₦airaland Forum

Penguin2:
You don’t come to me with Socratism.

Every Christian should know the concept of Original Sin. It’s the foundation of Christianity and the reason Christ came in the first place.

So, he either admits to know Original Sin and defines what he understands of it and then ask my understanding of it too or he should simply admit he doesn’t know what Original Sin is, at which point there will be no need to continue having theological discourse with him since he lacks the basest of basic knowledges.

Only Jesus died for mankind so all prayers to God should be made in Jesus name only!

Penguin2:
Did Joseph impregnate Mary for Jesus to be birthed?

Exactly....Joseph was not part of the equation.. because both Mary's egg and Joseph's sperm was not part of the birth ....

.If God first needed to first make the flesh holy for Jesus to not be corrupted of sin?? Then why exempt Joseph from the equation in the first place, when both Joseph and Mary could have been holy father and holy mother, and Jesus would have come the conventional way and still uncorrupted, ......which would have saved Mary the embarrassment of being thought to have slept with another man before her marriage to joseph ....??

See... Y'all Catholics created a need for Mary to first be made holy so u can have holy mother because Jesus revealed to us Holy father... But such need is a clear a fallacy because Jesus was the embodiment of the holy Spirit, not a product of the corruptible means of sex....

Penguin2:
Did Nnamdi Azikiwe, Awolowo and Ahmadu Bello honour themselves?

Invalid argument of Off Point/Change of Post

Penguin2:
Pagans also gather like the Osun River festival, etc.
Should I take it to mean that when you people gather at Redemption Camp that you are doing what pagans do or engaging in pagan practice?

Off Point/Change of Post

Is it that there is no way you can make any valid argument at all?

And just for fun, I lightly answer that every reasonable person has adjudged Osun river festival as a pagan practice but no reasonable person has adjudged going to Redeem camp a pagan practice.

But as I said this is off point so, you have not provided any valid counter to the issue.

Penguin2:
What do you understand by Jesus’ command of “do this in remembrance of me” and why are you ignoring the fact that the Apostles continued to gather and pray and break the bread in Acts of the Apostles?

This is Off Point too but I will address it.

The Passover and Sabbath and many other activities God commanded are "a do this in remembrance of Me". And they are done anywhere. And you people never called them mass.

Penguin2:
Stick to providing logical disproval of my positions instead of labeling everything as fallacious.

Do you not know that fallacy is The Law of disproving illogical and false and deceit filled arguments?

"A fallacy is a misleading or incorrect argument based on faulty reasoning. It is an argument that appears sound but is logically unsound. The term comes from the Latin "fallacia," meaning deceit.

And this is why everyone is telling you that Catholic church is deceiving you like Satan deceived female Adam.

Penguin2:
How was the Apostles supposed to wear the Scapula with Jesus and Mary in their midst?

Not our problem! As long as it is clear that you admit that they never did.

And as an obiter, you did say that redeem people wear the pictures of their g.o, so nothing stops the apostles from doing same.

But, the bottom line is that they never did and we all know that it is because it is unacceptable and it will be in breach of God's Command.

Penguin2:
If X and Y chromosomes that formed Jesus were extraterrestrial, whence is the humanity of Jesus?

Not extraterrestrial.

God created all X & Y chromosome, nothing is impossible for God to do.

Penguin2:
So you are calling what your village do paganism and not tradition?

Traditional practices are born out of paganism

advanceDNA:
Exactly....Joseph was not part of the equation.. because both Mary's egg and Joseph's sperm was not part of the birth ....

.If God first needed to first make the flesh holy for Jesus to not be corrupted of sin?? Then why exempt Joseph from the equation in the first place, when both Joseph and Mary could have been holy father and holy mother, and Jesus would have come the conventional way and still uncorrupted, ......which would have saved Mary the embarrassment of being thought to have slept with another man before her marriage to joseph ....??

See... Y'all Catholics created a need for Mary to first be made holy so u can have holy mother because Jesus revealed to us Holy father... But such need is a clear a fallacy because Jesus was the embodiment of the holy Spirit, not a product of the corruptible means of sex....

The church works from what God actually did, rather than 2nd guessing what He might have done with Joseph etc. God chose the manner of Jesus' incarnation and early christianity recognised Marys role as the Ark of the new Covenant. The theological conclusion can be seen feom  the way scripture presents her with several undeniable parallels in the NT compared the OT . Or do you think Luke was making the parallels by accident? (Compare 2Sam 6 2 -11 to Luke 1 35-56)

If you acknowledge Mary as the ark of the new covenant, it would be easier to understand the immaculate conception you currently disagree with. If the original Ark was prepared with care and sanctified for the presence of God (Ex 40.9). wouldn't it be fitting fornthe NT ark to have similar treatment or even better. Thisnis the catholic church teaching in immaculate conception of Mary

Obviously, youll need to accept the ark typology to better understand the catholic church teaching.

btoks:
The church works from what God actually did, rather than 2nd guessing what He might have done with Joseph etc. God chose the manner of Jesus' incarnation and early christianity recognised Marys role as the Ark of the new Covenant. The theological conclusion can be seen feom  the way scripture presents her with several undeniable parallels in the NT compared the OT . Or do you think Luke was making the parallels by accident? (Compare 2Sam 6 2 -11 to Luke 1 35-56)

If you acknowledge Mary as the ark of the new covenant, it would be easier to understand the immaculate conception you currently disagree with. If the original Ark was prepared with care and sanctified for the presence of God (Ex 40.9). wouldn't it be fitting fornthe NT ark to have similar treatment or even better. Thisnis the catholic church teaching in immaculate conception of Mary

Obviously, youll need to accept the ark typology to better understand the catholic church teaching.

Even if you go by the sanctification of the Ark, it stands to record that no one worshipped the Ark, so also no one should worship Mary.

Secondly, we saw how the Ark was sanctified, and by the Law, we can presume that Mary and Joseph are people who complied with the Law of sanctification and holiness as seen by their trips in going to Jerusalem.

Therefore, since they complied with God's Commands, it is only natural that God would use them exactly how He used Saul and David before they messed up and Esther too, so there is no big deal here.

Dtruthspeaker:
Even if you go by the sanctification of the Ark, it stands to record that no one worshipped the Ark, so also no one should worship Mary.

Secondly, we saw how the Ark was sanctified, and by the Law, we can presume that Mary and Joseph are people who complied with the Law of sanctification and holiness as seen by their trips in going to Jerusalem.

Therefore, since they complied with God's Commands, it is only natural that God would use them exactly how He used Saul and David before they messed up and Esther too, so there is no big deal here.

We've likely debated before, the fact is catholic, orthodox do not worship Mary as we've stated countless times. Worship (Latria) is given to the Trinity alone and you can see an exampleof this in the catholic mass. Prayer /request for intercession (even with pious flowery words) alone is not worship.

Mary is venerated with hyperdulia /given honour, just like the original Ark was. All the other saints are also venerated. Where some peopls might cross the line due to overzealous piety , the church corrects that. E.g. you may have read that the vatican has recently discouraged the use of co-redemptrix for Mary as it could cause confusion if not explained well

As I've stated before, God decided how the incarnation was to happen. It is clear that the OT ark imagery is fulfilled in the NT by Mary, which made her a unique case. She was greeted , Hail Full of Grace by angel Gabriel . And mother of my Lord by Elizabeth. These are not casual titles.

That is why the ark typology matters. Once it is recognised, the honour given to Mary is not an invention but a response to what God has done.

btoks:
The church works from what God actually did, rather than 2nd guessing what He might have done with Joseph etc.

lol....u are the one claiming Jesus that's already God needs Mary to first be holy to prevent him from being corrupted.......but I'm the one second guessing what God did.....u funny man

btoks:
God chose the manner of Jesus' incarnation and early christianity recognised Marys role as the Ark of the new Covenant.

lol.... U Catholics are weird ppl....u created a mother figure because there Jesus introduced to us God the father......Mary isnt even above Jesus in a anyway .....so painting a mother figure of her over jesus and all believers is the highest form of absurdity.

btoks:
The theological conclusion can be seen feom  the way scripture presents her with several undeniable parallels in the NT compared the OT .

Scripture ddnt present her in a way for you all to tag her as holy mother of all....yall Catholics are carnally driven..you are just creating a mummy and daddy figure that God ddnt present us.....He is the father and wants a Son relationship with us... There is no mother in the equation....

btoks:
If you acknowledge Mary as the ark of the new covenant,

ur knowledge of scripture is poor.....and it's because yall never read but only listen to the lies your vatican tell you..
.Go and read the books of the law and the teaching of Paul about the ark of the covenant so u can cleanse urself from this absurdity..

..the old testament clearly explains how Moses was told to build the ark of the covenant and tabernacle just like the original in heaven he was shown .....just as blood of unblemished sheep was shed in the copy for sins repeatedly, Jesus shed his blood for in reconciliation of man back to God entering the ark of the covenant ....the blood of Mary or flesh or wateva is not in the equation..
....
You are reducing the Altar in the of presence Almighty God with your carnality by claiming Mary is the ark....may God forgive you pple

btoks:
This is the catholic church teaching in immaculate conception of Mary

it is a principality level of of fallacy trying to deify Mary...she's not holy mother to any one.....

Jesus clearly rebuked her, when she was overly trying to carnal that "those who do the will of his father her his mother, brothers " as she was always trying to limit jesus as just her biological son that should be with her and her other children at home

btoks:
Obviously, youll need to accept the ark typology to better understand the catholic church teaching.

lol... Its against sound scripture to call Mary the ark....it's tantamount to blasphemy.....I cannot believe against what is already written ..... That's how y'all created Pope out of no where as holy father to also representing Jesus ...yall are just bunch of weird pple

advanceDNA:
lol....u are the one claiming Jesus that's already God needs Mary to first be holy to prevent him from being corrupted.......but I'm the one second guessing what God did.....u funny man

lol.... U Catholics are weird ppl....u created a mother figure because there Jesus introduced to us God the father......Mary isnt even above Jesus in a anyway .....so painting a mother figure of her over jesus and all believers is the highest form of absurdity.

Scripture ddnt present her in a way for you all to tag her as holy mother of all....yall Catholics are carnally driven..you are just creating a mummy and daddy figure that God ddnt present us.....He is the father and wants a Son relationship with us... There is no mother in the equation....

ur knowledge of scripture is poor.....and it's because yall never read but only listen to the lies your vatican tell you..
.Go and read the books of the law and the teaching of Paul about the ark of the covenant so u can cleanse urself from this absurdity..

..the old testament clearly explains how Moses was told to build the ark of the covenant and tabernacle just like the original in heaven he was shown .....just as blood of unblemished sheep was shed in the copy for sins repeatedly, Jesus shed his blood for in reconciliation of man back to God entering the ark of the covenant ....the blood of Mary or flesh or wateva is not in the equation..
....
You are reducing the Altar in the of presence Almighty God with your carnality by claiming Mary is the ark....may God forgive you pple

it is a principality level of of fallacy trying to deify Mary...she's not holy mother to any one.....

Jesus clearly rebuked her, when she was overly trying to carnal that "those who do the will of his father her his mother, brothers " as she was always trying to limit jesus as just her biological son that should be with her and her other children at home

lol... Its against sound scripture to call Mary the ark....it's tantamount to blasphemy.....I cannot believe against what is already written ..... That's how y'all created Pope out of no where as holy father to also representing Jesus ...yall are just bunch of weird pple

I'll take the teachings of the historical church of 2000 years witht the fullness of truth over your 2025 warped interpretations. Nuff said. Been there, done that.

Do some research and find out exactly why teachings including pope, even biblical canon are the way they are.

btoks:
We've likely debated before, the fact is catholic, orthodox do not worship Mary as we've stated countless times. Worship (Latria) is given to the Trinity alone and you can see an exampleof this in the catholic mass. Prayer /request for intercession (even with pious flowery words) alone is not worship.

Mary is venerated with hyperdulia /given honour, just like the original Ark was. All the other saints are also venerated. Where some peopls might cross the line due to overzealous piety , the church corrects that. E.g. you may have read that the vatican has recently discouraged the use of co-redemptrix for Mary as it could cause confusion if not explained well

As I've stated before, God decided how the incarnation was to happen. It is clear that the OT ark imagery is fulfilled in the NT by Mary, which made her a unique case. She was greeted , Hail Full of Grace by angel Gabriel . And mother of my Lord by Elizabeth. These are not casual titles.

That is why the ark typology matters. Once it is recognised, the honour given to Mary is not an invention but a response to what God has done.

Yes we have debated before and yes, the record shows you people denying it, exactly how an accused usually denies an offence alleged.

So, the next point is trial and proof of the offence by the accuser and defence raised by the accused.

And this is where you people fail for as this thread shows, the facts of your offences are shown and even you people the accused admit them so the trial moved to whether you people can raise any valid and lawful defence. And this is where you people fail pityfully for ALL the defences raised and offered do not stand as they were mostly fallacies or logically penalized answers or evasive answers, as you have just done in answer to the point you raised that Mary was sanctified like the Ark of the covenant which I replied to but here you are moving post to denial and explanation of your act which amounts to worship of Mary. For the spirit of the word "venerate" is worship even when the dictionary says "with great respect". But your acts shows that this is more than respect and that word "great" respect already shows that it has crossed the line.

And therefore, what stands is that you people have no defence to the accusation of your worshipping Mary, hence it is reasonably imputed that you are guilty of worshipping Mary.

So, yes, you people always deny it, but the records prove that you have no valid and lawful defence to the accusation, hence, you guys are guilty!

btoks:
I'll take the teachings of the historical church of 2000 years witht the fullness of truth over your 2025 warped interpretations. Nuff said. Been there, done that.

Do some research and find out exactly why teachings including pope, even biblical canon are the way they are.

I ddnt interpret anything....go and read the bible on your own u will see it clearly written what I said..m.no need of any complex interpretation......u are just lazy
.
..just as it is written clearly "though shall not lie" ....it was clearly written that Moses was told to build the tabernacle like the exact one he was shown and it was clearly written that Jesus entered that heavily ark by his blood to reconcile man back to himself..

The problem with y'all Catholics is that u don't read the bible.....

advanceDNA:
I ddnt interpret anything....go and read the bible on your own u will see it clearly written what I said..m.no need of any complex interpretation......u are just lazy
.
..just as it is written clearly "though shall not lie" ....it was clearly written that Moses was told to build the tabernacle like the exact one he was shown and it was clearly written that Jesus entered that heavily ark by his blood to reconcile man back to himself..

The problem with y'all Catholics is that u don't read the bible.....

Like jws the church tells them how they should read the Bible in the church's eyes.

advanceDNA:
I ddnt interpret anything....go and read the bible on your own u will see it clearly written what I said..m.no need of any complex interpretation......u are just lazy
.
..just as it is written clearly "though shall not lie" ....it was clearly written that Moses was told to build the tabernacle like the exact one he was shown and it was clearly written that Jesus entered that heavily ark by his blood to reconcile man back to himself..

The problem with y'all Catholics is that u don't read the bible.....

I've already seen by your tone of responses that it's not worth debating you as you will just resort to words like ' you are lazy' etc. I do you something before?

Tell me where we are to make our own individual conclusions or interpretations of what's in the scriptures? You think you know better than those closer to the time?

btoks:
I've already seen by your tone of responses that it's not worth debating you as you will just resort to words like ' you are lazy' etc. I do you something before?

Tell me where we are to make our own individual conclusions or interpretations of what's in the scriptures? You think you know better than those closer to the time?

Lol....u need the pope to interprete "thou shall not kill to you"...u need the pope to interprete the words of Jesus to you....

I know the history of the catholic church....they tell you yall are too unworthy to know God, too unholy to read and know what's in the bible...
The Vatican kept the bible locked away for years even from your own members......only the priest and Pope claim to know killing those who disagree the pope is not father...
....u can know the one ine father yourself or u can stick with your father the pope and mother Mary ...

Dtruthspeaker:
Like jws the church tells them how they should read the Bible in the church's eyes.

They dont even allow them read cos he clearly said they are not meant to understand it on their own...
...if the Pope tells them "thou shall not kill" interpretes a "thou shall not eat" ......that's final....

advanceDNA:
They dont even allow them read cos he clearly said they are not meant to understand it on their own...
...if the Pope tells them "thou shall not kill" interpretes a "thou shall not eat" ......that's final....

Yeah! Under the magic word called "mystery". And when they say that word I always ask them that mystery did not stop them from discovering how lightening and thunder play in the sky instead of staying in the mystery that it was the gods coughing and moving

Dtruthspeaker:
Yeah! Under the magic word called "mystery". And when they say that word I always ask them that mystery did not stop them from discovering how lightening and thunder play in the sky instead of staying in the mystery that it was the gods coughing and moving

Lol......Their pope just release new update different from the previous pope....

btoks how far......if I told u yesterday that the bible said that Jesus is the only redeemer and Mary nothing to do with it......u will say my interpretation is false.....
..ur pope has release update that the whole christian knew since 2000 years ago except you Catholics
..... Y'all have been claiming Mary is co redeemer.....very soon y'all will soon start saying Mary is greater than God ....

advanceDNA:
Lol......Their pope just release new update different from the previous pope....

btoks how far......if I told u yesterday that the bible said that Jesus is the only redeemer and Mary nothing to do with it......u will say my interpretation is false.....
..ur pope has release update that the whole christian knew since 2000 years ago except you Catholics
..... Y'all have been claiming Mary is co redeemer.....very soon y'all will soon start saying Mary is greater than God ....

Unfortunately, your erroneous adherence to sola scriptura doesn't let you understand howvthe church has worked for 2000 years. Even the bible that you currently reference had to be canonised by this same church you vilify. Where there are disagreements or unclear doctrines, the church comes in to clear things up just like it did on the judaizer issue in Acts 15.
There are so many teachings you take for granted now that had to be clarified by this same church centuries ago.
Try doing some research

By the way, try reading the document released by Vatican on the co reedemer matter. Co in this case and in historical use was meant as supporting the main person not equal to as modern ears might think. It's use has been discouraged in order not to create confusion.

advanceDNA:
Lol....u need the pope to interprete "thou shall not kill to you"...u need the pope to interprete the words of Jesus to you....

I know the history of the catholic church....they tell you yall are too unworthy to know God, too unholy to read and know what's in the bible...
The Vatican kept the bible locked away for years even from your own members......only the priest and Pope claim to know killing those who disagree the pope is not father...
....u can know the one ine father yourself or u can stick with your father the pope and mother Mary ...

You've got it all wrong. Jesus set up a church, the church was guven authority to bind and loose. (Please research what this means). Please Tell me how for the 1st 1500 years when the majority of people couldn't read how they so called read the bible. How did they understand what the teaching was. Do you really think everyone went around with a bible in their hand?
Please tell us what has now happened since every protestant/evangelical is their own pope.
What is the name of your church out of the mulitple thousand competing with differing teachings from sola scriptura ?

Also please could you let me know which church/cheistians it is that existed 2000 years
that is not the Catholic church.

btoks:
Unfortunately, your erroneous adherence to sola scriptura doesn't let you understand howvthe church has worked for 2000 years. Even the bible that you currently reference had to be canonised by this same church you vilify. Where there are disagreements or unclear doctrines, the church comes in to clear things up just like it did on the judaizer issue in Acts 15.
There are so many teachings you take for granted now that had to be clarified by this same church centuries ago.
Try doing some research

By the way, try reading the document released by Vatican on the co reedemer matter. Co in this case and in historical use was meant as supporting the main person not equal to as modern ears might think. It's use has been discouraged in order not to create confusion.

Oh....so Its to avoid confusion........but Mary is still co redeemer abi??
Mary that was telling Jesus to come home with her when he was doing the will of the father ....Mary that ddnt understand what the son came to do.....Mary Jesus had to rebuke that those who does his will are his mother and father ....is the same marry y'all are calling co-redeemer of souls??

Dtruthspeaker:
Like jws the church tells them how they should read the Bible in the church's eyes.

It's the year 360AD, majority of the population cannot read, you have never heard Revelations or Hebrews read as some places hadn't even received them due to disputes. Please tell me exactly these people were meant to have learnt about God's teachings. Do you really think everyone carried a bible about up to 400 years ago? In this context, do you really think Jesus would have established sola scriptura?

The church is what he set up to go out teaching and as the pillar and bulwark of truth and the power to bind and lose. Please read about the Ethiopian in Acts 8:26-31 and what he said about understanding scripture and needing a guide!

advanceDNA:
Oh....so Its to avoid confusion........but Mary is still co redeemer abi??
Mary that was telling Jesus to come home with her when he was doing the will of the father ....Mary that ddnt understand what the son came to do.....Mary Jesus had to rebuke that those who does his will are his mother and father ....is the same marry y'all are calling co-redeemer of souls??

You may disparage Blessed Virgin Mary all you want and come up with these warped interpretations unknown to early christianity .

Effectively the title is a theological definition to show that Mary cooperated with ,obeyed God to allow the Incarnation of Jesus.

btoks:
It's the year 360AD, majority of the population cannot read, you have never heard Revelations or Hebrews read as some places hadn't even received them due to disputes. Please tell me exactly these people were meant to have learnt about God's teachings. Do you really think everyone carried a bible about up to 400 years ago? In this context, do you really think Jesus would have established sola scriptura?

The church is what he set up to go out teaching and as the pillar and bulwark of truth and the power to bind and lose. Please read about the Ethiopian in Acts 8:26-31 and what he said about understanding scripture and needing a guide!

Are you still in the era when you cannot read? In church and crk were we not taught many things that we thought was in the bible only to later read the Bible to see that it was not there and vice versa?

Or in school were we not taught that the constitution is the highest law in the land only for me to grow up reading more to see that the constitution is itself unlawful and that Natural Law is the highest Law in the world?

Please, your argument holds no air.

advanceDNA:
Lol......Their pope just release new update different from the previous pope....

btoks how far......if I told u yesterday that the bible said that Jesus is the only redeemer and Mary nothing to do with it......u will say my interpretation is false.....
..ur pope has release update that the whole christian knew since 2000 years ago except you Catholics
..... Y'all have been claiming Mary is co redeemer.....very soon y'all will soon start saying Mary is greater than God ....

Like jw do!

btoks:
Unfortunately, your erroneous adherence to sola scriptura doesn't let you understand howvthe church has worked for 2000 years. Even the bible that you currently reference had to be canonised by this same church you vilify. Where there are disagreements or unclear doctrines, the church comes in to clear things up just like it did on the judaizer issue in Acts 15.
There are so many teachings you take for granted now that had to be clarified by this same church centuries ago.
Try doing some research

This is off Point!

btoks:
By the way, try reading the document released by Vatican on the co reedemer matter. Co in this case and in historical use was meant as supporting the main person not equal to as modern ears might think. It's use has been discouraged in order not to create confusion.

The word "co" nearly always means equality eg Akintola Williams and Co.

Of which, you people have even made her greater than Jesus

Holy Mother of God, (Greater than Christ)
pray for us.
Holy Virgin of virgins,
pray for us.
Mother of Christ,
pray for us.
Mother of divine grace, (Equal to Christ)
pray for us.
Mother most pure,(Equal to Christ)
pray for us.
Mother most chaste,
pray for us.
Mother inviolate, (Equal to Christ) -
pray for us.
Mother undefiled, (Equal to Christ)
pray for us.
amiable,
pray for us.
Mother most admirable,
pray for us.
Mother of good counsel,
pray for us.
Mother of our Creator,
pray for us.
Mother of our Savior,
pray for us.
Virgin most prudent,
pray for us.
Virgin most venerable,
pray for us.
Virgin most renowned,
pray for us.
Virgin most powerful,
pray for us.
Virgin most merciful,
pray for us.
Virgin most faithful,
pray for us.
Mirror of justice,
pray for us.
Seat of wisdom, (Equal)
pray for us.
Cause of our joy, (Equal)
pray for us.
Spiritual vessel,
pray for us.
Vessel of honor,
pray for us.
Singular vessel of devotion, {Equal)
pray for us.
Mystical rose,
pray for us.
Tower of David, (Equal)
pray for us.
Tower of ivory,
pray for us.
House of gold,
pray for us.
Ark of the Covenant, (Equal)
pray for us.
Gate of Heaven,
pray for us.
Morning star, (Equal)
pray for us.
Health of the sick,
pray for us.
Refuge of sinners,
pray for us.
Comforter of the afflicted,
pray for us.
Help of Christians,
pray for us.
Queen of angels,
pray for us.
Queen of patriarchs,
pray for us.
Queen of prophets,
pray for us.
Queen of apostles,

You people are sitting right in the middle of violation

btoks:
You may disparage Blessed Virgin Mary all you want and come up with these warped interpretations unknown to early christianity .

Effectively the title is a theological definition to show that Mary cooperated with ,obeyed God to allow the Incarnation of Jesus.

Interpretation?? Is ur own bible about Mary alone...don't u have account of Jesus ministry in your own bible....read it naaa...or ur pope also told you u are too unholy to know what's in it...

By the way An angel appeared to Joseph and by instruction, he helped carried Jesus to Egypt when herod declared the killing of children to get him...why don't u call joseph co-redeemer because even with the birth of Jesus....without Joseph cooperating with the angel herod would have gotten him...

U are cherry picking co-redeemer title...

btoks:
It's the year 360AD, majority of the population cannot read, you have never heard

Lies lies lies....a lot of people could still read... The bible was just expensive to own because it had to be hand written to make copies.... But the Catholic church ddnt want pple to have it claiming custodian of it and using the words to manipulate the people under the rule of the monarch who in turn gave them money...

....the Catholic church was claiming sole interpreter of the Bible beyond 360Ad ....yall killed people u tagged protestant, burnt them just because they disagree with y'all that the pope isn't holy father in earth, and your pagan traditions, which has no root in Christ's teachings

When King James translated the bible, y'all declared it bible false..
Till today....u prevent your members from reading it just as members couldn't even have access thousands of years ago ..and that's why y'all are so blinded to basic knowledge of the word of God


In 2025. After thousands of years....ur pope is just telling you Mary is not co-redeemer....u elivate Mary to the level of Savior so much that u tag her ark of the new covenant.... Please pick up a bible and read....its blasphemy to call Mary the ark of the living God

Dtruthspeaker:
Are you still in the era when you cannot read? In church and crk were we not taught many things that we thought was in the bible only to later read the Bible to see that it was not there and vice versa?

Or in school were we not taught that the constitution is the highest law in the land only for me to grow up reading more to see that the constitution is itself unlawful and that Natural Law is the highest Law in the world?

Please, your argument holds no air.

Please think, the majority could not read until relatively recently. How could each individual making their own conclusion about the bible could have been the way Jesus set things up! You are reading things through 21st century mindset. How about the christians in the 1st 1500years? What did Jesus say about the church he set up and to the apostles ( Sending helper, he who hears you hears me etc - please see entire NT context)

btoks:
Please think, the majority could not read until relatively recently. How could each individual making their own conclusion about the bible could have been the way Jesus set things up! You are reading things through 21st century mindset. How about the christians in the 1st 1500years? What did Jesus say about the church he set up and to the apostles ( Sending helper, he who hears you hears me etc - please see entire NT context)

Even us in Nigeria could we read in 1901? But when we all could read, could we not still appreciate any period whether pre colonial period or pre Socratic period?

Or did you not hear that
The more that you read, the more things you will know. The more you learn, the more places you'll go." – Dr. Seuss

"To read is to voyage through time." – Carl Sagan

“A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies . . . The man who never reads lives only one.” -George R.R. Martin

Please, your argument no enter at all.

Emusan:
Not extraterrestrial.

God created all X & Y chromosome, nothing is impossible for God to do.

But you believe it’s impossible for God to have made Mary holy?

Penguin2:
But you believe it’s impossible for God to have made Mary holy?

Where did I say this?

You don't even understand scripture