₦airaland Forum

Truthseeker10:
But you've explained it na so answer the other question.
Which heaven will be destroyed?
Is heaven and earth the same thing?

If I have explained it, then there is nothing to say again

Truthseeker10:
Ok...you do you believe that the soul dies?

Are you saying that Genesis 6:3 is talking about the spirit that returns to God when a person dies instead of the Holy Spirit?

Since God gave your soul Life, why would you think that He cannot unalive it?

Is the spirit that returns to God in Genesis 6:3, not already Holy?

Dtruthspeaker:
Since God gave your soul Life, why would you think that He cannot unalive it?

Is the spirit that returns to God in Genesis 6:3, not already Holy?

So what happens to this spirit when it returns to God?

Dtruthspeaker:
If I have explained it, then there is nothing to say again

You've not explained the heaven that would be destroyed.

Truthseeker10:
So what happens to this spirit when it returns to God?

When you see God, ask Him!

Truthseeker10:
You've not explained the heaven that would be destroyed.

If I have explained it, then there is nothing to say again

Dtruthspeaker:
If I have explained it, then there is nothing to say again

You've not sir.

Dtruthspeaker:
When you see God, ask Him!

ok.

Truthseeker10:
Does not the bible clearly shows that there is no activity in hell?

Douay-Rheims Bible
Whatsoever thy hand is able to do, do it
earnestly: for neither work, nor reason, nor
wisdom, nor knowledge shall be in hell,
whither thou art hastening

Catholic Public Domain Version
Whatever your hand is able to do, do it
earnestly. For neither work, nor reason, nor
wisdom, nor knowledge will exist in death,
toward which you are hurrying

New American Bible
Anything you can turn your hand to, do with
what power you have; for there will be no
work, no planning, no knowledge, no
wisdom in Sheol where you are going

The writer is speaking from the view point of life on earth.
The dead cannot participate in anything.
The context of the whole of ecclesiastes is from the point view of earthly life.

Steep:
The writer is speaking from the view point of life on earth.
The dead cannot participate in anything.
The context of the whole of ecclesiastes is from the point view of earthly life.

So you mean "hell" as shown in the translation above refers to the life on earth?

Truthseeker10:
So you mean "hell" as shown in the translation above refers to the life on earth?

No the writer was speaking base on the perspective of life under the Sun from the perspective of the early life, the dead has no, reward, no knowledge, and can't participate in anything.
Remember the writer said the dead has no more reward ecc. 9.5 that is in the perspective of rewards in this life.

Steep:
No the writer was speaking base on the perspective of life under the Sun from the perspective of the early life, the dead has no, reward, no knowledge, and can't participate in anything.
Remember the writer said the dead has no more reward ecc. 9.5 that is in the perspective of rewards in this life.

In line with Ecclesiastes 9:5 Paul said the dead has paid for all their sins {Romans 6:7} because the only punishment God is giving the sinner is death {Romans 6:23} so as humans we are all dead going by Jesus' perspective {Luke 9:60} but whoever believes in Jesus has gotten himself or herself another opportunity to live again in Paradise! Luke 23:43

So all dead people are gone for good if they have no business with God! Psalms 9:17

MaxInDHouse:
In line with Ecclesiastes 9:5 Paul said the dead has paid for all their sins {Romans 6:7} because the only punishment God is giving the sinner is death {Romans 6:23} so as humans we are all dead going by Jesus' perspective {Luke 9:60} but whoever believes in Jesus has gotten himself or herself another opportunity to live again in Paradise! Luke 23:43

So all dead people are gone for good if they have no business with God! Psalms 9:17

why then did scripture say God will judge the living and the dead? If the dead has already paid for their sins?

Steep:
No the writer was speaking base on the perspective of life under the Sun from the perspective of the early life, the dead has no, reward, no knowledge, and can't participate in anything.
Remember the writer said the dead has no more reward ecc. 9.5 that is in the perspective of rewards in this life.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Whatsoever thy hand is able to do, do it
earnestly: for neither work, nor reason, nor
wisdom, nor knowledge shall be in hell,
whither thou art hastening

Oga above is the writer's words.....was he describing life on earth or in hell?

Steep:
why then did scripture say God will judge the living and the dead? If the dead has already paid for their sins?

That means the living (believers) and the dead (unbelievers) who are alive not those who have already paid for their sins at death.
Remember Jesus clarified that only his disciples are living while all others are dead so by the time God's Kingdom comes both his disciples (living) and unbelievers (dead) will have to face their judgement that's why Jesus said the rest of the dead (unbelievers) didn't come to life until the 1,000 years {Revelations 20:5} it's after Christ's thousand years reign that we will know those to be given everlasting life {Revelations 21:3-4} untill then even though we will no longer grow old during Christ's 1,000 years reign whoever has not believe Jesus is still on his or her way to destruction! Isaiah 65:20

Truthseeker10:
Douay-Rheims Bible
Whatsoever thy hand is able to do, do it
earnestly: for neither work, nor reason, nor
wisdom, nor knowledge shall be in hell,
whither thou art hastening

Oga above is the writer's words.....was he describing life on earth or in hell?

He is speaking from what we observe of the dead here on earth. By the way hell means grave. The context of ecclesiastes is from the pov of earthly life (under the sun).

MaxInDHouse:
That means the living (believers) and the dead (unbelievers) who are alive not those who have already paid for their sins at death.
Remember Jesus clarified that only his disciples are living while all others are dead so by the time God's Kingdom comes both his disciples (living) and unbelievers (dead) will have to face their judgement that's why Jesus said the rest of the dead (unbelievers) didn't come to life until the 1,000 years {Revelations 20:5} it's after Christ's thousand years reign that we will know those to be given everlasting life {Revelations 21:3-4} untill then even though we will no longer grow old during Christ's 1,000 years reign whoever has not believe Jesus is still on his or her way to destruction! Isaiah 65:20

If the dead has already paid for their sins how come the dead are raised again to face Judgement.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

They were judged according to what they had done, if by dieing their sins have already be paid for why will God raise them again to face Judgement

Steep:
He is speaking from what we observe of the dead here on earth. By the way hell means grave. The context of ecclesiastes is from the pov of earthly life (under the sun).

So if hell means grave, where is hell fire?
Tell us the Hebrew and Greek word for hell fire.

Steep:
If the dead has already paid for their sins how come the dead are raised again to face Judgement.
Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
They were judged according to what they had done, if by dieing their sins have already be paid for why will God raise them again to face Judgement

These are the RIGHTEOUS and the UNRIGHTEOUS that will be resurrected! Act 24:15

RIGHTEOUS: people God declared righteous because they lived by His laws which they learned before Jesus came. They are declared righteous based on the way they observed God's word but they are not qualified for everlasting life yet because they haven't accepted the truth that leads to everlasting life from Jesus so during Christ's thousand years reign they have to prove they believe in Jesus by practicing what they learned from the Christians before they can have everlasting life.

UNRIGHTEOUS: people who don't know God's laws but lived by conscience so God didn't declare them righteous but He will show them mercy by raising them back to life {Romans 2:14-15} so after learning about Jesus during his thousand years reign they must prove their stand in what they learned.

These two set will be judged not by the things they did before their former death because those sins has been paid for by their death but by the things they choose to do after learning about Jesus.

WICKED: these are people who don't care about God so they does wicked things as they don't fear God or care so they have paid for their sins with their death and never to be remembered for resurrection! Psalms 9:17

Truthseeker10:
So if hell means grave, where is hell fire?
Tell us the Hebrew and Greek word for hell fire.

Sheol, Gehenna and Hades. Mostly used to depict grave or realm of the dead.

Truthseeker10:
So if hell means grave, where is hell fire?
Tell us the Hebrew and Greek word for hell fire.

Hell or grave can be used in the physical sense or in the spiritual sense depends on the context.

bamvik:
A murderer and a liar will still go to hellfire
Someone who has been stealing in his entire life might go to heaven, while the one that stole once will go to hell. I can go on and on.
Mind you, in heaven no more vacation to different cities of the world, no more cruising in jets, ships and latest cars. No more Nairaland and other social media apps, no games, no football.
Just praises and hymns

That's a myopic view of Heaven. You have no idea of the things there😁. I have always wished to be in the company of angels and in heaven since my first encounter but I was directed that my fellow men were ’angels’ also👀—a notion, perhaps, God wanted me to see the good in people😮‍💨.

Know this and have peace: ’physical things are far inferior to spiritual things’😅.

Now, Imagine conversing with the Father, having him teach you all things. Seeing and doing activities with the Lord of heaven. One activity, I look forward to apart from sipping heavenly wine with God, is playing heavenly chess.

Tell the Lord to show you, the entertainment aspects of heaven🤤; very lovely. You will be hooked for eternity. Now, imagine if some ’fallen spiritual rogues’ could apply simple spiritual principles to hook billions of people to their ideals😮‍💨...Now, imagine the Lord of heaven.

Bro, change your mindset😁.

Steep:
Hell or grave can be used in the physical sense or in the spiritual sense depends on the context.

So kindly show us where hell is used in the spiritual sense in the bible.

What is the Hebrew and Greek word for hell?

MaxInDHouse:
These are the RIGHTEOUS and the UNRIGHTEOUS that will be resurrected! Act 24:15

RIGHTEOUS: people God declared righteous because they lived by His laws which they learned before Jesus came. They are declared righteous based on the way they observed God's word but they are not qualified for everlasting life yet because they haven't accepted the truth that leads to everlasting life from Jesus so during Christ's thousand years reign they have to prove they believe in Jesus by practicing what they learned from the Christians before they can have everlasting life.

UNRIGHTEOUS: people who don't know God's laws but lived by conscience so God didn't declare them righteous but He will show them mercy by raising them back to life {Romans 2:14-15} so after learning about Jesus during his thousand years reign they must prove their stand in what they learned.

These two set will be judged not by the things they did before their former death because those sins has been paid for by their death but by the things they choose to do after learning about Jesus.

WICKED: these are people who don't care about God so they does wicked things as they don't fear God or care so they have paid for their sins with their death and never to be remembered for resurrection! Psalms 9:17

According to Revelation 20, the first resurrection is for people who were killed for not accepting the mark of the beast but The rest of the dead did not live until after the 1000 years was over.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The second resurrection took place before the judgment seat of God.
By the way the bible described the second death as everlasting punishment.

Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
For everlasting punishment to be possible that those people must be fully aware of the torment.

For example the devil, the false prophet and the anti christ will be tormented forever.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Those who worship the beast will be tormented day nor night and the smoke of their torment will rise forever and ever.

Hence the second death is everlasting punishment not everlasting anhillation.

Since the first resurrection is for those who were murdered for not worshiping the anti christ then the second one is for the rest of the dead because the dead said so
So all the dead would be resurrected.

Steep:
According to Revelation 20, the first resurrection is for people who were killed for not accepting the mark of the beast but The rest of the dead did not live until after the 1000 years was over.

Is Paul also part of them?

Steep:
Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The second resurrection took place before the judgment seat of God.
And By the way were is it written that those who have died have paid for their sins?

For the one who has died has been acquitted from his sin. ‭Romans 6:7 NWT

because anyone who has died has been set free from sin. ‭Romans 6:7 NIV‬

For he that is dead is freed from sin. Romans 6:7 KJV

Truthseeker10:
So kindly show us where hell is used in the spiritual sense in the bible.

What is the Hebrew and Greek word for hell?

In Luke 16:23 Jesus described hell as a real place where dead souls are, remember in all of Jesus parable he used real things that truly take place to illustrate his teachings. Jesus description of hell goes beyond the physical into the spiritual dimension.

Steep:
In Luke 16:23 Jesus described hell as a real place where dead souls are, remember in all of Jesus parable he used real things that truly take place to illustrate his teachings. Jesus description of hell goes beyond the physical into the spiritual dimension.

According to the illustration what GOOD did Lazarus do and what evil did the rich man commit?
When did this Lazarus lived?
Is it during Moses's or Jesus' times?

[quote author=MaxInDHouse post=136918199]Is Paul also part of them?

Paul would be part of the first resurrection.


[quote]For the one who has died has been acquitted from his sin. ‭Romans 6:7 NWT


because anyone who has died has been set free from sin. ‭Romans 6:7 NIV‬

For he that is dead is freed from sin. Romans 6:7 KJV

So where does it say they have paid for their sin? Do you know the meaning of pay and free?

MaxInDHouse:
According to the illustration what GOOD did Lazarus do and what evil did the rich man commit?
When did this Lazarus lived?
Is it during Moses's or Jesus' times?

Or Lazarus to be in the bosom of Abraham, it showed that he has the same faith as Abraham while the rich man only cared for himself living in pleasure while Lazarus at his gate suffered.

Steep:
Paul would be part of the first resurrection.

Well Paul also said:
...those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. 1Thessalonians 4:16
Then goes on to say:
Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air. 1Thessalonians 4:17
So when did Mark of the beast occurred and Paul refused to accept it?😟

Steep:
So where does it say they have paid for their sin? Do you know the meaning of pay and free?

If someone is owing and they said he is freed (KJV) or acquitted (NWT) please can you use another English?😟

Please check other translations if this is difficult!

Steep:
Or Lazarus to be in the bosom of Abraham, it showed that he has the same faith as Abraham while the rich man only cared for himself living in pleasure while Lazarus at his gate suffered.

Lazarus DESIRE what is falling from the rich man's table {Luke 16:21} so the illustration has a totally different meaning!

Steep:
In Luke 16:23 Jesus described hell as a real place where dead souls are, remember in all of Jesus parable he used real things that truly take place to illustrate his teachings. Jesus description of hell goes beyond the physical into the spiritual dimension.

What do you mean by dead souls, do souls die?

So in that illustration, how come the rich man was asking for water to cool his tongue if he was not with his physical body?