₦airaland Forum

Idaytesj29:
Don't worry, God will scatter them again. They get a second chance and have blew it. This time they will be scattered, well scattered that gathering will be impossible. If they are the Gods chosen, they won't be scattered in the first place 😂

The next scatter is Amalgedon,the thing go touch so many countries
Nuclear bombs and hydrogen bomb will be flying in the sky,
So Israel is prepared for next Hitler or Roman in which ever form
And mind you God chastise those he love as sons, it's only a bastard that a father will leave alone without correction

DeepSight:
There is nothing personal. I dont know you. But you have already shown duplicity in both saying that the Palestinians should simply leave (to where, heaven knows) and then claiming that Israel is willing to accept them into Israel. It is more than clear to me where you stand and I also don't believe that you have the knowledge necessary for this discussion.

You expect me to stand where you stand before you believe I have enough knowledge necessary for the topic? So funny.
I said Palestinians should leave Israel alone.
Israel gave them jobs and accomidation to live and work in Israel but they were throwing bombs, shooting and killing Israelis.

Go and read Quran Chapter 5 vs 20-22 and see what Allah said about the land of Israel . ]

mikeapollo:
You expect me to stand where you stand before you believe I have enough knowledge necessary for the topic? So funny.
I said Palestinians should leave Israel alone.
Israel gave them jobs and accomidation to live and work in Israel but they were throwing bombs, shooting and killing Israelis.

Go and read Quran Chapter 5 vs 20-22 and see what Allah said about the land of Israel . ]

The bold is evidence of your duplicity. That is not what you said. You said they should leave the land and find somewhere else to live. That is ethnic cleansing. "Leave Israel alone" has an entirely different meaning and you know it.

The red is beyond disingenous. Someone above, IdaytesJ29, urged you not to tell naked lies.

As for the Quoran, you cannot teach me about what a barbaric book it is. I know it is. Just as the Old Testament of the Bible which the Jews subscribe to is equally barbaric. These are terrible religions which have very lamentable moral codes in certain matters. I am not a religious person. But for you, Israel are God's people and God has promised them the land. I dont believe in any such thing.

That belief is what is at the root of your total support for Israel. And in that, you dont even care that they reject your Christ.

DeepSight:
If you think this is about those hostages you have not even started.

They should release all the hostage first so that that thing you think is the reason can be much clearer na.

PepeXKermit:
So 1200 lives is equal to 60k palestinian lives abi? This injustice you people are cheering on will reach your doorstep one day.. besides, go and read about the hannibal directive where those 1200 numbers only 500-600 of them were actually killed by hamas, the rest was the IDF.

But aside the 1200, they are still holding on to hostages.
Let's assume someone you are stronger than and have the means to crush kidnapped your child (God forbid), won't you pull down anything blocking your way until you get your child?

HydraFeeds:
Before Oct 7th ,there are thousands of Palestinians being held hostage/prisoner in Israel without negotiation or court hearing for their release ,what type of behaviour is that ?

Before Oct 7th,Israel has been killing children and women ,what type of behaviour is that ?

When Israel in the Bible destroyed people because they served a different God ,what type of behaviour is that ?

When Israel destroyed Jericho unprovoked,what of behaviour is that ?

Should Nigeria government begin to kill all Igbos because IPOB attacked Nigeria interests? Or kill or Fulanis because of Fulani herdsmen or all Kanuris because of Boko Haram?

Gazans were all in support, celebrating the killings and rape of children and women by Hamas, they are complicit...though I pity the ignorant children born into this evil, diabolical, extremists ideology Hamas follows.

mikeapollo:
Okay, fine.
People can go and collect the land from whom God says ''I have given the land to......'', and who says ''God has given the land unto me'' ...... and let's see their argument and reality.

You know quite well that the Jews were driven from the land by the Romans in 70AD and scattered across Europe. So you prefer they stay away so they can lose their land and never come back to the land of their great ancestors! Interesting1

This guy you're engaging will defend the fulanis herdsmen displacing indigenous people in Nigeria when the indigenes come back to fight for their land in the future.
Stop entertaining him

DeepSight:
I repeat for emphasis: "God gave it to me" is not an argument on land matters. Not now, not before, not ever and not anywhere. Anyone frankly can say the same thing.



That is not my position. My position is that there must be equity among the peoples dwelling there. Posession of land is determined by length and originality of stay. Arabs have been there for over a thousand years. No one can argue that they are alien to the land. Jews have already taken the majority of the land. Do you have any idea how tiny Gaza is? Let me give you a practical example. It is less than four times the third mainland bridge in length. And yet it is barricaded and controlled by Israel as though the people there are dogs in a cage.

How about West Bank? The Istaeli's have populated it with ever increasing illegal settlements (illegal as declared by the UN - Mind you, Israel is a creation of the UN). Every attempt at Platestinian Statehood is blocked by Israel and the US.

Live and let live. You are the bigger power. You have the biggest power in the world behind you. These people have nothing. Share equitably. That is my position. But as long as you wish to imprison them, occupy them, snatch the little land they have left, you will never find peace.

Was there not a time Israel offered this two state solution and the Palestinians rejected it?

DeepSight:
The bold is evidence of your duplicity. That is not what you said. You said they should leave the land and find somewhere else to live. That is ethnic cleansing. "Leave Israel alone" has an entirely different meaning and you know it.

The red is beyond disingenous. Someone above, IdaytesJ29, urged you not to tell naked lies.

As for the Quoran, you cannot teach me about what a barbaric book it is. I know it is. Just as the Old Testament of the Bible which the Jews subscribe to is equally barbaric. These are terrible religions which have very lamentable moral codes in certain matters. I am not a religious person. But for you, Israel are God's people and God has promised them the land. I dont believe in any such thing.

That belief is what is at the root of your total support for Israel. And in that, you dont even care that they reject your Christ.

Please show me where I specifically said the Palestinians should find somewhere else to live.. I have not said so. But by their conduct, attitude and actions of trying to forcefully take Israel's and destroy it, if things continue like this, it may come to such a situation.
The Bible and Quran are not just religious books. They also contain records and evidence for good reference. The fight between Israel and the Palestinians is still going on because the people have deliberately refused to refer to the evidence and record in both books as a guide.

HAMAS IS EVIL AND WICKED.. IT MUST SURRENDER AND QUIT GAZA. THE LORD WATCHES OVER THE RIGHTEOUS BUT THE WICKED SHALL PERISH.

dederocs:
Gazans were all in support, celebrating the killings and rape of children and women by Hamas, they are complicit...though I pity the ignorant children born into this evil, diabolical, extremists ideology Hamas follows.

You didn't answer my questions but deflected .

That being said , several Igbos support IPOB ,should all Igbos be killed because IPOB attacked Nigeria interests?

Fulanis support Fulani herdsmen,should all Fulanis be killed because of Fulani herdsmen?

HydraFeeds:
You didn't answer my questions but deflected .

That being said , several Igbos support IPOB ,should all Igbos be killed because IPOB attacked Nigeria interests?

Fulanis support Fulani herdsmen,should all Fulanis be killed because of Fulani herdsmen?

All are rabid heads no love or empathy for rabid heads.

dederocs:
All are rabid heads no love or empathy for rabid heads.

Don't cry fowl when the table change.

HydraFeeds:
Don't cry fowl when the table change.

Table has been changing since the days of ottoman barbarians.

dederocs:
Table has been changing since the days of ottoman barbarians.

You're wrong ,but since the time of the Assyrians .

DeepSight:
Hi Unbiased1. Pleased to read from you. At a glance, you are thankfully much better informed than the dross I have had to contend with all day on this matter. I can also sense that you are articulate and set out your views in a logical sequence. I am delighted to meet you.

I will take my time probably during the night to revert in detail.

However before I do so, I want to assure myself of something, so that it doesnt simply turn out to be a waste of time. So let me ask a few questions designed to see if you are open minded on the matter or one of those whose mind will not change regardless of what is presented.

1. Do you believe that the Jews are God's chosen people and the "Holy Land" is theirs by right of Divine appointment and covenant?

2. Do you believe that Palestinians have a right to sovereignty of their own?

3. Do you believe that there have been wrongs on both sides?

These will assist in locating your open mindedness on a spectrum and determining the usefulness of proceeding.

Many thanks.

Question 1: Do you believe that the Jews are God's chosen people and the "Holy Land" is theirs by right of Divine appointment and covenant?
People view the issue in Palestine either from a religious point or a historic point of view. I view things more from a historical point of view, which I think is rich enough to defend my support for Israel. This does not mean that those who view things from a religious point of view are totally wrong, especially when it's clear that we are dealing with a terrorist group that started this war, not to create a Palestinian state, but to achieve Jihad based on what was issued in their religious book. Also, we can't completely rule out the religious books, as those books document actual historical events. So do I think Jews are God's chosen people, hell YES. In my own tradition, I'm also a special person. As long as you believe in the Jewish God, then YES, the Jews are the chosen people of their God, as boldly written in the Torah and Old Testament, but for the sake of Logic, let's leave out the religious views and focus only on the historical point of view.

Question 2: Do you believe that Palestinians have a right to sovereignty of their own?
All indigenous people have the right to self-determination. The Jews sought self-determination in 1937, but it was rejected by the Arabs. The Jews sought self-determination in 1947/1948, but it was once again rejected by the Arabs. This time around, the Arabs declared war and lost. The Palestinians have the right to sovereignty, but they are fully responsible for their lack of independence today. The Arabs had gotten Jordan, which was 78% of Palestine. The British banned Jews from settling there, and so Jordan was 100% Arab. The UN proceeded to split the remaining 22% in half in 1947, giving 56% of it to the Jews and 44% to the Arabs. This was the best for the Arabs to accept their independence in peace, but they chose war instead. After they lost the war, they had 20 years, from 1948 - 1967, to declare their independence, but they instead prepared for another war, a war that changed the region forever.

Question 3: Do you believe that there have been wrongs on both sides?
You are right to claim that there have been wrongs on both sides. No one is above mistakes. There will always be miscalculations.

Owologbo:
This guy you're engaging will defend the fulanis herdsmen displacing indigenous people in Nigeria when the indigenes come back to fight for their land in the future.
Stop entertaining him

My guy, I tire ooo.
Thanks jare

DeepSight:
I have to also ask - in this - do you mean wipe out the threat in the sense of wiping out Hamas, or perhaps creating a situation where the threat somehow ends diplomatically or some other sense in terms of the threat

OR -

Do you mean exterminate all Palestinians.

For an issue that has lasted 77 years with no end in sight, one party surely has to give way for the other to have peace. A report released early this year showed that of the 17,000 Hamas members killed by Israel, Hamas has successfully replaced them with recruits. Where did the recruits come from? You guessed right, the "peaceful and innocent civilians". We are looking for a savage group of people who teach their children the benefits of death (martyrdom), the need to kill the Jews and reclaim Al Quds (Jerusalem), etc. We are looking at a society filled mainly with savage extremists, a people who trooped out to celebrate the 9/11 World Trade Centre attack in the US, a people who joined Hamas to kidnap innocent Israelis at a music festival, some of them held these captives hostage in their homes. CCTV footage from different homes in Southern Israel showed Palestinian civilians assaulting Israeli citizens, ransacking homes and looting properties alongside fully kitted Hamas fighters, those who poured out on the streets to celebrate while Hamas paraded the naked body of an Israeli girl taken from the music festival and raped and beaten to death. Earlier this year, Hamas fighters brought out the coffins of the Bibas family, consisting of 2 dead babies and their mother, and we saw these savages called Palestinians celebrate, including Palestinian teenagers, all celebrating as Hamas paraded the coffins of 2 babies and their mother after previously killing their dad.

At what point does Israel say, "Enough is enough"? It's either they go or we go. At this point, Israel can't exterminate all the Palestinians, but Israel can set a deterrence and cut off all relations with the Palestinians, including a total migration ban on all of them. Palestinians should no longer be allowed into Israel, either for work, healthcare, or any other reason. The bombardments taking place in Gaza are well deserved and should continue until Hamas surrenders. I refuse to cry more than the bereaved. If Hamas doesn't care about its own people, I also don't care about them. A former Prime Minister of Israel once said, "Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.", Golda Meir.

Unbiased1:
A former Prime Minister of Israel once said, "Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.", Golda Meir.

Do you also know that two former Prime Ministers of Israel have called what Israel is currently doing a genocide?

Anyway no matter. You will probably call that politcal.

I doubt you will ever see the other side of the matter but I will present my take nonetheless later.

Unbiased1:
Question 1: Do you believe that the Jews are God's chosen people and the "Holy Land" is theirs by right of Divine appointment and covenant?
People view the issue in Palestine either from a religious point or a historic point of view. I view things more from a historical point of view, which I think is rich enough to defend my support for Israel. This does not mean that those who view things from a religious point of view are totally wrong, especially when it's clear that we are dealing with a terrorist group that started this war, not to create a Palestinian state, but to achieve Jihad based on what was issued in their religious book. Also, we can't completely rule out the religious books, as those books document actual historical events. So do I think Jews are God's chosen people, hell YES. In my own tradition, I'm also a special person. As long as you believe in the Jewish God, then YES, the Jews are the chosen people of their God, as boldly written in the Torah and Old Testament, but for the sake of Logic, let's leave out the religious views and focus only on the historical point of view.

Question 2: Do you believe that Palestinians have a right to sovereignty of their own?
All indigenous people have the right to self-determination. The Jews sought self-determination in 1937, but it was rejected by the Arabs. The Jews sought self-determination in 1947/1948, but it was once again rejected by the Arabs. This time around, the Arabs declared war and lost. The Palestinians have the right to sovereignty, but they are fully responsible for their lack of independence today. The Arabs had gotten Jordan, which was 78% of Palestine. The British banned Jews from settling there, and so Jordan was 100% Arab. The UN proceeded to split the remaining 22% in half in 1947, giving 56% of it to the Jews and 44% to the Arabs. This was the best for the Arabs to accept their independence in peace, but they chose war instead. After they lost the war, they had 20 years, from 1948 - 1967, to declare their independence, but they instead prepared for another war, a war that changed the region forever.

Question 3: Do you believe that there have been wrongs on both sides?
You are right to claim that there have been wrongs on both sides. No one is above mistakes. There will always be miscalculations.

My brother, they would not believe in your analyses and facts once the prognoses do not support their expectation and jaundiced bias. They formulate and set up lies, believe in the lies, and parrot them expecting others to be gullible and naive enough to gulp them hook, line and sinker. When one insists on the bitter truth, they start throwing insults and calling one derogatory names.
If you ask them to provide the chronology and names of kings who had ruled over the contested land to confirm which side had superior historical sovereignty over it, they cannot mention one name , yet there is a long list of Kings of Israel who had ruled over Judea and Samaria, Hebron, Jerusalem, Bethlehem, Beersheba etc, and they still claim the land does not belong to Israel.

Unbiased1:
At this point, Israel can't exterminate all the Palestinians

If they could, would you support such?

Unbiased1:
For an issue that has lasted 77 years with no end in sight, one party surely has to give way for the other to have peace. A report released early this year showed that of the 17,000 Hamas members killed by Israel, Hamas has successfully replaced them with recruits. Where did the recruits come from? You guessed right, the "peaceful and innocent civilians". We are looking for a savage group of people who teach their children the benefits of death (martyrdom), the need to kill the Jews and reclaim Al Quds (Jerusalem), etc. We are looking at a society filled mainly with savage extremists, a people who trooped out to celebrate the 9/11 World Trade Centre attack in the US, a people who joined Hamas to kidnap innocent Israelis at a music festival, some of them held these captives hostage in their homes. CCTV footage from different homes in Southern Israel showed Palestinian civilians assaulting Israeli citizens, ransacking homes and looting properties alongside fully kitted Hamas fighters, those who poured out on the streets to celebrate while Hamas paraded the naked body of an Israeli girl taken from the music festival and raped and beaten to death. Earlier this year, Hamas fighters brought out the coffins of the Bibas family, consisting of 2 dead babies and their mother, and we saw these savages called Palestinians celebrate, including Palestinian teenagers, all celebrating as Hamas paraded the coffins of 2 babies and their mother after previously killing their dad.

At what point does Israel say, "Enough is enough"? It's either they go or we go. At this point, Israel can't exterminate all the Palestinians, but Israel can set a deterrence and cut off all relations with the Palestinians, including a total migration ban on all of them. Palestinians should no longer be allowed into Israel, either for work, healthcare, or any other reason. The bombardments taking place in Gaza are well deserved and should continue until Hamas surrenders. I refuse to cry more than the bereaved. If Hamas doesn't care about its own people, I also don't care about them. A former Prime Minister of Israel once said, "Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.", Golda Meir.

Their propaganda machine and media would tell you that 62,000 "Palestinians" have been killed by IDF in the war. So all the dead are described as "innocent Palestinians" including Hamas terrorists who were gunned down in battle. They call those savage Hamas terrorists "innocent Palestinians"! Can you believe that?!
That should tell you the reckless lies designed to mislead people.

mikeapollo:
Their propaganda machine and media would tell you that 62,000 "Palestinians" have been killed by IDF in the war. So all the dead are described as "innocent Palestinians" including Hamas terrorists who were gunned down in battle. They call those savage Hamas terrorists "innocent Palestinians"! Can you believe that?!
That should tell you the reckless lies designed to mislead people.

I honestly don't care about their propaganda. As long as Hamas continues to exist and is still holding the hostages, let Palestinians continue to suffer.

Idaytesj29:
Thank you for following the discussion with unbiased mind. Infact, majority of our Nigerian Christians are pathetic. Imagine what comes out of their mouth?

It is simply because Islam doesn't benefit us but this religion is not a blessing to the world!

INJESUSNAME:
It is simply because Islam doesn't benefit us but this religion is not a blessing to the world!

Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion as well as faith

Unbiased1:
Question 1: Do you believe that the Jews are God's chosen people and the "Holy Land" is theirs by right of Divine appointment and covenant?
People view the issue in Palestine either from a religious point or a historic point of view. I view things more from a historical point of view, which I think is rich enough to defend my support for Israel. This does not mean that those who view things from a religious point of view are totally wrong, especially when it's clear that we are dealing with a terrorist group that started this war, not to create a Palestinian state, but to achieve Jihad based on what was issued in their religious book. Also, we can't completely rule out the religious books, as those books document actual historical events. So do I think Jews are God's chosen people, hell YES. In my own tradition, I'm also a special person. As long as you believe in the Jewish God, then YES, the Jews are the chosen people of their God, as boldly written in the Torah and Old Testament, but for the sake of Logic, let's leave out the religious views and focus only on the historical point of view.

Alright, thank you for this. However, notwithstanding that you have said we should focus only on the historical, I must emphasize that it is crucial that the religious considerations are put away in this matter. This is because religion tends to be subjective and anyone can claim their God/ god or gods gave them any given set of promises or directives. I can wake up tomorrow and say I have heard from my God that the whole Earth is the inheritance of my descendants alone and that I am mandated to exterminate everyone else. This should not be invalid because afterall, Abraham was just one man like me - if his god could speak to him and make promises to him, so can mine. I don't want to go as far as to mention all of the barbaric genocidal injunctions given by Yahweh to the Jews in the Bible, but it is worth mentioning - to establish a pattern - to show that what is happening today is not new - and thus it is not just a question of Arabs being the problem.

Historically Jews have insisted that their blood thirsty pagan mountain deity called Yahweh has issued genocidal commands to them, and it is by means of these commands that they even came to posess the so called promised land. Therefore, let us stay well away from any such religious claims for all can play that game, as indeed the Arabs and Muslims also have, through history.

Question 2: Do you believe that Palestinians have a right to sovereignty of their own?
All indigenous people have the right to self-determination. The Jews sought self-determination in 1937, but it was rejected by the Arabs. The Jews sought self-determination in 1947/1948, but it was once again rejected by the Arabs. This time around, the Arabs declared war and lost. The Palestinians have the right to sovereignty, but they are fully responsible for their lack of independence today. The Arabs had gotten Jordan, which was 78% of Palestine. The British banned Jews from settling there, and so Jordan was 100% Arab. The UN proceeded to split the remaining 22% in half in 1947, giving 56% of it to the Jews and 44% to the Arabs. This was the best for the Arabs to accept their independence in peace, but they chose war instead. After they lost the war, they had 20 years, from 1948 - 1967, to declare their independence, but they instead prepared for another war, a war that changed the region forever.

So here is what is at issue. Ownership of land is a delicate thing. The way land rights have always worked, it is simply impossible to deny the rights of an occupant who had dwelt in a place for centuries. Thus, the example of the Europeans in America I hitherto used. They travelled there, met Native Americans there - conquered them and virtually wiped them off the surface of the Earth through the gun and disease. Today, Europeans have held America for some three to four centuries. The time which has passed has bequeathed them what you may call a right of occupancy. Whether they came there justly or unjustly, the time which has passed is sufficient to render it legitimate that their descendants now dwell there rightly. Thus, even though a purist like myself may argue that if the Native Americans summon the will, the resources and the technology today and are able to push the "encroachers" out of America, it is right and fair, in all truth, too much time has passed.

In this same way, the history of the matter is that roughly two thousand years ago, the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and scattered the Jews into diaspora. They went into Persia but mostly into Europe where they suffered much persecution through the middle ages, the renaissance, the enlightenment and all the way through to the 20th century where they sufferred the holocaust.

In the intervening time, Islam had arisen in the 7th Century AD, and by the turn of the millenium the crusades had begun in which troupe after troupe of christian armies generation after generation sought to displace the Muslims from the "Holy Land." This went back and forth over a couple of centuries and the land would alternate between Islamic and Christian authority - all the time retaining a small Jewish population. I am sure you know of the great encounters between Richard the Lion Heart and Saladin. And too many more stories of that period. The long and short of it is that the presensce of Arabs in that land dates back at least one thousand years now.

And the argument I am making is that if European Americans can now consider North America their homeland after being there for a few centuries, how much more the Arabs who have been in Palestine for over a thousand years?

Now, moving on, by the time the second world war ended, I hope you know that the British had made promises to the Jews via Zionists that they would create a homeland for them in Palestine. At that time, the place was mostly occupied by Arabs like I said, for about a thousand years already. It is unreasonable to claim that it was not home to them. Besides, the European Jews who were returning had been so adulterated that one cannot really claim that they are necessarily of the same ancestry as the Israelites of old. Frankly, most of them today are noticeably white.

Nevertheless, they came back. What did you expect? Did you expect that the Arbas there would not resist? Of course they would. It is only natural. Just as if Native Americans make a come back today from tthe settlements they have been restricted to, to take up most of America, do you dare to think that the current European descendants who control that country will not fiercely resist them? Of course they will.

I have written a lot so far so let me just summarize: the point is that compromises must be made. Israel of today is a creation of the United Nations and that same United Nations has repeatedly said that the settlements in the West Bank are illegal. You keep referring to Palestinians as savages and that is absurd. It is not savage to fight to defend your land. Especially from an occupier who imposes apartheid restrictions on you the same way white people did to black people in apartheid South Africa.

You call them terrorists, but I hope you know the whites also called Nelson Mandela a terrorist? I hope you know the USA kept him on their terrorism watchlist up till 2008? What does that teach you? It shoudl teach you that those who resist European imperialism are routinely labelled terrorists - even when they are actually the victims of terrorism.

There is a historical reason both Ireland and South Africa stand solidly with Palestine - and it is because BOTH countries have experienced EXACTLY what Palestine is experiencing right now - the arrogation of power by other people and oppression in their own native lands and homes.

With due respect, no one comes back to a land after 2, 000 years to assert that he owns it because his ancestors lived there. Many different peoples ancestors have lived on the same land throughout time.

What is of particular concern today is the fact that Israel literaly cages Palestine. It controls its borders. It determines what goes in and what goes out. In the West Bank there are selected roads for Jews and selected roads for Palestinians. That is apartheid in its purest and most undeniable form. And that is a sin against the conscience of humanity.

So when many people talk all the time ignorantly saying that this started on Octover 7, with due respect, it did not. October 7 was at best a reaction against occupation. And just look at the toll. Do you want to compare 1, 200 to over 60, 000? Where is the proportionality? You have the world's biggest super power cooperating and funding to exterminate such a powerless people. How is that just? I hope you know over 145 of the members of the United Nations recognise Palestine as a state but they are still being denied statehood simply because of US veto power. And yet you yourself acknowledged the right to self determination. Today, European states which all supported Israel in this matter are moving towards recognising Palestine by next month all because of how far Israel has gone in its cruelty. It has become a sore wound on the conscience of the world. There is an extent you can go to even when you are right in a matter in which the world will turn against you when you have gone too far - not that Israel was right anyway in this. Enough said for now.

Question 3: Do you believe that there have been wrongs on both sides?
You are right to claim that there have been wrongs on both sides. No one is above mistakes. There will always be miscalculations.

In the case of Israel, there is a deliberate effort to mass murder Palestinians. Not mere miscalculations.

Let me add: Are you aware Netanyahu sponsored Hamas? You dont seem to know the game being played.

cc:

Kukutente23
Tctrills
Mikeapollo
IdaytesJ29

DeepSight:
Alright, thank you for this. However, notwithstanding that you have said we should focus only on the historical, I must emphasize that it is crucial that the religious considerations are put away in this matter. This is because religion tends to be subjective and anyone can claim their God/ god or gods gave them any given set of promises or directives. I can wake up tomorrow and say I have heard from my God that the whole Earth is the inheritance of my descendants alone and that I am mandated to exterminate everyone else. This should not be invalid because afterall, Abraham was just one man like me - if his god could speak to him and make promises to him, so can mine. I don't want to go as far as to mention all of the barbaric genocidal injunctions given by Yahweh to the Jews in the Bible, but it is worth mentioning - to establish a pattern - to show that what is happening today is not new - and thus it is not just a question of Arabs being the problem.

Historically Jews have insisted that their blood thirsty pagan mountain deity called Yahweh has issued genocidal commands to them, and it is by means of these commands that they even came to posess the so called promised land. Therefore, let us stay well away from any such religious claims for all can play that game, as indeed the Arabs and Muslims also have, through history.



So here is what is at issue. Ownership of land is a delicate thing. The way land rights have always worked, it is simply impossible to deny the rights of an occupant who had dwelt in a place for centuries. Thus, the example of the Europeans in America I hitherto used. They travelled there, met Native Americans there - conquered them and virtually wiped them off the surface of the Earth through the gun and disease. Today, Europeans have held America for some three to four centuries. The time which has passed has bequeathed them what you may call a right of occupancy. Whether they came there justly or unjustly, the time which has passed is sufficient to render it legitimate that their descendants now dwell there rightly. Thus, even though a purist like myself may argue that if the Native Americans summon the will, the resources and the technology today and are able to push the "encroachers" out of America, it is right and fair, in all truth, too much time has passed.

In this same way, the history of the matter is that roughly two thousand years ago, the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and scattered the Jews into diaspora. They went into Persia but mostly into Europe where they suffered much persecution through the middle ages, the renaissance, the enlightenment and all the way through to the 20th century where they sufferred the holocaust.

In the intervening time, Islam had arisen in the 7th Century AD, and by the turn of the millenium the crusades had begun in which troupe after troupe of christian armies generation after generation sought to displace the Muslims from the "Holy Land." This went back and forth over a couple of centuries and the land would alternate between Islamic and Christian authority - all the time retaining a small Jewish population. I am sure you know of the great encounters between Richard the Lion Heart and Saladin. And too many more stories of that period. The long and short of it is that the presensce of Arabs in that land dates back at least one thousand years now.

And the argument I am making is that if European Americans can now consider North America their homeland after being there for a few centuries, how much more the Arabs who have been in Palestine for over a thousand years?

Now, moving on, by the time the second world war ended, I hope you know that the British had made promises to the Jews via Zionists that they would create a homeland for them in Palestine. At that time, the place was mostly occupied by Arabs like I said, for about a thousand years already. It is unreasonable to claim that it was not home to them. Besides, the European Jews who were returning had been so adulterated that one cannot really claim that they are necessarily of the same ancestry as the Israelites of old. Frankly, most of them today are noticeably white.

Nevertheless, they came back. What did you expect? Did you expect that the Arbas there would not resist? Of course they would. It is only natural. Just as if Native Americans make a come back today from tthe settlements they have been restricted to, to take up most of America, do you dare to think that the current European descendants who control that country will not fiercely resist them? Of course they will.

I have written a lot so far so let me just summarize: the point is that compromises must be made. Israel of today is a creation of the United Nations and that same United Nations has repeatedly said that the settlements in the West Bank are illegal. You keep referring to Palestinians as savages and that is absurd. It is not savage to fight to defend your land. Especially from an occupier who imposes apartheid restrictions on you the same way white people did to black people in apartheid South Africa.

You call them terrorists, but I hope you know the whites also called Nelson Mandela a terrorist? I hope you know the USA kept him on their terrorism watchlist up till 2008? What does that teach you? It shoudl teach you that those who resist European imperialism are routinely labelled terrorists - even when they are actually the victims of terrorism.

There is a historical reason both Ireland and South Africa stand solidly with Palestine - and it is because BOTH countries have experienced EXACTLY what Palestine is experiencing right now - the arrogation of power by other people and oppression in their own native lands and homes.

With due respect, no one comes back to a land after 2, 000 years to assert that he owns it because his ancestors lived there. Many different peoples ancestors have lived on the same land throughout time.

What is of particular concern today is the fact that Israel literaly cages Palestine. It controls its borders. It determines what goes in and what goes out. In the West Bank there are selected roads for Jews and selected roads for Palestinians. That is apartheid in its purest and most undeniable form. And that is a sin against the conscience of humanity.

So when many people talk all the time ignorantly saying that this started on Octover 7, with due respect, it did not. October 7 was at best a reaction against occupation. And just look at the toll. Do you want to compare 1, 200 to over 60, 000? Where is the proportionality? You have the world's biggest super power cooperating and funding to exterminate such a powerless people. How is that just? I hope you know over 145 of the members of the United Nations recognise Palestine as a state but they are still being denied statehood simply because of US veto power. And yet you yourself acknowledged the right to self determination. Today, European states which all supported Israel in this matter are moving towards recognising Palestine by next month all because of how far Israel has gone in its cruelty. It has become a sore wound on the conscience of the world. There is an extent you can go to even when you are right in a matter in which the world will turn against you when you have gone too far - not that Israel was right anyway in this. Enough said for now.



In the case of Israel, there is a deliberate effort to mass murder Palestinians. Not mere miscalculations.

Let me add: Are you aware Netanyahu sponsored Hamas? You dont seem to know the game being played.

cc:

Kukutente23
Tctrills
Mikeapollo
IdaytesJ29

Israel of today is not a creation of UN.

It was created by the British Jewish lobby through the Balfour Declaration and massive military and financial support that came through for them from US and western countries. All other recognition came after

Idaytesj29:
Israel of today is not a creation of UN.

It was created by the British Jewish lobby through the Balfour Declaration and massive military and financial support that came through for them from US and western countries. All other recognition came after

Balfour Declaration was during the 1st world war, 1917.

UN played the pivotal role in creating Israel through United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181, in 1947.

DeepSight:
Alright, thank you for this. However, notwithstanding that you have said we should focus only on the historical, I must emphasize that it is crucial that the religious considerations are put away in this matter. This is because religion tends to be subjective and anyone can claim their God/ god or gods gave them any given set of promises or directives. I can wake up tomorrow and say I have heard from my God that the whole Earth is the inheritance of my descendants alone and that I am mandated to exterminate everyone else. This should not be invalid because afterall, Abraham was just one man like me - if his god could speak to him and make promises to him, so can mine. I don't want to go as far as to mention all of the barbaric genocidal injunctions given by Yahweh to the Jews in the Bible, but it is worth mentioning - to establish a pattern - to show that what is happening today is not new - and thus it is not just a question of Arabs being the problem.

Historically Jews have insisted that their blood thirsty pagan mountain deity called Yahweh has issued genocidal commands to them, and it is by means of these commands that they even came to posess the so called promised land. Therefore, let us stay well away from any such religious claims for all can play that game, as indeed the Arabs and Muslims also have, through history.



So here is what is at issue. Ownership of land is a delicate thing. The way land rights have always worked, it is simply impossible to deny the rights of an occupant who had dwelt in a place for centuries. Thus, the example of the Europeans in America I hitherto used. They travelled there, met Native Americans there - conquered them and virtually wiped them off the surface of the Earth through the gun and disease. Today, Europeans have held America for some three to four centuries. The time which has passed has bequeathed them what you may call a right of occupancy. Whether they came there justly or unjustly, the time which has passed is sufficient to render it legitimate that their descendants now dwell there rightly. Thus, even though a purist like myself may argue that if the Native Americans summon the will, the resources and the technology today and are able to push the "encroachers" out of America, it is right and fair, in all truth, too much time has passed.

In this same way, the history of the matter is that roughly two thousand years ago, the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and scattered the Jews into diaspora. They went into Persia but mostly into Europe where they suffered much persecution through the middle ages, the renaissance, the enlightenment and all the way through to the 20th century where they sufferred the holocaust.

In the intervening time, Islam had arisen in the 7th Century AD, and by the turn of the millenium the crusades had begun in which troupe after troupe of christian armies generation after generation sought to displace the Muslims from the "Holy Land." This went back and forth over a couple of centuries and the land would alternate between Islamic and Christian authority - all the time retaining a small Jewish population. I am sure you know of the great encounters between Richard the Lion Heart and Saladin. And too many more stories of that period. The long and short of it is that the presensce of Arabs in that land dates back at least one thousand years now.

And the argument I am making is that if European Americans can now consider North America their homeland after being there for a few centuries, how much more the Arabs who have been in Palestine for over a thousand years?

Now, moving on, by the time the second world war ended, I hope you know that the British had made promises to the Jews via Zionists that they would create a homeland for them in Palestine. At that time, the place was mostly occupied by Arabs like I said, for about a thousand years already. It is unreasonable to claim that it was not home to them. Besides, the European Jews who were returning had been so adulterated that one cannot really claim that they are necessarily of the same ancestry as the Israelites of old. Frankly, most of them today are noticeably white.

Nevertheless, they came back. What did you expect? Did you expect that the Arbas there would not resist? Of course they would. It is only natural. Just as if Native Americans make a come back today from tthe settlements they have been restricted to, to take up most of America, do you dare to think that the current European descendants who control that country will not fiercely resist them? Of course they will.

I have written a lot so far so let me just summarize: the point is that compromises must be made. Israel of today is a creation of the United Nations and that same United Nations has repeatedly said that the settlements in the West Bank are illegal. You keep referring to Palestinians as savages and that is absurd. It is not savage to fight to defend your land. Especially from an occupier who imposes apartheid restrictions on you the same way white people did to black people in apartheid South Africa.

You call them terrorists, but I hope you know the whites also called Nelson Mandela a terrorist? I hope you know the USA kept him on their terrorism watchlist up till 2008? What does that teach you? It shoudl teach you that those who resist European imperialism are routinely labelled terrorists - even when they are actually the victims of terrorism.

There is a historical reason both Ireland and South Africa stand solidly with Palestine - and it is because BOTH countries have experienced EXACTLY what Palestine is experiencing right now - the arrogation of power by other people and oppression in their own native lands and homes.

With due respect, no one comes back to a land after 2, 000 years to assert that he owns it because his ancestors lived there. Many different peoples ancestors have lived on the same land throughout time.

What is of particular concern today is the fact that Israel literaly cages Palestine. It controls its borders. It determines what goes in and what goes out. In the West Bank there are selected roads for Jews and selected roads for Palestinians. That is apartheid in its purest and most undeniable form. And that is a sin against the conscience of humanity.

So when many people talk all the time ignorantly saying that this started on Octover 7, with due respect, it did not. October 7 was at best a reaction against occupation. And just look at the toll. Do you want to compare 1, 200 to over 60, 000? Where is the proportionality? You have the world's biggest super power cooperating and funding to exterminate such a powerless people. How is that just? I hope you know over 145 of the members of the United Nations recognise Palestine as a state but they are still being denied statehood simply because of US veto power. And yet you yourself acknowledged the right to self determination. Today, European states which all supported Israel in this matter are moving towards recognising Palestine by next month all because of how far Israel has gone in its cruelty. It has become a sore wound on the conscience of the world. There is an extent you can go to even when you are right in a matter in which the world will turn against you when you have gone too far - not that Israel was right anyway in this. Enough said for now.



In the case of Israel, there is a deliberate effort to mass murder Palestinians. Not mere miscalculations.

Let me add: Are you aware Netanyahu sponsored Hamas? You dont seem to know the game being played.

cc:

Kukutente23
Tctrills
Mikeapollo
IdaytesJ29

Thank you for this submission and re educating us, and giving us morality and fairness on the issue. But don't be surprised, those who believed they know the begining and the end of the world and it written in their book that whatever the Jews says and do is legitimate will still dispute this and call it propaganda and or being sympathetic towards terror.

I for one don't care, Injustice is injustice whether it's done by black or white or Jew or Chinese, Christian or Muslim, I will stand for humanity, peace, equity and respect for human rights anywhere in the world. And speak against these sort of evil from the deepest part of hell happening during our life time. I believe God is watching us all.

DeepSight:
Balfour Declaration was during the 1st world war, 1917.

UN played the pivotal role in creating Israel through United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181, in 1947.

Yeah 1917, the declaration came first. Before other lobbying and support of US and Britain make it a reality.

Without US and British might, the state wouldn't have been created. And all these atrocious actions of Israel is because they know they have Western backing not any God's chosen clause or anything.
Everyone on this earth is Gods creation, loved and chosen by God. He never discriminates.