without meaning to insulty or slight your faith, are you catholics really born again? accepting christ as your lord and not mary, and all that stuff. pls clear this perceived misconception if you can

The doctrine off being "born again" must have been very strange to the early Apostles! They were called Christians! They 19th century Evangelicals that coined the word from wrong interpretation of John 3:3 later believed that a Christian is Christian and God will judge you as one. Whoever that says he or she is a child of God must be given benifit of doubt. Shouting you are one or pesting a sticker of your Church hardly makes one a Christian.
By the way do you think Mother Theresa of Calcutta was a born again from you own definition? What do you think of Pastors Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Baker and Jim Jones that shouted their "born-again" to high heavens but ended up the other ways? I am just engaging the poster in an honest discussion devoid of religious fanaticsm or sentimentalism.

@Olrotimi:

without meaning to insulty or slight your faith, are you catholics really born again? accepting christ as your lord and not mary, and all that stuff. please clear this perceived misconception if you can

Is Jesus the Yardstick of being saved/born again? Is there a child who has more honor that his own mother? Do you know the power of the womb? Yet am not even a Christian.

Catholics are Christians, so are the offshoots who collectively call themselves Protestants. Neither has more claim to Christendom than the other! Both claim that they are worshipping God through an invented religion known as Christianity. Both add something to their worship of God. Neither worship God only. The catholics add Mother mary. The protestants add Son Jesus! Both forgot how Jesus worshipped God Almighty, his Creator. Both dis not realise that John the son of Zachariah and his father Zachariah, did not worship differently from how Jesus worshipped and no of them worshipped Jesu!

@rotimi,

rotimy:

The doctrine off being "born again" must have been very strange to the early Apostles! They were called Christians! They 19th century Evangelicals that coined the word from wrong interpretation of John 3:3

Thank you. All you needed to have done is give us the "correct" interpretation of John 3:3.

And before the 19 century, the term "born again" was actually known to the EARLY Apostles. Sample:

1 Peter 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible,
by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Peter was an apostle, and even he was not a stranger to the term "born again".

Please guys, I hope it is not so difficult a thing to ask that you look into your conscience and refrain from false assumptions.

@olabowale,

olabowale:

@Olrotimi: Is Jesus the Yardstick of being saved/born again?

Em. . . excuse me. Is Muhammad the yardstick of being saved/born again?

I am very sorry for those who ask silly questions as mirroring the unsettled hearts they have. If Muhammad is the yardstick of anything at all, certainly not the yardstick of those who are "saved". That being the case, I wonder why you try to bring up issues that Islam simply has no answers to. Please look closely into your Islam, and refrain from your incessant brigand disjointed work of trying to ridicule the faith of others, olabowale.

olabowale:

Is there a child who has more honor that his own mother? Do you know the power of the womb? Yet am not even a Christian.

One doesn't have to be a Muslim to understand the power of the womb, either. And yes, there are people who have more honour above their parents , depending on what your criteria is - go figure.

In all the honour that could be accorded Mary, we understand that ONLY Jesus is referred to as THE Messiah!! Does that alone not tell you something?

Again, Muhammad had a mother - he did not appear out of the bush. Let us ask you pointedly: Is Muhammad more honourable than his own mother - by your own arguement?

olabowale:

Catholics are Christians, so are the offshoots who collectively call themselves Protestants. Neither has more claim to Christendom than the other! Both claim that they are worshipping God through an invented religion known as Christianity. Both add something to their worship of God. Neither worship God only. The catholics add Mother mary. The protestants add Son Jesus! Both forgot how Jesus worshipped God Almighty, his Creator. Both this not realise that John the son of Zachariah and his father Zachariah, did not worship differently from how Jesus worshipped and no of them worshipped Jesu!

Thank you. Now dig this:

Islam is also riddled with more than 72 sects - all of them saying VERY different things. They may claim that they ALL worship only 'Allah', but worship is also ascribed by some of these Muslims to their Imams - that is why they hold the festival of flagellating and lacerating themselves! Besides that, we know how many Muslims seek divine powers and blessings from dead men in Islam - and I have pointed that out in the threads that dealt with the idolatry among Muslims.

Islam also is the "invented religion" of Muhammad who tried to divert all issues and funnel them down into Quraish culture. Today, many Muslims are realizing the fallacies they had embraced, and that is why they have thrashed every single phobia in Muhammad's threats and protests.

Before I answer you the poster can I ask you a question? What does it mean to be born again?

Being Born again is to be born of Water(Baptism by immersion) and Spirit (Like in the day of Penticost).

Old things will have to pass away, you turn a new creation. Remeber the Kingdom of God is to be taken like a baby.

Non of these guys making a lot of noise ever read the Bible. Why will the Catholics be called born again people ? I might agree with them if they say they are born of Mary their everlasting virgin. Not even the so called POPE the Arch anti Christ know anything about being born again not to talk of these follow follow ignorant Marianist.

Ganjaseed:

Non of these guys making a lot of noise ever read the Bible. Why will the Catholics be called born again people ? I might agree with them if they say they are born of Mary their everlasting virgin. Not even the so called POPE the Arch anti Christ know anything about being born again not to talk of these follow follow ignorant Marianist.

ganjaseed, again thou hast spoken; but only after smoking ganja!

Ganjaseed:

not to talk of these follow follow ignorant Marianist.

We go see sontin for Catholic threads O! From MARIOLATRY to now MARIANIST?!?

Men there's a whole lot of topics on this same issue all over the sectoin, could you people leave catholics alone?

Have u ever attended a mass celebration in a catholic church.
First of all an opening prayer would be said, lets live out the asking of forgiveness.
After which three readings would be read from the old testament and two from the new testament.
The catholic church has three cycles year A yearB and year C
After these three years u would see that a devout catholic would have know the bible inside out.
I know that shld hav trashed that issue of bible reading.

For the MARIANIST my dears in Christ we have never and will never in our service to God worship MAry
We always sing this song

We are honoring Mary,
We are honoring
We are honoring Mary
We will never worship her,
Some people say we worship her not atall
Everybody join the chorus honor her
Honor Mary.

This is a clear indication that we are and will never worship her.
I am abig fan of her anyways.
This is because she was a virgin whom God created before time to be the Mother of His son.
So my asking her to intercede on my behalf isnt a crime atall.
She can never go to God herself, she always goes through her son and He'll take it to the Father.
Look at what happened in Canaan she asked him to turn water into wine which he did,despite the fact that His time hadnt come.

Now to the issue of been born anew.
We accept it and will always will.
All these facts I have placed here were all obtained from this same catholic church we are persecuting like this.
I try as much as possible to go to mass very day to get all these things at the tip of my fingers.

It is better we stop crucifying any denomination.

@ Uzzyan

You say you're honouring Mary, but how can you when she is dead? Why honour a dead person? What proof have you that she is alive according to Catholic teaching? Worse yet, what proof do the priests have that she is queen of heaven?

I know you will try to defend the practise of the Catholics, can you show me anywhere in the Bible where the honouring of Mary was commanded by any of the Apostles or the Lord Jesus himself?

Mary found favour with God, agreed ! and she enjoyed it very well. But can never be the mother of God nor queen of heaven. There is no queen in heaven Only a king ( Jesus) . The Bible talks about 24 elders bowing down worshiping God and saying Holy Holy. When the angel was crying seriously looking for who is worthy to open the seven seal, no one was found worthy to break it open and reveal the secret thereof except the Lion of the tribe of Judah. Not even Mary was found holy to participate in all these her name was never mention among those that seats on the throne of heaven. My question now is what kind of queen is she ? is she presiding over lower heavens ? if yes we should all understand what that means.

"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age" (see Matthew 28:16-20) .The Catholic Church has been doing this for over 2,000 years now.

Every baptised catholic is truly "born again", and does not need the cajolery of any new age preacher. Most of these preachers are deeply ignorant of the teachings of the Catholic Church. They think the Church is all about verbal reasonings and arguments.

The many false teachings of these people is enough for anyone to learn from . Rev King, David Koresh, etc are only few examples. How they manage to captivate people still amazes me.

Please, my Protestant brothers, read and digest the Cathechism of the Catholic Church (see http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm) before making these rather shallow comments and conclusions.

The theology of the Catholic church is very intense and needs to be imbibed. In the Catholic Church christianity is a way of life, not a religion, or a collection of arguments

By the way, why do the Protestants always go after the Catholics? If they are so Divinely inspired, why dont they go after the heathen and non-christians, buddhists, hindus, etc and work hard to convert them?

There is something demonic in putting serious energy in de-stabilizing the faith of an already converted christian. Does this not reduce christianity to an exercise in arguing? Where goes true/deep prayer, the virtues, love of neigbor, love of God

Protestants should mend their ways.

Let me suggest a useful activity for the Protestants. The Japanese hardly convert to Christianity (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Japan) for some reason. The Muslims, too, are there waiting to be converted.

The Divinely inspired protestants should direct their zeal to converting both the Japanese and the Muslims. The world will surely be a better place if they do.

what does born again mean? I noticed that Nigerian christians always have a big problem with denomination quite unlike Americans. I think we worship more denomination than God in Nigeria. When pentecostalism started in full bloom in Nigeria, it came like a new hope and they promised their audience something extraordinary and more enchanting than their orthodox counterparts. Isn't that politics in religion? what happened decades after that? more and more scandals in churches especially the HOLY PENTECOSTALS. I am a pentecostal but the rate at which materialism is being worshipped in pentecostal churches today in the name of prosperity is alarming and It make me wonder whether pentecostal pastors would have agreed to go through the pains early orthodox missionaries went in evangelizing Africa. How mny of them will even agree to relocate to abeokuta or osogbon? It's always Lagos, PH, Abuja and Enugu. That is not the only cities in Nigeria that needs salvation. So, catholic, anglican or pentecostal, you have better things to do in the christendom than stay here and draw your lips. Oyo state needs evangelism because christianity is dying there.

posted By imhotep:

By the way, why do the Protestants always go after the Catholics? If they are so Divinely inspired, why don't they go after the heathen and non-christians, buddhists, hindus, etc and work hard to convert them?

There is something demonic in putting serious energy in de-stabilizing the faith of an already converted christian. Does this not reduce christianity to an exercise in arguing? Where goes true/deep prayer, the virtues, love of neigbor, love of God
Protestants should mend their ways.

Biggest thumbs imhotep. My pastor back in Naija those days will dedicate a whole sunday talking about romn catholicism that does not care whether they exist. i think this is more of an envy going on here. What positive thing has the pentecostals done for Nigerians except fighting for money, rituals and duping Benny Hinn $4m in the name of crusade and exposing us all over the internet. Catholics obviously have money more than all thepentecostals in Nigeria together but instead of buying private jets, they build schools or hospitals yet these riffraffs will not let them be. I hope that y'all know that claiming 'born again' does not translate to going to heaven? You can claim to be Jesus' first son or wife for all I care but your sins must find you out. Enough of these bullshit.

hotfunmi:

what does born again mean? I noticed that Nigerian christians always have a big problem with denomination quite unlike Americans. I think we worship more denomination than God in Nigeria. When pentecostalism started in full bloom in Nigeria, it came like a new hope and they promised their audience something extraordinary and more enchanting than their orthodox counterparts. Isn't that politics in religion? what happened decades after that? more and more scandals in churches especially the HOLY PENTECOSTALS. I am a pentecostal but the rate at which materialism is being worshipped in pentecostal churches today in the name of prosperity is alarming and It make me wonder whether pentecostal pastors would have agreed to go through the pains early orthodox missionaries went in evangelizing Africa. How mny of them will even agree to relocate to abeokuta or osogbon? It's always Lagos, PH, Abuja and Enugu. That is not the only cities in Nigeria that needs salvation. So, catholic, anglican or pentecostal, you have better things to do in the christendom than stay here and draw your lips. Oyo state needs evangelism because christianity is dying there.

Well spoken, i always wonder why we spend so much time discussing other peoples doctrine and beliefs and neglect the core things we are suppose to do which is savings souls.

@Uzzyman,

Uzzyan:

For the MARIANIST my dears in Christ we have never and will never in our service to God worship MAry

I'm not so sure that you really know what you are talking about. I have tried to restrain myself from furthering this discussion; but please, please, and please, do NOT make statements that you have no clues about.

Catholics HAVE ALWAYS WORSHIPPED [size=14pt]MARY[/size] . . . until many Catholics began to complain under pressure from being challenged by especially Protestants!

I have hinted that Catholics should PLEASE go and sit down and read through their archives and discover what the POPES and BISHOPS have boldly stated about their Catholic worship to MARY. Have you guys done that? When I was pushed to post something, this was the small one I posted in another thread:

---

@topic: Do Catholics actually Worship Mary Mother Of Jesus


Worshipping MARY - did YOU know?

E[/b]xcerpts from the "[b]Fulgens Corona" Encyclical of [size=14pt]Pope Pius XII[/size]:

[center][list]

34. But let this holy city of Rome be the first to give the example, this city which [size=16pt]from the earliest Christian era worshipped the heavenly mother, its patroness, with a special devotion[/size]. As all know, there are many sacred edifices here, in which she is proposed for the devotion of the Roman people; but the greatest without doubt is the Liberian Basilica, in which the mosaics of Our predecessor of pious memory, Sixtus III, still glisten, an outstanding monument to the Divine maternity of the Virgin Mary, and in which the "salvation of the Roman people" (Salus Populi Romani) benignly smiles. Thither especially let the suppliant citizens flock, and before that most sacred image let all put forth pious prayers, imploring especially that Rome, which is the principal city of the Catholic world, may also give the lead in Faith, in piety and in sanctity.

[/list][/center]

[list]Source: "Fulgens Corona" - Encyclical of Pope Pius XII [from a Vatican website].[/list]

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

My small kweshun now is: IS there proof or not that the Popes have indicated that they WORSHIP Mary - "heavenly mother"?

---

For Catholics to claim that they have NEVER and will NEVER worship MARY is simply to pretend that the FACTS have been forgotten only too soon!

Bla bla bla bla
question is who is a born again?
im yet to hear another phrase that has been so abused!
if you happen to know the definition of that phrase, pray tell are you one?

Catholics worship Mary, Catholics are demons, Catholics are anti-Christ,
since some of us are bible scholars and can tell how best to worship God
how has it impacted in your life?
the life of your family and friends?
the environment?

at the end it is just : bla bla bla bla

viee:

Bla bla bla bla
question is who is a born again?
im yet to hear another phrase that has been so abused!
if you happen to know the definition of that phrase, pray tell are you one?

Catholics worship Mary, Catholics are demons, Catholics are anti-Christ,
since some of us are bible scholars and can tell how best to worship God
how has it impacted in your life?
the life of your family and friends?
the environment?

at the end it is just : bla bla bla bla

@viee,

There's no need for your over-reactions. If you were getting unsettled from what was posting just previosuly to yours, then I would have hoped to see how you guys corrected Uzzyman. FACTS are there - Catholics HAVE WORSHIPPED MARY!!

Talk about impact of Biblical truth upon people's lives - if it was not for the fact that the same Biblical trutjhs forced Catholics to start questioning their own doctrines on MARIOLATRY, not many of you would have been able to stand in public to deny that Catholics worship MARY. WHY? Because the heresy would still have continued unabated - and no one would argue against the FACT.

That is what IMPACT truly is. Because these Biblical truths were been impressed upon Catholics, that is why so many of them made a push to hide the fact about their worshipping MARY.

Uzzys response dsnt need more clarification at all
i couldnt have written what she wrote beta.

my post on the other just took it a step further.
if you see it as over reaction, fine
it will make sense to pple who want it to make sense to them

@viee,

Please, this New Year, no be fight. This is what I simply wanted to point out in Uzzyman's:

Uzzyan:

For the MARIANIST my dears in Christ we have never and will never in our service to God worship MAry

My rejoinder was simply to point out that he was stating a false idea. Is that not simple enough?

If you were making any sense at all, what held you back from logically following through with your concluding statements here:

viee:

Bla bla bla bla
. . .

at the end it is just : bla bla bla bla

At the end, it is NOT just bla bla bla.

Please have the decency of acknowledging very simple issues. That way, it makes sense readily to readers, and not your wishing that it could be when you haven't made any sense.

All the same, don't get your feathers ruffled. It's a small world.

Cheers.

Deranged cultist, why all the confussion and madness. religion is pure madness i must say. Christianity is just a mixture of different cults. keep deluding your selves trying to prove which cult is better than the other.

@mazaje,

How body?

Isn't it ironical that something is actually troubling you? Why all the unnecessary over-reaction if you are at peace with yourself?

pilgrim.1:

@Uzzyman,

I'm not so sure that you really know what you are talking about. I have tried to restrain myself from furthering this discussion; but please, please, and please, do NOT make statements that you have no clues about.

Catholics HAVE ALWAYS WORSHIPPED [size=14pt]MARY[/size] . . . until many Catholics began to complain under pressure from being challenged by especially Protestants!

I have hinted that Catholics should PLEASE go and sit down and read through their archives and discover what the POPES and BISHOPS have boldly stated about their Catholic worship to MARY. Have you guys done that? When I was pushed to post something, this was the small one I posted in another thread:

---

@topic: Do Catholics actually Worship Mary Mother Of Jesus


Worshipping MARY - did YOU know?

E[/b]xcerpts from the "[b]Fulgens Corona" Encyclical of [size=14pt]Pope Pius XII[/size]:

[center][list][/list][/center]

[list]Source: "Fulgens Corona" - Encyclical of Pope Pius XII [from a Vatican website].[/list]

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

My small kweshun now is: IS there proof or not that the Popes have indicated that they WORSHIP Mary - "heavenly mother"?

---

For Catholics to claim that they have NEVER and will NEVER worship MARY is simply to pretend that the FACTS have been forgotten only too soon!

pilgrim, pilgrim:

have seen these so many times my head spins.

nothing new for this new year

@carlosein,

Carlosein:

pilgrim, pilgrim:

have seen these so many times my head spins.

nothing new for this new year

Lol. . . I know it was a repeat - and I said so before:

pilgrim.1:

. . .When I was pushed to post something, this was the small one I posted in another thread:

Like I also said, this na New Year! I no wan lose my love for my darling lawyer. He has warned me that any rascal innuendoes from me this year - e go just pack my load and throway me outside im doormot! You will not like that to happen to madam bloviate, would you?!?

pilgrim.1:

@carlosein,

Lol. . . I know it was a repeat - and I said so before:

Like I also said, this na New Year! I no wan lose my love for my darling lawyer. He has warned me that any rascal innuendoes from me this year - e go just pack my load and throway me outside im doormot! You will not like that to happen to madam bloviate, would you?!?

no i would not. but lawyer is first my brother before you are my sister-in-law, so if you say our family practices mariolatry (why do i always have difficulty typing this ), then we will have to sanction you

nwys, hope you are cool.

@Carlosein,

Carlosein:

no i would not. but lawyer is first my brother before you are my sister-in-law, so if you say our family practices mariolatry (why do i always have difficulty typing this ), then we will have to sanction you

Lol. . . let him decide for himself. A man marries his wife - not his brother. And he that findeth a wife findeth a good thing and obtaineth favour of the LORD (Prov. 18:22) whereas a brother is born for adversity (Prov. 17:17)!!

Compare them!

Carlosein:

nwys, hope you are cool.

Well, I never see lawyer since una drag am commot for New Year celebrations. I wonder when he go gee me shout for phone sef!

Okay, I cool!!

Well, I never see lawyer since una drag am commot for New Year celebrations. I wonder when he go gee me shout for phone sef!

Okay, I cool!!

ha see woman first she complain, then she say she cool. abeg i go take am say you cool no whining about my brother