Mutah
The Hadith say it is cancelled
What do you follow?

Spare me that.

honesttalk21:
Let's take a closer look at the concepts of sin and redemption. In Christianity, there's this idea that one can repent, but ultimately, the guilt is transferred to Jesus. So, which belief system truly respects the victim? And which one downplays the seriousness of sin?

In Christianity, the penalty for sin against my neighbour is ETERNITY in Hell period!
And Justice has been Served.

What else?

The difference is that the Judge who executed my sentence is the one who also paid for the consequences for me.

In Islam Adultery and Theft are waived off by Allah!

honesttalk21:
When Christians respond, they often say, “Jesus was different from us; that’s why He could bear our sins.” But the Bible repeatedly refers to Him as a man: “Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders” (Acts 2:22). He experienced hunger, thirst, sleep, and prayer. If He wasn’t fully human, then His sacrifice wouldn’t truly represent humanity.

When Jibril came to Mary, didn't he come as a perfect man? Did that stop him from being an Angel?
It seems you don't know that A perfect man is indistinguishable from other humans.

honesttalk21:
Now, if we say He was also God, we run into a major contradiction. God can’t experience hunger, thirst, suffering, or death. If Jesus died, then according to this logic, God died too which is impossible. If He didn’t die, then the supposed ransom never happened. Either way, this doctrine falls apart.

When Muslims argue they put their brains is comatose mode.
Is death a kind of annihilation or a transition to a non physical realm in Islam?
If Moses and Joseph and Adam etc are dead, does it mean your prophet was conjuring fake stories about them. How come they are dead but not dead at the same time? SMH!!

You said:
Now, if we say He was also God, we run into a major contradiction

So, when Jibril came as a perfect man, his taste buds were not working, he did not have an intestine nor stomach. His cells were dead abi?

If God came down as aan, couldn't He experience everything men experience if He chose to?

honesttalk21:
The Qur’an provides a clear perspective on this: “The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a messenger; messengers passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They both used to eat food” (5:75). This dependence on food highlights humanity. Anyone who eats relies on God; and anyone who relies on something cannot be God.

So, we’re left with two possibilities: either Jesus was fully human, which means Ezekiel 18:20 still holds true. “The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father” or He wasn’t truly human, in which case His sacrifice loses its meaning as a substitute. Christianity can’t sidestep this contradiction. In contrast, Islam provides clarity: Jesus was a prophet, revered and miraculously born, but never God.

Only the True God can be Somewhere and Everywhere at the same Time without contradicting His Almightiness

Only the True God can be Unlimited and Limited at the same Time without contradicting His Almightiness

Only the True God can be Spirit and Physical at the same Time without contradicting His Almightiness

Only the True God can be ANYTHING without contradicting His Almightiness



The Almighty God came as a man because through Man sin entered the world. Angels cannot substitute for man because Angels are NOT infinite.

The only One who's INFINITY can atone for the invite incarnation of man in Hell is God Himself.


Allah doesn't love you this much to do the unthinkable for you: after all, you are just his slave

Not so with YHWH,
He LOVES Humanity so much that without violating His JUSTICE, He could Free men from the Consequences of Violating His INTEGRITY as God.

This is why the Message is called GOOD NEWS: the price for your Redemption has been paid by God Himself.

Reject it at your Peril!

TenQ:
What you claim is usually different from what your prophet teaches about Islam

Sahih Muslim 94 b
Abu Dharr reported,:
I came to the Apostle (may peace be upon him ) and he was asleep with a white mantle over him. I again came, he was still asleep, I came again and he had awakened. I sat by his side and (the Holy Prophet) observed: There is none among the bondsmen who affirmed his faith in La illaha ill-Allah there is no God but Allah) and died in this state and did not enter Paradise. I (Abu Dharr) said: Even if he committed adultery and theft? He (the Holy Prophet) replied: (Yes) even though he committed adultery and theft. I (again said): Even if he committed adultery and theft? He replied: (Yes) even though he committed adultery and theft. (Th Holy Prophet repeated it three times) and said for the fourth time: In defiance of Abu Dharr. Abu Dharr then went out and he repeated (these words): In defiance of Abu Dharr.

So, tell me how Abacha will restore all the money he had stolen from Nigeria?
Tell me how a man will pay for the Adultery he had committed with his friend's Wife?

I am waiting for you to distort the hadith above again


So, the Rapist repents and recites La illah illa lah three times then becomes a Muslim.
If I understand you well, Allah will admit this man into Paradise BUT according to you, the Raped Woman and her Children will confront this man!

So what? What will come out of the confrontation?
You forget that Adultery and Theft are primarily sins against God before being an offence against man? What if the Woman and her children are infidels? What reward will they gain from this repentant wicked man?

See how your theology breaks down with thinking!



I never implied that only Muslims sin. I was just helping you to see how Allah judges sin by using a Muslim as an example.
All humans including me are sinners and ALL are going to Hell because of it. The difference between you and me is that I submitted myself to the One who Paid Off my Debt of Punishment in Hell and you hope to pay yours off with good deeds and Islam.


Are you saying that the Qur'an contradict this hadith of your prophet?


Is it every crime that is punished on earth?
How would this Rapist be equitably punished for destroying a Woman and the lives of her four children?


The Qur'an say Muslim men should do Mutah
The Hadith say it is cancelled
What do you follow?

Spare me that.


In Christianity, the penalty for sin against my neighbour is ETERNITY in Hell period!
And Justice has been Served.

What else?

The difference is that the Judge who executed my sentence is the one who also paid for the consequences for me.

In Islam Adultery and Theft are waived off by Allah!




When Jibril came to Mary, didn't he come as a perfect man? Did that stop him from being an Angel?
It seems you don't know that A perfect man is indistinguishable from other humans.


When Muslims argue they put their brains is comatose mode.
Is death a kind of annihilation or a transition to a non physical realm in Islam?
If Moses and Joseph and Adam etc are dead, does it mean your prophet was conjuring fake stories about them. How come they are dead but not dead at the same time? SMH!!

You said:
Now, if we say He was also God, we run into a major contradiction

So, when Jibril came as a perfect man, his taste buds were not working, he did not have an intestine nor stomach. His cells were dead abi?

If God came down as aan, couldn't He experience everything men experience if He chose to?



Only the True God can be Somewhere and Everywhere at the same Time without contradicting His Almightiness

Only the True God can be Unlimited and Limited at the same Time without contradicting His Almightiness

Only the True God can be Spirit and Physical at the same Time without contradicting His Almightiness

Only the True God can be ANYTHING without contradicting His Almightiness



The Almighty God came as a man because through Man sin entered the world. Angels cannot substitute for man because Angels are NOT infinite.

The only One who's INFINITY can atone for the invite incarnation of man in Hell is God Himself.


Allah doesn't love you this much to do the unthinkable for you: after all, you are just his slave

Not so with YHWH,
He LOVES Humanity so much that without violating His JUSTICE, He could Free men from the Consequences of Violating His INTEGRITY as God.

This is why the Message is called GOOD NEWS: the price for your Redemption has been paid by God Himself.

Reject it at your Peril!

I doubt you have any clear understanding of what is real and true, what you feel or prefer to be true.

In Islam, Allah stands apart from creation and isn't limited like Iblis. Drawing a comparison between the Creator and a creature is simply not accurate. Allah exists beyond space, time, and form. He isn't just above the heavens as if He were confined to a specific location; rather, He is the One who brought everything into existence. Unlike Iblis, who is trapped within the universe, Allah sustains it and exists beyond it. When it comes to the question of whether Allah can eat, that notion suggests a kind of weakness and need, which is not applicable to God. Eating and relying on food indicate being created, not divine. A true Almighty God wouldn’t contradict Himself by exhibiting weakness.

The hadith of Abu Dharr doesn’t imply that theft and adultery are overlooked. Islam distinguishes between sins against God and those against people. Allah may forgive His own rights through repentance, but offenses against others must be addressed. The Prophet taught that on Judgment Day, victims will receive the good deeds of their oppressors, and if those deeds run out, the oppressor will take on the victims’ sins before facing Hell. This means that no criminal simply escapes justice by uttering a phrase; real justice is upheld among people, and Allah ensures that no wrongdoing goes unpunished.

In contrast, Christianity presents the innocent Jesus as bearing the sins of the guilty, which the Bible itself prohibits in Ezekiel 18:20. If Jesus was merely a man, he couldn’t carry the sins of others. If he was God, then the idea becomes impossible; how could God experience hunger, weakness, or death? The Bible refers to Jesus as a man attested by God (Acts 2:22), indicating he was human and reliant on God, not divine. Islam provides a clearer perspective. Jesus was a prophet and Messiah, revered by Allah, but never God Himself.

Islamic theology maintains a balance of justice and mercy. While some criminals may evade punishment in this life, the Qur’an teaches that every wrongdoer will ultimately confront Allah in the Hereafter, where no injustice is ignored. Victims receive direct compensation, and oppressors face the repercussions of their actions.

The Christian notion that some people deserve endless punishment, only to have their guilt shifted onto an innocent person, really undermines both justice and the perfection of God. In Islam, there’s a sense of balance; every individual is responsible for their own actions, and every victim will receive their due. That’s what true justice looks like.

Which is more just having the guilty confront their victims before God, or transferring guilt to an innocent person while the real oppressor goes unpunished?

honesttalk21:
I doubt you have any clear understanding of what is real and true, what you feel or prefer to be true.

In Islam, Allah stands apart from creation and isn't limited like Iblis. Drawing a comparison between the Creator and a creature is simply not accurate. Allah exists beyond space, time, and form. He isn't just above the heavens as if He were confined to a specific location; rather, He is the One who brought everything into existence. Unlike Iblis, who is trapped within the universe, Allah sustains it and exists beyond it. When it comes to the question of whether Allah can eat, that notion suggests a kind of weakness and need, which is not applicable to God. Eating and relying on food indicate being created, not divine. A true Almighty God wouldn’t contradict Himself by exhibiting weakness.

You are repeating narratives but I am giving you facts of similarities between Allah and Iblis. All you needed to do is to falsify them.

Again:
So many things are like Allah eg Iblis
1. Allah is a subset of the Universe just as Iblis is a subset of the universe.
Is Allah not just above the seven heavens which is above the seven earth's?
2. Allah is one just like Iblis Iblis is one
How many Iblis do you know in the Universe?
3. Allah cannot do many things just like Iblis.
Can Allah enter into his creation and remain almighty?

The only logical way that Allah is not a subset of the universe is if he is the Universal SET i.e. the universe is within him and not that he is above the universe.

In the course of reinventing Allah, your scholars unknowingly boxed him into a corner.

honesttalk21:
The hadith of Abu Dharr doesn’t imply that theft and adultery are overlooked. Islam distinguishes between sins against God and those against people. Allah may forgive His own rights through repentance, but offenses against others must be addressed. The Prophet taught that on Judgment Day, victims will receive the good deeds of their oppressors, and if those deeds run out, the oppressor will take on the victims’ sins before facing Hell. This means that no criminal simply escapes justice by uttering a phrase; real justice is upheld among people, and Allah ensures that no wrongdoing goes unpunished.

See how you distinguished between sin against God and Sin against people!? This is wrong for everyone sin against man is sin against God BECAUSE man was created in the image of God.

Here is Allah copying Jesus
1. Hadith 18, 40 Hadith Qudsi
On the authority of Abu Hurayrah
2. Mishkat al-Masabih 1528
On the authority of Abu Huraira
3. Sahih Muslim 2569

A victim is a polytheist, what recompense would he receive from the good deeds of his oppressor if the oppressor is a Muslim that means anything?
Example:
Will Allah reduce the numbers of your Houri and give it to the wronged polytheist in hell?

Islam always breaks down with reasoning!

honesttalk21:
In contrast, Christianity presents the innocent Jesus as bearing the sins of the guilty, which the Bible itself prohibits in Ezekiel 18:20. If Jesus was merely a man, he couldn’t carry the sins of others. If he was God, then the idea becomes impossible; how could God experience hunger, weakness, or death? The Bible refers to Jesus as a man attested by God (Acts 2:22), indicating he was human and reliant on God, not divine. Islam provides a clearer perspective. Jesus was a prophet and Messiah, revered by Allah, but never God Himself.

You are just repeating yourself misrepresenting Ezek 18: based on the limitations of Allah.
Only the True God can be Somewhere and Everywhere at the same Time without contradicting His Almightiness

*Can Allah be Unlimited and Limited at the same Time without contradicting His Almightiness
*Can Allah be Spirit and Physical at the same Time without contradicting His Almightiness
*Can Allah be ANYTHING without contradicting His Almightiness

If Allah cannot, it is an error to impose your understanding of the limitations of Allah on YHWH.

honesttalk21:
Islamic theology maintains a balance of justice and mercy. While some criminals may evade punishment in this life, the Qur’an teaches that every wrongdoer will ultimately confront Allah in the Hereafter, where no injustice is ignored. Victims receive direct compensation, and oppressors face the repercussions of their actions.

I have asked you again and again
A victim is a polytheist and should be in hell, what recompense would he receive from the good deeds of his oppressor if the oppressor is a repentant Muslim that means anything?
Example:
Will Allah reduce the numbers of your Houri and give it to the wronged polytheist in hell?

honesttalk21:
The Christian notion that some people deserve endless punishment, only to have their guilt shifted onto an innocent person, really undermines both justice and the perfection of God. In Islam, there’s a sense of balance; every individual is responsible for their own actions, and every victim will receive their due. That’s what true justice looks like.

Which is more just having the guilty confront their victims before God, or transferring guilt to an innocent person while the real oppressor goes unpunished?

Again, Is Jesus according to the Bible just another Innocent person or God Himself taking up our place in judgement for sin?

In Islam, there is no balance as you have conjured. I have given you an example of a Polytheist wronged by a repentant Muslim. Kindly show how the Muslim will pay for his offence against this polytheist or stop peddle conjectures.

What good does confronting the repentant Muslim is to a man of the inhabitant of hell?
By the way, what is even your evidence that the wronged person will confront the offender on the day of judgment


Forgiveness is received by Atonement:
Either you pay for your own sin by yourself
OR
God pays for your sin by Himself.

You can choose which one you want.

It is called GOOD NEWS when God pays it for you because/otherwise, the alternative is for you to spend your Eternity in Hell.

TenQ:
You are repeating narratives but I am giving you facts of similarities between Allah and Iblis. All you needed to do is to falsify them.

Again:
So many things are like Allah eg Iblis
1. Allah is a subset of the Universe just as Iblis is a subset of the universe.
Is Allah not just above the seven heavens which is above the seven earth's?
2. Allah is one just like Iblis Iblis is one
How many Iblis do you know in the Universe?
3. Allah cannot do many things just like Iblis.
Can Allah enter into his creation and remain almighty?

The only logical way that Allah is not a subset of the universe is if he is the Universal SET i.e. the universe is within him and not that he is above the universe.

In the course of reinventing Allah, your scholars unknowingly boxed him into a corner.


See how you distinguished between sin against God and Sin against people!? This is wrong for everyone sin against man is sin against God BECAUSE man was created in the image of God.

Here is Allah copying Jesus
1. Hadith 18, 40 Hadith Qudsi
On the authority of Abu Hurayrah
2. Mishkat al-Masabih 1528
On the authority of Abu Huraira
3. Sahih Muslim 2569

A victim is a polytheist, what recompense would he receive from the good deeds of his oppressor if the oppressor is a Muslim that means anything?
Example:
Will Allah reduce the numbers of your Houri and give it to the wronged polytheist in hell?

Islam always breaks down with reasoning!


You are just repeating yourself misrepresenting Ezek 18: based on the limitations of Allah.
Only the True God can be Somewhere and Everywhere at the same Time without contradicting His Almightiness

*Can Allah be Unlimited and Limited at the same Time without contradicting His Almightiness
*Can Allah be Spirit and Physical at the same Time without contradicting His Almightiness
*Can Allah be ANYTHING without contradicting His Almightiness

If Allah cannot, it is an error to impose your understanding of the limitations of Allah on YHWH.



I have asked you again and again
A victim is a polytheist and should be in hell, what recompense would he receive from the good deeds of his oppressor if the oppressor is a repentant Muslim that means anything?
Example:
Will Allah reduce the numbers of your Houri and give it to the wronged polytheist in hell?


Again, Is Jesus according to the Bible just another Innocent person or God Himself taking up our place in judgement for sin?

In Islam, there is no balance as you have conjured. I have given you an example of a Polytheist wronged by a repentant Muslim. Kindly show how the Muslim will pay for his offence against this polytheist or stop peddle conjectures.

What good does confronting the repentant Muslim is to a man of the inhabitant of hell?
By the way, what is even your evidence that the wronged person will confront the offender on the day of judgment


Forgiveness is received by Atonement:
Either you pay for your own sin by yourself
OR
God pays for your sin by Himself.

You can choose which one you want.

It is called GOOD NEWS when God pays it for you because/otherwise, the alternative is for you to spend your Eternity in Hell.

It's unproductive having discussions since you are adamant about your views no matter how incorrect.

Even your Bible tells you nothing is like God yet you arrogantly insist on the created being like the creator.

Isaiah 40:18
To whom then will you liken God, or what likeness compare with him?

Exodus 15:11
Who is like you, O Lord, among the gods? Who is like you, majestic in holiness, awesome in glorious deeds, doing wonders?

Isaiah 46:9
...for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me

This major contradiction in the new testament not with the Jews is quite enormous.

Furthermore in traditional Jewish and Islamic understanding, atonement is through sincere repentance without a need for sacrifice.

Ezekiel 18:21-22
But if a wicked person turns away from all his sins... he shall surely live; he shall not die.

Hosea 6:6
For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings.

Alas a lot of unjustifiable contradiction is brought in with you and the new testament view of Jesus yet God is unchanging?

Funny how you choose to include God in a mathematical principle of sets when he is above this and created all.

God is not part of creation, not a subset of it, not the whole of it, nor merely outside it. God is ontologically distinct, the necessary and self-existent ground of all contingent being.

No bother and no further discussion required for indeed you worship what you will the way you want to. You should be ashamed of holding a misunderstood upholding of the hadith above the Qur'an itself. You are free to continue as a means to justify your misunderstanding and perhaps strengthen your resolve in Faith.

honesttalk21:
It's unproductive having discussions since you are adamant about your views no matter how incorrect.

Even your Bible tells you nothing is like God yet you arrogantly insist on the created being like the creator.

Isaiah 40:18
To whom then will you liken God, or what likeness compare with him?

Exodus 15:11
Who is like you, O Lord, among the gods? Who is like you, majestic in holiness, awesome in glorious deeds, doing wonders?

Isaiah 46:9
...for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me

This major contradiction in the new testament not with the Jews is quite enormous.

Furthermore in traditional Jewish and Islamic understanding, atonement is through sincere repentance without a need for sacrifice.

Ezekiel 18:21-22
But if a wicked person turns away from all his sins... he shall surely live; he shall not die.

Hosea 6:6
For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings.

Alas a lot of unjustifiable contradiction is brought in with you and the new testament view of Jesus yet God is unchanging?

Funny how you choose to include God in a mathematical principle of sets when he is above this and created all.

God is not part of creation, not a subset of it, not the whole of it, nor merely outside it. God is ontologically distinct, the necessary and self-existent ground of all contingent being.

No bother and no further discussion required for indeed you worship what you will the way you want to. You should be ashamed of holding a misunderstood upholding of the hadith above the Qur'an itself. You are free to continue as a means to justify your misunderstanding and perhaps strengthen your resolve in Faith.

As usual

honesttalk21:
It's unproductive having discussions since you are adamant about your views no matter how incorrect.

Even your Bible tells you nothing is like God yet you arrogantly insist on the created being like the creator.

Isaiah 40:18
To whom then will you liken God, or what likeness compare with him?

Exodus 15:11
Who is like you, O Lord, among the gods? Who is like you, majestic in holiness, awesome in glorious deeds, doing wonders?

Isaiah 46:9
...for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me

This major contradiction in the new testament not with the Jews is quite enormous.

Furthermore in traditional Jewish and Islamic understanding, atonement is through sincere repentance without a need for sacrifice.

Ezekiel 18:21-22
But if a wicked person turns away from all his sins... he shall surely live; he shall not die.

Hosea 6:6
For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings.

Alas a lot of unjustifiable contradiction is brought in with you and the new testament view of Jesus yet God is unchanging?

Funny how you choose to include God in a mathematical principle of sets when he is above this and created all.

God is not part of creation, not a subset of it, not the whole of it, nor merely outside it. God is ontologically distinct, the necessary and self-existent ground of all contingent being.

No bother and no further discussion required for indeed you worship what you will the way you want to. You should be ashamed of holding a misunderstood upholding of the hadith above the Qur'an itself. You are free to continue as a means to justify your misunderstanding and perhaps strengthen your resolve in Faith.

Muslims are full of contradictions.

They claim superiority of the Qur'an over the hadith yet they Reject Mutah from the Qur'an because a hadith says Mohammed cancelled it.

Who fooleth thou you?

TenQ:
Muslims are full of contradictions.

They claim superiority of the Qur'an over the hadith yet they Reject Mutah from the Qur'an because a hadith says Mohammed cancelled it.

Who fooleth thou you?

You keep tossing around hadith about mutʿah as if Islam is all about a few random narrations. But let’s be real—Islam isn’t built on scattered reports. The Qur’an is the ultimate authority, and it clearly defines marriage as a “firm covenant” (4:21), not some throwaway contract. It only permits intimacy with “wives or those your right hands possess” (23:5–6), and mutʿah doesn’t fit that description. That’s why the Prophet pbuh prohibited it, and even Imam ʿAli, the fourth caliph, didn’t bring it back during his rule. So, ask yourself: if mutʿah were truly God’s eternal law, why did the person most trusted by Shia Islam leave it in the past?

Now, about “those your right hands possess”—that’s another tired misinterpretation. The Qur’an didn’t create slavery or captives; it was a reality for the whole world, including the Israelites in your Bible (check out Numbers 31:18). The key difference? The Qur’an put restrictions in place. Captives could only be taken into proper marriage (4:24–25), and forcing them into prostitution was strictly forbidden (24:33). Freeing them was seen as an act of faith and righteousness (90:13). That’s not about sexual looseness; it’s about reform and dignity.

But here’s the real hypocrisy: the Bible allows slavery and sex with captives without those restrictions. Where was the divine “firm covenant” in that? Yet Christians brush it off as “context” while criticizing the Qur’an, which actually tightened the rules. That’s not just a double standard; it’s plain intellectual dishonesty.

And here’s the uncomfortable truth: Christianity’s doctrine of atonement undermines justice. The guilty walk free while the innocent pays the price. What kind of justice system lets a rapist go unpunished while an innocent person suffers? If that happened in a real court, you’d call it corruption. Islam rejects that chaos. “No bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another” (6:164). Every soul is accountable for its own actions. Mercy exists, but not at the expense of justice.

So let’s be clear. Which is more just? A God who holds every sinner accountable? or a God who allows sin to be transferred from the criminal to the innocent? Which one really upholds justice?

Be honest! if a human judge acted like your doctrine describes, you’d call him unjust. But when it’s God, you call it “love”? That’s not love that’s moral collapse.

honesttalk21:
You keep tossing around hadith about mutʿah as if Islam is all about a few random narrations. But let’s be real—Islam isn’t built on scattered reports. The Qur’an is the ultimate authority, and it clearly defines marriage as a “firm covenant” (4:21), not some throwaway contract. It only permits intimacy with “wives or those your right hands possess” (23:5–6), and mutʿah doesn’t fit that description. That’s why the Prophet pbuh prohibited it, and even Imam ʿAli, the fourth caliph, didn’t bring it back during his rule. So, ask yourself: if mutʿah were truly God’s eternal law, why did the person most trusted by Shia Islam leave it in the past?

Allah prescribed Mutah for you Muslims, did Allah Abrogate the Mutah anywhere in the Qur'an?

Mohammed Abrogated Mutah isn't it and it is in your Hadith. So, which one do you Muslims follow
1. Is it the Qur'an or
2. The Hadith?

honesttalk21:
Now, about “those your right hands possess”—that’s another tired misinterpretation. The Qur’an didn’t create slavery or captives; it was a reality for the whole world, including the Israelites in your Bible (check out Numbers 31:18). The key difference? The Qur’an put restrictions in place. Captives could only be taken into proper marriage (4:24–25), and forcing them into prostitution was strictly forbidden (24:33). Freeing them was seen as an act of faith and righteousness (90:13). That’s not about sexual looseness; it’s about reform and dignity.

Allah says in The Qur'an:
"Force not your slave girls into Prostitution "
BUT if you do what happens?

honesttalk21:
But here’s the real hypocrisy: the Bible allows slavery and sex with captives without those restrictions. Where was the divine “firm covenant” in that? Yet Christians brush it off as “context” while criticizing the Qur’an, which actually tightened the rules. That’s not just a double standard; it’s plain intellectual dishonesty.

Evidence for this claim please: where the Bible allows slavery and sex with captives without restrictions!

honesttalk21:
And here’s the uncomfortable truth: Christianity’s doctrine of atonement undermines justice. The guilty walk free while the innocent pays the price. What kind of justice system lets a rapist go unpunished while an innocent person suffers? If that happened in a real court, you’d call it corruption. Islam rejects that chaos. “No bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another” (6:164). Every soul is accountable for its own actions. Mercy exists, but not at the expense of justice.

Sorry!
In Atonement, the Guilty is Judged but his punishment is carried for him by God Himself because the Guilty person accepted God's help for paying for his sins.

In Atonement, those who reject God's help (like you) pay for their own sin for Eternity in Hell

Tell me what is not fair here. You will pay for your sin in Hell.

All Sins are primarily against God and not man.
Yes,
Mercy exists, but not at the expense of justice. But justice require that the Sinner must go to Hell. The difference between us is that I allow God to pay off my debt of Sin BUT you will bear your own burden of sin.

honesttalk21:
So let’s be clear. Which is more just? A God who holds every sinner accountable? or a God who allows sin to be transferred from the criminal to the innocent? Which one really upholds justice?

Be honest! if a human judge acted like your doctrine describes, you’d call him unjust. But when it’s God, you call it “love”? That’s not love that’s moral collapse.

The God who holds every one accountable and punished them accordingly is the Just God.

-God therefore has judged TenQ as Guilty of Sin
God Judged TenQ with the Punishment of Eternity in Hell
-However, God GAVE His Free Gift of Salvation from this Punishment because of His Love that the Messiah takes up my Punishment in Hell for Me.

-Therefore, I have been held accountable, sentenced and judged BUT by God's Love and Mercy, I received REDEMPTION because the Messiah Paid my Fine.



Let's Look at YOU:
-Honesttalk21 is Guilty of Sin
-Honesttalk21 is judged with a punishment of Eternity in Hell Fire
-Allah claims to waive off Honesttalk21's sin because he recited La illah illa lah 3 times, he is a Muslim and he prays five times a day.

According to your claims:
1. Has Allah held you honesttalk21 as a sinner accountable for your sin?
2. Would it be immoral for Allah to pay for your sins by himself so that you can go free ?

Has Allah really upheld justice here?

TenQ:
Allah prescribed Mutah for you Muslims, did Allah Abrogate the Mutah anywhere in the Qur'an?

Mohammed Abrogated Mutah isn't it and it is in your Hadith. So, which one do you Muslims follow
1. Is it the Qur'an or
2. The Hadith?



Allah says in The Qur'an:
"Force not your slave girls into Prostitution "
BUT if you do what happens?





Evidence for this claim please: where the Bible allows slavery and sex with captives without restrictions!



Sorry!
In Atonement, the Guilty is Judged but his punishment is carried for him by God Himself because the Guilty person accepted God's help for paying for his sins.

In Atonement, those who reject God's help (like you) pay for their own sin for Eternity in Hell

Tell me what is not fair here. You will pay for your sin in Hell.

All Sins are primarily against God and not man.
Yes,
Mercy exists, but not at the expense of justice. But justice require that the Sinner must go to Hell. The difference between us is that I allow God to pay off my debt of Sin BUT you will bear your own burden of sin.



The God who holds every one accountable and punished them accordingly is the Just God.

-God therefore has judged TenQ as Guilty of Sin
God Judged TenQ with the Punishment of Eternity in Hell
-However, God GAVE His Free Gift of Salvation from this Punishment because of His Love that the Messiah takes up my Punishment in Hell for Me.

-Therefore, I have been held accountable, sentenced and judged BUT by God's Love and Mercy, I received REDEMPTION because the Messiah Paid my Fine.



Let's Look at YOU:
-Honesttalk21 is Guilty of Sin
-Honesttalk21 is judged with a punishment of Eternity in Hell Fire
-Allah claims to waive off Honesttalk21's sin because he recited La illah illa lah 3 times, he is a Muslim and he prays five times a day.

According to your claims:
1. Has Allah held you honesttalk21 as a sinner accountable for your sin?
2. Would it be immoral for Allah to pay for your sins by himself so that you can go free ?

Has Allah really upheld justice here?

You keep quoting hadith on mutʿah as though Islam stands or falls on scattered narrations. It doesn’t. The Qur’an is the foundation, and it describes marriage in weighty, sacred terms: “And how could you take it back while you have gone in unto each other and they have taken from you a solemn covenant” (4:21). That’s the language of permanence and responsibility, not a temporary contract you walk away from. Another verse puts it beautifully: “And among His signs is that He created for you spouses from among yourselves that you may find tranquility in them, and He placed between you affection and mercy” (30:21). Marriage, then, is about stability, love, mercy. Mutʿah doesn’t fit that vision, which is exactly why the Prophet pbuh put an end to it and why Imam Ali, even when he had full authority, never brought it back. If it were divine law forever, his silence would be inexplicable.

Then there’s the other favorite line of attack: “those your right hands possess.” Critics twist it into proof that Islam promoted prostitution. But that’s distortion. The phrase referred to captives of war a grim but universal reality in antiquity. The Qur’an didn’t invent it; it restrained it. Look at how it regulates: “Whoever among you cannot afford to marry free believing women, then he may marry from those whom your right hands possess… marry them with the permission of their people and give them their due compensation” (4:25). Or again: “Do not compel your slave-girls into prostitution if they desire chastity” (24:33). Freeing slaves is praised outright as righteousness: “The freeing of a slave” (90:13). Far from endorsing exploitation, the Qur’an sets a trajectory away from it—toward emancipation and dignity.

Now compare that with the Bible. Deuteronomy 21:10–14 tells Israelite soldiers they may take captive women as wives after war, and if they tire of them, just let them go. Numbers 31:18 goes further: “Keep alive for yourselves all the young girls who have not known man.” Leviticus 25:44–46 gives open license: you may own slaves as property, even pass them down to your children. No restriction, no trajectory of abolition. Christians brush this aside as “context,” yet turn around and condemn the Qur’an, which actually imposed restrictions and pointed toward reform. That is a glaring double standard.

And here’s the bigger irony: Christians accuse Islam of moral looseness, while their central doctrine is looser than anything in the Qur’an. Atonement teaches that the guilty sinner escapes his due punishment because Jesus bears it instead. But Ezekiel 18:20 flatly contradicts this: “The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father the guilt of the son; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.” That’s justice in its pure form. The Qur’an echoes the same principle: “No bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another” (6:164). In Islam, mercy exists, yes but never at the expense of accountability. Each person stands for their own deeds.

So which vision really lines up with reason and justice? A Qur’an that treats marriage as covenant, restrains sexual exploitation, and keeps responsibility personal? Or a theology that excuses slavery without reform and shifts guilt onto the innocent? If you condemn Islam here, honesty demands you condemn the Bible even more.

TenQ:
Let's Look at YOU:
-Honesttalk21 is Guilty of Sin
-Honesttalk21 is judged with a punishment of Eternity in Hell Fire
-Allah claims to waive off Honesttalk21's sin because he recited La illah illa lah 3 times, he is a Muslim and he prays five times a day.

According to your claims:
1. Has Allah held you honesttalk21 as a sinner accountable for your sin?
2. Would it be immoral for Allah to pay for your sins by himself so that you can go free ?

Has Allah really upheld justice here?

Why should Allah pay for what he has been merciful about? Does this make sense?

You say Islam just lets sin slide? No, man. The Qur’an spells it out: Whoever does evil will be paid back for it (4:123). We’ll set up the scales of justice so no soul is wronged, not even by a mustard seed (21:47). Nothing slips. Nothing!

In Islam, if you wrong somebody, you’re not walking away. On Judgment Day your good deeds get ripped out of your book and handed to your victim. And when you’ve got nothing left? Their sins land on you, and you’re the one burning in Hell. That’s payback. That’s real accountability.

Now your system? It’s a free pass. A man can kill, rape, oppress then just say “I accept Jesus” and he’s off the hook. Tell me, where’s the justice for the victim in that? Their cries just vanish into the air? That’s not justice, that’s a scam.

You say stealing an apple, telling a lie,tiny, finite sins deserve infinite Hellfire. Forever. Same sentence as murder. Unless, of course, some innocent guy gets executed in your place. And you call that justice?
Your own book says otherwise. The soul that sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father (Ezek. 18:20). Straight up. But your theology spits on that verse.

Islam doesn’t play that game. In Islam, every soul carries its own load. Your punishment matches your crime. You want mercy? Repent, make it right, and God may forgive you. But you don’t get to dump your mess on someone else.

So let’s stop pretending. Which system is actually just? The one that makes every sinner answer for his own dirt or the one that lets the guilty walk while the innocent bleeds?

honesttalk21:
Why should Allah pay for what he has been merciful about? Does this make sense?

You say Islam just lets sin slide? No, man. The Qur’an spells it out: Whoever does evil will be paid back for it (4:123). We’ll set up the scales of justice so no soul is wronged, not even by a mustard seed (21:47). Nothing slips. Nothing!

In Islam, if you wrong somebody, you’re not walking away. On Judgment Day your good deeds get ripped out of your book and handed to your victim. And when you’ve got nothing left? Their sins land on you, and you’re the one burning in Hell. That’s payback. That’s real accountability.

And I have asked you to put this claim to test.
A repentant Muslim man raped a woman who is a Polytheist. We know that the polytheist should be in Hell.
Tell me, how many houri will be withdrawn from this Muslim man and given to the hell bound woman?
SMH!

honesttalk21:
Now your system? It’s a free pass. A man can kill, rape, oppress then just say “I accept Jesus” and he’s off the hook. Tell me, where’s the justice for the victim in that? Their cries just vanish into the air? That’s not justice, that’s a scam.

Do you even know what is called Mercy?
Mercy is not getting what you deserve as judgement of guilt!

You just called Gods mercy a scam!

The True God YHWH served Justice while executing Mercy but you call it a scam!?

honesttalk21:
You say stealing an apple, telling a lie,tiny, finite sins deserve infinite Hellfire. Forever. Same sentence as murder. Unless, of course, some innocent guy gets executed in your place. And you call that justice?
Your own book says otherwise. The soul that sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father (Ezek. 18:20). Straight up. But your theology spits on that verse.

Islam doesn’t play that game. In Islam, every soul carries its own load. Your punishment matches your crime. You want mercy? Repent, make it right, and God may forgive you. But you don’t get to dump your mess on someone else.

The problem is that Islam doesn't understand the concept of Sin. Sin is Filth and Blemish like excrement.

To you small excrement is small offence while big excrement is big offence. How ignorant can a religious person be. Sin make you totally objectionable to God.

Only in Islam do we have big sin and small sin because of gross ignorance!

honesttalk21:
So let’s stop pretending. Which system is actually just? The one that makes every sinner answer for his own dirt or the one that lets the guilty walk while the innocent bleeds?

Allah says he forgives you by his mercy BUT he punishes you for your offence by removing out of your blessings to give the offended person.

Is this the Islamic Definition of Mercy?

TenQ:
And I have asked you to put this claim to test.
A repentant Muslim man raped a woman who is a Polytheist. We know that the polytheist should be in Hell.
Tell me, how many houri will be withdrawn from this Muslim man and given to the hell bound woman?
SMH!



Do you even know what is called Mercy?
Mercy is not getting what you deserve as judgement of guilt!

You just called Gods mercy a scam!

The True God YHWH served Justice while executing Mercy but you call it a scam!?



The problem is that Islam doesn't understand the concept of Sin. Sin is Filth and Blemish like excrement.

To you small excrement is small offence while big excrement is big offence. How ignorant can a religious person be. Sin make you totally objectionable to God.

Only in Islam do we have big sin and small sin because of gross ignorance!



Allah says he forgives you by his mercy BUT he punishes you for your offence by removing out of your blessings to give the offended person.

Is this the Islamic Definition of Mercy?

Your example collapses under its own weight. You imagine a Muslim who rapes a polytheist woman, repents, and then simply walks into Paradise untouched? But that is not Islam. The Qur’an is explicit: “Whoever does wrong will be recompensed for it, and they will not find besides Allah a protector or helper” (4:123). The Prophet pbuh taught that on the Day of Judgment every victim will be repaid in full; if the oppressor has good deeds, they are given to the victim; if his good deeds run out, the victim’s sins are cast upon him until justice is done (Muslim 2581).

That applies whether the victim is Muslim or non-Muslim. So no, nothing is withdrawn from “houri” and handed to her; rather, her due is taken from the very deeds and record of the oppressor. That is real, proportionate justice. Accountability tied directly to the crime.

Now contrast this with your system. You say sin is all the same (rape, theft, murder, lying) equal in God’s eyes, all deserving of eternal Hell. That is not justice; that is absurdity.

Even human courts know the difference between stealing bread and killing a child. Yet your view makes God less just than human judges. Worse still, you say an innocent man takes the punishment instead of the criminal, in direct violation of the Bible itself: “The soul that sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself” (Ezekiel 18:20).

By your logic, Hitler could “accept Jesus” on his deathbed and go free while his victims stay in Hell. Where is the justice in that?

Islam distinguishes between sins not out of “ignorance” but out of wisdom: a lie is not equal to genocide, and God’s justice reflects that. And yes, Islam teaches mercy but mercy after accountability, not mercy that cancels justice. The Qur’an makes it clear: “No bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another” (6:164). Each soul answers for itself. That is true mercy and true justice, not the chaos of your system where guilt is transferable and infinite punishment is unleashed for finite sins.

So the real question is this: which is more merciful; a God who holds oppressors accountable to their victims and offers forgiveness with repentance, or a God who declares all sins equal, condemns all to eternal Hell, and then pardons the guilty by punishing the innocent?

honesttalk21:
You keep quoting hadith on mutʿah as though Islam stands or falls on scattered narrations. It doesn’t. The Qur’an is the foundation, and it describes marriage in weighty, sacred terms: “And how could you take it back while you have gone in unto each other and they have taken from you a solemn covenant” (4:21). That’s the language of permanence and responsibility, not a temporary contract you walk away from. Another verse puts it beautifully: “And among His signs is that He created for you spouses from among yourselves that you may find tranquility in them, and He placed between you affection and mercy” (30:21). Marriage, then, is about stability, love, mercy. Mutʿah doesn’t fit that vision, which is exactly why the Prophet pbuh put an end to it and why Imam Ali, even when he had full authority, never brought it back. If it were divine law forever, his silence would be inexplicable.

Then there’s the other favorite line of attack: “those your right hands possess.” Critics twist it into proof that Islam promoted prostitution. But that’s distortion. The phrase referred to captives of war a grim but universal reality in antiquity. The Qur’an didn’t invent it; it restrained it. Look at how it regulates: “Whoever among you cannot afford to marry free believing women, then he may marry from those whom your right hands possess… marry them with the permission of their people and give them their due compensation” (4:25). Or again: “Do not compel your slave-girls into prostitution if they desire chastity” (24:33). Freeing slaves is praised outright as righteousness: “The freeing of a slave” (90:13). Far from endorsing exploitation, the Qur’an sets a trajectory away from it—toward emancipation and dignity.

Now compare that with the Bible. Deuteronomy 21:10–14 tells Israelite soldiers they may take captive women as wives after war, and if they tire of them, just let them go. Numbers 31:18 goes further: “Keep alive for yourselves all the young girls who have not known man.” Leviticus 25:44–46 gives open license: you may own slaves as property, even pass them down to your children. No restriction, no trajectory of abolition. Christians brush this aside as “context,” yet turn around and condemn the Qur’an, which actually imposed restrictions and pointed toward reform. That is a glaring double standard.

And here’s the bigger irony: Christians accuse Islam of moral looseness, while their central doctrine is looser than anything in the Qur’an. Atonement teaches that the guilty sinner escapes his due punishment because Jesus bears it instead. But Ezekiel 18:20 flatly contradicts this: “The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father the guilt of the son; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.” That’s justice in its pure form. The Qur’an echoes the same principle: “No bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another” (6:164). In Islam, mercy exists, yes but never at the expense of accountability. Each person stands for their own deeds.

So which vision really lines up with reason and justice? A Qur’an that treats marriage as covenant, restrains sexual exploitation, and keeps responsibility personal? Or a theology that excuses slavery without reform and shifts guilt onto the innocent? If you condemn Islam here, honesty demands you condemn the Bible even more.

Here again you have your response

honesttalk21:
You keep quoting hadith on mutʿah as though Islam stands or falls on scattered narrations. It doesn’t. The Qur’an is the foundation, and it describes marriage in weighty, sacred terms: “And how could you take it back while you have gone in unto each other and they have taken from you a solemn covenant” (4:21). That’s the language of permanence and responsibility, not a temporary contract you walk away from. Another verse puts it beautifully: “And among His signs is that He created for you spouses from among yourselves that you may find tranquility in them, and He placed between you affection and mercy” (30:21). Marriage, then, is about stability, love, mercy. Mutʿah doesn’t fit that vision, which is exactly why the Prophet pbuh put an end to it and why Imam Ali, even when he had full authority, never brought it back. If it were divine law forever, his silence would be inexplicable.

Then there’s the other favorite line of attack: “those your right hands possess.” Critics twist it into proof that Islam promoted prostitution. But that’s distortion. The phrase referred to captives of war a grim but universal reality in antiquity. The Qur’an didn’t invent it; it restrained it. Look at how it regulates: “Whoever among you cannot afford to marry free believing women, then he may marry from those whom your right hands possess… marry them with the permission of their people and give them their due compensation” (4:25). Or again: “Do not compel your slave-girls into prostitution if they desire chastity” (24:33). Freeing slaves is praised outright as righteousness: “The freeing of a slave” (90:13). Far from endorsing exploitation, the Qur’an sets a trajectory away from it—toward emancipation and dignity.

Now compare that with the Bible. Deuteronomy 21:10–14 tells Israelite soldiers they may take captive women as wives after war, and if they tire of them, just let them go. Numbers 31:18 goes further: “Keep alive for yourselves all the young girls who have not known man.” Leviticus 25:44–46 gives open license: you may own slaves as property, even pass them down to your children. No restriction, no trajectory of abolition. Christians brush this aside as “context,” yet turn around and condemn the Qur’an, which actually imposed restrictions and pointed toward reform. That is a glaring double standard.

And here’s the bigger irony: Christians accuse Islam of moral looseness, while their central doctrine is looser than anything in the Qur’an. Atonement teaches that the guilty sinner escapes his due punishment because Jesus bears it instead. But Ezekiel 18:20 flatly contradicts this: “The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father the guilt of the son; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.” That’s justice in its pure form. The Qur’an echoes the same principle: “No bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another” (6:164). In Islam, mercy exists, yes but never at the expense of accountability. Each person stands for their own deeds.

So which vision really lines up with reason and justice? A Qur’an that treats marriage as covenant, restrains sexual exploitation, and keeps responsibility personal? Or a theology that excuses slavery without reform and shifts guilt onto the innocent? If you condemn Islam here, honesty demands you condemn the Bible even more.

Here again you have your response part TWO

honesttalk21:
Your example collapses under its own weight. You imagine a Muslim who rapes a polytheist woman, repents, and then simply walks into Paradise untouched? But that is not Islam. The Qur’an is explicit: “Whoever does wrong will be recompensed for it, and they will not find besides Allah a protector or helper” (4:123). The Prophet pbuh taught that on the Day of Judgment every victim will be repaid in full; if the oppressor has good deeds, they are given to the victim; if his good deeds run out, the victim’s sins are cast upon him until justice is done (Muslim 2581).

That applies whether the victim is Muslim or non-Muslim. So no, nothing is withdrawn from “houri” and handed to her; rather, her due is taken from the very deeds and record of the oppressor. That is real, proportionate justice. Accountability tied directly to the crime.

So, even the repentant Muslim rapist will go to hell if I take you at your words!?

So, what then is the forgiveness by mercy of Allah ton this Muslim repentant rapist?


Please listen to yourself the islamic justice
nothing is withdrawn from “houri” and handed to her; rather, her due is taken from the very deeds and record of the oppressor

It's just a record that is removed and handed over to the Polytheist woman in hell!?
Hell must be truely comfortable for a positive RECORD to make sense of what somebody did against us and not the positives we did for others.
SMH!

honesttalk21:
Now contrast this with your system. You say sin is all the same (rape, theft, murder, lying) equal in God’s eyes, all deserving of eternal Hell. That is not justice; that is absurdity.

Even human courts know the difference between stealing bread and killing a child. Yet your view makes God less just than human judges. Worse still, you say an innocent man takes the punishment instead of the criminal, in direct violation of the Bible itself: “The soul that sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself” (Ezekiel 18:20).

By your logic, Hitler could “accept Jesus” on his deathbed and go free while his victims stay in Hell. Where is the justice in that?

The Power of God washes away the greatest of sin and injustice: It doesn't take God more power to cleanse a sinner from violent dreadful sins than the less inconsequential ones.
Moreover, in Christianity, ALL sins are primarily against GOD and not the victim of the crime because the victim is the image of God.
You keep throwing about Ezekiel 18:20 as if you comprehend it's meaning: Is Jesus the son of any man?

Isaiah 53:4-6
"Surely He has borne our griefs
And carried our sorrows;
Yet we esteemed Him stricken,
Smitten by God, and afflicted.
But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned, every one, to his own way;
And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all."
SMH!!

Yes, Hitler can repent at his death bed and God will forgive him. His victims should worry about their own sin against God and ask for mercy too.

honesttalk21:
Islam distinguishes between sins not out of “ignorance” but out of wisdom: a lie is not equal to genocide, and God’s justice reflects that. And yes, Islam teaches mercy but mercy after accountability, not mercy that cancels justice. The Qur’an makes it clear: “No bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another” (6:164). Each soul answers for itself. That is true mercy and true justice, not the chaos of your system where guilt is transferable and infinite punishment is unleashed for finite sins.

Islam doesn't understand the concept of SIN period!
Which one of these two will make your drinking cup unusable: Excrement in small quantities and excrement in large quantities inside it!

Sin it that which pollutes island make us unfit for God.

honesttalk21:
So the real question is this: which is more merciful; a God who holds oppressors accountable to their victims and offers forgiveness with repentance, or a God who declares all sins equal, condemns all to eternal Hell, and then pardons the guilty by punishing the innocent?

I have answered this question almost thrice now
1. You have been making this claim without evidence
Show me a hadith or Quran that says that on the day of judgment Allah will hold Repentant Muslim who have been forgiven (by the Blackstone) accountable for their crime against humanity!

I am waiting.

You don't know the meaning of Mercy sir.
Mercy and accountability doesn't go together.

Mercy is not giving me the judgment I deserve.
Mercy is freeing a guilty person from the consequences of his misdeeds

Except, your understanding is that Allah forgives Partially



The Greater God is One who simultaneously
1. Executes JUSTICE in FULL because a sinner cannot go unpunished AND
2. Because of His LOVE for the Guilty, shows Mercy by FREEING him TOTALLY from the Consequence of his Misdeeds against man and God

Can Allah fully execute JUSTICE while fully showing Mercy to the sinner

TenQ:
So, even the repentant Muslim rapist will go to hell if I take you at your words!?

So, what then is the forgiveness by mercy of Allah ton this Muslim repentant rapist?


Please listen to yourself the islamic justice
nothing is withdrawn from “houri” and handed to her; rather, her due is taken from the very deeds and record of the oppressor

It's just a record that is removed and handed over to the Polytheist woman in hell!?
Hell must be truely comfortable for a positive RECORD to make sense of what somebody did against us and not the positives we did for others.
SMH!


The Power of God washes away the greatest of sin and injustice: It doesn't take God more power to cleanse a sinner from violent dreadful sins than the less inconsequential ones.
Moreover, in Christianity, ALL sins are primarily against GOD and not the victim of the crime because the victim is the image of God.
You keep throwing about Ezekiel 18:20 as if you comprehend it's meaning: Is Jesus the son of any man?

Isaiah 53:4-6
"Surely He has borne our griefs
And carried our sorrows;
Yet we esteemed Him stricken,
Smitten by God, and afflicted.
But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned, every one, to his own way;
And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all."
SMH!!

Yes, Hitler can repent at his death bed and God will forgive him. His victims should worry about their own sin against God and ask for mercy too.



Islam doesn't understand the concept of SIN period!
Which one of these two will make your drinking cup unusable: Excrement in small quantities and excrement in large quantities inside it!

Sin it that which pollutes island make us unfit for God.




I have answered this question almost thrice now
1. You have been making this claim without evidence
Show me a hadith or Quran that says that on the day of judgment Allah will hold Repentant Muslim who have been forgiven (by the Blackstone) accountable for their crime against humanity!

I am waiting.

You don't know the meaning of Mercy sir.
Mercy and accountability doesn't go together.

Mercy is not giving me the judgment I deserve.
Mercy is freeing a guilty person from the consequences of his misdeeds

Except, your understanding is that Allah forgives Partially



The Greater God is One who simultaneously
1. Executes JUSTICE in FULL because a sinner cannot go unpunished AND
2. Because of His LOVE for the Guilty, shows Mercy by FREEING him TOTALLY from the Consequence of his Misdeeds against man and God

Can Allah fully execute JUSTICE while fully showing Mercy to the sinner

You forget mockingly asking “Will Allah reduce your houris and give them to the wronged polytheist in Hell?” As if Islamic justice is some crude barter system where women are swapped like currency. Let’s get this straight; houris have nothing to do with justice or compensation. They are a reward of Paradise, symbols of eternal joy for those whom Allah admits into His mercy. They are never “deducted,” never “handed over,” and certainly not gifted to people who already chose Hell through their own disbelief. That caricature says more about your mockery than it does about Islam.

The Prophet pbuh explained justice very clearly: “On the Day of Judgment, the wronged will be compensated from the good deeds of the oppressor. If those good deeds run out, the victim’s sins are cast upon him” (Bukhar 2449). That’s not barter. That’s moral accountability. You wronged someone? You pay with your own deeds, with your own record. The victim gains, you lose. Justice served.

Now compare that to what you yourself admitted: Hitler could repent on his deathbed, “accept Jesus,” and walk into Paradise, while his millions of victims “worry about their own sins.” In your theology, the victims receive nothing from the oppressor. Their blood, their pain, their cries all ignored. And the criminal? He strolls into eternal bliss because he outsourced his punishment onto Jesus. Tell me: where in that is justice?

You also claim “all sins are equal.” But your own Bible disagrees. Jesus himself says in John 19:11: “The one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin.” In Matthew 11:23-24, he warns that Sodom will be judged more lightly than Capernaum. Even Paul, in Romans 6:23, speaks of “wages of sin” in different contexts. If all sin is equal, why does your own scripture rank them? Clearly, a lie is not the same as genocide. Even you don’t believe your own analogy.

And then there’s Ezekiel 18:20 the verse you keep dodging: “The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.” How does atonement survive that? If Jesus was innocent, how does he bear the guilt of murderers and thieves? If God is just, why does He shift blame from the criminal to someone else entirely? Your doctrine says God’s mercy required killing His own Son. Scripture says the opposite: each man bears his own burden.

The Qur’an affirms the exact same truth: “No bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another” (6:164). Every soul earns what it earns, every soul pays for what it did. But unlike your system, Islam doesn’t lock the gates of mercy. Repent sincerely, make amends, seek forgiveness and God may forgive you directly. No human sacrifice required. No injustice against the innocent.

So no Allah does not “reduce your houris.” That’s childish mockery, not theology. In Islam, justice is exact, proportional, and personal. Paradise is reward. Hell is punishment. Victims’ rights are never erased.

So I’ll ask you plainly which vision of God is greater and better?
A God who holds every soul accountable, yet forgives directly out of mercy?
Or a God who declares all sins the same, condemns all to eternal Hell, and then pardons the guilty only by punishing the innocent?

Mercy and accountability are not contradictions; they are complements. Accountability preserves justice, while mercy prevents justice from becoming cruelty. Together they reflect a God who is both just and compassionate.

honesttalk21:
You forget mockingly asking “Will Allah reduce your houris and give them to the wronged polytheist in Hell?” As if Islamic justice is some crude barter system where women are swapped like currency. Let’s get this straight; houris have nothing to do with justice or compensation. They are a reward of Paradise, symbols of eternal joy for those whom Allah admits into His mercy. They are never “deducted,” never “handed over,” and certainly not gifted to people who already chose Hell through their own disbelief. That caricature says more about your mockery than it does about Islam.

If the Houri are so special that they cannot be given to the wronged person (even though this is not true) what will be given to the wronged person out of his blessings. Let us assume that the wronged person is a polytheist?

honesttalk21:
The Prophet pbuh explained justice very clearly: “On the Day of Judgment, the wronged will be compensated from the good deeds of the oppressor. If those good deeds run out, the victim’s sins are cast upon him” (Bukhar 2449). That’s not barter. That’s moral accountability. You wronged someone? You pay with your own deeds, with your own record. The victim gains, you lose. Justice served.

You are just repeating yourself.
1. Now the wronged person is a polytheist and in hell, the offender is a repentant Muslim, what will be given to the Polytheist in Hello from the Muslim.
2. The wronged person is a Polytheist and in hell and the offender is also a polytheist in hell, what will be given to the offended person?

When Islam is questioned, it breaks down irrevocably!

honesttalk21:
Now compare that to what you yourself admitted: Hitler could repent on his deathbed, “accept Jesus,” and walk into Paradise, while his millions of victims “worry about their own sins.” In your theology, the victims receive nothing from the oppressor. Their blood, their pain, their cries all ignored. And the criminal? He strolls into eternal bliss because he outsourced his punishment onto Jesus. Tell me: where in that is justice?

All Sins are against God!
Thus, you cause pain to your neighbour, God says it is Him you have caused pain.

I ask you, is it possible for any man to fully restore the damage he caused to another?
As an example,
Can a man unrape his victim?

Islam is naive in so many spiritual aspects.

honesttalk21:
You also claim “all sins are equal.” But your own Bible disagrees. Jesus himself says in John 19:11: “The one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin.” In Matthew 11:23-24, he warns that Sodom will be judged more lightly than Capernaum. Even Paul, in Romans 6:23, speaks of “wages of sin” in different contexts. If all sin is equal, why does your own scripture rank them? Clearly, a lie is not the same as genocide. Even you don’t believe your own analogy.

Khai!
You are ignorant of the fact that there is a difference between SIN/RIGHTEOUSNESS and REWARD?
1. SIN takes you to Hell
2. RIGHTEOUSNESS takes you to Paradise

Those in Paradise do not receive the same REWARD, they are Rewarded according to their FAITHFULNESS in their Use of RESOURCES for God's People.

Those in Hell do not receive the same REWARD, they are Rewarded according to their FAITHLESSNESS in their Use of RESOURCES for God's People.


This is what Jesus was speaking about sir.

Thus, there is no BIG sin nor SMALL sin because SIN irrespective of its SIZE takes you to Hell Fire .

How come you are so ignorant of this simple spiritual fact.

Will Muslims be rewarded equally in Paradise?

honesttalk21:
And then there’s Ezekiel 18:20 the verse you keep dodging: “The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.” How does atonement survive that? If Jesus was innocent, how does he bear the guilt of murderers and thieves? If God is just, why does He shift blame from the criminal to someone else entirely? Your doctrine says God’s mercy required killing His own Son. Scripture says the opposite: each man bears his own burden.

Bear your own burden for eternity in Hell please!
It is your choice,

This is what God's solution is

Isaiah 53:4-6
"Surely He has borne our griefs
And carried our sorrows;
Yet we esteemed Him stricken,
Smitten by God, and afflicted.
But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned, every one, to his own way;
And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all."

SMH!!

honesttalk21:
The Qur’an affirms the exact same truth: “No bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another” (6:164). Every soul earns what it earns, every soul pays for what it did. But unlike your system, Islam doesn’t lock the gates of mercy. Repent sincerely, make amends, seek forgiveness and God may forgive you directly. No human sacrifice required. No injustice against the innocent.

Then Reject the Solution of God and choose to bear your own burden for eternity in Hell

It is simple!

John 3:16-18:
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believes on him is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

This is why the Gospel is Good News, that you will not carry the burden of your sin for eternity in Hell because God has carried it for you and thus you can go free

honesttalk21:
So no Allah does not “reduce your houris.” That’s childish mockery, not theology. In Islam, justice is exact, proportional, and personal. Paradise is reward. Hell is punishment. Victims’ rights are never erased.

So tell me again, how the crime of raping and violating a woman can be UNDONE?

Also, tell me specifically what a Polytheist raped woman will get in hell from her repentant Muslim rapist?

Also, what if the rapist was also a Polytheist, what reward will be extracted from him and given to the violated woman.

Islam always breaks down with small scrutiny!

honesttalk21:
So I’ll ask you plainly which vision of God is greater and better?
A God who holds every soul accountable, yet forgives directly out of mercy?
Or a God who declares all sins the same, condemns all to eternal Hell, and then pardons the guilty only by punishing the innocent?

Refer to my answers in previous posts.

honesttalk21:
Mercy and accountability are not contradictions; they are complements. Accountability preserves justice, while mercy prevents justice from becoming cruelty. Together they reflect a God who is both just and compassionate.

Your claim:
Allah forgives but still punishes you as a Muslim for your sin.

This had been your argument all along.


So, In ask , When Allah claims to forgive,
Does Allah forgive partially or fully?


You won't answer the questions as usual!

TenQ:
If the Houri are so special that they cannot be given to the wronged person (even though this is not true) what will be given to the wronged person out of his blessings. Let us assume that the wronged person is a polytheist?



You are just repeating yourself.
1. Now the wronged person is a polytheist and in hell, the offender is a repentant Muslim, what will be given to the Polytheist in Hello from the Muslim.
2. The wronged person is a Polytheist and in hell and the offender is also a polytheist in hell, what will be given to the offended person?

When Islam is questioned, it breaks down irrevocably!


All Sins are against God!
Thus, you cause pain to your neighbour, God says it is Him you have caused pain.

I ask you, is it possible for any man to fully restore the damage he caused to another?
As an example,
Can a man unrape his victim?

Islam is naive in so many spiritual aspects.



Khai!
You are ignorant of the fact that there is a difference between SIN/RIGHTEOUSNESS and REWARD?
1. SIN takes you to Hell
2. RIGHTEOUSNESS takes you to Paradise

Those in Paradise do not receive the same REWARD, they are Rewarded according to their FAITHFULNESS in their Use of RESOURCES for God's People.

Those in Hell do not receive the same REWARD, they are Rewarded according to their FAITHLESSNESS in their Use of RESOURCES for God's People.


This is what Jesus was speaking about sir.

Thus, there is no BIG sin nor SMALL sin because SIN irrespective of its SIZE takes you to Hell Fire .

How come you are so ignorant of this simple spiritual fact.

Will Muslims be rewarded equally in Paradise?


Bear your own burden for eternity in Hell please!
It is your choice,

This is what God's solution is

Isaiah 53:4-6
"Surely He has borne our griefs
And carried our sorrows;
Yet we esteemed Him stricken,
Smitten by God, and afflicted.
But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned, every one, to his own way;
And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all."

SMH!!


Then Reject the Solution of God and choose to bear your own burden for eternity in Hell

It is simple!

John 3:16-18:
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believes on him is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

This is why the Gospel is Good News, that you will not carry the burden of your sin for eternity in Hell because God has carried it for you and thus you can go free




So tell me again, how the crime of raping and violating a woman can be UNDONE?

Also, tell me specifically what a Polytheist raped woman will get in hell from her repentant Muslim rapist?

Also, what if the rapist was also a Polytheist, what reward will be extracted from him and given to the violated woman.

Islam always breaks down with small scrutiny!


Refer to my answers in previous posts.


Your claim:
Allah forgives but still punishes you as a Muslim for your sin.

This had been your argument all along.


So, In ask , When Allah claims to forgive,
Does Allah forgive partially or fully?


You won't answer the questions as usual!

You keep sneering about “houris being taken away and given to polytheists in Hell,” as if Islamic justice is some crude barter system. Let’s clear that up right now: houris have nothing to do with justice. They are rewards of Paradise, not tokens to be traded or deducted. No believer ever loses them, and they’re certainly not “handed out” to people who chose Hell for themselves. That whole mockery collapses under its own absurdity.

Now, to your real questions:

1. What if the wronged person is a polytheist in Hell, and the oppressor is a Muslim who repented?

Islam separates between the rights owed to God and the rights owed to people. Repentance wipes out the sin between a person and Allah, but it doesn’t erase the harm done to another human being. That debt remains. On the Day of Judgment, Allah Himself will compensate the wronged non-Muslim in a way only He can, so that no one can say they were wronged twice. The Prophet pbuh said: “Do not wrong one another, for wrongs will be repaid on the Day of Resurrection” (Muslim). Allah is Al-‘Adl The Just. No one escapes.

2. What if both oppressor and victim are polytheists in Hell?
The same principle applies. Their punishments are not identical. The victim’s burden is eased, the oppressor’s is made heavier. That is how divine justice work, every wrong shifts the balance. As the Qur’an says: “We will set up the scales of justice on the Day of Resurrection, and no soul will be wronged in the least” (21:47).

And your mockery: “Can a man unrape his victim?” Of course not. But here’s the difference. In your theology, the rapist can “accept Jesus” on his deathbed and escape all punishment, while the victim gets nothing. In Islam, that can’t happen. The crime is never erased at the expense of the victim. Justice reaches them either by direct compensation from Allah or by transferring from the oppressor’s own record. The victim is not forgotten.

Then you claim “all sins are equal.” But your own Bible undercuts you.

In John 19:11 Jesus says or is alleged to say “The one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin.”

Matthew 11:24 – “It will be more tolerable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you.”


So which is it? Equal, or greater/lesser? Even Paul speaks of “wages of sin” differently depending on context. The truth is obvious: not all sins weigh the same. Islam is consistent on this. Some sins are heavier, but all are judged fairly, and mercy is available.

And Isaiah 53? You read it as God dumping guilt onto the innocent. But that directly contradicts the Torah and the Prophets.
Ezekiel 18:20: “The soul that sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son.”
If that principle is from God Himself, then your doctrine of substitution collapses. God doesn’t contradict His own justice.

Finally, your taunt; “Does Allah forgive partially or fully?” The answer is fully. But full forgiveness doesn’t mean trampling victims. Forgiveness clears a sinner’s account with God, but debts to other humans remain. Those debts are settled through justice either by transferring deeds or by Allah Himself compensating the wronged. That isn’t partial forgiveness, it’s perfect balance; mercy without injustice.

So no, Islam does not “break down.” What actually breaks down is your system where a murderer can die with a whispered confession, walk straight into Heaven, and leave his victims eternally uncompensated. That isn’t mercy. That’s an insult to justice.

Perhaps you consider the Jewish Reading of Isaiah 53 where:

Isaiah 53 is not about an isolated “suffering Messiah” carrying away sins. In classical Jewish commentary, the “Servant” is Israel itself; the nation, described throughout Isaiah as “My servant” (cf. Isaiah 41:8, 44:21, 49:3).

The Servant (Israel) suffers at the hands of the nations. The nations look at Israel’s suffering and wrongly assume it must be because of Israel’s sins, when in fact it is because of their own violence and oppression.

Thus, Israel suffers because of the sins of the nations, but not in place of the nations. No guilt is transferred. Rather, Israel is vindicated by God, showing that their suffering was unjust.

This fits with Ezekiel 18 where

Ezekiel teaches that every individual bears his or her own guilt: “The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father…” (Ezek. 18:20).

There is no contradiction. Isaiah 53 is speaking poetically of collective historical suffering (exile, persecution) borne by the Jewish people due to the hostility of surrounding nations. Ezekiel speaks of personal accountability before God.

Together, they form a coherent principle: nations may experience collective consequences, but ultimate judgment remains personal.

The Christian reading of Isaiah 53 as “substitutionary atonement” is inconsistent with God’s justice as clearly stated in Ezekiel.

Instead, Isaiah 53 is understood as metaphorical, national, or about a prophet suffering unjustly but not literally carrying others’ sins.

honesttalk21:
Perhaps you consider the Jewish Reading of Isaiah 53 where:

Isaiah 53 is not about an isolated “suffering Messiah” carrying away sins. In classical Jewish commentary, the “Servant” is Israel itself; the nation, described throughout Isaiah as “My servant” (cf. Isaiah 41:8, 44:21, 49:3).

The Servant (Israel) suffers at the hands of the nations. The nations look at Israel’s suffering and wrongly assume it must be because of Israel’s sins, when in fact it is because of their own violence and oppression.

Thus, Israel suffers because of the sins of the nations, but not in place of the nations. No guilt is transferred. Rather, Israel is vindicated by God, showing that their suffering was unjust.

This fits with Ezekiel 18 where

Ezekiel teaches that every individual bears his or her own guilt: “The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father…” (Ezek. 18:20).

There is no contradiction. Isaiah 53 is speaking poetically of collective historical suffering (exile, persecution) borne by the Jewish people due to the hostility of surrounding nations. Ezekiel speaks of personal accountability before God.

Together, they form a coherent principle: nations may experience collective consequences, but ultimate judgment remains personal.

The Christian reading of Isaiah 53 as “substitutionary atonement” is inconsistent with God’s justice as clearly stated in Ezekiel.

Instead, Isaiah 53 is understood as metaphorical, national, or about a prophet suffering unjustly but not literally carrying others’ sins.

have you finished? Okay so he is Israel abi and he "suffers because of the sins of the nations, but not in place of the nations. No guilt is transferred. Rather, Israel is vindicated by God, showing that their suffering was unjust."

Okay o, hope everyone can read this with me
Isa.53.11 When he sees all that is accomplished by his anguish, he will be satisfied. And because of what he has experienced, my righteous servant will make it possible for many to be counted righteous, for he will bear all their sins.

honesttalk21:
You keep sneering about “houris being taken away and given to polytheists in Hell,” as if Islamic justice is some crude barter system. Let’s clear that up right now: houris have nothing to do with justice. They are rewards of Paradise, not tokens to be traded or deducted. No believer ever loses them, and they’re certainly not “handed out” to people who chose Hell for themselves. That whole mockery collapses under its own absurdity.

Now, to your real questions:

1. What if the wronged person is a polytheist in Hell, and the oppressor is a Muslim who repented?

Islam separates between the rights owed to God and the rights owed to people. Repentance wipes out the sin between a person and Allah, but it doesn’t erase the harm done to another human being. That debt remains. On the Day of Judgment, Allah Himself will compensate the wronged non-Muslim in a way only He can, so that no one can say they were wronged twice. The Prophet pbuh said: “Do not wrong one another, for wrongs will be repaid on the Day of Resurrection” (Muslim). Allah is Al-‘Adl The Just. No one escapes.

2. What if both oppressor and victim are polytheists in Hell?
The same principle applies. Their punishments are not identical. The victim’s burden is eased, the oppressor’s is made heavier. That is how divine justice work, every wrong shifts the balance. As the Qur’an says: “We will set up the scales of justice on the Day of Resurrection, and no soul will be wronged in the least” (21:47).

And your mockery: “Can a man unrape his victim?” Of course not. But here’s the difference. In your theology, the rapist can “accept Jesus” on his deathbed and escape all punishment, while the victim gets nothing. In Islam, that can’t happen. The crime is never erased at the expense of the victim. Justice reaches them either by direct compensation from Allah or by transferring from the oppressor’s own record. The victim is not forgotten.

So, you admit that a rapist cannot unrape his victim yet you prescribe a contradiction of rewards given for being wronged. A wronged person gets rewarded for being victimised!
This is the summary of Islamic judgement you have presented here.


All you have clearly displayed here is that Allah CANNOT forgive totally or he doesn't know the meaning of Mercy and Forgiveness


Contrast with the True God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob
Jer 31:34:
"And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, said the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."

Isaiah 43:25
"I, even I, am he who blots out your transgressions... and remembers your sins no more."

Isaiah 1:18
"Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow."

Hebrews 10:17
"Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more."

Jeremiah 31:34
"For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."

honesttalk21:
Then you claim “all sins are equal.” But your own Bible undercuts you.

In John 19:11 Jesus says or is alleged to say “The one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin.”

Matthew 11:24 – “It will be more tolerable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you.”


So which is it? Equal, or greater/lesser? Even Paul speaks of “wages of sin” differently depending on context. The truth is obvious: not all sins weigh the same. Islam is consistent on this. Some sins are heavier, but all are judged fairly, and mercy is available.

The above showing that you don't read at all things I wrote just a tad ago.

Please go back and read my previous post where I said:
You are ignorant of the fact that there is a difference between SIN/RIGHTEOUSNESS and REWARD?
1. SIN takes you to Hell
2. RIGHTEOUSNESS takes you to Paradise

Those in Paradise do not receive the same REWARD, they are Rewarded according to their FAITHFULNESS in their Use of RESOURCES for God's People.

Those in Hell do not receive the same REWARD, they are Rewarded according to their FAITHLESSNESS in their Use of RESOURCES for God's People.

honesttalk21:
And Isaiah 53? You read it as God dumping guilt onto the innocent. But that directly contradicts the Torah and the Prophets.
Ezekiel 18:20: “The soul that sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son.”
If that principle is from God Himself, then your doctrine of substitution collapses. God doesn’t contradict His own justice.

Even though you wouldn't listen,
Ezekiel wasn't even referring to the judgment in Paradise or Hell, it was referring to God punishing the children for the sins of their fathers as God used to in the past

Here are key scriptures where God speaks about punishing the children for the sins of their fathers:

Exodus 20:5 God says He is a jealous God who "visits the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me."

Exodus 34:7 - God is described as forgiving iniquity but also not leaving the guilty unpunished, "visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children and the children’s children to the third and fourth generation."

BUT
Deuteronomy 24:16 - This verse clarifies personal responsibility: "Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin." It emphasizes that individuals are accountable for their own sins, not punished simply because of their ancestors' sins

And your favourite verse
Ezekiel 18:20 - "The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son." This strongly affirms individual accountability for sin and refutes the idea of automatic punishment of children for their parents' sins

Secondly,
Even if you want to insist these verses are about judgement in Hell, Jesus is not anyone's SON!
Thus, all your repetitions are Vail noise.

1. God is JUST, thus He punishes SIN
2. The Punishment for Sin is ETERNITY in Hell
3. God's LOVE for man without VIOLATING his Being JUST applied MERCY through a RANSOM.
4. JESUS is that Ransom

But for you Muslims, Christians and Jews are your own ransom

honesttalk21:
Finally, your taunt; “Does Allah forgive partially or fully?” The answer is fully. But full forgiveness doesn’t mean trampling victims. Forgiveness clears a sinner’s account with God, but debts to other humans remain. Those debts are settled through justice either by transferring deeds or by Allah Himself compensating the wronged. That isn’t partial forgiveness, it’s perfect balance; mercy without injustice.

Hear yourself,
Allah forgives TOTALLY BUT you are still punished!
But it is still total forgiveness!

No, Allah's forgiveness is PARTIAL!

You are totally forgiven BUT you must chop some cane! And you defend this illogicality!?

honesttalk21:
So no, Islam does not “break down.” What actually breaks down is your system where a murderer can die with a whispered confession, walk straight into Heaven, and leave his victims eternally uncompensated. That isn’t mercy. That’s an insult to justice.

Islam breaks down ALWAYS with reasoning.
You just said that it is impossible to unrape a victim, what justice are you speaking about?

That is why, every offence against man is primarily an SIN against God. Every man deals with his own sin against his neighbour and crime against you is handled by God.

The logic wouldn't make sense to you.
God is saying that every crime you do against your fellow human is done to Him and God will extract maximum punishment for that BUT you, bother yourself with what you do against others.

Unlike Islam that tries to distribute Houri for people of hell (sorry it's because I don't know other rewards to be given to Muslims other than boreholes in numbers). And you never gave me any specifics!

honesttalk21:
Perhaps you consider the Jewish Reading of Isaiah 53 where:

Isaiah 53 is not about an isolated “suffering Messiah” carrying away sins. In classical Jewish commentary, the “Servant” is Israel itself; the nation, described throughout Isaiah as “My servant” (cf. Isaiah 41:8, 44:21, 49:3).

The Servant (Israel) suffers at the hands of the nations. The nations look at Israel’s suffering and wrongly assume it must be because of Israel’s sins, when in fact it is because of their own violence and oppression.

Thus, Israel suffers because of the sins of the nations, but not in place of the nations. No guilt is transferred. Rather, Israel is vindicated by God, showing that their suffering was unjust.

This fits with Ezekiel 18 where

Ezekiel teaches that every individual bears his or her own guilt: “The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father…” (Ezek. 18:20).

There is no contradiction. Isaiah 53 is speaking poetically of collective historical suffering (exile, persecution) borne by the Jewish people due to the hostility of surrounding nations. Ezekiel speaks of personal accountability before God.

Together, they form a coherent principle: nations may experience collective consequences, but ultimate judgment remains personal.

The Christian reading of Isaiah 53 as “substitutionary atonement” is inconsistent with God’s justice as clearly stated in Ezekiel.

Instead, Isaiah 53 is understood as metaphorical, national, or about a prophet suffering unjustly but not literally carrying others’ sins.

1. You agree with Jewish understanding negating Jesus as the Messiah
2. According to Isaiah 53
Since you seem to agree with the Jews understanding, may you please answer these questions

Isaiah 53:4-6
"Surely He Israel has borne our griefs
And carried our sorrows;
Yet we esteemed Him Israel stricken,
Smitten by God, and afflicted.
But He Israel was wounded for our transgressions,
He Israel was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him Israel,
And by His Israel's stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned, every one, to his own way;
And the Lord has laid on Him Israel the iniquity of us all."


1. Read the above passage with ISRAEL substituted for the Messiah and answer truthfully the questions below.
2. Does this revised passage make sense to you?
3. Who are the We, Us and Our, referenced in this passage ?
4. Are you affirming that your sins were laid upon Israel?

TenQ:
1. You agree with Jewish understanding negating Jesus as the Messiah
2. According to Isaiah 53
Since you seem to agree with the Jews understanding, may you please answer these questions

Isaiah 53:4-6
"Surely He Israel has borne our griefs
And carried our sorrows;
Yet we esteemed Him Israel stricken,
Smitten by God, and afflicted.
But He Israel was wounded for our transgressions,
He Israel was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him Israel,
And by His Israel's stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned, every one, to his own way;
And the Lord has laid on Him Israel the iniquity of us all."


1. Read the above passage with ISRAEL substituted for the Messiah and answer truthfully the questions below.
2. Does this revised passage make sense to you?
3. Who are the We, Us and Our, referenced in this passage ?
4. Are you affirming that your sins were laid upon Israel?

If your daughter were raped, would you accept God simply saying I will remember his sins no more’ (Jeremiah 31:34)? Is that justice or erasing her pain?

In Islam, no injustice is erased. The Qur’an says Whoever does an atom’s weight of wrong shall see it (99:7–. On Judgment Day, the rapist’s good deeds are taken and given to the victim. If his good deeds run out, her sins are placed on him, and he is cast into Hell. That is accountability.


But in your system, Hitler could repent at his deathbed, escape punishment, and enter Paradise while his millions of victims worry about their own sins.That’s not justice. That’s moral bankruptcy.


You quote Isaiah 53, but Ezekiel 18:20 is crystal clear that The soul that sins shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father. Even your own scripture rejects substitutionary atonement. No innocent man bears the guilt of the guilty.


Islam unites mercy with justice. Every soul pays what it owes, and every victim receives their due. Christianity divides them calling the punishment of the innocent love. So I ask you which system truly reflects the justice of God?

1. If God is just, why punish the innocent Jesus instead of the guilty sinner?


2. If all sins are equal, is lying really the same as genocide in God’s eyes?


3. If Hitler repented on his deathbed, does he get Paradise while his victims get Hell? Is that justice?


4. Ezekiel 18:20 says: “The soul that sins shall die.” Why do you teach the opposite?


5. If God can “forget sins” (Jer. 31:34), where is justice for the victim?


6. Does forgiveness without repayment not erase the oppressed?


7. How can sin be “transferred” when the Bible itself says: “No bearer of burdens shall bear the burden of another” (Qur’an 6:164, cf. Ezek. 18:20)?


8. Why does your system make God less just than human courts, which distinguish between theft and murder?


9. If salvation only requires faith, why does Jesus speak of judgment “according to works” in Matthew 16:27?


10. Did Israel suffer exile for the sins of nations (Isaiah 53), or did guilt magically transfer from sinner to savior?

TenQ:
1. You agree with Jewish understanding negating Jesus as the Messiah
2. According to Isaiah 53
Since you seem to agree with the Jews understanding, may you please answer these questions

Isaiah 53:4-6
"Surely He Israel has borne our griefs
And carried our sorrows;
Yet we esteemed Him Israel stricken,
Smitten by God, and afflicted.
But He Israel was wounded for our transgressions,
He Israel was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him Israel,
And by His Israel's stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned, every one, to his own way;
And the Lord has laid on Him Israel the iniquity of us all."


1. Read the above passage with ISRAEL substituted for the Messiah and answer truthfully the questions below.
2. Does this revised passage make sense to you?
3. Who are the We, Us and Our, referenced in this passage ?
4. Are you affirming that your sins were laid upon Israel?

1. Who is the Servant?
Isaiah himself answers this. In chapters 41–49, God repeatedly calls Israel, my servant, (Isaiah 41:8, 44:1, 49:3). So when Isaiah 53 says my servant, the natural reading is Israel, not an individual messiah.


2. Substituting Israel fits the text.
Israel’s history matches perfectly. Beaten, exiled, humiliated, accused of being cursed yet surviving. Their suffering was not just from their own sins, but from the hatred and violence of empires. Yet through Israel’s survival, nations came to know the one God. This matches Isaiah 52–54, where Israel is the central theme.


3. Who are the we and our?
Isaiah 52:15 sets the stage. So shall he sprinkle many nations; kings shall shut their mouths at him. The we in Isaiah 53 is the Gentile nations speaking. They admit that they had despised Israel as cursed, but later realize that Israel was suffering unjustly. They (the nations) were guilty, and Israel bore the consequences of their oppression.


4. What does bearing sins mean?
It does not mean guilt transfer. The Hebrew word often means enduring consequences. Israel bore the nations’ sins in the sense that they suffered exile, persecution, and oppression because of other people’s iniquity. Just like Lamentations 5 says Israel bore the sins of ancestors not that guilt moved, but that consequences fell on them.


5. Why this interpretation matters?
This way, Isaiah 53 fits with Ezekiel 18:20.The soul that sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father. Everyone is accountable for their own sins; guilt is never transferred. That’s why Jews and Muslims reject the Christian leap to substitutionary atonement. The servant suffers because of others, yes, but no one’s guilt magically shifts.


Isaiah 53 doesn’t teach substitution. It teaches vindication: Israel suffered unjustly at the hands of nations, but God will raise them up and prove them innocent. That fits the context, the Hebrew, and the rest of scripture without breaking Ezekiel 18:20.

honesttalk21:
1. Who is the Servant?
Isaiah himself answers this. In chapters 41–49, God repeatedly calls Israel, my servant, (Isaiah 41:8, 44:1, 49:3). So when Isaiah 53 says my servant, the natural reading is Israel, not an individual messiah.

Since you think Israel is the servant I all of the book of Isaiah, then explain
1. Isaiah 49:3 whixh also mentions "My Servant, Israel," but then speaks of the servant being sent to bring Jacob (Israel) back to God, indicating a difference between the servant and the nation.

Is Israel bringing Israel back to God?

2. The servant is portrayed as righteous, faithful, and ultimately justifying many by bearing their iniquities (Isaiah 53).

Is Israel a Righteous Nation?


So, we have two servants in the Book of Isaiah, One is Israel and the Other is the Messiah!

honesttalk21:
2. Substituting Israel fits the text.
Israel’s history matches perfectly. Beaten, exiled, humiliated, accused of being cursed yet surviving. Their suffering was not just from their own sins, but from the hatred and violence of empires. Yet through Israel’s survival, nations came to know the one God. This matches Isaiah 52–54, where Israel is the central theme.

If substitution of Israel fits the text, do you concur that in Israel is the deliverance of Muslim nations?

Then why do Islam hate the Jews this much except that Allah is definitely not YHWH!
You can have it both ways!

So, you affirm that God wasn't punishing Israel but it was because of Muslims nations that Israel is going through hardship!

You affirm that Israel as a nation carries your sorrows as Muslim nations!

You also affirm that God has laid the sins of the Muslim nations on Israel!

These are consequences of your claims.

honesttalk21:
3. Who are the we and our?
Isaiah 52:15 sets the stage. So shall he sprinkle many nations; kings shall shut their mouths at him. The we in Isaiah 53 is the Gentile nations speaking. They admit that they had despised Israel as cursed, but later realize that Israel was suffering unjustly. They (the nations) were guilty, and Israel bore the consequences of their oppression.

The prophet Isaiah was SPEAKING and including himself in the narrative sir. The gentile nations also represent Islamic nations.

Thus you affirm that your hate for Israel is unjustified error from your part , Allah's part and your prophets part.

honesttalk21:
4. What does bearing sins mean?
It does not mean guilt transfer. The Hebrew word often means enduring consequences. Israel bore the nations’ sins in the sense that they suffered exile, persecution, and oppression because of other people’s iniquity. Just like Lamentations 5 says Israel bore the sins of ancestors not that guilt moved, but that consequences fell on them.

It is not up to you to redefine what bearing sin means. This is not the Qur'an or Hadith that need to be filtered through the eyes of your scholars to make any sense.

Israel bears the SIN of Muslim nations you must affirm.

If this is true, why would Jews be used as ransom for Muslims from Hell?

honesttalk21:
5. Why this interpretation matters?
This way, Isaiah 53 fits with Ezekiel 18:20.The soul that sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father. Everyone is accountable for their own sins; guilt is never transferred. That’s why Jews and Muslims reject the Christian leap to substitutionary atonement. The servant suffers because of others, yes, but no one’s guilt magically shifts.

You.mean why re-interpretations matter to you?

Other prophets concur with the plain interpretation of the text

Zech 12:10:
"And I will pour on the house of David, and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look on me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn."

honesttalk21:
Isaiah 53 doesn’t teach substitution. It teaches vindication: Israel suffered unjustly at the hands of nations, but God will raise them up and prove them innocent. That fits the context, the Hebrew, and the rest of scripture without breaking Ezekiel 18:20.

Unfortunately, this is NOT Islam, thus it is NOT up to you to say what Isaiah 53 doesn't teach.

If what you claim is remotely true, then Islam is in serious Error for hating the Nation of Israel unjustly as one of the heathen nations.