₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
When you are ready to learn i'm here to TEACH you i've quoted (not just citing) two verses that clearly states God doesn't know everything according to His own words so all you need to do is ask questions not just angrily throwing insults up and down.
That won't help your ministry.

Meanwhile i've proved to you that man has freewill that's the reason God said He will punish offenders which can't make any sense if those in question do not have freewill to choose between right and wrong!🙂

Yet this is someone who believes that there's the elect. On what basis of what they have done are they the elect?
Point is, God ALREADY knows if you’ll choose right or wrong and it is part of hid plan. That's the only way things will unfold exactly according to his Plan and can't deviate from it. Or don't you believe that things must unfold according to God's plan?
You are sounding more and more like an atheist!

Ọmọ ASK QUESTIONS if you want to know!

God doesn't choose anyone who doesn't meet up with the criteria.

QuinQ:
Yet this is someone who believes that there's the elect. On what basis of what they have done are they the elect?
Point is, God ALREADY knows if you’ll choose right or wrong and it is part of hid plan. That's the only way things will unfold exactly according to his Plan and can't deviate from it. Or don't you believe that things must unfold according to God's plan?
You are sounding more and more like an atheist!

MaxInDHouse:
Ọmọ ASK QUESTIONS if you want to know!

God doesn't choose anyone who doesn't meet up with the criteria.

You keep saying ask questions when you can barely think!
What did the elect DO??
Bottom line, you've LOST the argument just like
Dtruthspeaker. You can't show anywhere in the Bible where God explicitly said he didn't know what would happen. Meanwhile you've been shown several places it says explicitly that God knows everything and even knows your thoughts before you think them.
Explain how things will go exactly according to God's plan if man had freewill. You can't!!
We are designed to think we have freewill but as often happens, the smartest amongst us were able to figure out we don't (at least from human perspective) and you haven't been able to show we do.
Like the other guy, you LOST!
Cheerios!

QuinQ:
What did the elect DO?

I guess when you say the elect you mean the chosen.
God never chose anyone until Christ has offered the ultimate sacrifice so the choosing starts from the moment God's holy spirit was poured on 120 disciples of Christ in the upper chamber on the day of Pentecost.
First of all an elect must be baptized in the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirit {Matthew 28:19} this means such a person knows how to explain the purpose of God, Christ and how the holy spirit works.
Secondly an elect must be baptized with God's holy spirit which signifies that such a person is marked as one of the corulers with Christ in heaven.
Only disciples of Christ can become one of the elect because the door to become spirit sons of God was opened after the ultimate sacrifice was done.
But what is the criteria for choosing the elect?
Someone may become a follower of Jesus after knowing that he is the Christ however to become one of the elect he must have an innocent hands and a pure heart must not swear a false oath neither takes an oath deceitfully {Psalms 24:4} these are the ones elected among Christ's disciples.
God began making provision after the rebellion in the garden of Eden that is why the scriptures say they have been chosen from the founding of the world because originally there was no preparation for any human to rule but after the rebellion in Eden God promised to select those who will rule with the Christ.
So the criteria is written in the Bible book of Psalms 24:3-5

MaxInDHouse:
I guess when you say the elect you mean the chosen.
God never chose anyone until Christ has offered the ultimate sacrifice so the choosing starts from the moment God's holy spirit was poured on 120 disciples of Christ in the upper chamber on the day of Pentecost.
First of all an elect must be baptized in the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirit {Matthew 28:19} this means such a person knows how to explain the purpose of God, Christ and how the holy spirit works.
Secondly an elect must be baptized with God's holy spirit which signifies that such a person is marked as one of the corulers with Christ in heaven.
Only disciples of Christ can become one of the elect because the door to become spirit sons of God was opened after the ultimate sacrifice was done.
But what is the criteria for choosing the elect?
Someone may become a follower of Jesus after knowing that he is the Christ however to become one of the elect he must have an innocent hands and a pure heart must not swear a false oath neither takes an oath deceitfully {Psalms 24:4} these are the ones elected among Christ's disciples.
God began making provision after the rebellion in the garden of Eden that is why the scriptures say they have been chosen from the founding of the world because originally there was no preparation for any human to rule but after the rebellion in Eden God promised to select those who will rule with the Christ.
So the criteria is written in the Bible book of Psalms 24:3-5

What a rambling non-answer.😅
You were asked what the elect did to deserve NOT what was done to them. Then you quote they were chosen from the foundation of the earth then said they were not. Which is it?
While at it, tell us what Jacob DID to be loved from birth, and what Esau DID to be hated from birth.
Then tell us how God knew people BEFORE they DID anything, BEFORE he formed them in their mother's wombs! (Jeremiah 1:5, Psalm 139:13-16)

From the foundation of the world not foundation of the earth.
The world means wicked people that will no longer exist when God's Kingdom comes {1John 2:15-17} so it's when these evil people began existing that God decided to choose rulers for His kingdom among loyal and honest hearted humans.
Criteria {Psalms 24:4} and they must have learned from the Christ!

QuinQ:
What a rambling non-answer.😅
You were asked what the elect did to deserve NOT what was done to them. Then you quote they were chosen from the foundation of the earth then said they were not. Which is it?
While at it, tell us what Jacob DID to be loved from birth, and what Esau DID to be hated from birth.
Then tell us how God knew people BEFORE they DID anything, BEFORE he formed them in their mother's wombs! (Jeremiah 1:5, Psalm 139:13-16)

MaxInDHouse:
From the foundation of the world not foundation of the earth.
The world means wicked people that will no longer exist when God's Kingdom comes {1John 2:15-17} so it's when these evil people began existing that God decided to choose rulers for His kingdom among loyal and honest hearted humans.
Criteria {Psalms 24:4} and they must have learned from the Christ!

Please explain us when earth became world. Was it when wicked Adam ate the fruit or Caine of Abel? And you still haven't told us what Elect DID at "foundation of world" when they didn't even exist OR Esau and Jacob OR Jeremiah and David

QuinQ:
Please explain us when earth became world. Was it when wicked Adam ate the fruit or Caine of Abel? And you still haven't told us what Elect DID at "foundation of world" when they didn't even exist OR Esau and Jacob OR Jeremiah and David

Founding means the beginning and the world means evildoers and their desires.

I told you but anger is depriving you of getting the sense of what i'm saying.

Nobody born of women is part of the elect until the day of John the baptist {Matthew 11:11} so if you want to talk of the elect think of those who were chosen in the day of Pentecost inside the upper chamber! Act 1:1

Many later became part of that fold but they were chosen based on what Psalms 24:4 says.

The decision to choose them is what the Bible calls from the founding of the world which happened when Adam and Eve turned their backs on their Creator and took side with Satan.

MaxInDHouse:
Founding means the beginning and the world means evildoers and their desires.

I told you but anger is depriving you of getting the sense of what i'm saying.

Nobody born of women is part of the elect until the day of John the baptist {Matthew 11:11} so if you want to talk of the elect think of those who were chosen in the day of Pentecost inside the upper chamber! Act 1:1

Many later became part of that fold but they were chosen based on what Psalms 24:4 says.

The decision to choose them is what the Bible calls from the founding of the world which happened when Adam and Eve turned their backs on their Creator and took side with Satan.

Do you realize how convoluted you sound?😅
This actually is soo funny!😂
Read it yourself like you're reading it for the first time and tell me you don't burst out laughing!🤣

QuinQ:
Do you realize how convoluted you sound?😅
This actually is soo funny!😂
Read it yourself like you're reading it for the first time and tell me you don't burst out laughing!🤣

I'm sorry the words of faith is spiritual it can't make any sense to carnal men! Act 26:24🙂

So you can't be blamed!🙂

But a physical man does not accept the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know them, because they are examined spiritually. 1Corinthans 2:14

Meanwhile i won't deviate from the topic of discussion:
God gave humans FREEWILL that's why He will punish offenders!🙂

MaxInDHouse:
I'm sorry the words of faith is spiritual it can't make any sense to carnal men! Act 26:24🙂

So you can't be blamed!🙂

But a physical man does not accept the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know them, because they are examined spiritually. 1Corinthans 2:14

Meanwhile i won't deviate from the topic of discussion:
God gave humans FREEWILL that's why He will punish offenders!🙂

Ok, explain to us how this freewill works.
1) Man has choice, right? But this choice is based on something, right? Question: does man control what that choice is based on?
2) Does man in any way control inner workings of his brain which is where thought and therefore choice originates?
3) Did man give himself the type of brain he has that helps determine his choice?
4) Did man choose his circumstances and experiences that help determine his choice?
5) Did man give himself the type of personality he has that help determine his choice
6) Finally the religious one: How can things be foretold to happen thousands of years ahead of time as if they already happened - and they happen exactly as foretold! Can u please tell us how this and freewill can both be true.

Like I've said severally, all this is from human perspective - and of course man doesn’t know everything!

As for funny, please tell me how it is not funny that the world didn't started at creation but only after evil Adam ate apple and that the elect were chosen then but not chosen till John the Baptist!

The only people exempted from the punishment that comes along with freewill are dead or those whose brains aren't working normally.
As for Adam he was made perfect so his brains works perfectly therefore himself and all those who do think straight have freewill!🙂

QuinQ:
Ok, explain to us how this freewill works.
1) Man has choice, right? But this choice is based on something, right? Question: does man control what that choice is based on?
2) Does man in any way control inner workings of his brain which is where thought and therefore choice originates?
3) Did man give himself the type of brain he has that helps determine his choice?
4) Did man choose his circumstances and experiences that help determine his choice?
5) Did man give himself the type of personality he has that help determine his choice
6) Finally the religious one: How can things be foretold to happen thousands of years ahead of time as if they already happened - and they happen exactly as foretold! Can u please tell us how this and freewill can both be true.

Like I've said severally, all this is from human perspective - and of course man doesn’t know everything!

As for funny, please tell me how it is not funny that the world didn't started at creation but only after evil Adam ate apple and that the elect were chosen then but not chosen till John the Baptist!

MaxInDHouse:
The only people exempted from the punishment that comes along with freewill are dead or those whose brains aren't working normally.
As for Adam he was made perfect so his brains works perfectly therefore himself and all those who do think straight have freewill!🙂

Yet his perfect brain chose to eat apple!
Funny thing is, he was provided with a tester who first tasted it and did not die! If you were told if anyone goes into a certain room they'd die inside there and someone went in and came out smiling, would you go in?

QuinQ:
Yet his perfect brain chose to eat apple!
Funny thing is, he was provided with a tester who first tasted it and did not die! If you were told if anyone goes into a certain room they'd die inside there and someone went in and came out smiling, would you go in?

Adam was not deceived {1Timothy 2:14} he knew he will die because the One whose energy sustains him said so!
To your question i won't put my God to the test {Matthew 4:7; Deuteronomy 6:16} since He has spoken i'm 100% certain that He cannot lie! Titus 1:2

MaxInDHouse:
Adam was not deceived {1Timothy 2:14} he knew he will die because the One whose energy sustains him said so!
To your question i won't put my God to the test {Matthew 4:7; Deuteronomy 6:16} since He has spoken i'm 100% certain that He cannot lie! Titus 1:2

You quoted ten Bible verses and still didn't answer the questions: What was Adam's freewill.based on? And would you enter the room described?

QuinQ:
You quoted ten Bible verses and still didn't answer the questions: What was Adam's freewill.based on? And would you enter the room described?

Freewill can't be based on anything since the individual is FREE to choose there is consequences which the person may damn or consider.
As for your question who told you not to enter in the first place?🙂

MaxInDHouse:
Freewill can't be based on anything since the individual is FREE to choose there is consequences which the person may damn or consider.
As for your question who told you not to enter in the first place?🙂

You can let it be anybody that told you. The important thing is that your partner (taster😆) entered and did not die, but instead come out smiling.

You misunderstand the freewill questions.
Here are the questions again below. Honestly answer them to the best of your ability, not just being argumentative to be argumentative.

1) Man has choice, right? But this choice is based on something, right? Question: does man control what that choice is based on?
2) Does man in any way control inner workings of his brain which is where thought and therefore choice originates?
3) Did man give himself the type of brain he has that helps determine his choice?
4) Did man choose his circumstances and experiences that help determine his choice?
5) Did man give himself the type of personality he has that help determine his choice
6) Finally the religious one: How can things be foretold to happen thousands of years ahead of time as if they already happened - and they happen exactly as foretold! Can u please tell us how this and freewill can both be true.

QuinQ:
You can let it be anybody that told you. The important thing is that your partner (taster😆) entered and did not die, but instead come out smiling.

Sorry in this case it was Adam God spoke to directly and he passed the info to Eve so he knew they are in big trouble!

QuinQ:
You misunderstand the freewill questions.
Here are the questions again below. Honestly answer them to the best of your ability, not just being argumentative to be argumentative.

You are the argumentative one here.
God punished Adam and Eve which can't be justified if there is no freewill.

QuinQ:
1) Man has choice, right? But this choice is based on something, right? Question: does man control what that choice is based on?
2) Does man in any way control inner workings of his brain which is where thought and therefore choice originates?
3) Did man give himself the type of brain he has that helps determine his choice?
4) Did man choose his circumstances and experiences that help determine his choice?
5) Did man give himself the type of personality he has that help determine his choice
6) Finally the religious one: How can things be foretold to happen thousands of years ahead of time as if they already happened - and they happen exactly as foretold! Can u please tell us how this and freewill can both be true.

All these gymnastics doesn't change the fact that once you've been warned there is a no reason to do what you have been told not to do!🙂

MaxInDHouse:
Sorry in this case it was Adam God spoke to directly and he passed the info to Eve so he knew they are in big trouble!


You are the argumentative one here.
God punished Adam and Eve which can't be justified if there is no freewill.


All these gymnastics doesn't change the fact that once you've been warned there is a no reason to do what you have been told not to do!🙂

(All this is from human perspective. There are things only God knows we don't - (this is the type of concession someone NOT being argumentative makes!)

It was also God that gave Adam his type of brain and ALL the supporting experiences and circumstances that led to that choice. What else can be the basis of Adam's choice besides these? That was what was meant when you were asked the basis of Adam's freewill.

But God never said they were punished because of freewill, man said that not God. What God did say was:
"I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy
(Exodus 33:19) . Hence God's nature is not based on freewill.
There are many instances of this: people being punished or rewarded and they did nothing. Examples: Esau and Jacob and all the people whose roles were set from beginning, like Judas

MarcinScholke:
In Christianity, free will and human reason are considered essential parts of human dignity. Today, some people raise concerns about whether modern technologies—such as the concepts described in patent US4877027A—could theoretically influence or interfere with human autonomy.
I’m curious from both a Christian and ethical perspective: How should we think about technology that claims to affect the mind or behavior? Do such ideas challenge the understanding of free will, or are they simply speculative concepts?

See MORE https://lov111vol.com/hearing-voices

Yhwh does not condone freewill. It's a myth promoted by Christians when Yhwh clearly trample on freewill of several people in the bible like the Pharaoh, Job,Nehemiah etc. Freewill is an excuse Christians give to put their god out of scrutiny but they pray every day for their god to change the heart of their bosses,spouses,governors,presidents etc thereby disrupting the freewill of those folks listed. It's really funny 😁
Also how is there freewill if an all knowing god already knows what we're gonna do? Does it make sense
And finally, let's just assume for the purpose of this discussion that yhwh allows freewill. Then why punish humans for exercising this freewill? It's just like a dad telling his toddler"u can eat ice cream or rice but if you eat rice,imma punish u" of course the child ice cream since rice carries a punished.

QuinQ:
It was also God that gave Adam his type of brain and ALL the supporting experiences and circumstances that led to that choice.

This is a lie!
The only difference between Adam and others is a perfect human body apart from that we all have freewill to choose whether the right or wrong thing.

MaxInDHouse:
This is a lie!
The only difference between Adam and others is a perfect human body apart from that we all have freewill to choose whether the right or wrong thing.

Ok, who gave Adam his type of brain and all the supporting circumstances and experiences that led to the choice. Which of those did Adam give himself?

QuinQ:
Ok, who gave Adam his type of brain and all the supporting circumstances and experiences that led to the choice. Which of those did Adam give himself?

All normal human have the same type of brain there is no difference once you are warned not to do something whatever makes you go against it is your fault not the fault of anyone else!

MaxInDHouse:
All normal human have the same type of brain there is no difference once you are warned not to do something whatever makes you go against it is your fault not the fault of anyone else!

This is like saying all humans (or all babies) have the same personality!
But my good friend, be honest with yourself for once. Do you really think God will leave unfolflding of his plan to the whims of human freewill? Don't you feel somehow that your life was meant to go a a certain way?? That all these things were pre-ordained?

QuinQ:
Do you really think God will leave unfolflding of his plan to the whims of human freewill? Don't you feel somehow that your life was meant to go a a certain way?? That all these things were pre-ordained?

NO!
Rebellion against God's arrangement led us where we are today this is not what want for us that's why He promised to destroy those who are not doing His will! 1John 2:15-17 compare to Matthew 7:21-23

MaxInDHouse:
NO!
Rebellion against God's arrangement led us where we are today this is not what want for us that's why He promised to destroy those who are not doing His will! 1John 2:15-17 compare to Matthew 7:21-23

God is all-knowing, and not bound by time as we are. He knows our decisions before we make them. He knows the future and the past and can see your end before you were even born.
The Bible presents God's will as a sovereign plan that unfolds according to His timing, not ours. Our job is to actively participate by aligning our lives with His will instead moving mountains to try to thwart it!

That's what people think about God after reading the Bible but a thorough study shows it's not so.
According to the Bible God had a sound prospect for humans and of course He knew what mankind is capable of doing with the way He created us because we are capable of creating things ourselves but there is limitation to what we can do as we can't create a single thing out of nothing so whatever we can do must be from the available resources found on planet earth. Surely God knows mankind will get to the stage of electricity, telecommunication, automobile and others but when it comes to how each person thinks that is left to what each person chooses that's where freewill comes in.
Our problem began when Adam and Eve were introduced to politics which means they want to be Gods over others setting standards and dictating what type of life others should be restricted to that is what politics brought and that is why we are gradually moving towards self extinction because man can't rule man without prejudice it will always end up with oppressing others! Ecclesiastes 4:1; 8:9
So when God told Adam and Eve not to eat from the forbidden fruit which you keep referring to as apple it's an parable which means humans are free to do whatever they want but one thing they must not do which is setting standards for their fellow man {Genesis 2:17} once that happens majority will start thinking of how to join the ruling class and that will lead to a big trouble as the resources God gave us will be channeled to production of destructive devices which they will be using to intimidate and oppress others.
Look around you today and ask yourself how much human rulers are spending on accumulating weapons in contrast to what they are setting aside for agriculture to feed their people.
Then you will understand what i'm saying.
In a nutshell God gave us freewill but we have misused it to our own detriment!

QuinQ:
God is all-knowing, and not bound by time as we are. He knows our decisions before we make them. He knows the future and the past and can see your end before you were even born.
The Bible presents God's will as a sovereign plan that unfolds according to His timing, not ours. Our job is to actively participate by aligning our lives with His will instead moving mountains to try to thwart it!

MaxInDHouse:
That's what people think about God after reading the Bible but a thorough study shows it's not so.
According to the Bible God had a sound prospect for humans and of course He knew what mankind is capable of doing with the way He created us because we are capable of creating things ourselves but there is limitation to what we can do as we can't create a single thing out of nothing so whatever we can do must be from the available resources found on planet earth. Surely God knows mankind will get to the stage of electricity, telecommunication, automobile and others but when it comes to how each person thinks that is left to what each person chooses that's where freewill comes in.
Our problem began when Adam and Eve were introduced to politics which means they want to be Gods over others setting standards and dictating what type of life others should be restricted to that is what politics brought and that is why we are gradually moving towards self extinction because man can't rule man without prejudice it will always end up with oppressing others! Ecclesiastes 4:1; 8:9
So when God told Adam and Eve not to eat from the forbidden fruit which you keep referring to as apple it's an parable which means humans are free to do whatever they want but one thing they must not do which is setting standards for their fellow man {Genesis 2:17} once that happens majority will start thinking of how to join the ruling class and that will lead to a big trouble as the resources God gave us will be channeled to production of destructive devices which they will be using to intimidate and oppress others.
Look around you today and ask yourself how much human rulers are spending on accumulating weapons in contrast to what they are setting aside for agriculture to feed their people.
Then you will understand what i'm saying.
In a nutshell God gave us freewill but we have misused it to our own detriment!

I'm sure anybody reading this will be wondering if you are okay. There were no "others" for Adam and Eve to want to be gods over. THEY WERE BY THEMSELVES!

Secondly, you can't have partial freewill that only aoplies to individuals but not to big things BECAUSE THINGS ARE INTERCONNECTED. The smallest act of one individual can change the course of history. Let's say on the night Hitler was conceived his dad had used his freewill to go play poker instead of going home to sleep with his wife. A totally different person would have been conceived and therefore no WW2!

Thirdly, you must be talking of another and not God of OT when it comes to war. Do you think ALMIGHTY God of OT couldn't have accomplished all He accomplished without wars? There is no place it says He hated wars, that's man's insertion, and infact the term "Man of war" was severally applied to Him.

QuinQ:
There were no "others" for Adam and Eve to want to be gods over. THEY WERE BY THEMSELVES!

If you don't want this it's OK i didn't force you to quote me so try not to be abusive simply because i responded to you.🙂
Did they believe the earth will be filled with humans? Genesis 1:28
Well that's what Eve thought will make them Gods over the coming generation of humans after all they will become many through reproduction and make the earth there domain where all dwellers will worship them.
That's what Satan meant when he said:

"God knows that in the very day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and bad.” Genesis 3:5

Knowing good and bad means setting up standards for others who will be born after them.

MaxInDHouse:
If you don't want this it's OK i didn't force you to quote me so try not to be abusive simply because i responded to you.🙂
Did they believe the earth will be filled with humans? Genesis 1:28
Well that's what Eve thought will make them Gods over the coming generation of humans after all they will become many through reproduction and make the earth there domain where all dwellers will worship them.
That's what Satan meant when he said:

"God knows that in the very day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and bad.” Genesis 3:5

Knowing good and bad means setting up standards for others who will be born after them.

Wow!
That's all I have to say