₦airaland Forum

ask4bk:
The answer is that it can. Once you parallel batteries, the amps drawn are shared among them. If he draws 300a and both have 150a bms, it'll work well safely if the battery manufacturer confirms that cells can discharge at 1C.

As you rightly questioned, he'll wires that can safely carry each 150a (35mm). And if he plans to use combiner busbar, it must be rated 300a, and cable from busbar to inverter must be rated for 300a (95mm) and then inverter must be rated to take in 300a, most of these being unlikely 🙆🏾‍♂️🙆🏾‍♂️🙆🏾‍♂️🙆🏾‍♂️.

But yes it can.

Thanks for the explanation, i get it now.

mctfopt:
My question. Is what size of cable does this user have to be able to do this?

16mm²?

35mm²?

120mm²?

is this person actually serious about this or just wanting to know what's possible ?
e get reason why NEPA / PHCN run High voltage and low Current. Nowadays, to respond any how dey tire me

ask4bk:
Then it means you want to put a solar charge controller into the non-hybrid inverter and make it a hybrid. That's Cool stuff.

The feature for an inverter to run from solar power independent of battery isn't a core hybrid feature. Many hybrid inverters don't have that feature though only a hybrid can have it since it has charge controller for solar panels. It's just an extra feature that hybrids may or may not have like supply to grid, power priority feature, etc... What makes an inverter hybrid is just one thing alone - that it has internal ability to get power from sun. Shikena.

There seem to be a communication gap here.

Once again, There's a feature in some or most Hybrid inverters whereBy they can directly get their supply from the Solar panels. Such feature never exists on non-Hybrid inverters.
Have often wondered why the Inverter can't just draw current directly from the Solar panel since the output of the charge controller, and the inverter's battery cables are both paralleled to the battery.

I need not put a charge controller into an inverter. That's not the aim. The aim is to figure a way to power the inverter directly from the terminals coming from an external charge controller so long it's output is stable enough. Of course we know one of the battery's role is to take care of noise while also ensuring voltage doesn't go higher than necessary. I believe it's possible.

There still would be need for a battery BUT the priority would be more when there's enough from the Solar panels, clean it up and use else rely on the batteries. That way there would be less strain on the battery.

mayBe I'm not explaining it well enough BUT I know what I wanna do; just don't have an any how inverter for such experiment

mctfopt:
My question. Is what size of cable does this user have to be able to do this?

16mm²?

35mm²?

120mm²?

If he’s willing to draw that much current for a longer period, 120mm^2 is fine to keep the cable cool.

mctfopt:
No, you won't as you cant draw more than 150A from the BMS.

Two batteries in parallel is still 12.8v nominal. So in this case you can't get to draw more than 150A, but your backup hours for load under 150A draw will surely double.

Edit: I made a mistake here. You can double the current drawn. But that will be so much current you gotta need a very large conductor.

If the batteries are in parallel, he can draw 150A from each making a total of 300A.

bassdow:
There seem to be a communication gap here.

Once again, There's a feature in some or most Hybrid inverters whereBy they can directly get their supply from the Solar panels. Such feature never exists on non-Hybrid inverters.
Have often wondered why the Inverter can't just draw current directly from the Solar panel since the output of the charge controller, and the inverter's battery cables are both paralleled to the battery.

I need not put a charge controller into an inverter. That's not the aim. The aim is to figure a way to power the inverter directly from the terminals coming from an external charge controller so long it's output is stable enough. Of course we know one of the battery's role is to take care of noise while also ensuring voltage doesn't go higher than necessary. I believe it's possible.

There still would be need for a battery BUT the priority would be more when there's enough from the Solar panels, clean it up and use else rely on the batteries. That way there would be less strain on the battery.

mayBe I'm not explaining it well enough BUT I know what I wanna do; just don't have an any how inverter for such experiment

Now you explaining yourself better and it's clear your intention.

My guess!
The difference with inverters that can work with solar panels only without battery and the ones that only work with battery is DC BUS.
In the ones that work only with battery, the DC BUS is connected only to the battery. Once battery is disconnected, inverter goes off.

Whereas, the inverters that can work with solar panels alone without battery, they connect the mppt to the same DC BUS that battery connects to. Since the MPPT is already a DC-DC converter, it'll just easily get required voltage and dump into the same common DC BUS that battery is connected to. It'll surely need capacitors to clean up ripples from the MPPT DC voltage. All the inverter needs is to get power from the DC BUS be it from battery or solar. It'll only go off if both are disconnected and DC BUS is low or empty.

Again, my guess!

bassdow:
There seem to be a communication gap here.

Once again, There's a feature in some or most Hybrid inverters whereBy they can directly get their supply from the Solar panels. Such feature never exists on non-Hybrid inverters.
Have often wondered why the Inverter can't just draw current directly from the Solar panel since the output of the charge controller, and the inverter's battery cables are both paralleled to the battery.

I need not put a charge controller into an inverter. That's not the aim. The aim is to figure a way to power the inverter directly from the terminals coming from an external charge controller so long it's output is stable enough. Of course we know one of the battery's role is to take care of noise while also ensuring voltage doesn't go higher than necessary. I believe it's possible.

There still would be need for a battery BUT the priority would be more when there's enough from the Solar panels, clean it up and use else rely on the batteries. That way there would be less strain on the battery.

mayBe I'm not explaining it well enough BUT I know what I wanna do; just don't have an any how inverter for such experiment

No reason why it wouldn't work. DC is DC at the end of the day. You just need a panel that closely matches the battery voltage range and stable output.

I'm not sure an inverter would be able to tell apart 13v from a pv vs 13v from a battery, though I expect the panel's output to be noisier/less clean.

Haisic still doing this BS even in the US.

48v battery with 15 cells lmao.

ask4bk:
Now you explaining yourself better and it's clear your intention.

My guess!
The difference with inverters that can work with solar panels only without battery and the ones that only work with battery is DC BUS.
In the ones that work only with battery, the DC BUS is connected only to the battery. Once battery is disconnected, inverter goes off.

Whereas, the inverters that can work with solar panels alone without battery, they connect the mppt to the same DC BUS that battery connects to. Since the MPPT is already a DC-DC converter, it'll just easily get required voltage and dump into the same common DC BUS that battery is connected to. It'll surely need capacitors to clean up ripples from the MPPT DC voltage. All the inverter needs is to get power from the DC BUS be it from battery or solar. It'll only go off if both are disconnected and DC BUS is low or empty.

Again, my guess!

Cleaning up the ripples (what we mostly call noise) ain't the only thing that's needed to be done. Without a fixed voltage source source as the battery, the charge controller got no way to regulate it's very high voltage down to what's required e.g even a 12v rated charge controller can give upwards of 20v. It's the battery that brings it down. Same thing that happens when you connect a strong battery / solar panel to a weak or small battery / solar panel, the strong one comes down to level of the weakest one.

Another is the inverter could decide to draw large current which the charge controller might not be able to supply hence one risks damaging the equipment. So it's not all that easy though seems doAble from the little I have looked into BUT then again, theory and practical differs.

if it were so simple, I presume it would have been a mainstream feature of all inverters

HeavenlyBang:
No reason why it wouldn't work. DC is DC at the end of the day. You just need a panel that closely matches the battery voltage range and stable output.

I'm not sure an inverter would be able to tell apart 13v from a pv vs 13v from a battery, though I expect the panel's output to be noisier/less clean.

On the surface, looks very simple. Thought so too till I began looking into it.

Either way, I need an inverter to work with

bassdow:
Cleaning up the ripples (what we mostly call noise) ain't the only thing that's needed to be done. Without a fixed voltage source source as the battery, the charge controller got no way to regulate it's very high voltage down to what's required e.g even a 12v rated charge controller can give upwards of 20v. It's the battery that brings it down. Same thing that happens when you connect a strong battery / solar panel to a weak or small battery / solar panel, the strong one comes down to level of the weakest one.

Another is the inverter could decide to draw large current which the charge controller might not be able to supply hence one risks damaging the equipment. So it's not all that easy though seems doAble from the little I have looked into BUT then again, theory and practical differs.

if it were so simple, I presume it would have been a mainstream feature of all inverters

I no come understand you again. You just said a charge controller can't regulate high voltage whereas that's the primary work of a charge controller. This is funny 😁. All a charge controller does is to step down DC voltage to the voltage you set it to. It can receive 300v 12a and step it down to 12, 24, 48v or any figure you set it to, while it increases amps or regulates it accordingly. Every charge controller is a DC-DC converter.
You thought only battery can give 48v for eg? 🙆🏾‍♂️🙆🏾‍♂️.

Anyways.. I guess you've already figured it all out.

Please chief what do you think could be causing buzzing noise from my inverter whenever it rains, but whenever everywhere dries out the noise stops. And the issue is coming from the pv cos the noise stops when I turn off the pv breaker.

And this only happens only when it rains and after raining.

HeavenlyBang:
No reason why it wouldn't work. DC is DC at the end of the day. You just need a panel that closely matches the battery voltage range and stable output.

I'm not sure an inverter would be able to tell apart 13v from a pv vs 13v from a battery, though I expect the panel's output to be noisier/less clean.

That's what i just told this bassdow guy and he's saying a charge controller can't regulate high voltage from panels. Lol.
DC is DC.
All those inverters that work with only solar panels do is that they add the DC from charge controller also into the DC bus that the battery connects to. Then they use capacitors and electronics to clean the noise and the inverter picks it's DC from that DC bus and inverts into AC. The inverter doesn't know difference between 54v from battery and 54v from charge controller as long they are in same dc bus and clean.

adrusa:
If the batteries are in parallel, he can draw 150A from each making a total of 300A.

Em I think I already said that in the post you quoted. Or did I not?

ask4bk:
I no come understand you again. You just said a charge controller can't regulate high voltage whereas that's the primary work of a charge controller. This is funny 😁. All a charge controller does is to step down DC voltage to the voltage you set it to. It can receive 300v 12a and step it down to 12, 24, 48v or any figure you set it to, while it increases amps or regulates it accordingly. Every charge controller is a DC-DC converter.
You thought only battery can give 48v for eg? 🙆🏾‍♂️🙆🏾‍♂️.

Anyways.. I guess you've already figured it all out.

Might have been somewhat mistaken in my last comment. Not often easy making comments while almost at same time moving from screen to screen.

Either way, got my guesses, theories, and findings and would need put them to action. Once again, if it were so easy, why isn't such feature mainstream after all both Charge controller's battery output and inverters battery input are both paralleled to the battery's connectors.

fuckboys:
Please chief what do you think could be causing buzzing noise from my inverter whenever it rains, but whenever everywhere dries out the noise stops. And the issue is coming from the pv cos the noise stops when I turn off the pv breaker.

And this only happens only when it rains and after raining.

where's the buzzing coming from - Fan or inverter electrical components ?

bassdow:
Might have been somewhat mistaken in my last comment. Not often easy making comments while almost at same time moving from screen to screen.

Either way, got my guesses, theories, and findings and would need put them to action. Once again, if it were so easy, why isn't such feature mainstream after all both Charge controller's battery output and inverters battery input are both paralleled to the battery's connectors.

Actually, inverter doesn't get DC from battery. It gets from dc bus. It just happens that it's the battery that's connected to the bus. When you parallel your cc to battery, that cc output still enters your dc bus via the same battery cable. That's why when your battery is filled up it stops charging and your load in house is inverted from the dc from the cc that's hitting the dc bus.

Once you disconnect battery, the cc also disconnects coz it has nothing to clamp it's voltage on. That's why that inverter will only work with battery.

For the inverters that have the solar alone capable feature, they add something to the bus bar as earlier discussed that regulates and stabilise current. It'll now be like virtual battery such making the CC to continue to output dc into the dc bus without cutting off when battery is removed.

Every inverter can't have it. There's why it's an optional feature. Also the less features you've in these inverters the better. The more the features the more likely you will get faults. Manufacturers like to keep things simple. If you want added features, pay for it, but e fit de spoil any time. That's why your old simple transformer inverter of 2015 is still working till today, but new ones don't last 2 years 😭😭.

Good luck man.

Dam5reey:
Thanks for the mention!



Please be informed that this is a Voltage/Current/Delay Protection Device, it does not regulate voltage, Protects from LV or HV.

yes i know and that is what i need it for 4 the time bin. meanwhile my colleague says there are so many fake in the market that his own caught fire.... so i opted to get original chint but the parameters get as e take de...i prefer the other one as it is easily adjustable

bassdow:
where's the buzzing coming from - Fan or inverter electrical components ?

it’s coming from inside the inverter. It’s a hybrid inverter.

HeavenlyBang:
Haisic still doing this BS even in the US.

48v battery with 15 cells lmao.

Lol, just checked my feed and was hoping no one would beat me to it, but I should have known my seniors de plenty on here.

Pretty good review from Will and congratulations to Haisic for making it to the big leagues, even if the review wasn't positive at all


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqWtOWGSJiA?si=7CiSF3EsD7b5bSdv

ask4bk:
Actually, inverter doesn't get DC from battery. It gets from dc bus. It just happens that it's the battery that's connected to the bus. When you parallel your cc to battery, that cc output still enters your dc bus via the same battery cable. That's why when your battery is filled up it stops charging and your load in house is inverted from the dc from the cc that's hitting the dc bus.

Once you disconnect battery, the cc also disconnects coz it has nothing to clamp it's voltage on. That's why that inverter will only work with battery.

For the inverters that have the solar alone capable feature, they add something to the bus bar as earlier discussed that regulates and stabilise current. It'll now be like virtual battery such making the CC to continue to output dc into the dc bus without cutting off when battery is removed.

Every inverter can't have it. There's why it's an optional feature. Also the less features you've in these inverters the better. The more the features the more likely you will get faults. Manufacturers like to keep things simple. If you want added features, pay for it, but e fit de spoil any time. That's why your old simple transformer inverter of 2015 is still working till today, but new ones don't last 2 years 😭😭.

Good luck man.

Firstly, I prefer modular products as when faults develop, spotting and fixing is much easier than integrated circuits. Same in software fields.

Secondly, didn't come here to get all theoretical hence never bothered using exact English abi grammar. Whether na battery or busBar, my concern is to make an inverter prioritize source from charge controller when suitable.

If what I'm seeking works out, then it would be possible to rely on just 4-batteries (if doing 48v) than 8-batteries for same battery voltage during intense load use e.g some of us pump water only during the day, we also run our fridges and freezers during the day while the conservative ones among us (myself included) power it off by 4pm.

There are times when the sun is blazing, your battery banks are 100% filled since morning yet the moment a high power draw appliance is connected, they exert pressure on the batteries hence it becomes a matter of take from the batteries while the charge controller refills the batteries. Why not just take from the direct source and only fall back to the batteries when conditions are unfavorable.

I quite understand the more complex a circuit is, the more fragile they tend to get hence a complex circuitry could become completely useless just from a minor fault from a secondary feature. But with what I intends looking into, it would be dedicated. Same way today I could power a laptop directly off 12-volts power source without boosting it at all. I just feed it a direct 12-volts (don't expect the laptop's internal batteries to recharge) and it works perfectly well. Now consider the battery health of 2 different people performing exactly same operation with difference between 1 relies on an inverter while the other does. In 2-years, the battery health of both can never be same. I say this because it's what I do.

Even my desktop PCs (which mostly are servers) performing heavy task on daily basis all run on 12-volts.

The inverter is only for heavy duty loads such as the 0.75HP and 1HP submersible pumping machines, and the freezers.

other than regular household loads, I got a very mini server farm handling lots of operations. Once in a while, I love to optimize parts of the systems and the power sector all custom built by me, initially were fragmented due to the way I started BUT overtime, have modernized parts of it but there's always room for improvements. AnyOne running custom systems would understand upgrades ain't often so straight forward.

Should this work out, using a regular hot plate on Solar shouldn't be as battery stressing as it's currently is.

yea You might wonder why go through the stress rather than just pay for the closest thing that's got such feature or buy more batteries and inverters BUT some of us love DIY. It's our own way of having fun; just like for some others, it's wasting away at beer parlors.

Only came here to see if possible to get an inverter one is no longer actively using for whatever reason so long it's still functional or repairable BUT if after a while I don't get any, would just look into getting one just for this experiment. Hopefully if it works out, una no go want to know how far. Just sharing the intention here is enough for anyOne to try actualizing it especially since some of una don already voice out how easy it kinda seems.

Would have just gone for a pure Hybrid system with such feature BUT their circuits are always so integrated that one thing going bad affects everything else and I can't afford to spend money on something whose repairAbility is quite low.

The SRNE charge controller I got recently, which currently powers just a small load; yet to actually pump it up, is where I connected 2pcs of external monitors (24-inch and 32-inch), 1 Core i7 Laptop, and all the routers and modems and guess what, total Current draw as shown on the Charge controller's LCD is just 3.8A.
Imagine if I had to involve an inverter to convert 12v to 230v just so it gets stepped down again to 19v.

The battery currently in use is a used battery which has been there for close to 3.5 years now and guess what, the Laptop and Monitors are always ON because I work full time. Even when I sleep (< 3.5-hours daily), they just go into idle mode; I don't hibernate. What that means is that in a year, it might only restart 3 times more or less.

fuckboys:
it’s coming from inside the inverter. It’s a hybrid inverter.

Except your inverter doesn't have a FAN inside it, we need know if it's from the Fan or not. Probably record the sound also. Some sounds are normal while others ain't. The inductors could make a sound, the Fan could do it's own, don't even want to talk of static ones. So we need first know where it's coming from, then know how to isolate it. It could even be coming from the Solar panels.
You didn't tell us if it happens when connected to NEPA / PHCN.

mayBe those with such experience would know better

SaintUlot:
How would you have solar installation in your house and you are still spending money to buy cooking gas and paying for fuel to transport yourself? That is an abomination, you are obviously shortchanging yourself, if you ain't optimising the immense benefit of your home solar installation.

Take your solar-powered lifestyle to the next level with this advanced electric bike, perfect for daily commutes and delivery businesses! This beast is FAST, keeping up with traffic effortlessly, covering a range of 200km on a single charge with a max speed of 57km/h.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejqmK4NvdHM

Check this thread for pictures:
https://www.nairaland.com/8493674/dual-motor-triple-battery-52v#136385243

Still available

ask4bk:
Then it means you want to put a solar charge controller into the non-hybrid inverter and make it a hybrid. That's Cool stuff.

The feature for an inverter to run from solar power independent of battery isn't a core hybrid feature. Many hybrid inverters don't have that feature though only a hybrid can have it since it has charge controller for solar panels. It's just an extra feature that hybrids may or may not have like supply to grid, power priority feature, etc... What makes an inverter hybrid is just one thing alone - that it has internal ability to get power from sun. Shikena.

Does this mean inverters that support this feature ( can working without batteries) have the ability to wake a dead lithium battery caused by bms shutdown?

mctfopt:
Em I think I already said that in the post you quoted. Or did I not?

Ok, I now see the edit, which wasn't there when I responded. The bolded below is what I responded to.

"Two batteries in parallel is still 12.8v nominal. So in this case you can't get to draw more than 150A, but your backup hours for load under 150A draw will surely double."

pls are the 48v 15kwh and 30kwh white standing batteries with wheels guilty of this?

HeavenlyBang:
Haisic still doing this BS even in the US.

48v battery with 15 cells lmao.

HeavenlyBang:
Haisic still doing this BS even in the US.

48v battery with 15 cells lmao.

This is how they give you those "unbeatable" prices in the market. They cut corners. Saw the video and I'm pissed. Why will they do that?

adrusa:
Ok, I now see the edit, which wasn't there when I responded. The bolded below is what I responded to.

"Two batteries in parallel is still 12.8v nominal. So in this case you can't get to draw more than 150A, but your backup hours for load under 150A draw will surely double."

Na why I edit am na

AndroBlaze:
Lol, just checked my feed and was hoping no one would beat me to it, but I should have known my seniors de plenty on here.

Pretty good review from Will and congratulations to Haisic for making it to the big leagues, even if the review wasn't positive at all


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqWtOWGSJiA?si=7CiSF3EsD7b5bSdv

It's just terrible, really.

mctfopt:
This is how they give you those "unbeatable" prices in the market. They cut corners. Saw the video and I'm pissed. Why will they do that?

Of course they cut corners. Their 8kwh battery is only like 7.2kwh. Still amazing for the price, though, so I don't know why they just won't market it as what it actually is.

HeavenlyBang:
It's just terrible, really.



Of course they cut corners. Their 8kwh battery is only like 7.2kwh. Still amazing for the price, though, so I don't know why they just won't market it as what it actually is.

...and you sure that's the only corner being cut.

bassdow:
Only came here to see if possible to get an inverter one is no longer actively using for whatever reason so long it's still functional or repairable BUT if after a while I don't get any, would just look into getting one just for this experiment. Hopefully if it works out, una no go want to know how far. Just sharing the intention here is enough for anyOne to try actualizing it especially since some of una don already voice out how easy it kinda seems.

When you succeed pls share findings and result with us since we all want to learn.

As for inverter that no one is using, we no get.
But if you wan pay for the inverter for the experiment, ehen, then that one we get inverter to give. 😂😁