₦airaland Forum

oga028315:
Initially you said it was only Igbos, and I corrected you, now you are saying it was 80% Igbos and that there was no Igbo casualty from the original hit list, so for you to use original hit list in your statement means there was Igbo casualty?

It was someone else that insinuated that the membership of the plotters it was 100% Igbos, and not me. Check again. The only Igbo casualty was Arthur Unegbe who was actually never penned down for death by the plotters. His death was more or less accidental, so that did not qualify as casualty in any way.

oga028315:
Good question to answer only if you can tell me why Nigeria failed to honor the Aburi accord agreement in Ghana.

Which came first between Aburi Accord and the successful criminalization of secession by Azikiwe's efforts?

oga028315:
One thing I have I have noticed with you people is that you like selective history to suite biased and false narrative, I have answered this question for you with a question in my first reply before this, if you can answer it then we can continue from there....

I don't see where you answered this question before. Care pointing it out to me?

oga028315:
Please I need the details with verifiable link, not with your mouth...

Please find it below and happy reading.

https://guardian.ng/opinion/mistakes-rotimi-williams-and-i-made-about-nigerias-constitution/

Please not where the report quotes Nwabueze as saying:

Then, what did we do to achieve our mis-guided objective? We took away 50 per cent of the items on the concurrent list and gave it to the centre.

Deadlytruth:
Please find it below and happy reading.

https://guardian.ng/opinion/mistakes-rotimi-williams-and-i-made-about-nigerias-constitution/

Please not where the report quotes Nwabueze as saying:

Then, what did we do to achieve our mis-guided objective? We took away 50 per cent of the items on the concurrent list and gave it to the centre.

Oh, so what about Rotimi Williams, was he not a Yoruba man? Why didn't you blame him with the Igbo man who did it?

because it won't suit your bias narrative of always blaming the Igbos, why are you people like this?

Deadlytruth:
It was someone else that insinuated that the membership of the plotters it was 100% Igbos, and not me. Check again. The only Igbo casualty was Arthur Unegbe who was actually never penned down for death by the plotters. His death was more or less accidental, so that did not qualify as casualty in any way.

Since you admit the plotters were all from various tribes of Nigeria, how is it now an Igbo coup?

Deadlytruth:
Which came first between Aburi Accord and the successful criminalization of secession by Azikiwe's efforts?

What you should be asking is what lead to the Aburi accord?

What exactly brought about the Aburi accord?

oga028315:
Oh, so what about Rotimi Williams, was he not a Yoruba man? Why didn't you blame him with the Igbo man who did it?

because it won't suit your bias narrative of always blaming the Igbos, why are you people like this?

Didn't you see where it is written there that Nwabueze was the chairman of that committee? As Chairman the ultimate decision was his as he had the power to overrule Rotimi Williams if he had been of the opinion that the centralized status quo be done away with and Rotimi Williams was pro-status quo.

oga028315:
What you should be asking is what lead to the Aburi accord?

What exactly brought about the Aburi accord?

If Ironsi never tampered with the truly federal constitution of 1963, would there have ever been any need for Aburi Accord?

oga028315:
Since you admit the plotters were all from various tribes of Nigeria, how is it now an Igbo coup?

Let us use a role reversal scenario to drive home the fact that it was an Igbo coup. Now assume that during the immediate past Buhari administration, a group of four Yoruba Army officers and one Igbo officer staged a coup citing massive corruption in Buhari's government, and then proceeded to kill Buhari himself, Amaechi, Hope Uzodima, Oshiomhole, Malami, El-Rufai, Rochas Okorocha, Dave Umahi who had just defected to the APC back then, Yaya Bello, and lastly Adeleke The Dancer, while making sure that Tinubu who went from the South into the alliance that brought Buhari into power was out of the country holidaying in far away France and Osibanjo was "miraculously" nowhere to be found during the killings; is there any apologetics that can ever convince you that the presence of that only Igbo officer in the core of the plot was enough evidence that those four Yoruba Army officers at the core of the plot have no Yoruba supremacy agenda under their sleeves?

Deadlytruth:
Let us use a role reversal scenario to drive home the fact that it was an Igbo coup. Now assume that during the immediate past Buhari administration, a group of four Yoruba Army officers and one Igbo officer staged a coup citing massive corruption in Buhari's government, and then proceeded to kill Buhari himself, Amaechi, Hope Uzodima, Oshiomhole, Malami, El-Rufai, Rochas Okorocha, Dave Umahi who had just defected to the APC back then, Yaya Bello, and lastly Adeleke The Dancer, while making sure that Tinubu who went from the South into the alliance that brought Buhari into power was out of the country holidaying in far away France and Osibanjo was "miraculously" nowhere to be found during the killings; is there any apologetics that can ever convince you that the presence of that only Igbo officer in the core of the plot was enough evidence that those four Yoruba Army officers at the core of the plot have no Yoruba supremacy agenda under their sleeves?

But from the list of participants, the people were drawn from almost all parts of Nigeria, are you saying all the other tribes involved in the participation were not smart enough to know it was an Igbo coup?

Deadlytruth:
If Ironsi never tampered with the truly federal constitution of 1963, would there have ever been any need for Aburi Accord?

That was not what led to the Aburi accord, you see why I said people like you either don't know the full history of events or you either deliberately omit the sides you don't want to talk about because it won't suit your agenda about the Igbos.

Let me just help you, it was not the coup nor Aguyi Ironsi decree that lead to the Aburi accord or the war itself, it all started from hate and envy against the Igbos, and these all started before the coup, Igbos were being killed and chased away from some parts of Nigeria especially the north just for getting and doing things based on merit, that to me has been downfall of Nigeria, because Nigeria has never recovered since then because it stemmed from envy and hatred which resulted to injustice and lead to nepotism which became a norm in Nigeria, of course once merit is thrown away for tribe or religion, the result is the Nigeria you see today...


Read this one first, if you want more of how the events unfolded till the war I will tell you, till you come to the realization that Nigeria's biggest problem is injustice especially against the Igbos then you will keep throwing blames on the wrong things...


https://www.nairaland.com/2512622/how-igbos-treated-north-ena

https://www.nairaland.com/2512622/how-igbos-treated-north-ena#36761433

Deadlytruth:
Didn't you see where it is written there that Nwabueze was the chairman of that committee? As Chairman the ultimate decision was his as he had the power to overrule Rotimi Williams if he had been of the opinion that the centralized status quo be done away with and Rotimi Williams was pro-status quo.

Chairman of the committe didn't take decisions on his own now, why are you people this?

Like I said earlier you people either don't know the full events of history of things you argue about Nigeria or you simply omit the parts that don't suit your agenda against the Igbos, you people only look for the slightest excuse to blame the Igbos... why are you people like this?

oga028315:
Chairman of the committe didn't take decisions on his own now, why are you people this?

Like I said earlier you people either don't know the full events of history of things you argue about Nigeria or you simply omit the parts that don't suit your agenda against the Igbos, you people only look for the slightest excuse to blame the Igbos... why are you people like this?

What you are missing is the simple fact that Nwabueze's experienced about the dangers of centralization was more than the experience of all the other committee members' put together. This is because Nwabueze was the one who advised Ironsi to centralize power and resources twelve years earlier on and saw how it led to a constitutional crisis that culminated in a war that claimed millions of innocent lives all over Nigeria and also ended up institutionalizing corruption in Nigeria. So Nwabueze as head of the committee owed the other committee members the duty to first of all and before any voting on what to agree on, lecture and educate them on the dangers of centralization of power citing his own past mistake of 1966 as examples to deter those other Committee members if he Nwabueze had no ulterior motive. As at that time in question, who of the actors in the Ironsi administration could beat his chest in all honesty and claim that he had not come to realize courtesy of the war and constitutional crisis caused by Ironsi, that a better Nigeria could only be achieved through a return to the highly decentralized system we started with at independence and that the one Nigeria/, National Unity sloganeering was a huge fraud which held the potential to keep plunging Nigeria further into the doldrums? So why should Nwabueze join inexperienced committee members in taking decisions which were tilted in favour of the fraudulent national unity despite he himself having seen it all earlier on that centralization in the name of pursuing national unity was dangerous to the future of Nigeria?

oga028315:
That was not what led to the Aburi accord, you see why I said people like you either don't know the full history of events or you either deliberately omit the sides you don't want to talk about because it won't suit your agenda about the Igbos.

Let me just help you, it was not the coup nor Aguyi Ironsi decree that lead to the Aburi accord or the war itself, it all started from hate and envy against the Igbos, and these all started before the coup, Igbos were being killed and chased away from some parts of Nigeria especially the north just for getting and doing things based on merit, that to me has been downfall of Nigeria, because Nigeria has never recovered since then because it stemmed from envy and hatred which resulted to injustice and lead to nepotism which became a norm in Nigeria, of course once merit is thrown away for tribe or religion, the result is the Nigeria you see today...


Read this one first, if you want more of how the events unfolded till the war I will tell you, till you come to the realization that Nigeria's biggest problem is injustice especially against the Igbos then you will keep throwing blames on the wrong things...


https://www.nairaland.com/2512622/how-igbos-treated-north-ena

https://www.nairaland.com/2512622/how-igbos-treated-north-ena#36761433

So you mean that Aburi meeting was convened in 1967 because Igbos were hated?
Okay, if that was the reason for convening the Aburi meeting, then how come there is nothing among the resolutions concerning how to make other tribes stop the alleged hating on Igbos?
And may I ask you which among the other tribes Igbos themselves love? Igbos themselves are full of hatred and superiority complex towards other tribes, so the hatred is just a matter of cause and effect. Okay look at the current scenario in Ghana whereby Igbos are trying to establish an Igbo king in another people's suzerainty. Which of the other 250 Nigerian tribes have you ever heard doing such a thing? Apart from Igbos, which other tribes have you ever heard terming Lagos a no-man's-land? Why did Ahmadu Bello focus on only Igbos in his press interview of 1955? Were people from other southern tribes not living in the Northern Region back then? Why didn't Ahmadu Bello find their behavior offensive? When everyone complains about your character, they can't all be wrong. It only means you have to check yourself. Even the Ikweres, Aniomas, and other Igboid tribes who are more or less your cousins resent being classified as Igbos despite they share language and culture similarities with you people. Can't you see that there is therefore something offensive about your attitude and which you have to address?

oga028315:
But from the list of participants, the people were drawn from almost all parts of Nigeria, are you saying all the other tribes involved in the participation were not smart enough to know it was an Igbo coup?

Whoever drew that list you pasted above can't claim to know about the coup more than Nzeogwu who was a major participant. According to Nzeogwu in his interview with Ejindu, there were just five of them in the plot.

All these long lists which later came out are damage control measures.

oga028315:
But from the list of participants, the people were drawn from almost all parts of Nigeria, are you saying all the other tribes involved in the participation were not smart enough to know it was an Igbo coup?

Whoever drew that list you pasted above can't claim to know about the coup more than Nzeogwu who was a major participant. According to Nzeogwu in his interview with Ejindu, there were just five of them in the plot.

All these long lists which later came out are damage control measures.

Please find Nzeogwu's words here about the coup. This is from the mouth of the horse itself
https://www.itrealms.com.ng/2022/09/history-never-dies-by-reno-omokri.html?m=1

Note where he said:

Ejindu: All right. A lot has been talked and written about the January coup. But how tribalistic was it really in conception and execution?

Nzeogwu: In the North, no. In the South, yes. We were five in number, and initially we knew quite clearly what we wanted to do.

oga028315:
Since you admit the plotters were all from various tribes of Nigeria, how is it now an Igbo coup?

It is rightly termed an Igbo coup not because of the ethnic composition of the plotters but because of the ethnic composition of the casualties.
If one or two top Igbo politicians who were part of the allegedly corruption government of the day had been killed as it was with top politicians of the other three regions, no one would have been tagging it an Igbo coup today even if the plotters were 100% Igbo. After all as it can be easily understood that Nigeria had as at that time in question not attained enough national integration for any shrewd coup plotter to trust someone from outside his tribe not to leak out a plot as risky as a coup d'etat.

So why was no single Igbo politicians in that government killed despite the allegations that the politicians holding portfolios in the government were too corrupt to bring about the Nigeria of their dreams? Were Igbo politicians saints?

rummmy:
Gowon was the genesis of all our problems

I dont think Gowon was the genesis of Nigerias problems but he certainly made it worse with his creation of states

Nigeria was just not workable. By 1960 when the British left, the country descended into anarchy. By 1962, a state of emergency had already been declared in in the Western Region, the 1963 census crisis, the 1964 election fiasco, Awolowo thrown into jail, coups and counter coups, civil war, it was just wahala. After the war ended, they said Nigeria would now have peace, unity and progress, only for multiple military coups to follow, long periods of military rule, one election crisis to another, fighting every where.

Nobody has seen peace, unity or progress since then. Nigeria is just a country that cant ever work and the main reason is that nothing bring us together except that the British brought together to fight forever

Deadlytruth:
It is rightly termed an Igbo coup not because of the ethnic composition of the plotters but because of the ethnic composition of the casualties.
If one or two top Igbo politicians who were part of the allegedly corruption government of the day had been killed as it was with top politicians of the other three regions, no one would have been tagging it an Igbo coup today even if the plotters were 100% Igbo. After all as it can be easily understood that Nigeria had as at that time in question not attained enough national integration for any shrewd coup plotter to trust someone from outside his tribe not to leak out a plot as risky as a coup d'etat.

So why was no single Igbo politicians in that government killed despite the allegations that the politicians holding portfolios in the government were too corrupt to bring about the Nigeria of their dreams? Were Igbo politicians saints?

The question you should be asking is why all the military men who were alive then who have written books never called it an igbo coup, some even went as far as declaring that it was never an igbo coup, are you saying they are telling lies?

Deadlytruth:
Whoever drew that list you pasted above can't claim to know about the coup more than Nzeogwu who was a major participant. According to Nzeogwu in his interview with Ejindu, there were just five of them in the plot.

All these long lists which later came out are damage control measures.

Please find Nzeogwu's words here about the coup. This is from the mouth of the horse itself
https://www.itrealms.com.ng/2022/09/history-never-dies-by-reno-omokri.html?m=1

Note where he said:

Ejindu: All right. A lot has been talked and written about the January coup. But how tribalistic was it really in conception and execution?

Nzeogwu: In the North, no. In the South, yes. We were five in number, and initially we knew quite clearly what we wanted to do.

Look at you using Reno's talk as evidence, was he even born then, the list I published was generated from AI culled from the pages of books written about the war, why not publish your full list and debunk my claim?

So you are saying only 5 men would conducted the entire coup?

Listen to yourself, are you for real?

Like I say you people love cropping out only the side you want to push your bias narrative, and that's what you have been doing all over...


So what you want to tell me now is that the January coup was only done by 5 people?

Deadlytruth:
So you mean that Aburi meeting was convened in 1967 because Igbos were hated?
Okay, if that was the reason for convening the Aburi meeting, then how come there is nothing among the resolutions concerning how to make other tribes stop the alleged hating on Igbos?
And may I ask you which among the other tribes Igbos themselves love? Igbos themselves are full of hatred and superiority complex towards other tribes, so the hatred is just a matter of cause and effect. Okay look at the current scenario in Ghana whereby Igbos are trying to establish an Igbo king in another people's suzerainty. Which of the other 250 Nigerian tribes have you ever heard doing such a thing? Apart from Igbos, which other tribes have you ever heard terming Lagos a no-man's-land? Why did Ahmadu Bello focus on only Igbos in his press interview of 1955? Were people from other southern tribes not living in the Northern Region back then? Why didn't Ahmadu Bello find their behavior offensive? When everyone complains about your character, they can't all be wrong. It only means you have to check yourself. Even the Ikweres, Aniomas, and other Igboid tribes who are more or less your cousins resent being classified as Igbos despite they share language and culture similarities with you people. Can't you see that there is therefore something offensive about your attitude and which you have to address?

You've clearly left the topic and started the usual hatred I'm still talking about but I will draw you back, and point of correction, it was not just hatred that led to the Aburi accord, they were actually killing Igbos and Ojukwu wanted the Nigerian government to put a stop to it which lead to the Aburi accord agreement in Ghana, which the Nigerian government failed to act on.

All the other nonsense you wrote to me are just diversionary moves and I want to stick to the topic,

The question you should ask is why were they killing the Igbos who were not killing them?

Deadlytruth:
What you are missing is the simple fact that Nwabueze's experienced about the dangers of centralization was more than the experience of all the other committee members' put together. This is because Nwabueze was the one who advised Ironsi to centralize power and resources twelve years earlier on and saw how it led to a constitutional crisis that culminated in a war that claimed millions of innocent lives all over Nigeria and also ended up institutionalizing corruption in Nigeria. So Nwabueze as head of the committee owed the other committee members the duty to first of all and before any voting on what to agree on, lecture and educate them on the dangers of centralization of power citing his own past mistake of 1966 as examples to deter those other Committee members if he Nwabueze had no ulterior motive. As at that time in question, who of the actors in the Ironsi administration could beat his chest in all honesty and claim that he had not come to realize courtesy of the war and constitutional crisis caused by Ironsi, that a better Nigeria could only be achieved through a return to the highly decentralized system we started with at independence and that the one Nigeria/, National Unity sloganeering was a huge fraud which held the potential to keep plunging Nigeria further into the doldrums? So why should Nwabueze join inexperienced committee members in taking decisions which were tilted in favour of the fraudulent national unity despite he himself having seen it all earlier on that centralization in the name of pursuing national unity was dangerous to the future of Nigeria?

Please can you provide proof to your statement that I bolded there before we continue because I didn't even bother reading the rest after that line. such claims to me require good proof...

gidgiddy:
I dont think Gowon was the genesis of Nigerias problems but he certainly made it worse with his creation of states

Nigeria was just not workable. By 1960 when the British left, the country descended into anarchy. By 1962, a state of emergency had already been declared in in the Western Region, the 1963 census crisis, the 1964 election fiasco, Awolowo thrown into jail, coups and counter coups, civil war, it was just wahala. After the war ended, they said Nigeria would now have peace, unity and progress, only for multiple military coups to follow, long periods of military rule, one election crisis to another, fighting every where.

Nobody has seen peace, unity or progress since then. Nigeria is just a country that cant ever work and the main reason is that nothing bring us together except that the British brought together to fight forever

I agree with you.. please include buhari in our problems..he wasn't fit at all to be a village head talk more of a president