₦airaland Forum

Jashub:
I do not completely agree with this because in scripture there is evidence of children suffering for the transgressions of parents. Examples would

1. Gehazi
2. Hezekiah

gohf:
please share this "evidence" and "examples" you have and let us check if those children walked in the way of the LORD

Jashub:
There is no record of whether the children of Gehazi walked with God , but the fact still remains that Elisha pronounced a curse of the descendants of Gehazi (and I believe that curse took effect ). The same also happened when the Lord sent a prophet to Hezekiah to pronounce how his unborn descendants would be eunuchs and slaves to Babylon all because he show them the articles of the Lord and his treasures

gohf:
so you believe that Elisha's curse is greater than God's word and mercy? Even without evidence!

Now this is what is written as Israel history

Exod.20.5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me... Notice the clause of those who hate God

Now first generation the person that did wrong Hezekiah, God said SOME

2Kgs.20.18 Some of your own descendants will be taken away into exile. They will become eunuchs who will serve in the palace of Babylon's king."
2Kgs.20.21 When Hezekiah died, his son Manasseh became the next king.

Manasseh second generation, and what did he do


2Kgs.21.1 - 2
Manasseh was twelve years old when he became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem fifty-five years. His mother was Hephzibah. He did what was evil in the LORD's sight, imitating the detestable practices of the pagan nations whom the LORD had driven from the land ahead of the Israelites. This lengthy write up does not change the fact that God still punished some of the descendants of Hezekiah for their father's transgressions. Secondly, what happened to the descendants of Gehazi, and why were they punished? Kindly tell us

Here's a list
2Kgs.21.3 - He rebuilt the pagan shrines his father, Hezekiah, had destroyed. He constructed altars for Baal and set up an Asherah pole, just as King Ahab of Israel had done. He also bowed before all the forces of heaven and worshiped them.
2Kgs.21.4 - He even built pagan altars in the Temple of the LORD, the place where the LORD had said his name should be honored.
2Kgs.21.5 - He built these altars for all the forces of heaven in both courtyards of the LORD's Temple.
2Kgs.21.6 - Manasseh even sacrificed his own son in the fire. He practiced sorcery and divination, and he consulted with mediums and psychics. He did much that was evil in the LORD's sight, arousing his anger.
2Kgs.21.7 - Manasseh even took an Asherah pole he had made and set it up in the Temple, the very place where the LORD had told David and his son Solomon: "My name will be honored here forever in this Temple and in Jerusalem--the city I have chosen from among all the other tribes of Israel.
2Kgs.21.9 - But the people refused to listen, and Manasseh led them to do even more evil than the pagan nations whom the LORD had destroyed when the Israelites entered the land.
2Kgs.21.10 - Then the LORD said through his servants the prophets:
2Kgs.21.11 - "King Manasseh of Judah has done many detestable things. He is even more wicked than the Amorites, who lived in this land before Israel. He has led the people of Judah into idolatry.
2Kgs.21.12 - So this is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: I will bring such disaster on Jerusalem and Judah that the ears of those who hear about it will tingle with horror.
2Kgs.21.15 - For they have done great evil in my sight and have angered me ever since their ancestors came out of Egypt."
2Kgs.21.16 - Manasseh also murdered many innocent people until Jerusalem was filled from one end to the other with innocent blood. This was in addition to the sin that he caused the people of Judah to commit, leading them to do evil in the LORD's sight.
2Kgs.21.17 - The rest of the events in Manasseh's reign and all his deeds, including the sins he committed, are recorded in The Book of the History of the Kings of Judah.

God reaffirmed his punishment to the people of Israel who decided to follow the evil king, who next, Amon his son, third generation, what did he do

2Kgs.21.19 - Amon was twenty-two years old when he became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem two years. His mother was Meshullemeth, the daughter of Haruz from Jotbah.
2Kgs.21.20 - He did what was evil in the LORD's sight, just as his father, Manasseh, had done.
2Kgs.21.21 - He followed the example of his father, worshiping the same idols that his father had worshiped.
2Kgs.21.22 - He abandoned the LORD, the God of his ancestors, and he refused to follow the LORD's ways.

In all of this, it seems God was waiting, waiting for them to repent, anyway the people didn't repent and then came fourth generation Josiah, now the fullness of God's wrath should come down and wreck Judah but guess what. Josiah was different and nothing bad happened until he was killed and he was buried properly. Let's read it


2Kgs.23.25 - Never before had there been a king like Josiah, who turned to the LORD with all his heart and soul and strength, obeying all the laws of Moses. And there has never been a king like him since.
2Kgs.23.26 - Even so, the LORD's anger burned against Judah because of all the great evils of King Manasseh, and he did not hold back his fierce anger from them.
2Kgs.23.27 - For the LORD had said, "I will destroy Judah just as I have destroyed Israel. I will banish the people from my presence and reject my chosen city of Jerusalem and the Temple where my name was to be honored."

Notice God didn't say his anger was against Josiah, but against the people, well did they change after Josiah died.

Josiah pushed the punishment to the fifth generation

2Kgs.23.31 - Jehoahaz was twenty-three years old when he became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. His mother was Hamutal, the daughter of Jeremiah from Libnah.
2Kgs.23.32 - He did what was evil in the LORD's sight, just as his ancestors had done.

It was Jehoahaz who rebelled against Babylon, went to war, lost and got dragged away, and all that happened recorded in 2 kings 24


God is not a liar

gohf:
so you believe that Elisha's curse is greater than God's word and mercy? Even without evidence!

Now this is what is written as Israel history

Exod.20.5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me... Notice the clause of those who hate God

Now first generation the person that did wrong Hezekiah, God said SOME

2Kgs.20.18 Some of your own descendants will be taken away into exile. They will become eunuchs who will serve in the palace of Babylon's king."
2Kgs.20.21 When Hezekiah died, his son Manasseh became the next king.

Manasseh second generation, and what did he do


2Kgs.21.1 - 2
Manasseh was twelve years old when he became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem fifty-five years. His mother was Hephzibah. He did what was evil in the LORD's sight, imitating the detestable practices of the pagan nations whom the LORD had driven from the land ahead of the Israelites.

Here's a list
2Kgs.21.3 - He rebuilt the pagan shrines his father, Hezekiah, had destroyed. He constructed altars for Baal and set up an Asherah pole, just as King Ahab of Israel had done. He also bowed before all the forces of heaven and worshiped them.
2Kgs.21.4 - He even built pagan altars in the Temple of the LORD, the place where the LORD had said his name should be honored.
2Kgs.21.5 - He built these altars for all the forces of heaven in both courtyards of the LORD's Temple.
2Kgs.21.6 - Manasseh even sacrificed his own son in the fire. He practiced sorcery and divination, and he consulted with mediums and psychics. He did much that was evil in the LORD's sight, arousing his anger.
2Kgs.21.7 - Manasseh even took an Asherah pole he had made and set it up in the Temple, the very place where the LORD had told David and his son Solomon: "My name will be honored here forever in this Temple and in Jerusalem--the city I have chosen from among all the other tribes of Israel.
2Kgs.21.9 - But the people refused to listen, and Manasseh led them to do even more evil than the pagan nations whom the LORD had destroyed when the Israelites entered the land.
2Kgs.21.10 - Then the LORD said through his servants the prophets:
2Kgs.21.11 - "King Manasseh of Judah has done many detestable things. He is even more wicked than the Amorites, who lived in this land before Israel. He has led the people of Judah into idolatry.
2Kgs.21.12 - So this is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: I will bring such disaster on Jerusalem and Judah that the ears of those who hear about it will tingle with horror.
2Kgs.21.15 - For they have done great evil in my sight and have angered me ever since their ancestors came out of Egypt."
2Kgs.21.16 - Manasseh also murdered many innocent people until Jerusalem was filled from one end to the other with innocent blood. This was in addition to the sin that he caused the people of Judah to commit, leading them to do evil in the LORD's sight.
2Kgs.21.17 - The rest of the events in Manasseh's reign and all his deeds, including the sins he committed, are recorded in The Book of the History of the Kings of Judah.

God reaffirmed his punishment to the people of Israel who decided to follow the evil king, who next, Amon his son, third generation, what did he do

2Kgs.21.19 - Amon was twenty-two years old when he became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem two years. His mother was Meshullemeth, the daughter of Haruz from Jotbah.
2Kgs.21.20 - He did what was evil in the LORD's sight, just as his father, Manasseh, had done.
2Kgs.21.21 - He followed the example of his father, worshiping the same idols that his father had worshiped.
2Kgs.21.22 - He abandoned the LORD, the God of his ancestors, and he refused to follow the LORD's ways.

In all of this, it seems God was waiting, waiting for them to repent, anyway the people didn't repent and then came fourth generation Josiah, now the fullness of God's wrath should come down and wreck Judah but guess what. Josiah was different and nothing bad happened until he was killed and he was buried properly. Let's read it


2Kgs.23.25 - Never before had there been a king like Josiah, who turned to the LORD with all his heart and soul and strength, obeying all the laws of Moses. And there has never been a king like him since.
2Kgs.23.26 - Even so, the LORD's anger burned against Judah because of all the great evils of King Manasseh, and he did not hold back his fierce anger from them.
2Kgs.23.27 - For the LORD had said, "I will destroy Judah just as I have destroyed Israel. I will banish the people from my presence and reject my chosen city of Jerusalem and the Temple where my name was to be honored."

Notice God didn't say his anger was against Josiah, but against the people, well did they change after Josiah died.

Josiah pushed the punishment to the fifth generation

2Kgs.23.31 - Jehoahaz was twenty-three years old when he became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. His mother was Hamutal, the daughter of Jeremiah from Libnah.
2Kgs.23.32 - He did what was evil in the LORD's sight, just as his ancestors had done.

It was Jehoahaz who rebelled against Babylon, went to war, lost and got dragged away, and all that happened recorded in 2 kings 24


God is not a liar

Jashub:
This lengthy write up does not change the fact that God still punished some of the descendants of Hezekiah for their father's transgressions. Secondly, what happened to the descendants of Gehazi, and why were they punished? Kindly tell us

elated177:
Jashub, what was the sin of Gehazi?

What was the sin of Hezekiah?

elated177:
Jashub, did you read the whole of Ezekiel 18?

Jashub:
You have to have a balance view of all scripture to justify what you are saying. Take Jeremiah 5: 7 which says " Our fathers have sinned, and are not; and we have borne their iniquities.".

Also in Daniel chapter 9, we see Daniel praying for the children of Israel because of the sins their fathers committed against the Lord , which made them live in captivity .

Lastly, the devil operates on such principle because legally , it originated from God . For example , I have had the privilege of watching how some pagan priests have generational covenants with demons regarding their descendants, which in turn binds that lineage to generational affliction due to the covenant their fathers had with a demonic entity. Which is why as a Christian, it is good to pray and break every unknown yoke and sin which your fathers or ancestors may have committed against the Lord

gohf:
look when people, for example me and elated177, ask you if you read something the answer is either yes or no, but it's obvious you didn't.


Even the Jeremiah 5:7; you quoted, listen and please read this time

Jer.5.1 "Go up and down the streets of Jerusalem, look around and consider, search through her squares. If you can find but one person who deals honestly and seeks the truth, I will forgive this city...

Jeremiah responded well Jer.5.4-5 I thought, "These are only the poor; they are foolish, for they do not know the way of the LORD, the requirements of their God. I will go and speak to their leaders. Surely they will know the LORD's ways and what God requires of them." But the leaders, too, had utterly rejected their God.

Okay now what about their children?
Jer.5.7 "Why should I forgive you? Your children have forsaken me and sworn by gods that are not gods. I supplied all their needs, yet they committed adultery and thronged to the houses of prostitutes.

So where did you get what you quoted, it was Jeremiah lamenting in Lamentation 5:7 it was probably because of the misunderstanding from this statement that made it a saying in Israel that God had to correct through Ezekiel.

It's just as how some say it's only blacks that are Jews because of lam. 5.10.

First off God those children were not innocent, they walked in the ways of their parents who were punished and harmed in various ways during that incident that befell Jerusalem.

Now many years after Daniel interceeds based on God's promise to Jeremiah concerning the length of the punishment. Even in the midst of that punishment God kept preserving His people, the remnant.

Look a person can be born in a punishment period but still be blessed by God for obeying Him. It's not like even though God punished the world and reduced our lifespan doesn't mean he doesn't bless those who repent, obey and follow Him

Daniel 9 is a prayer based on God's promise to bring them back after a period had passed.

Now Daniel was a prince like his three friends, would you say God was punishing them for what their father did, when we can clearly read that even in the situation their father's actions brought them to, God kept them and preserved them.

There is nothing legal about the devil who the bible refers to as lawless and false accuser.

Now your final point to break yokes and all that.

You realize God was punishing Judah and he gave a promise and it was the basis of that promise, God's word that Daniel prayed with to understand how God would bring them out.

What the devil does is illegal, listen Isa.54.17 no weapon forged against you will prevail, and you will refute every tongue that accuses you. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and this is their vindication from me," declares the LORD. (NIV)

Another one
Isa.49.25 But the LORD says, "The captives of warriors will be released, and the plunder of tyrants will be retrieved. For I will fight those who fight you, and I will save your children.

But if God is the one punishing you, who will fight for you? who will deliver you out of God's hand and punishment?

Look the devil doesn't make people suffer because of what their forefather did, he isn't some agent of justice, he makes people suffer so they hate God or turn away from God.

If any of God's people thinks they are suffering because of what their parents did, it's because they are ignorant of what God's blessings can do. And honestly only a new genuine child of God is that ignorant as a new born infant.

Do you know what it means to be born again, in the spiritual realm your father is seen as God Almighty, the powers of your father's house are the powers of God's house.

The devil wants to continue tormenting some, so that they say, what is the point of repenting if God is still punishing me, or trick them back in some form of appeasement sacrifice

Jashub:
I made the correction on the verse . Secondly, you certainly did not read the prayer of Daniel; kindly read it and see that the context of his prayers were that of children inheriting the punishment of parents.
And for your information, Ezekiel , Jeremiah and Daniel were contemporaries.

gohf:
do you know the meaning of contemporaries, being alive when someone else is doesn't necessarily you their contemporary, while Jeremiah ministered those men, especially Daniel was but a boy.

It's not like this information is even needed or necessary, because God answered those words through Ezekiel that he isn't punishing those who repented from their ways and concerning your mention of Daniel words. The nation was destroyed by God, when God gave it back to them he enable them to be able to rebuild it.

Ask you, did God punish the children for the sins of their fathers? Did Daniel say that they the children who were exiled were innocent?did Daniel repent or not? Should that not be simple questions for you to answer. 😊

Jashub:
I asked a question at the end of my previous post . Kindly answer that first . Thank you