₦airaland Forum

Yes, they did. They perpetuated and celebrated Oct 7

DeepSight:
Look what you wrote earlier.

Onlinetutor7:
You said the current War did not start with October 7, I said it did.

If you can give the pre-october 7 account of this current war (History) I will debate you on it

+
I have replied. I said the occupation of the last 70 years.

Onlinetutor7:
Yes, they did. They perpetuated and celebrated Oct 7

+
In the context of this thread which is talking about civilians then you are saying the entire civilian population are legitimate targets for the IDF to kill. Thats the direct implication of what you are saying.

Oct 7 remains the cause of the current War. Gazans have been shielding and celebrated the atrocities of Hamas on Oct 7, the War is a collateral damage and a lesson for all Gazans.

DeepSight:
Look what you wrote earlier.

What is going on in Gaza is a War. There must be civilian casualties in a war. Most especially when the civilians are acting as a human shield because they have same ideology as the terrorist group.

DeepSight:
+
In the context of this thread which is talking about civilians then you are saying the entire civilian population are legitimate targets for the IDF to kill. Thats the direct implication of what you are saying.

gawu1:
I wonder how you would describe the Israeli genocidal apartheid action in Gaza if a fraction of it were happening here. You want the violence happening in Nigeria, perpetrated by a group of criminal terrorists and bandits, to be labeled genocide just to target certain individuals you dislike, even though those individuals are not involved. Yet, you refuse to acknowledge the clear genocide taking place in Gaza simply because of your disdain for the victims involved.

First of all, when we talk about Christian genocide in Nigeria, stop trying to deliberately lump it together with the activities of bandits and Boko Haram. The genocide in Nigeria started since the 90s and has been happening till date. The major perpetrators (not the only but the major) are Fulani armed gangs, and the US was very clear about that. Your gaslighting with trying to mix these people up with the general insecurity in Nigeria is distasteful, classless and a horrible image of your group of Tinubu supporters.

You're even afraid to mention exactly who they are, armed Fulani gangs (terrorists). The way you're going, you'll even disown yourself rather than call them out. Even Fulanis, Hausas, and northerners are calling these terrorists out, disowning them, owning up that they are violent members from their communities perpetrating these atrocities on Christians, but here you are rambling with words to cover them up.

But here you are with loud mouth cho cho cho about Israeli Palestinian conflict.

Tueh.

The Jews have a longer history on the land that goes beyond 70 years

DeepSight:
+
I have replied. I said the occupation of the last 70 years.

Onlinetutor7:
What is going on in Gaza is a War. There must be civilian casualties in a war. Most especially when the civilians are acting as a human shield because they have same ideology as the terrorist group.

+
You are still implicating all civilians - some two million people!

Secondly saying that they are a human shied is absurd.

Israel does not permit any military base in Gaza.

Therefore where do you expect Hamas to be? On the moon?

Of course they will be within the population, where else would they be?

And so long as they are there, Israel will make the excuse that the civilians are being used as a human shield.

Tell me where on Earth Hamas is expected to be, even when the ENTIRE population is surrounded by Israel and not permitted to go in or out?

It is an absurd excuse.

Also you are still wrong when you think this is a special different war that started on October 7.

Nope, it is one and the same so called war (but really occupation) which has been going on for decades even before Hamas existed.

Onlinetutor7:
The Jews have a longer history on the land that goes beyond 70 years

+
Of course.

So do the Arabs - 1, 300 years about! They are also indigenous there.

Jews were there before, just as surely as Canaanites where there before Jews - and Jews slaughtered them and took over!

You cant be one sided. Thats why I said, just start from 70 years, if you want to go back in history, I will show you where we broke it down, myself and a pro-Israeli poster. Its waaaaaaay deeper.

I sha hope you are not one of those who will claim history and end by saying it is the promised land given by God to Jews.

Over the past decade there have been attacks on Israel from Hamas and Israels response have been mild and specific to avoid escalation
‎
‎October 7, was an insult beyond measure
‎
‎We saw our Palestinians were rejoicing on the Street.
‎
‎Israel had to respond in the manner they did, to crush the spirit of the Palestinians so that next time they won't dare
‎
‎Such celebration is a moral booster for Hamas
‎
‎Gazans messed up in celebrating Oct 7

DeepSight:
+
You are still implicating all civilians - some two million people!

Secondly saying that they are a human shied is absurd.

Israel does not permit any military base in Gaza.

Therefore where do you expect Hamas to be? On the moon?

Of course they will be within the population, where else would they be?

And so long as they are there, Israel will make the excuse that the civilians are being used as a human shield.

Tell me where on Earth Hamas is expected to be, even when the ENTIRE population is surrounded by Israel and not permitted to go in or out?

It is an absurd excuse.

Also you are still wrong when you think this is a special different war that started on October 7.

Nope, it is one and the same so called war (but really occupation) which has been going on for decades even before Hamas existed.

Onlinetutor7:
Over the past decade there have been attacks on Israel from Hamas and Israels response have been mild and specific to avoid escalation
‎
‎October 7, was an insult beyond measure
‎
‎We saw our Palestinians were rejoicing on the Street.
‎
‎Israel had to respond in the manner they did, to crush the spirit of the Palestinians so that next time they won't dare
‎
‎Such celebration is a moral booster for Hamas
‎
‎Gazans messed up in celebrating Oct 7

ALL GAZANS?

I am sure you saw two million people celebrating right? Which camera captured the celebration of two million people?

As per the history -

https://www.nairaland.com/8503521/gaza-city-razed-hamas-does/7#136560185

https://www.nairaland.com/8503521/gaza-city-razed-hamas-does/8#136638178

Go through these.

You will also find the responses of Unbiased1 there which he deserves credit for.

No matter what, never celebrate the murder of civilians. I do not celebrate the murder by Hamas of civilians either.
We should just be frank and admit that one thing leads to another.

You make it sound as though Israel was a quiet nation not forcefully occupying the Palestinians and not seizing lands on the West Bank and not killing hundreds there and suddenly, one Hamas came from the moon and attacked them on October 7.

That is just wrong.

Anyone who is objective knows that both sides have done wrong things, the minute you say its only one side, you are not objective.

‎The Jews have a upper hand in their claim to the land over Arabs.
‎
‎Beside Arab and Jews are both ancient races.
‎Arabs are occupying over 20 countries but just 1 tiny country being set as the home of Jews becomes a problem.

DeepSight:
+
Of course.

So do the Arabs - 1, 300 years about! They are also indigenous there.

Jews were there before, just as surely as Canaanites where there before Jews - and Jews slaughtered them and took over!

You cant be one sided. Thats why I said, just start from 70 years, if you want to go back in history, I will show you where we broke it down, myself and a pro-Israeli poster. Its waaaaaaay deeper.

I sha hope you are not one of those who will claim history and end by saying it is the promised land given by God to Jews.

Civilians are bound to die in war. The number of civilians who celebrated October 7, is far beyond number of civilians who have lost their lifes and they did so because they are being used as human shields by Hamas. Hamas caused their death

DeepSight:
ALL GAZANS?

I am sure you saw two million people celebrating right? Which camera captured the celebration of two million people?

As per the history -

https://www.nairaland.com/8503521/gaza-city-razed-hamas-does/7#136560185

https://www.nairaland.com/8503521/gaza-city-razed-hamas-does/8#136638178

Go through these.

You will also find the responses of Unbiased1 there which he deserves credit for.

No matter what, never celebrate the murder of civilians. I do not celebrate the murder by Hamas of civilians either.
We should just be frank and admit that one thing leads to another.

You make it sound as though Israel was a quiet nation not forcefully occupying the Palestinians and not seizing lands on the West Bank and not killing hundreds there and suddenly, one Hamas came from the moon and attacked them on October 7.

That is just wrong.

Anyone who is objective knows that both sides have done wrong things, the minute you say its only one side, you are not objective.

Onlinetutor7:
Civilians are bound to die in war. The number of civilians who celebrated October 7, is far beyond number of civilians who have lost their lifes and they did so because they are being used as human shields by Hamas. Hamas caused their death

+
Collateral damage is different from targeting civilians.

And also please stop this human shield thing. I asked you where Hamas will live if not within the population when Israel does not permit military barracks? Will they have lived on the moon?

You have to understand what you are saying. Do you mean the civilians population and the military population (Hamas) should have been separated and if so, just tell me how exactly. Because it is impossible when you are talking about an occupied space where the occupier does not allow military installations of the occupied people.

You mentioned knowledge of history and thats the only reason I responded to you.

Show that knowledge. Its alot of reading but when you l have time, see the links i shared with you. As I said, dont read just mine, read the very good rebuttals offered me by Unbiased1, and thats how I respect a person. Because even when disagreeing he is very well read.

Arabs took over after the Roman conquest.

The Jews were the ones conquered by Romans before Arabs ever taught of taking over the land.

Romans have more claim on the land than even Arabs, let alone comparing Arabs and Jews

DeepSight:
+
Of course.

So do the Arabs - 1, 300 years about! They are also indigenous there.

Onlinetutor7:
Arabs took over after the Roman conquest.

The Jews were the ones conquered by Romans before Arabs ever taught of taking over the land.

Romans have more claim on the land than even Arabs, let alone comparing Arabs and Jews

+
No, Romans do not. They have not dwelt there for 1, 300 years, never.

Also Jews removed people forcefully from same lands. They didnt fall from heaven magically onto that land.

Abraham, their father, was from Iraq.

And both Jews and Arabs are semitic people.

Your history is still surface history. Not deep studying. Try visit the links when you have say one hour free.

And just drop the bias. I am not Jew, I am not Arab, neither do I have any as relatives. In fact I dont believe in Islam, Judaism or even Christianity. Adopt a balanced stand.

Oct 7, proved that Hamas was a terrorist group and not Palestinian Military as they cared not about the catastrophe they were bringing on Palestines.

Gazans were shielding Hamas because they taught Hamas had a profitable objective but now they will have the option to purge them out and live in peace with their neighbors.

DeepSight:
+


You have to understand what you are saying. Do you mean the civilians population and the military population (Hamas) should have been separated and if so, just tell me how exactly. Because it is impossible when you are talking about an occupied space where the occupier does not allow military installations of the occupied people.

Onlinetutor7:
Oct 7, proved that Hamas was a terrorist group and not Palestinian Military as they cared not about the catastrophe they were bringing on Palestines.

Gazans were shielding Hamas because they taught Hamas had a profitable objective but now they will have the option to purge them out and live in peace with their neighbors.

+
Anyway, I have said as much as I can say. Just remember that its easy to call oppressed fighters terrorist. I will never be tired of saying that Mandela was called same by Britain and America - even the ANC, which is the ruling party in South Africa today - they were branded terrorists by Margaret Thatcher.

Look at your post, you say Hamas was not "Palestinian Military" - LOL - as if any formal Palestinian Military was EVER allowed!

If you are asked about Israeli terrorism you will probably say it doesnt exist.

Let me stop here before my people will come again and say I am a terrorist sympathizer and Hamas Spokesman.

Onlinetutor7:
You guys will be shouting history, if I decide to debate you now on the history you will still run.

Bring it on na, since you hate the truth

89green:
Bring it on na, since you hate the truth

+
He's failed already.

Romans conquered the Jews in 1st century C.E.

The Arabs took over in 6th Century C.E. After almost 400 years

Ottoman empire also had their era of country, before it finally fell to Britain.

Every historical book about that land always talks the Roman empire and it's espionage. Arabs came in after the Romans.
These are Facts.

DeepSight:
+
No, Romans do not. They have not dwelt there for 1, 300 years, never.

Romans conquered the Jews in 1st century C.E.

The Arabs took over in 6th Century C.E. After almost 400 years

Ottoman empire also had their era of countrol, before it finally fell to Britain.

Every historical book about that land always talks about the Roman empire and it's espionage. Arabs came in after the Romans.
These are Facts.

Go and study the individual history of this empires you will see when each took control of the land and who they met there.

DeepSight:
+
No, Romans do not. They have not dwelt there for 1, 300 years, never.

You only succeeded in stating that Gazans are in full support of Hamas and their atrocities as captured in their Oct 7 celebration of you say they are their Military and not a terrorist group

Let them partake of the consequences of October 7. It's a War and there is no Love in War.

DeepSight:
+

Look at your post, you say Hamas was not "Palestinian Military" - LOL - as if any formal Palestinian Military was EVER allowed!
.

As long as Gazans see Hamas as their military "as said by the Hamas spokeman on NL" and not as a terrorist group then Gazans deserve whatsoever befalls them, when their neighbors respond to terror attacks from their military.

I had a little pity for them, but now I feel they should suffer same fate since they don't see Hamas as a terror group but "their military"

DeepSight:
+
Collateral damage is different from targeting civilians.

And also please stop this human shield thing. I asked you where Hamas will live if not within the population when Israel does not permit military barracks? Will they have lived on the moon?

You have to understand what you are saying. Do you mean the civilians population and the military population (Hamas) should have been separated and if so, just tell me how exactly. Because it is impossible when you are talking about an occupied space where the occupier does not allow military installations of the occupied people.

You mentioned knowledge of history and thats the only reason I responded to you.

Show that knowledge. Its alot of reading but when you l have time, see the links i shared with you. As I said, dont read just mine, read the very good rebuttals offered me by Unbiased1, and thats how I respect a person. Because even when disagreeing he is very well read.

You said the Occupier did not allow military installations of the occupied people. Did you know that Palestinians have their own Police and Civil Defence in both Gaza and the West Bank operated by Hamas and Palestinian Authority? Did you know that these Police and Civil Defence forces are allowed to carry assault rifles and other hand held weapons? They have their headquarters, various stations and formations across Gaza and the West Bank. Gaza and Israel are very small territories. In Israel, due to the proximity of their Military bases to civilian sites, the Israeli government setup sirens to warn the citizens of any incoming threat. In Israel, it is also compulsory for all new houses to have a bomb shelter where its citizens can quickly run to for protection from bomb blasts. In Gaza, Hamas spends millions of dollars building tunnels. These tunnels are just as effective as the bomb shelters in Israel. What stopped Hamas fighters from fighting on the ground while Palestinian civilians run into these tunnels anytime there is a confrontation between IDF troops and Hamas fighters? Even the political leader of Hamas said in an interview that the death of Palestinians is in line with their course and here you are trying to whitewash Hamas of using its own people as Human shields.

Onlinetutor7:
Romans conquered the Jews in 1st century C.E.

The Arabs took over in 6th Century C.E. After almost 400 years

Ottoman empire also had their era of country, before it finally fell to Britain.

Every historical book about that land always talks about the Roman empire and it's espionage. Arabs came in after the Romans.
These are Facts.

Romans conquered the Jews in the First Century C.E?

In short you are saying they hadn't conquered Jews before Christ. They had. Get elementary facts right.

Maybe you are referring to the Roman destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, after which most Jews went into diaspora.

So if according to you, Romans were there for 400 years, tell me how that is superior to Arabs who have been there for 1,300 years?

You don't even understand basic history. I gave you links to look at demographics throughout history, no you can't.

DeepSight:
+
Anyway, I have said as much as I can say. Just remember that its easy to call oppressed fighters terrorist. I will never be tired of saying that Mandela was called same by Britain and America - even the ANC, which is the ruling party in South Africa today - they were branded terrorists by Margaret Thatcher.

Look at your post, you say Hamas was not "Palestinian Military" - LOL - as if any formal Palestinian Military was EVER allowed!

If you are asked about Israeli terrorism you will probably say it doesnt exist.

Let me stop here before my people will come again and say I am a terrorist sympathizer and Hamas Spokesman.

So to you, Hamas is not a terrorist group? A group that attacked another country, went on a killing spree of every human being it could find on the road, and justified its actions with it's religion is not a terrorist group? So if the Biafran agitators match into Abuja, start killing anyone they feel is a Nigerian, launch 5000 rockets into Abuja neighborhoods to kill and destroy as many as possible and still kidnap 251 people, will you still call them freedom fighters?

Now you have agreed to the fact that the Jews were the ones in the Land before the Romans conquered them and that Arabs only came in centuries later.

You can only argue right to the land between the Romans and Arabs.

The Jews is way before both.

DeepSight:
Romans conquered the Jews in the First Century C.E?

Flows001:
This same Iran wey Israeli Jets use their skies do training, or E get another one somewhere?

Why did they stop it then

nedu666:
The people isis killed in Iraq, Sudan, Syria we never heard op lament

The fact that you are comparing Israeli IDF to ISIS is all the evidence needed to show Israel is a terrorist and rogue state.

Unbiased1:
You said the Occupier did not allow military installations of the occupied people. Did you know that Palestinians have their own Police and Civil Defence in both Gaza and the West Bank operated by Hamas and Palestinian Authority? Did you know that these Police and Civil Defence forces are allowed to carry assault rifles and other hand held weapons? They have their headquarters, various stations and formations across Gaza and the West Bank. Gaza and Israel are very small territories. In Israel, due to the proximity of their Military bases to civilian sites, the Israeli government setup sirens to warn the citizens of any incoming threat. In Israel, it is also compulsory for all new houses to have a bomb shelter where its citizens can quickly run to for protection from bomb blasts. In Gaza, Hamas spends millions of dollars building tunnels. These tunnels are just as effective as the bomb shelters in Israel. What stopped Hamas fighters from fighting on the ground while Palestinian civilians run into these tunnels anytime there is a confrontation between IDF troops and Hamas fighters? Even the political leader of Hamas said in an interview that the death of Palestinians is in line with their course and here you are trying to whitewash Hamas of using its own people as Human shields.

+
Pls when we say certain things let us be fair. Police supervised strictly by Israel in the West Bank do not amount to military installations. You know very well that nowhere in the world is a police establishment the same as military installations.

Secondly it is untrue that Israel allows armed local police in Gaza. Armed by who? They would simply see that as terrorists.

Pls don't make unfair comparisons. You talk about bomb shelters in Israel, a nuclear state protected by the richest and most powerful country in the world, and you compare that to Hamas tunnels. That's very unfair.

A captured and imprisoned population with a rag tag group of fighters among them is what you want to compare to the protection of the worlds best technology and wealthiest nation as it's ally.

And you say, oh, they should separate by sending the civilians into those rag tag tunnels and go and stand as sitting ducks on the surface where unmanned drones will just pick them off, and even the civilians will not be safe in the rag tag dungeons. This is just absurd.

You are not comparing first world security, technology and finances to third world, you are comparing quantum technology to that of a group of mosquitoes fleeing into a shoe from insecticide.

Facts
1. The Jews were in the land before the Arabs came after the Jews were conquered by Romans

2. Amongst all the empires that have taken control, the Jews have stayed longer on the Land. They have lived on the land for close to 3000 years.

Onlinetutor7:
Now you have agreed to the fact that the Jews were the ones in the Land before the Romans conquered them and that Arabs only came in centuries later.

You can only argue right to the land between the Romans and Arabs.

The Jews is way before both.