₦airaland Forum

Once a General is always a General no matter what.

Richtaiwo:
If you know the retirement benefits of retired service chiefs, you won't be asking this question.

Now, let me answer your question:

Yes, the retired naval chief can issue command order to soldiers. If you listen to that clip very well, the naval guy said he was the security officer to the retired naval chief. So who do you think the naval guy and those soldiers get directive from?

Irrelevant


Read the thread again

Can any officer, retired or serving, countermand an order by the Commander-in-Chief, even where such order is given by his direct representative, which in this case is Wike acting as FCT Minister directly appointed by the C-in-C?

This thread isn't about how much those retirees earn ...If they can so issue orders, why are some of them not in the North-East commanding troops against ISWAP and ISIS?

Or are their powers to issue orders only against perceived "bloody civilians'?

buygala:
Wike was acting on the President's instructions until proven otherwise, having been directly appointed by him ...

Your Soldiers impeded his function as the C-in-C's direct representative...That's a Mutiny or even treason...

Unless you have proof that Wike was not at that land as FCT Minister, please rest

Wike is a cabinet minister.

When the soldier told him he was acting on order, the most appropriate action is for Wike to find out whose order is the soldier acting on. After that, call the oga and tell him to provide the documents or vacate the land. As a minister, you don't go out flexing muscles with soldiers, that is the height of irresponsibility as a minister.

I want to believe that those navy officers were stationed there by the current service chiefs. They protect themselves and they see an injury to one as an injury to all of them.

buygala:
Irrelevant


Read the thread again

Can any officer, retired or serving, countermand an order by the Commander-in-Chief, even where such order is given by his direct representative, which in this case is Wike acting as FCT Minister directly appointed by the C-in-C?

This thread isn't about how much those retirees earn ...If they can so issue orders, why are some of them not in the North-East commanding troops against ISWAP and ISIS?

Or are their powers to issue orders only against perceived "bloody civilians'?

I responded based on the caption, take it to a person who understands English to help you with appropriate heading. Because the heading is different from your argument.

Just demote him as an example to others as he must know that he can’t hide behind taking an order from a Civilian and his actions sought to intimidate Wike.

buygala:
A whole lot has been said about Wike's Drama with that Navy Officer on a landed property in Abuja

Even a former Chief of Army Staff General Buratai (rtd) has weighed in ,calling Wike's action a threat to national security ...This is not the time and place for me to say what I think of General Buratai and his stint as Chief of Army Staff...But i can guarantee you that they are not palatable thoughts...

Now the questions that some of us want answers to are these:

1...Does a retired officer (in this case the retired Chief of Naval Staff) have a right to still issue valid orders to a soldier, much less to issue such orders to override a serving Minister of the Federal Republic?..Moreso that the Minister in this case is the Minister of the FCT, who unlike any State Governor, is a direct appointee of the Commander-in-Chief?

2..What is a soldier doing guarding a property that is not a designated property of the Nigerian Armed forces, or even a subject of national Interest, even to the extent of refusing the Chief FCT administrator (A representative of the C-in-C) into said property?

3....As Wike was appointed FCT Minister by the President who is the C-in-C and not elected like other Governors, doesn't that mean he is until proven otherwise, standing in the C-in-C's stead when he went to that property?...Then what right does a retired Officer (regardless of rank held) to issue orders restricting the representative of the C-in-C from entering said property that is neither a military installation or a place of designated security interest?

At this point, I think the Armed forces have overstepped their bounds, regardless of Wike's behavior which is a topic for another day...No serving officer, much less a retired one has any right to stand in the way of any representative of the Commander in Chief, as same is tantamount to a coup/Mutiny...

What happened yesterday in Abuja to Wike, is to call a spade a spade, a Mutiny directly against the President who appointed Wike to oversee the FCT administration...Simple and Short ...For all intents and purposes it's as if that youngling officer stood in the way of the President when he came to inspect that property..

And Yes... That officer needs to be immediately court-martialled for Mutiny and that his retired oga who sent him dealt with to the full extent of the law...These people need to be made an example of, especially in light of the recent coup allegations flying around...

A retired officer's orders overriding that of the President's representative is to say the least, outright madness, which if not nipped in the bud, will set the tone for other officers, retired and serving to question and override functions of the President's Direct appointees, constituting themselves into an authority above even the President

Richtaiwo:
Wike is a cabinet minister.

When the soldier told him he was acting on order, the most appropriate action is for Wike to find out whose order is the soldier acting on. After that, call the oga and tell him to provide the documents or vacate the land. As a minister, you don't go out flexing muscles with soldiers, that is the height of irresponsibility as a minister.

Whether he is a cabinet minister or toilet minister is irrelevant to the issue on ground

Unless you have facts to dispute that he was directly appointed by the President, then whatever you have to say is water under the bridge

Wike as FCT Minister is a representative of the President...Anything done to Wike acting in such office is done to the President...Simple

Justnation:
Once a General, always a General.
Every military officer retire with their ranks, it is only in operational or administrative situations that they cannot issue a direct command

So from retirement, someone will be still be issuing orders as if he is still in service? What was the point of retirement?

buygala:
Irrelevant to the issues raised

But ok

But to put things back in perspective, Tinubu is still this country's Commander-in-Chief and Wike is his directly appointed representative...So whatever was done to Wike yesterday by that retired CNS and his subordinate was done to Tinubu directly..

That's the purpose of this thread, not all this your distracted ramblings

You are still confirming what I am saying, whether it was done to Wike or Tinubu, it is the same thing because they have been using the very system against others unjustly...

Are you saying Tinubu is more important than any Nigerian?

Or the system can be against any person except Tinubu?

Is the system not supposed to work for everybody regardless of status?

do you people ever learn?

People don't know what it means to say once a general always a general. His is no longer in administrative or operational command. He can issue orders to soldiers assigned to him.
Wike could do this rubbish because generals of yesterday are no longer around. The generals I knew in the past he cannot try such rubbish. The general retires with his services pistol and can shot to kill as an act of defence. And nothing will happen to him.It is only the president that can issue orders directly to him and not via third party. If he disobeys he will be court Marshall. And if I junior goes to arrest his.He must take permission from him first. Then go ahead to remove his ranks which indirectly reduces him to a private in the army before he can arrest him.Why he must take direct other from the president is because nigeria president occupies two offices.He is the president and commander in chief of the armed forces. In some countries it is just a president office.In such case the president can not give direct orders. He must go through protocol for such orders to be effective..So a retired general issues orders directly to men assigned to him till death and they must obey.The general can only take orders directly from his superior not via third party in military structure .Those soldiers could only stand down if another general who is in service gives it because of the present operational or administrative position he holds which can counter that of the retired general. That is why in military they say ,at equally ranks office matters

Rephrase the question to:
Can a former governor (Wike) still issue valid commands to a current governor (Fubara)?

If your answer is Yes, then you have the answer you are looking for

buygala:
Wike is a direct appointee of the Commander-in-Chief, not an elected official like other Governors...What was done to Wike yesterday was for all intents and purposes, done to the Commander-in-Chief

Proceed from that premise and join the discussion...

It depends on how you want to see it.....

The president can as well, deny some of his actions and can even sack him if he likes.

But you should be asking yourself why the presidency has not reacted or make any official statement since this issue happened yesterday.

I will always advice, like I've done before, you don't need to be emotional over political issues in Nigeria, it has a way of derailing your sense of judgement.

Excellent questions

1. A retired military officer does not have the authority to issue orders to active-duty soldiers. Once an officer retires, they relinquish their command authority and are no longer part of the military chain of command.
2. Is the property a military installation or a place of national interest? If not, the soldier has no business being in that property or even preventing the ministry from inspecting the property let a lone the minister who is a rep of the C-in-C
3. The minister has the authority to access the property in his official capacity, especially if he is representing the President's interests. The question then arises as to what right a retired officer has to issue orders restricting the Minister's access to the property.

The soldier and whoever gave that command should be immediately arrested. This not a joking matter

MEGAWATCH:
It depends on how you want to see it.....

The president can as well, deny some of his actions and can even sack him if he likes.

But you should be asking yourself why the presidency has not reacted or make any official statement since this issue happened yesterday.

I will always advice, like I've done before, you don't need to be emotional over political issues in Nigeria, it has a way of derailing your sense of judgement.

Wike is still FCT Minister till now, meaning that his actions till date in that office were done on the President's behalf..

Don't over-complicate a simple issue by bringing in what-ifs that have not happened

Ciao

Brendaniel:
You are still confirming what I am saying, whether it was done to Wike or Tinubu, it is the same thing because they have been using the very system against others unjustly...

Are you saying Tinubu is more important than any Nigerian?

Or the system can be against any person except Tinubu?

Is the system not supposed to work for everybody regardless of status?

do you people ever learn?

Irrelevant

Bye

Richtaiwo:
I responded based on the caption, take it to a person who understands English to help you with appropriate heading. Because the heading is different from your argument.

If you have created a thread in nairaland before, you will know there is a limit to the number of characters in a thread's heading

You that understands English, use the same number of characters I used to re-couch the thread's topic to "Can an officer, serving or Retired issue valid orders to Countermand the President's direct representative?

Couch that in the limited characters or just rest

Besides, it says a lot about your intellect if you just respond to a thread based on the topic alone without taking time to read through what it's all about

buygala:
If you have created a thread in nairaland before, you will know there is a limit to the number of characters in a thread's heading

You that understands English, use the same number of characters I used to re-couch the thread's topic to "Can an officer, serving or Retired issue valid orders to Countermand the President's direct representative?

Couch that in the limited characters or just rest

Besides, it says a lot about your intellect if you just respond to a thread based on the topic alone without taking time to read through what it's all about

Can a Serving or Retired Officer Countermand the President’s Representative?
Are you telling me the nairaland headline box can't take this

buygala:
A whole lot has been said about Wike's Drama with that Navy Officer on a landed property in Abuja

Even a former Chief of Army Staff General Buratai (rtd) has weighed in ,calling Wike's action a threat to national security ...This is not the time and place for me to say what I think of General Buratai and his stint as Chief of Army Staff...But i can guarantee you that they are not palatable thoughts...

Now the questions that some of us want answers to are these:

1...Does a retired officer (in this case the retired Chief of Naval Staff) have a right to still issue valid orders to a soldier, much less to issue such orders to override a serving Minister of the Federal Republic?..Moreso that the Minister in this case is the Minister of the FCT, who unlike any State Governor, is a direct appointee of the Commander-in-Chief?

2..What is a soldier doing guarding a property that is not a designated property of the Nigerian Armed forces, or even a subject of national Interest, even to the extent of refusing the Chief FCT administrator (A representative of the C-in-C) into said property?

3....As Wike was appointed FCT Minister by the President who is the C-in-C and not elected like other Governors, doesn't that mean he is until proven otherwise, standing in the C-in-C's stead when he went to that property?...Then what right does a retired Officer (regardless of rank held) to issue orders restricting the representative of the C-in-C from entering said property that is neither a military installation or a place of designated security interest?

At this point, I think the Armed forces have overstepped their bounds, regardless of Wike's behavior which is a topic for another day...No serving officer, much less a retired one has any right to stand in the way of any representative of the Commander in Chief, as same is tantamount to a coup/Mutiny...

What happened yesterday in Abuja to Wike, is to call a spade a spade, a Mutiny directly against the President who appointed Wike to oversee the FCT administration...Simple and Short ...For all intents and purposes it's as if that youngling officer stood in the way of the President when he came to inspect that property..

And Yes... That officer needs to be immediately court-martialled for Mutiny and that his retired oga who sent him dealt with to the full extent of the law...These people need to be made an example of, especially in light of the recent coup allegations flying around...

A retired officer's orders overriding that of the President's representative is to say the least, outright madness, which if not nipped in the bud, will set the tone for other officers, retired and serving to question and override functions of the President's Direct appointees, constituting themselves into an authority above even the President

#1. The Ex-Naval Chief was wrong to bypass Wike's office in laying claim to any land in FCT. That's abuse of power that our Army are well known for.

#2. You can't fault the officer who said he was acting under order - at least he didn't insult Wike.
Wike at the point should have called his Army Chief to counter the order, rather than engaging in direct confrontation with the officer & using foul language on him.

GenderMix:
Excellent questions

1. A retired military officer does not have the authority to issue orders to active-duty soldiers. Once an officer retires, they relinquish their command authority and are no longer part of the military chain of command.
2. Is the property a military installation or a place of national interest? If not, the soldier has no business being in that property or even preventing the ministry from inspecting the property let a lone the minister who is a rep of the C-in-C
3. The minister has the authority to access the property in his official capacity, especially if he is representing the President's interests. The question then arises as to what right a retired officer has to issue orders restricting the Minister's access to the property.

The soldier and whoever gave that command should be immediately arrested. This not a joking matter

Your points are valid

Richtaiwo:
Can a Serving or Retired Officer Countermand the President’s Representative?
Are you telling me the nairaland headline box can't take this

Even I can countermand the President or whoever

Whether it's valid or not is the issue

Add the word "Validly" and test it yourself

buygala:
Even I can countermand the President or whoever

Whether it's valid or not is the issue

Add the word "Validly" and test it yourself

The word "valid" is implicit in that headline, Meaning, you don't have to say it.

Just like saying, can I place an order? It simply means, if I place order, will it be valid? So saying can I place a valid order? You don't have to add the valid, because it is implied already.

By

Brendaniel:
When we tell some of you that the system needs to work for everybody regardless of status, religion or tribe, some of you think we don't know what we are saying....

If you as a human being see no wrong with what Tinubu is doing to Nigerians, what Sanwo Olu and the Yorubas are doing to the Igbos in Lagos, what MNK is going through, what the south east is going through from the northerners and the Yorubas, the brutality of the police and military guys on Nigerians, the illegal EFCC raids on peoples homes in the night whether yahoo boys or not and you are coming to write this, then you are only deceiving yourself...


I've said this thing over and over, when you have a system that selects who to work for or against at different times based on whatever reason then that system can equally do the opposite for the same people.

Shebi Wike has always been oppressing people even killed youths in his state, the system was in his favour to do injustice to others, now the same system could not fight for him at that point and worked against him.

That's why I laugh at those who are laughing at those and mocking those who they rig election against and call them losers or those who laugh at those unjustly arrested for trying to do right thing, tomorrow do they know what that same system the are supporting may do to them?

my brother, righteousness exalts but sin is a reproach (disgraced country)

Richtaiwo:
The word "valid" is implicit in that headline, otherwise. Meaning, you don't have to say it.

Just like saying, can I place an order? It simply means, if I place order, will it be valid? So saying can I place a valid order? You don't have to add the valid, because it is implied already.

Smh


Bye

buygala:
Wike is still FCT Minister till now, meaning that his actions till date in that office were done on the President's behalf..

Don't over-complicate a simple issue by bringing in what-ifs that have not happened

Ciao

Hahahaha!

Okay let's see if the presidency will also condemn the actions of the military officer as well because you failed to understand that as the commander in chief he should have been calling them to order by now.

Nobody is complicating anything, all I'm trying to do is to get your emotions out of this discussion.

buygala:
Smh


Bye

And in fact, the expression, Can a Serving or Retired Officer Countermand the President’s Representative?

What it means is: If a Serving or Retired Officer Countermand the President’s Representative, will it be valid? Hence the use of "can", which means, does he have the power, authority, or will it be valid?

Clearly, English is your problem.

buygala:
Wike was acting on the President's instructions until proven otherwise, having been directly appointed by him ...

Your Soldiers impeded his function as the C-in-C's direct representative...That's a Mutiny or even treason...

Unless you have proof that Wike was not at that land as FCT Minister, please rest

If President wanted to give him or others a directive he will do that through military personnel of higher hierarchiagy, Wike is not a member of the arm forces.
The president representative can only come from a member of the military.

Dotherightthing:
That's crux of the question @bolded

When a situation arises, they are called back to serve immediately and they cannot say no even on wheelchair unless mental health decline. The store to defend their country till death.

The young officer said that they have documents of the land . Why don't Wike verify the document to be sure it's unthentic and followed due process before disgracing himself on national TV

buygala:
Irrelevant

Bye

You will know whether it is irrelevant or not, just a matter of time, like how we warned you people about Tinubu becoming president and people like you were saying what we were saying was irrelevant but today we all now know how relevant our warnings were...

buygala:
That's not the issue at hand

In any case if nothing changes for them even after retirement like you said, why are some of them not in Damboa and Baga commanding soldiers facing ISWAP and ISIS?

Please let's not start a discussion we cannot finish

The government of the day has not invited them. They are called veterans, when you invite them to come and help, they will.

Ttalk:
That's a very good question. I have taken my time to analyze the unfortunate incident of confrontation between the Minister of FCT and an attached naval staff to a retired CNS.

Many commentators have not only erred in their submission but have allowed emotion to dictate their judgement.

There are pertinent questions that could informed a better understanding and fair judgement on the matter.

If we are to agree that a military officer only obey the order of his superior, won't it be more appropriate to define under what condition such order becomes valid.

If it is assumed that a military can break traffic rules while on mission to arrest a bandit, will such order be applicable while such officer is taking his superior child to school,?

The scenario at which the altercation occured. is best not in military formal duty and such order must be weighed to comform with the existing rules outside the military formation.

It would have been more ingenious for the officer at the point of such stalemate to have seek direct intervention of his superior to engage the minister.

Taking a unilateral decision based on order from his boss is not enough ground to remain adamant. Rather than asked Wike to call the CNS, I believe the junior office should have done that instead.

You are so brilliant