₦airaland Forum

1. BOTH ARE INVISIBLE CHARACTERS.
Kids never actually see Santa; they believe because adults told them. Christians never actually see God; they believe because adults, parents, and pastors told them to.

2. BOTH HAVE MAGIC POWERS
Santa can fly around in one night
God can hear everyone's prayers at the same time. No proof or witnesses, just belief.

3. BOTH OPERATE ON THE WISH LIST SYSTEM.
Kids write letters to Santa to ask him for toys
Christians pray to god to ask him for blessings
Same concept, if you've been good, you get what you asked for

4. THE NAUGHTY OR NICE LISTS

Santa rewards good kids and skips bad kids, God blesses the righteous and punishes the sinners. Both use fear and reward to control behaviour.

5. THE STORY IS REPEATED EVERY YEAR
Santa's story gets told every Christmas season to keep kids believing. God's story gets told every Sunday in church to keep Christians believing.

6. BOTH RELY ON TRADITIONS NOT PROOFS.
Kids believe in Santa because that's what my parents said. Christians believe in God because that's what my parents and pastor said.

7. EVIDENCE DISSAPPEARS WHEN YOU GROW UP
Kids eventually realize that Santa was never real, the gifts came from parents, and not Santa. Christians rarely realize that God was never answering; the blessings came from people and life.

8. THEY BOTH SEE YOU WHEN YOU ARE SLIPPING
Santa knows if you have been bad or good. God knows your every thought and action, creepy surveillance packaged as love.

9. BOTH ARE PART OF A BIGGER INDUSTRY
Santa fills the holiday economy. God fills the church economy, and Billions flow every year from beliefs alone.

10. THE MAIN DIFFERENCE
Kids eventually grow out of SantaClaus. Christians are told never to grow out of God because one is seen as a childish fantasy, the other a holy faith.

Final thoughts, whether it is God or Santa Claus, both are characters you were told to believe in without evidence, rewarded for faith, and warned of punishments if you doubt. The only difference is that you grow out of Santa Claus, and many never grow out of God.

Ignorance
Who told you that God has magic powers?

Zaheertyler:
Ignorance
Who told you that God has magic powers?

Magic is another word for supernatural. So, go back and read again slowly.

The title "GOD" reminds us of the supernatural so we don't expect to see such with our physical eyes rather we can only perceive God through our mind's eyes.
For example all sane adults know that papers don't fly but can you convince your little child that papers can't fly without something carrying it?
Surely you have to tell the child that there is an invisible moving matter carrying the visible paper.
Likewise when talking about God or Gods the only way to perceive them is through the reactions of humans they are controlling.
Most people finds it difficult to believe in God because they can't see Him but they believe the wind even though they can't see it.
WHY?
Because wind when heavy carried different objects and move them towards the same direction!
So if you see people from different races, languages, nations, tribes and tongues unitedly doing what is good while the rest from those same places finds it extremely difficult to cohabit peacefully do you just assume that such a thing happened coincidentally? Isaiah 2:2-4
Before you respond please remember the objects moving towards the same direction even though they are of different shapes, weights and sizes!

Nnamdipapa:
1. BOTH ARE INVISIBLE CHARACTERS.
Kids never actually see Santa; they believe because adults told them. Christians never actually see God; they believe because adults, parents, and pastors told them to.

2. BOTH HAVE MAGIC POWERS
Santa can fly around in one night
God can hear everyone's prayers at the same time. No proof or witnesses, just belief.

3. BOTH OPERATE ON THE WISH LIST SYSTEM.
Kids write letters to Santa to ask him for toys
Christians pray to god to ask him for blessings
Same concept, if you've been good, you get what you asked for

4. THE NAUGHTY OR NICE LISTS

Santa rewards good kids and skips bad kids, God blesses the righteous and punishes the sinners. Both use fear and reward to control behaviour.

5. THE STORY IS REPEATED EVERY YEAR
Santa's story gets told every Christmas season to keep kids believing. God's story gets told every Sunday in church to keep Christians believing.

6. BOTH RELY ON TRADITIONS NOT PROOFS.
Kids believe in Santa because that's what my parents said. Christians believe in God because that's what my parents and pastor said.

7. EVIDENCE DISSAPPEARS WHEN YOU GROW UP
Kids eventually realize that Santa was never real, the gifts came from parents, and not Santa. Christians rarely realize that God was never answering; the blessings came from people and life.

8. THEY BOTH SEE YOU WHEN YOU ARE SLIPPING
Santa knows if you have been bad or good. God knows your every thought and action, creepy surveillance packaged as love.

9. BOTH ARE PART OF A BIGGER INDUSTRY
Santa fills the holiday economy. God fills the church economy, and Billions flow every year from beliefs alone.

10. THE MAIN DIFFERENCE
Kids eventually grow out of SantaClaus. Christians are told never to grow out of God because one is seen as a childish fantasy, the other a holy faith.

Final thoughts, whether it is God or Santa Claus, both are characters you were told to believe in without evidence, rewarded for faith, and warned of punishments if you doubt. The only difference is that you grow out of Santa Claus, and many never grow out of God.

I can already feel the incoming cognitive dissonance.

LordReed:
I can already feel the incoming cognitive dissonance.

😂😂😂 You are a 🤡.

Gabrielshow24:
😂😂😂 You are a 🤡.

See they have started arriving. Mr Spiritual store of snow and hail. Bwahahahahahaha.

What is the difference between the Santa Claus North Pole and your spiritual store of snow? Joker.

LordReed:
See they have started arriving. Mr Spiritual store of snow and hail. Bwahahahahahaha.

What is the difference between the Santa Claus North Pole and your spiritual store of snow? Joker.

😂😂😂 Lovely, my frenemy🤣 has done it again. You always make me laugh, I respect our interactions. I see from your perspective, even beyond what your brain can put into words, but I have ’extra’—I have God's own as well😁👌 . That's the difference between us!

Gabrielshow24:
😂😂😂 Lovely, my frenemy🤣 has done it again. You always make me laugh, I respect our interactions. I see from your perspective, even beyond what your brain can put into words, but I have ’extra’—I have God's own as well😁👌 . That's the difference between us!

How do you know you have "God's own?",

Nnamdipapa:
How do you know you have "God's own?",

It's subjective but I can offer you the general objective idea🙃.

Gabrielshow24:
😂😂😂 Lovely, my frenemy🤣 has done it again. You always make me laugh, I respect our interactions. I see from your perspective, even beyond what your brain can put into words, but I have ’extra’—I have God's own as well😁👌 . That's the difference between us!

You have extra imagination to dream up spiritual stores of snow and hail. LoLz.

A full grown adult will believe this kind of twaddle. I guess it is the cognitive dissonance at work.

Nnamdipapa:
Magic is another word for supernatural. So, go back and read again slowly.

Clearly people believe in many absurd fairy-tales - much of which is religious.
But dont you think beyond all of this, there remains the deep and enigmatic philosophical question as to why and how reality, this universe and this world exist in the first place?

DeepSight:
Clearly people believe in many absurd fairy-tales - much of which is religious.
But dont you think beyond all of this, there remains the deep and enigmatic philosophical question as to why and how reality, this universe and this world exist in the first place?

I agree and I would direct the same philosophical question as to how the so called God came to exist if he ever does.

Nnamdipapa:
I agree and I would direct the same philosophical question as to how the so called God came to exist if he ever does.

Have you considered that whatever the root factor of reality is, it must be eternal, self existent and uncreated?

DeepSight:
Have you considered that whatever the root factor of reality is, it must be eternal, self existent and uncreated?

That would be fallacious my friend, if you agree that everything in existence must have an origin and, if you believe there is a god somewhere, there is no proof of eternal and self-existence attributes.

You cannot pick and choose your positions in these things.

Nnamdipapa:
That would be fallacious my friend, if you agree that everything in existence must have an origin and, if you believe there is a god somewhere, there is no proof of eternal and self-existence attributes.

You cannot pick and choose your positions in these things.

It is not fallacious in the least.

Lets start slowly.

1. If we agree that everything that begins to exist must have a cause, then the universe must have a cause.

2. The universe had a beginning.

3. The universe had a cause.

4. If there is an infinite regress of causes, nothing could possibly exist.

The above premises are the first steps in the proper thought development. I urge you to note particularly the words I have put in bold. They are critical and cardinal.

When we are able to move past these premises, I will suggest two factors or elements which are necessarily self-existent and uncreated.
These will include eternal time and infinite space.

DeepSight:
It is not fallacious in the least.

Lets start slowly.

1. If we agree that everything that begins to exist must have a cause, then the universe must have a cause.

2. The universe had a beginning.

3. The universe had a cause.

4. If there is an infinite regress of causes, nothing could possibly exist.

The above premises are the first steps in the proper thought development. I urge you to note particularly the words I have put in bold. They are critical and cardinal.

When we are able to move past these premises, I will suggest two factors or elements which are necessarily self-existent and uncreated.
These will include eternal time and infinite space.

The local presentation of this universe had a beginning, we don't know what was before that presentation started or if it even makes sense to ask the question. To now jump from that to therefore there is an eternal, self existent and uncreated thing that created the universe is such a leap it requires a faster than light speed jump to make

LordReed:
The local presentation of this universe had a beginning, we don't know what was before that presentation started or if it even makes sense to ask the question. To now jump from that to therefore there is an eternal, self existent and uncreated thing that created the universe is such a leap it requires a faster than light speed jump to make

At the end, he will need to take from the Bible to justify the eternal and self-exitent attributes of his European god because I have never seen logic justifying such attributes.

LordReed:
The local presentation of this universe had a beginning

You have to work with what we have. To assume into the equation a larger-verse than that is not only unnecessary but will frankly fall into my hands and work towards my argument that there must be space into which this universe is expanding.

we don't know what was before that presentation started

Of course no one knows and I have never pretended to. However logical inferences needn't be proscribed - as I said to thehomer, while we dont know what dark matter consists of, we have since inferred the existence of dark matter.

or if it even makes sense to ask the question.

This is a huge cop out common among scientists trying force a strict materialist orthodoxy down our throats. It makes sense to ask the question because the initial expansion was an event and an event can only occur in a timeline.

To now jump from that to therefore there is an eternal, self existent and uncreated thing that created the universe is such a leap it requires a faster than light speed jump to make

I am not jumping. I do not jump. Its a step by step process of reasoning and it takes patience, intellectual honesty and the willingness to admit it when one runs into indecipherable log-jams - which I have often and still do run into.

We all must be humble in this matter.

LordReed:
See they have started arriving. Mr Spiritual store of snow and hail. Bwahahahahahaha.

What is the difference between the Santa Claus North Pole and your spiritual store of snow? Joker.

Who will see this and not know datturtheevil?

Nnamdipapa:
1....
Final thoughts, whether it is God or Santa Claus, both are characters you were told to believe in without evidence, rewarded for faith, and warned of punishments if you doubt. The only difference is that you grow out of Santa Claus, and many never grow out of God.

Yet when you people are about to die you people start shaking and sweating praying to God for forgiveness.

Dtruthspeaker:
Yet when you people are about to die you people start shaking and sweating praying to God for forgiveness.

You have to actually contribute meaningfully to the topic or wait for others to chip in while you watch.

Nnamdipapa:
At the end, he will need to take from the Bible to justify the eternal and self-exitent attributes of his European god because I have never seen logic justifying such attributes.

Naa, DeepSight is not a Bible thumper. I would say he is a deist but I dunno if he uses that label for himself.

DeepSight:
You have to work with what we have. To assume into the equation a larger-verse than that is not only unnecessary but will frankly fall into my hands and work towards my argument that there must be space into which this universe is expanding.

Yes indeed we should work with we have and what we have is zero knowledge of the conditions preceding that local presentation. All we know is something has always existed.

Of course no one knows and I have never pretended to. However logical inferences needn't be proscribed - as I said to thehomer, while we dont know what dark matter consists of, we have since inferred the existence of dark matter.

We inferred it by the evidence not mere speculation.

This is a huge cop out common among scientists trying force a strict materialist orthodoxy down our throats. It makes sense to ask the question because the initial expansion was an event and an event can only occur in a timeline.

Again it is what the evidence sugggests. If you dispute it then let's see your own evidence to the contrary.

I am not jumping. I do not jump. Its a step by step process of reasoning and it takes patience, intellectual honesty and the willingness to admit it when one runs into indecipherable log-jams - which I have often and still do run into.

But you are. You've made a leap from exactly zero knowledge and zero evidence to certainty.

We all must be humble in this matter.

The one who says I don't know but I am open to learning is the humble one.

LordReed:
We inferred it by the evidence not mere speculation.

Let me hear you well. You are saying that -

1. When one says that a thing cannot expand if there is no space to expand into - that is speculation?

2. That events can occur outside a timeline?

Nnamdipapa:
At the end, he will need to take from the Bible to justify the eternal and self-exitent attributes of his European god because I have never seen logic justifying such attributes.

I still await your response and FYI not only am I non religious but I hold the Abrahamic religions in particular in great contempt.

LordReed:
Naa, DeepSight is not a Bible thumper. I would say he is a deist but I dunno if he uses that label for himself.

I used to call myself deist ("a rational and intuitive deist" were my specific words, lol) in my early Nairaland days. I have since tired of all labels especially as this thing we call reality is just an utter enigma. I can no longer specifically tell if even the deist god I evisioned back then exists. At a philosophical level, I still grapple with existential thoughts everyday and remain very humble and teachable in this regard.

DeepSight:
Let me hear you well. You are saying that -

1. When one says that a thing cannot expand if there is no space to expand into - that is speculation?

2. That events can occur outside a timeline?

I was referring to dark matter. As for the starting conditions we have no evidence beyond the breakdown of all the physical laws as we know them as we extrapolate mathematically to that start point. To form any kind of coherent framework for that requires what we don't currently have.

To answer your questions:

1. Let's put it like this: If the universe is all there is then it makes sense that it is just expanding, not expanding into something because then that something it is expanding into will also have to be considered part of the universe. So you either need to retool what you mean by universe or explain how the universe exists as separate from what it is supposedly expanding into.

2. As far as I know spacetime is a concept to explain how some unintuitive things occur and all action began with the birth of spacetime. If that is the case, then there is no way to coherently express action before there was a spacetime for the action to occur in. This is a limitation on our understanding because obviously the universe is here so there was an occurrence, but we have no way to coherently express what it could have been.

DeepSight:
I used to call myself deist ("a rational and intuitive deist" were my specific words, lol) in my early Nairaland days. I have since tired of all labels especially as this thing we call reality is just an utter enigma. I can no longer specifically tell if even the deist god I evisioned back then exists. At a philosophical level, I still grapple with existential thoughts everyday and remain very humble and teachable in this regard.

Good to know I was on the right track. I appreciate your willingness to engage and not be dogmatic.

DeepSight:
I used to call myself deist ("a rational and intuitive deist" were my specific words, lol) in my early Nairaland days. I have since tired of all labels especially as this thing we call reality is just an utter enigma. I can no longer specifically tell if even the deist god I evisioned back then exists. At a philosophical level, I still grapple with existential thoughts everyday and remain very humble and teachable in this regard.

Nnamdipapa:
You have to actually contribute meaningfully to the topic or wait for others to chip in while you watch.

I know you atheists live on thelushuns and denials but all delusions have expiry dates. And on that day, there is nothing you can do but to fall for the Truth you deny