₦airaland Forum

chimex38:
Interesting.
So I can't tell you to pray for me?

Jesus didn't teach his disciples to pray for anyone rather we are to TEACH you how to please God so you can open your own mouth to pray!

chimex38:
That's your belief.

Better!

MaxInDHouse:
Better!

Lol.. You sound like I am forcing you or disputing that.

chimex38:
Lol.. You sound like I am forcing you or disputing that.

My belief totally contradicts your belief so we aren't worshipers of the same God!🙂

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus didn't teach his disciples to pray for anyone rather we are to TEACH you how to please God so you can open your own mouth to pray!

Lol.. Now you are the one running away now, it's ok
So Paul, Peter, etc didn't pray for their brethren in their missions?

I can ask someone to pray for me, it doesn't stop me from praying.

(Probably I didn't word the qtn correctly).
at least you get the drift.

MaxInDHouse:
My belief totally contradicts your belief so we aren't worshipers of the same God!🙂

So I should be shaking cuz somehow you are the reference point?

chimex38:
Lol.. Now you are the one running away now, it's ok
So Paul, Peter, etc didn't pray for their brethren in their missions?
I can ask someone to pray for me, it doesn't stop me from praying.
(Probably I didn't word the qtn correctly). at least you get the drift.

It's unscriptural!
It's when a believer sin that the elders are asked to pray for him {James 5:14-15} and when a believer is in prison we can pray for him but for one brother to just ask for prayer from another it's not scriptural.

You have concluded that it's my beliefs so there is no need worrying yourself just know that my God differs from yours simple!🙂

chimex38:
So I should be shaking cuz somehow you are the reference point?

NO!
Once we disagree on what Jesus taught it simply means one of us doesn't accept Jesus as God introduced him to us:

“This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved. Listen to him.” Matthew 17:5

So instead of endless arguments on what the scriptures say it's better to end it and conclude we worship different Gods!🙂

MaxInDHouse:
It's unscriptural!
It's when a believer sin that the elders are asked to pray for him {James 5:14-15} and when a believer is in prison we can pray for him but for one brother to just ask for prayer from another it's not scriptural.

You have concluded that it's my beliefs so there is no need worrying yourself just know that my God differs from yours simple!🙂

Wait, wait.. I didn't think you were serious..
If I am taking an exam, or sick or weak in faith cuz of misdeeds, lost hope, etc, so I can't ask a brother or sister to pray for me?
You don't believe it will work?
It doesnt still stop any of the aforementioned from praying as well.

I believe we're serving same God in different ways..
It doesn't make the rest classified into a fixated wrong provided it's from the Bible or gospel as the case maybe.

chimex38:
.I believe we're serving same God in different ways..

God forbid!
If you are arguing against what the Bible says you can never ever be a worshiper of my God.
The order from God says "listen to my Son" {Matthew 17:5} and Jesus said "ask or pray in my name" John 14:14
So if you keep arguing that it's my belief then it means you don't believe in Jesus as the only begotten Son of God whom we must bow to whatever he says! Philippians 2:10🙂

MaxInDHouse:
NO!
Once we disagree on what Jesus taught it simply means one of us doesn't accept Jesus as God introduced him to us:

“This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved. Listen to him.” Matthew 17:5

So instead of endless arguments on what the scriptures say it's better to end it and conclude we worship different Gods!🙂

Naaa..
I have never disagreed on what Jesus taught, check all my responses.. You Just keep misrepresenting words. Not nice.
This was my response on screenshot below.
It includes Jesus + much more from gospel and NT.

If you are exclusive of Jesus why quote James in anointing the sick?

MaxInDHouse:
God forbid!
If you are arguing against what the Bible says you can never ever be a worshiper of my God.
The order from God says "listen to my Son" {Matthew 17:5} and Jesus said "ask or pray in my name" John 14:14
So if you keep arguing that it's my belief then it means you don't believe in Jesus as the only begotten Son of God whom we must bow to whatever he says! Philippians 2:10🙂

It's your interpretation, that's the right word to use and I won't argue with you.

You are not to judge what I believe.
But please enlighten me on the above questions raised on why it's wrong or sinful and not a choice?

chimex38:
Naaa..
I have never disagreed on what Jesus taught, check all my responses.. You Just keep misrepresenting words. Not nice.
This was my response on screenshot below.
It includes Jesus + much more from gospel and NT.
If you are exclusive of Jesus why quote James in anointing the sick?

James is following his brothers footstep {1Peter 2:21} saying a believer who sin should approach the elders whom Jesus chose to assist his flock.
But claiming Christians can pray to God in any other name apart from Jesus that is totally unscriptural it's not about belief but outright disobedience to God's word!🙂

chimex38:
You are not to judge what I believe.

I'm not judging what your believe i only told you God forbid that i should be your fellow worshiper when you insist on praying to your own God through another name apart from Jesus!

John 17: 9 & John 17:20
Jesus prayed for his disciples?

Paul prayed in Ephesians, 1:16-29
Philippines, colossians and 1Thessalonians 3:10
Etccc.

I don't get.
Maybe I misunderstand you.

MaxInDHouse:
I'm not judging what your believe i only told you God forbid that i should be your fellow worshiper when you insist on praying to your own God through another name apart from Jesus!

Again your interpretation..
suit yourself.

Not what this reply says to me
All prayers leads to Jesus.

chimex38:
Improper question-context.

Answer:
Pray through Jesus
Pray through Mary to intercede to Jesus
(I have listed verses in this thread that support her intercession ability through her and approval from Jesus).

chimex38:
John 17: 9 & John 17:20
Jesus prayed for his disciples?
Paul prayed in Ephesians, 1:16-29
Philippines, colossians and 1Thessalonians 3:10
Etccc.
I don't get.
Maybe I misunderstand you.

Jesus refused to pray for anyone who is demanding that's why he said:

I have given them the sayings that you gave me, and they have accepted them and have certainly come to know that I came as your representative, and they have believed that you sent me. I make request concerning them; I make request, not concerning the world. John 17:8-9

In fact he never prayed with them until that faithful day instead he will withdraw to pray ALONE! Matthew 14:23
So by the time he prayed with the twelve all others who are not ready to accept everything he taught has left him! John 6:66
Paul prayed for his fellow believers in Christ who are ready to bow to everything Jesus taught not some people meaning they are all in agreement! Matthew 18:20

chimex38:
Again your interpretation..
suit yourself.
Not what this reply says to me
All prayers leads to Jesus.

Praying through any other person is evil from God's standpoint because that's not what Jesus COMMANDED!🙂

MaxInDHouse:
James is following his brothers footstep {1Peter 2:21} saying a believer who sin should approach the elders whom Jesus chose to assist his flock.
But claiming Christians can pray to God in any other name apart from Jesus that is totally unscriptural it's not about belief but outright disobedience to God's word!🙂

It is your interpretation..
suit yourself..

I never used those words.
Keep repeating them to yourself. Keep "claiming"..
keep running away from my exact words. .
Keep gaslighting yourself with your chosen words...
They are here in this thread for others and generations to see and read.
It's not just about me and you..
(Thank God you cant edit and delete my posts )

chimex38:
It is your interpretation..
suit yourself..
I never used those words.
Keep repeating them to yourself. Keep "claiming"..
keep running away from my exact words. .
Keep gaslighting yourself with your chosen words...
They are here in this thread for others and generations to see and read.
It's not just about me and you..
(Thank God you cant edit and delete my posts )

Only one name is given both in heaven and on earth through which we should approach God in prayer! John 14:14
So if you are supporting anything apart from this i'm telling you now that you are not a worshiper of my own God!🙂

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus refused to pray for anyone who is demanding that's why he said:

I have given them the sayings that you gave me, and they have accepted them and have certainly come to know that I came as your representative, and they have believed that you sent me. I make request concerning them; I make request, not concerning the world. John 17:8-9

In fact he never prayed with them until that faithful day instead he will withdraw to pray ALONE! Matthew 14:23
So by the time he prayed with the twelve all others who are not ready to accept everything he taught has left him! John 6:66
Paul prayed for his fellow believers in Christ who are ready to bow to everything Jesus taught not some people meaning they are all in agreement! Matthew 18:20

Fair enough on Jesus but I don't agree yet.

On Paul, but why reference to Matt 18:20? that's kind of selective bias.
Anyway,
So with reference to Paul and your interpretation and connection down to Matt 18:20 my understanding is:
it's not that you can't pray for someone. But it must be with fellow believers in a group?

MaxInDHouse:
Only one name is given both in heaven and on earth through which we should approach God in prayer! John 14:14
So if you are supporting anything apart from this i'm telling you now that you are not a worshiper of my own God!🙂

Lol.. feeling himself as a reference..

Whatever rocks your boat. 🚣

However you look at it, that name in John 14:14 is also my final bustop. 🙂
I am more concerned about misrepresenting my words. It comes to you and the other guy easily.

In as much as I believe the essence of the packaged prayers was to honor her for saying yes out of her own free will to birth and serve the Lord(Luke 1:38)
2) as well as intercede on peoples behalf to the Lord our Saviour.
3)Help draw people closer to Jesus through her especially the young by serving as a role model with qualities they can emulate.

I have some reservations with the structure and some of these qualities I have seen
1)First criticism I have with the prayers of the catholic on Mary is that they don't teach it enough to the faithfuls. Word for word.
Most young children as we as matured members understand quite the general essence of Marys place but they don't really grasp the meaning of the wordings they chant..(rote learning).
This is necessary to improve the faith, absorb it's meaning and better explain it to new converts or inquirers.

2) Some wordings of the chants need to change.
A matured enlighten member may grasp the concept of the word "pray for us", but passive members and younger children see to it that they are "praying to Mary Only", which is outright idolatry on their part but innocently ignorant which is not excusable on the responsibilities of the church.
"Pray for us to God" should be a better phrase" no matter how lengthy and stressful it is.(Shey na them wan chant? )

3) some attributes on those supposedly listed qualities also needs to be explained in details, otherwise expunged totally to avoid misconception or attribute Godly qualities to Mary; it's otherwise idolatry and not honor e.g
Most powerful? Powerful in.. 🤷
-Queen of prophets? Was she ever a prophet?
-Ark of the covenant?!!!
A sacred ark that caused the death of many just for improper approach? That's akin to sacrilege of some sort
etc.......

Just like every religion one tries to make enquiry from, I believe they are not fools and have learned leaders but they seem to have become so lax in handling what shapes their view.

They may be basking in not caring who joins them or not or not lacking membership.
But whatever doctrine they allow to operate though with altruistic motive without control or regulation could be the very thing that eats them up on the last day if they don't purge them out (1Cor 5:13).

Dtruthspeaker:
So you admit that it is truly a pagan burial.

So you are calling what your village do paganism and not tradition?

Emusan:
It's evident you have no idea of what Original Sin means.

Original Sin means we inherited A NATURE that us prone to sin.

Mary womb or breast milk has nothing to do in human formation, womb is just a container where it takes place.

I believe the X & Y chromosome that formed JESUS human is the miracle The HOLY SPIRIT performed when visited Mary because both X&Y chromosome must come together first.

In today's world this act is called SURROGATE.

Which means the woman who carried the pregnancy never has anything in common with the baby as they can't have a match DNA.

Jesus Himself said "what goes into a man isn't what defiles a man" which means even when Jesus sucking the breasts of Mary as baby, that can't defile Him.

If X and Y chromosomes that formed Jesus were extraterrestrial, whence is the humanity of Jesus?

chimex38:
Fair enough on Jesus but I don't agree yet.
On Paul, but why reference to Matt 18:20? that's kind of selective bias.
Anyway,
So with reference to Paul and your interpretation and connection down to Matt 18:20 my understanding is:
it's not that you can't pray for someone. But it must be with fellow believers in a group?

I feel it's important to enlighten you so you won't think this is hatred.

This is the principle guiding prayer!

Note all cited Bible verses.

Each human is an image of God {Genesis 1:26} so we all supposed to have equal rights regarding direct communication with our heavenly father but due to Adamic sin we became unworthy to such a glorious relationship! Romans 3:23

So the Israelites with whom God entered into a covenant {Exodus 19:5} had a partial connection which isn't yet fully guaranteed until the coming of the Messiah (Christ) Deuteronomy 18:18-19 compare to John 4:25-26

But once anyone become a believer in Christ Jesus the connection becomes fully intact {John 1:11-12} that is why Jesus told those who believe in his words to pray directly to God alone in their closet {Matthew 6:6} since they are now God's children through faith in Christ Jesus.

The major reason why Christians pray as a group is to beg God for a group action that they want to embark on like boldness to preach together so once they come together and pray in line with what Jesus commanded them which is certainly according to God's will {1John 5:14} Jesus will be present through the holy spirit! Matthew 18:20

So there is no scriptural backing for one believer to ask for another believer to pray for him the only thing you can say is one person leading the prayer for the two not one praying for another!

advanceDNA:
Is her womb not her body??.....ur claim that she was made holy: so what was made holy??

If there must be a separate need to make Mary holy so as not to corrupt The Lord Jesus, then Joseph would have been made holy for both sperm and egg to make Jesus....

Which makes Ur line of argument is total fallacy...

Just as tagging Mary the mother of all believers is a truckload of fallacy ...

and Mary Being prayed to an even greater fallacy

Did Joseph impregnate Mary for Jesus to be birthed?

Truthseeker10:
that is why I'm asking. What was the original sin?

If as a supposed believer who is trying to lecture me on the right theology of Christianity, you don’t know Original Sin, then you have no reason to be talking to me nor was I even supposed to reply you in the first place.

Penguin2:
If as a supposed believer who is trying to lecture me on the right theology of Christianity, you don’t know Original Sin, then you have no reason to be talking to me nor was I even supposed to reply you in the first place.

That's the right way to TEACH you since you don't understand what you are saying!
Through rhetoric questions you will know exactly what you supposed to do.
So don't run away answer him and learn Catholic Church emerged through pagan traditions of Rome there is no correlation between Catholicism and the Christian faith of the first century!🤔

Dtruthspeaker:
Therefore you Admit that they never did such a thing despite your fallacious arguments.



Reverence is not "pray to".

So in the end you confirm that the apostles did not do these

Did Nnamdi Azikiwe, Awolowo and Ahmadu Bello honour themselves?

Pagans like oro festivals and satanists do processions, so therefore you say that their processions are not satanic because Joshua processed around Jericho?

Pagans also gather like the Osun River festival, etc.

Should I take it to mean that when you people gather at Redemption Camp that you are doing what pagans do or engaging in pagan practice?

Thank you admit that it was a "supper". So since when did dinner and dinning become a mass whatever that word means?

Even before and after Jesus's last supper, they had other suppers in different places, are those places also called mass?

What do you understand by Jesus’ command of “do this in remembrance of me” and why are you ignoring the fact that the Apostles continued to gather and pray and break the bread in Acts of the Apostles?

Were they engaging in pagan worship in Acts of the Apostle?

Tu quoque Fallacy. Also, you admit that they did not wear scapulas

Let me stop here for I tire.

Stick to providing logical disproval of my positions instead of labeling everything as fallacious.

How was the Apostles supposed to wear the Scapula with Jesus and Mary in their midst?

MaxInDHouse:
That's the right way to TEACH you since you don't understand what you are saying!
Through rhetoric questions you will know exactly what you supposed to do.
So don't run away answer him and learn Catholic Church emerged through pagan traditions of Rome there is no correlation between Catholicism and the Christian faith of the first century!🤔

You don’t come to me with Socratism.

Every Christian should know the concept of Original Sin. It’s the foundation of Christianity and the reason Christ came in the first place.

So, he either admits to know Original Sin and defines what he understands of it and then ask my understanding of it too or he should simply admit he doesn’t know what Original Sin is, at which point there will be no need to continue having theological discourse with him since he lacks the basest of basic knowledges.

Penguin2:
What do you understand by Jesus’ command of “do this in remembrance of me”

The remembrance of any event should be done how many times in a year?

Catholicism is fully paganism there is no remembrance of any event that happens two times within a year it supposed to be once at exact time and date each year!😂