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I am more inclined to the Jehovah witness model of Jesus because it is more in-line with the Bible - not 100%.

According to the Trinity - Jesus/Son == Jehovah/Father == Holy spirit, 100% God, coequal and coeternal.

1. If Jesus was God, how is it that 4000 years of history before he was born, all the prophets sent by God (Abraham, Elijah, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Noah, Moses, Daniel, Samuel, Jonah etc) never ever preached about something close to trinity. Does this mean that today we know God more than his most revered prophets?

2. Before the birth of Jesus, nobody among the ancient prophets or their followers ever even had any idea about the trinity, and surprisingly they had the complete Old testament - which we use to prove the trinity today!
Isn't it intriguing that (I know about trinity but Moses doesn't)?
Moses literally spoke to God face-to-face!

3. All the verses that are used to claim that Jesus is a part of the Godhead can be debunked easily logically, why?
Is God so ambiguous in delivering speech?

4. 1 John 5:7 which is the ultimate verse that clearly portrays trinity as it is today has been removed from like 3 versions of the bible, verse 8 is now divided to fill the void. Doesn't this ring a bell?

5. If truly to be saved I have to believe in Jesus as my Lord and Saviour, how sure am I that the ancient prophets are saved since they never believed in such. All verses in the old testament are clear "God is One". Jesus clearly says "There is one that is good, The father in Heaven".
Is Jesus really as God as the father? Or is he subordinate.

6. The bible says that "God is unchangeable, God is not a man, God is not the son of man". These are the exact descriptions used for Jesus throughout the gospels by his followers.

7. God is omniscient and omnipotent. There is this verse where Jesus says "No one knows the hour, not even the son, but the father". Jesus is not omniscient.

8. If Jesus is god then he has a greater God he seeks when in distress. Before the cross incident Jesus asked God for the cup to pass away from him, then while on the cross jesus said "Eli, Eli, lama sabachtani" - "My God, My God, why has thou forsaken me!".
God - Jesus are two different entities that have different purposes.

9. The case of the Holy spirit is totally different as 8t is the weakest link in the trinity and hardest to prove to be coequal and coeternal with the father. Nothing in the Bible supports the claim.

10. I have read history and it clearly supports the claim that the doctrine of trinity was born and raised to perfection in the councils of Nicea and Constantinople and others in the 4th century (3 centuries after jesus was raised).
In the 1st to 3rd centuries more the absolute majority of Christians were either Arians, modalists, Unitarians or Adoptionists far from todays Trinitarian dogma. When the trinitarians made a move they made trinity mainstream. But initially it wasn't.
Popular church fathers quoted till date that are not trinitarians;
1. Ireanaeus of lyons
2. Theophilus of Antioch
3. Tertullian
4. Origen
5. Clement of Rome
6. Arius etc.

If trinity is essential for salvation, why did the early-church produce untrinitatian fathers and why does the church praise these father that were not trinitarians?.

Infact, there is no Pre-nicean (4th century after jesus) church father who preached trinity.

11. If the Trinity is essential to knowing God correctly, then God withheld essential knowledge from Abraham, Moses, David, and Isaiah-men He called friends and spoke to directly.

12. I have never had two 100% identical answers on "Explain the trinity" from any two trinitarians - WHY?

Please and please, things like "It is complex because God is complex, God is a mystery, No one can completely know God" are not answers but traps to further confirm that the trinity isn't firmly rooted in scripture.

Please all answers should be scripture based or scholarly writing not later than the 2nd century, not mere logic.

muslim100:
I am more inclined to the Jehovah witness model of Jesus because it is more in-line with the Bible - not 100%.

According to the Trinity - Jesus/Son == Jehovah/Father == Holy spirit, 100% God, coequal and coeternal.

1. If Jesus was God, how is it that 4000 years of history before he was born, all the prophets sent by God (Abraham, Elijah, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Noah, Moses, Daniel, Samuel, Jonah etc) never ever preached about something close to trinity. Does this mean that today we know God more than his most revered prophets?

2. Before the birth of Jesus, nobody among the ancient prophets or their followers ever even had any idea about the trinity, and surprisingly they had the complete Old testament - which we use to prove the trinity today!
Isn't it intriguing that (I know about trinity but Moses doesn't)?
Moses literally spoke to God face-to-face!

3. All the verses that are used to claim that Jesus is a part of the Godhead can be debunked easily logically, why?
Is God so ambiguous in delivering speech?

4. 1 John 5:7 which is the ultimate verse that clearly portrays trinity as it is today has been removed from like 3 versions of the bible, verse 8 is now divided to fill the void. Doesn't this ring a bell?

5. If truly to be saved I have to believe in Jesus as my Lord and Saviour, how sure am I that the ancient prophets are saved since they never believed in such. All verses in the old testament are clear "God is One". Jesus clearly says "There is one that is good, The father in Heaven".
Is Jesus really as God as the father? Or is he subordinate.

6. The bible says that "God is unchangeable, God is not a man, God is not the son of man". These are the exact descriptions used for Jesus throughout the gospels by his followers.

7. God is omniscient and omnipotent. There is this verse where Jesus says "No one knows the hour, not even the son, but the father". Jesus is not omniscient.

8. If Jesus is god then he has a greater God he seeks when in distress. Before the cross incident Jesus asked God for the cup to pass away from him, then while on the cross jesus said "Eli, Eli, lama sabachtani" - "My God, My God, why has thou forsaken me!".
God - Jesus are two different entities that have different purposes.

9. The case of the Holy spirit is totally different as 8t is the weakest link in the trinity and hardest to prove to be coequal and coeternal with the father. Nothing in the Bible supports the claim.

10. I have read history and it clearly supports the claim that the doctrine of trinity was born and raised to perfection in the councils of Nicea and Constantinople and others in the 4th century (3 centuries after jesus was raised).
In the 1st to 3rd centuries more the absolute majority of Christians were either Arians, modalists, Unitarians or Adoptionists far from todays Trinitarian dogma. When the trinitarians made a move they made trinity mainstream. But initially it wasn't.
Popular church fathers quoted till date that are not trinitarians;
1. Ireanaeus of lyons
2. Theophilus of Antioch
3. Tertullian
4. Origen
5. Clement of Rome
6. Arius etc.

If trinity is essential for salvation, why did the early-church produce untrinitatian fathers and why does the church praise these father that were not trinitarians?.

Infact, there is no Pre-nicean (4th century after jesus) church father who preached trinity.

11. If the Trinity is essential to knowing God correctly, then God withheld essential knowledge from Abraham, Moses, David, and Isaiah-men He called friends and spoke to directly.

12. I have never had two 100% identical answers on "Explain the trinity" from any two trinitarians - WHY?

Please and please, things like "It is complex because God is complex, God is a mystery, No one can completely know God" are not answers but traps to further confirm that the trinity isn't firmly rooted in scripture.

Please all answers should be scripture based or scholarly writing not later than the 2nd century, not mere logic.

You can answer these questions with common sense and human wisdom... It is Divine

#1Cor. 1:27

muslim100:
I am more inclined to the Jehovah witness model of Jesus because it is more in-line with the Bible - not 100%.

Do you believe in the Bible or you want to use your Quran to explain what the Bible says?

Well there is nothing wrong with what the JWs teaches about the Bible!🙂

Because there is no supreme council like in Islam.

In islam there is a council constantly brainstorming on ways to create self-serving doctrines and rulings, Christianity is liberal on the other hand. No provision for strife-inspired doctrines. Every doctrine is fairly open to challenge and clarification. The fear of God is at the centre. The love of God is at the circumference of Christianity. Strife is discouraged. Coveteousness(material) too.

All the prophets that came before christ were not Christians but Jewish prophets, they communicated with God through an angel none ever communicated with God directly except moses. You said holy spirit is the weakest link in trinity? Don't let ur mouth or thoughts put you in trouble you can't come out from, you can blaspheme against God and be forgiven, even Jesus you can blaspheme against him and also be forgiven but you can't blaspheme against the holy spirit and be forgiven.do you know who the holy spirit is? The holy spirit is the spirit that Carries the presence of God. The holy spirit was the spirit that raised christ from the dead. The trinity can be best described as your body, spirit and soul. Inside ur body there's a spirit and also a soul. The holy spirit is the only spirit that knows the deep things in God's mind/thought. The holy spirit is one but he's everywhere if all the pastors and prophets in this world decide to hold a crusade at the same time in different countries the holy spirit will move and work miracles in all the crusades ground. When u hear God pass man that's just one of it. That sensation you feel when you pray is the holy spirit. And please bro I want to beg you if there's anything you don't understand about the holy spirit you can ask him to tell you and trust me he will reveal some secrets that will put you off balance, that holy spirit can open your eyes for you to see the evil that will happen to you in few minutes if you don't pray to avert it, he can also open you ears to allow you hear what a friend in a faraway city is currently gossiping about you, the holy spirit can also review to you what happened before your parents conceive you and what will happen in the next ten years to you, when you hear God pass man with everything no be beans. The holy spirit is a comforter sent by God to men after christ had ascended to comfort those with heavy and troubled heart if they seek him. Jesus is God just as you share same DNA with ur father.

We will all meet God Someday, have a question ready for him.


Mine is,


Dearest God, is Jesus Christ your Biological son ?!

If you wanna know better??
Summit ya self to holy spirit
Moses only see shadow of God!
When saul/Paul seen Jesus Christ in his real form, he was blinded
Moses his eyes 👀 start shining like sun




Seeing God's Face and Being Meek - Light of Truth
No, Moses did not see God's face; the Bible states that no human can see God's face and live, but they did speak "face to face" in an intimate, friend-like manner, with God allowing Moses to see His back as His glory passed by. God explicitly told Moses in Exodus 33:20 that he couldn't see His face, but would be placed in a rock's crevice with His hand covering him, allowing him to glimpse His passing presence (His "back".

Because Trinity is a false doctrine not from God, who isn't an author of such confusion.

Anyway why is Ireanaeus in that list of those who were not Trinitarians, because I have seen quotes where he claimed Jesus is God. @muslim100

dawnomike:
You can answer these questions with common sense and human wisdom... It is Divine

#1Cor. 1:27

Please help me answer them. That is the reason I asked them, I want answers.

gohf:
Because Trinity is a false doctrine not from God, who isn't an author of such confusion.

Anyway why is Ireanaeus in that list of those who were not Trinitarians, because I have seen quotes where he claimed Jesus is God. @muslim100

Yh, Irenaeus is claimed by trinitarians but he was at best a subordinationist but he wasn't a trinitarian (nicene trinity)

In his book Against heresies Book 2, chapter 18 verse 8, the whole chapter is a good read.
"...For the Father, says He, is greater than I. John 14:28 The Father, therefore, has been declared by our Lord to excel with respect to knowledge; for this reason, that we, too, as long as we are connected with the scheme of things in this world, should leave perfect knowledge, and such questions [as have been mentioned], to God..."
he described jesus as lesser to God in knowledge. He calls the Father God and Jesus Christ Lord.

He believes Jesus to be divine but subordinate to the Father. He desisted from questioning "How" he was begotten.

muyico:
If you wanna know better??
Summit ya self to holy spirit
Moses only see shadow of God!
When saul/Paul seen Jesus Christ in his real form, he was blinded
Moses his eyes 👀 start shining like sun




Seeing God's Face and Being Meek - Light of Truth
No, Moses did not see God's face; the Bible states that no human can see God's face and live, but they did speak "face to face" in an intimate, friend-like manner, with God allowing Moses to see His back as His glory passed by. God explicitly told Moses in Exodus 33:20 that he couldn't see His face, but would be placed in a rock's crevice with His hand covering him, allowing him to glimpse His passing presence (His "back".

Please help answer the questions.
You have the Holy spirit, it will be easy for you to provide answers.
Thanks 🙏.

NoahHadNoArk:
We will all meet God Someday, have a question ready for him.


Mine is,


Dearest God, is Jesus Christ your Biological son ?!

Biological?
A biological son clearly means is not eternal and wasn't there in the beginning, while also having only some of his fathers attributes.

Begotten also has same meaning.

fuckingAyaya:
All the prophets that came before christ were not Christians but Jewish prophets, they communicated with God through an angel none ever communicated with God directly except moses. You said holy spirit is the weakest link in trinity? Don't let ur mouth or thoughts put you in trouble you can't come out from, you can blaspheme against God and be forgiven, even Jesus you can blaspheme against him and also be forgiven but you can't blaspheme against the holy spirit and be forgiven.do you know who the holy spirit is? The holy spirit is the spirit that Carries the presence of God. The holy spirit was the spirit that raised christ from the dead. The trinity can be best described as your body, spirit and soul. Inside ur body there's a spirit and also a soul. The holy spirit is the only spirit that knows the deep things in God's mind/thought. The holy spirit is one but he's everywhere if all the pastors and prophets in this world decide to hold a crusade at the same time in different countries the holy spirit will move and work miracles in all the crusades ground. When u hear God pass man that's just one of it. That sensation you feel when you pray is the holy spirit. And please bro I want to beg you if there's anything you don't understand about the holy spirit you can ask him to tell you and trust me he will reveal some secrets that will put you off balance, that holy spirit can open your eyes for you to see the evil that will happen to you in few minutes if you don't pray to avert it, he can also open you ears to allow you hear what a friend in a faraway city is currently gossiping about you, the holy spirit can also review to you what happened before your parents conceive you and what will happen in the next ten years to you, when you hear God pass man with everything no be beans. The holy spirit is a comforter sent by God to men after christ had ascended to comfort those with heavy and troubled heart if they seek him. Jesus is God just as you share same DNA with ur father.

Followers or Christ were first called Christians in Antioch decades after Jesus's rising. Also Jesus Christ was a jew by birth and lineage.

Jesus never rebuked Judaism but he rebuked the Pharisees and Priests for going against the scripture and doing things for their own good.

Jesus came to cleanse judaism adding new laws and fulfilling the covenant, Jesus said "Do not think I have come to abolish the laws of the prophets, I have not come but to fulfill".

This shows that Jesus came to fulfill the covenant, so his message is an extension of Judaism. But his movement didn't have an official name. The name Christians is fully acceptable.

Furthermore, I am not blasphaming the Holy Spirit, all I am saying is that it is nearly impossible to prove that the Holy spirit is fully God, coeternal and coequal to God.

Also, none of the questions have been answered, I want the questions answered with the question numbers.

CodeTemplarr:
Because there is no supreme council like in Islam.

In islam there is a council constantly brainstorming on ways to create self-serving doctrines and rulings, Christianity is liberal on the other hand. No provision for strife-inspired doctrines. Every doctrine is fairly open to challenge and clarification. The fear of God is at the centre. The love of God is at the circumference of Christianity. Strife is discouraged. Coveteousness(material) too.

I am lost here please,
Christianity is liberal in what sense?
1. Can a council change the trinity to dinity removing the holy spirit?
2. Can a council permit adultery?
3. Can a council permit gambling?
4. Can a council rule The son is greater than the Father?
5. Can a council add a new chapter in the Bible?

Liberal in what sense, because I am talking about the foundation of the religion, not a random ruling like dressing or wearing skirts.

I can recall that for salvation a person must -
1. Believe Jesus is God and saviour, confessing and repenting.
2. Believe in the Death and Resurrection and that Jesus died for our sins.

A person that denies trinity has denied the first prerequisite for salvation, how then can you say "LIBERAL" in this sense?

Please elaborate

The reason why i abandoned Islam is the lies that surround your god.

Your prophet told you to always greet each other "SALAM" which means "PEACE" but in the face of politics and racism that peace ends and you will see Muslims killing Muslims yet they will still greet "SALAM"

Whatever teaching or doctrine dividing the Churches of Christendom is better than the lies you people tells yourselves in Islam because it's obvious there is no god among you. Bowing towards the black stone in Mecca is not an evidence of unity but settling disputes by using the words of your god should be proof that you people respect that your god and see it as real.

muslim100:
Followers or Christ were first called Christians in Antioch decades after Jesus's rising. Also Jesus Christ was a jew by birth and lineage.

Jesus never rebuked Judaism but he rebuked the Pharisees and Priests for going against the scripture and doing things for their own good.

Jesus came to cleanse judaism adding new laws and fulfilling the covenant, Jesus said "Do not think I have come to abolish the laws of the prophets, I have not come but to fulfill".

This shows that Jesus came to fulfill the covenant, so his message is an extension of Judaism. But his movement didn't have an official name. The name Christians is fully acceptable.

Furthermore, I am not blasphaming the Holy Spirit, all I am saying is that it is nearly impossible to prove that the Holy spirit is fully God, coeternal and coequal to God.

Also, none of the questions have been answered, I want the questions answered with the question numbers.

why do you want to know the things of immortals are you an immortal? As ur brains are intact you don't like it?

fuckingAyaya:
why do you want to know the things of immortals are you an immortal? As ur brains are intact you don't like it?

Shouldn't I ask questions while seeking truth?

muslim100:
Shouldn't I ask questions while seeking truth?

If truly you are seeking truth tell me what you know Jehovah's Witnesses are teaching about Jesus that's not 100% truth.
In the world today there are thousands of religious groups worshiping thousands of different Gods so asking questions about only those claiming Christians alone shows you only listen to them and not to other religions.
Now if you singled out just one group (Jehovah's Witnesses) out of thousands of others claiming Christians that means you have a reservation for that group yet you said their teaching about Jesus is not 100% correct.
So start your seeking stuff by telling me what exactly is not accurate about JWs teaching of Jesus.

MaxInDHouse:
If truly you are seeking truth tell me what you know Jehovah's Witnesses are teaching about Jesus that's not 100% truth.
In the world today there are thousands of religious groups worshiping thousands of different Gods so asking questions about only those claiming Christians alone shows you only listen to them and not to other religions.
Now if you singled out just one group (Jehovah's Witnesses) out of thousands of others claiming Christians that means you have a reservation for that group yet you said their teaching about Jesus is not 100% correct.
So start your seeking stuff by telling me what exactly is not accurate about JWs teaching of Jesus.

They believe that jesus is Archangel Gabriel, nothing in the Bible suggests such. Can you explain to me how?

muslim100:
They believe that jesus is Archangel Gabriel, nothing in the Bible suggests such. Can you explain to me how?

When you don't know something there's no need claiming they are wrong.

First of all the Bible said Jesus has been with the Almighty God from beginning of creation {John 1:2} and that he also did most of the creation works {Colossians 1:15-16} and there are spirit creatures in heaven (angels) called God's sons {Job 38:7} according to that verse they are all morning stars and Jesus called himself one of them. Revelation 22:16

So if Jesus is one of the angels but the brightest one among them and God's word called only one of them archangel which is Michael who always stand up for the salvation of God's people {Daniel 12:1} who will raise the dead from their graves {Daniel 12:2} and the Bible says clearly that it's the archangel's voice that will raise the dead from their graves! 1Thessalonians 4:16

One angel always represent God when His worshipers needs urgent escape {Exodus 13:21; 14:19 compare to Daniel 3:25} and Jesus emphasized that he has been doing that for so long! Matthew 23:37

Please if Jesus is not the God whom all servants of God has been worshiping for so long but also a worshiper of God and he referred to faithful people as his brother {John 20:17} because he was also born among humans! Matthew 20:28

Who could he be if not the Archangel?

fuckingAyaya:
All the prophets that came before christ were not Christians but Jewish prophets, they communicated with God through an angel none ever communicated with God directly except moses. You said holy spirit is the weakest link in trinity? Don't let ur mouth or thoughts put you in trouble you can't come out from, you can blaspheme against God and be forgiven, even Jesus you can blaspheme against him and also be forgiven but you can't blaspheme against the holy spirit and be forgiven.do you know who the holy spirit is? The holy spirit is the spirit that Carries the presence of God. The holy spirit was the spirit that raised christ from the dead. The trinity can be best described as your body, spirit and soul. Inside ur body there's a spirit and also a soul. The holy spirit is the only spirit that knows the deep things in God's mind/thought. The holy spirit is one but he's everywhere if all the pastors and prophets in this world decide to hold a crusade at the same time in different countries the holy spirit will move and work miracles in all the crusades ground. When u hear God pass man that's just one of it. That sensation you feel when you pray is the holy spirit. And please bro I want to beg you if there's anything you don't understand about the holy spirit you can ask him to tell you and trust me he will reveal some secrets that will put you off balance, that holy spirit can open your eyes for you to see the evil that will happen to you in few minutes if you don't pray to avert it, he can also open you ears to allow you hear what a friend in a faraway city is currently gossiping about you, the holy spirit can also review to you what happened before your parents conceive you and what will happen in the next ten years to you, when you hear God pass man with everything no be beans. The holy spirit is a comforter sent by God to men after christ had ascended to comfort those with heavy and troubled heart if they seek him. Jesus is God just as you share same DNA with ur father.

Below is Genesis 2:7.
Where does the Bible teach that God put soul into man?

King James Bible
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

muyico:
If you wanna know better??
Summit ya self to holy spirit
Moses only see shadow of God!
When saul/Paul seen Jesus Christ in his real form, he was blinded
Moses his eyes 👀 start shining like sun




Seeing God's Face and Being Meek - Light of Truth
No, Moses did not see God's face; the Bible states that no human can see God's face and live, but they did speak "face to face" in an intimate, friend-like manner, with God allowing Moses to see His back as His glory passed by. God explicitly told Moses in Exodus 33:20 that he couldn't see His face, but would be placed in a rock's crevice with His hand covering him, allowing him to glimpse His passing presence (His "back".

Since the holy spirit has made you to know better, why not answer the questions?

Yes,
the Old Testament contains passages interpreted by Christians as foreshadowing or hinting at the Trinity (God as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit), though the doctrine is fully developed in the New Testament; key examples include the divine "Us" in Genesis 1:26 ("Let us make man in our image", the distinct yet unified roles of the Lord and His Spirit in Isaiah 48:16, and figures like the "Angel of the Lord" who embodies God's divine presence, suggesting plurality within the one Godhead.
Key Old Testament Indicators of the Trinity:

Divine Plurality in Creation: Genesis 1:26 ("Let us make man in our image" suggests multiple divine persons (Father, Son/Word, Spirit) involved in creation.
The Spirit of God: Genesis 1:2 describes the Spirit of God hovering over the waters, and Isaiah 63:10 mentions the Holy Spirit being grieved, indicating personal identity.
The Word of God: Psalm 33:6 shows God creating through His Word, which John's Gospel (John 1:1-2) identifies as the Son.
The Angel of the Lord: Appearances of the "Angel of the Lord" (e.g., in Genesis 16, Exodus 3) are often seen as pre-incarnate appearances of Christ, speaking and acting with God's own authority.
Messianic Prophecies: Isaiah 9:6 calls the coming Messiah "Mighty God, Everlasting Father," and Psalm 2:7 calls Him "my son," suggesting both divine and filial aspects.
Isaiah 48:16: "Now the Lord God and his Spirit have sent me," implying three distinct divine persons (Lord God, the "me" or Son, and the Spirit).
The Three Visitors: Genesis 18 shows three men visiting Abraham, one identified as the Lord, hinting at a divine communion.

Truthseeker10:
Since the holy spirit has made you to know better, why not answer the questions?

muyico:
Yes,
the Old Testament contains passages interpreted by Christians as foreshadowing or hinting at the Trinity (God as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit), though the doctrine is fully developed in the New Testament; key examples include the divine "Us" in Genesis 1:26 ("Let us make man in our image", the distinct yet unified roles of the Lord and His Spirit in Isaiah 48:16, and figures like the "Angel of the Lord" who embodies God's divine presence, suggesting plurality within the one Godhead.
Key Old Testament Indicators of the Trinity:

Divine Plurality in Creation: Genesis 1:26 ("Let us make man in our image" suggests multiple divine persons (Father, Son/Word, Spirit) involved in creation.
The Spirit of God: Genesis 1:2 describes the Spirit of God hovering over the waters, and Isaiah 63:10 mentions the Holy Spirit being grieved, indicating personal identity.
The Word of God: Psalm 33:6 shows God creating through His Word, which John's Gospel (John 1:1-2) identifies as the Son.
The Angel of the Lord: Appearances of the "Angel of the Lord" (e.g., in Genesis 16, Exodus 3) are often seen as pre-incarnate appearances of Christ, speaking and acting with God's own authority.
Messianic Prophecies: Isaiah 9:6 calls the coming Messiah "Mighty God, Everlasting Father," and Psalm 2:7 calls Him "my son," suggesting both divine and filial aspects.
Isaiah 48:16: "Now the Lord God and his Spirit have sent me," implying three distinct divine persons (Lord God, the "me" or Son, and the Spirit).
The Three Visitors: Genesis 18 shows three men visiting Abraham, one identified as the Lord, hinting at a divine communion.

Ok....So who is The Jehovah in Psalms 83:18 below, is it the father, son or Holy Spirit?

King James Bible
That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

Truthseeker10:
Below is Genesis 2:7.
Where does the Bible teach that God put soul into man?

King James Bible
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

wetin be this? Are u guys ok in the head? The soul that returns to God for judgement after death is what? Don't be afraid for he who can kill the body but not the soul is what? What shall he profit a man to gain the world and loose the soul is what? The breath of God to man(dust) is what, fufu? I just hope you are ohk.

fuckingAyaya:
wetin be this? Are u guys ok in the head? The soul that returns to God for judgement after death is what? Don't be afraid for he who can kill the body but not the soul is what? What shall he profit a man to gain the world and loose the soul is what? The breath of God to man(dust) is what, fufu? I just hope you are ohk.

lol....so if the breath of life is the soul that God gave to man, Explain Genesis 6:17 and Genesis 7:21 below.


King James Bible
6
17And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die


7
21And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man: 22All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died

Do animals also have soul since God also gave them breath of life?

Anytime I read something like this, one thing is always stands out "No in-depth understanding of the scripture"

muslim100:
I am more inclined to the Jehovah witness model of Jesus because it is more in-line with the Bible - not 100%.

You already shows where your misunderstanding sprouts from.

According to the Trinity - Jesus/Son == Jehovah/Father == Holy spirit, 100% God, coequal and coeternal.

The right way to put this is Jesus == Father == Holy Spirit because the name Yahweh belongs to the Three Persons. Matt 28:19

1. If Jesus was God, how is it that 4000 years of history before he was born, all the prophets sent by God (Abraham, Elijah, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Noah, Moses, Daniel, Samuel, Jonah etc) never ever preached about something close to trinity. Does this mean that today we know God more than his most revered prophets?

You only know about the MAN Jesus when he became part of creation which was after those people you listed have long dead but scripture only revealed that He has being existing long before coming to earth and He was God.

2. Before the birth of Jesus, nobody among the ancient prophets or their followers ever even had any idea about the trinity, and surprisingly they had the complete Old testament - which we use to prove the trinity today!
Isn't it intriguing that (I know about trinity but Moses doesn't)?
Moses literally spoke to God face-to-face!

God's revelation has been in stages. What Adam knows isn't what Noah knew e.t.c

Abraham didn't even have the clue of God's creation processes until it was revealed to Moses

God Himself said He appeared to Abraham but not by His name YAHWEH.

3. All the verses that are used to claim that Jesus is a part of the Godhead can be debunked easily logically, why?
Is God so ambiguous in delivering speech?

If it's so, this should have happened years ago before you were even born.

But I'm glad you know there are verses that are actually say Jesus is God your only problem is that you want to debunk those verses not that there's no verse to support it.

4. 1 John 5:7 which is the ultimate verse that clearly portrays trinity as it is today has been removed from like 3 versions of the bible, verse 8 is now divided to fill the void. Doesn't this ring a bell?

They are called VERSION for a reason not MANUSCRIPTS. The reason why some translations omitted that verse from their version is purely on their own understanding. The same version can be reviewed and that verse will be found there.

5. If truly to be saved I have to believe in Jesus as my Lord and Saviour, how sure am I that the ancient prophets are saved since they never believed in such. All verses in the old testament are clear "God is One". Jesus clearly says "There is one that is good, The father in Heaven".
Is Jesus really as God as the father? Or is he subordinate.

You're just mixing things up.

Jesus is God as Father and not subordinate the three MAKE up ONE GOD.

6. The bible says that "God is unchangeable, God is not a man, God is not the son of man". These are the exact descriptions used for Jesus throughout the gospels by his followers.

The same Jesus followers wrote that "Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever"

God unchangeable doesn't address God can't become man. Read that verse very well.

The full quote of that verse is "God is not a man THAT SHOULD LIE nor the Son of man that should REPENT:"

logically, this even proves that Jesus is God because Jesus never LIED NOR REPENT OF ANY SIN.

7. God is omniscient and omnipotent. There is this verse where Jesus says "No one knows the hour, not even the son, but the father". Jesus is not omniscient.

because Jesus was speaking as a Man not as God.

Let me make this clear also part of the misunderstanding about Jesus being God is to think Jesus was on earth as God. No! The scripture only revealed who was the MAN JESUS is before coming to earth.

The same Jesus followers you agreed with said their Lord and Savior" KNOWS ALL THINGS" and Jesus didn't rebuke them.

8. If Jesus is god then he has a greater God he seeks when in distress. Before the cross incident Jesus asked God for the cup to pass away from him, then while on the cross jesus said "Eli, Eli, lama sabachtani" - "My God, My God, why has thou forsaken me!".
God - Jesus are two different entities that have different purposes.

These are what HUMAN DOES and Jesus was on earth AS A MAN. Don't forget!

9. The case of the Holy spirit is totally different as 8t is the weakest link in the trinity and hardest to prove to be coequal and coeternal with the father. Nothing in the Bible supports the claim.

If Holy Spirit isn't then He can't be placed in the same category with the Father & Son.

Matt 28:19; 2 Corin 13:14

10. I have read history and it clearly supports the claim that the doctrine of trinity was born and raised to perfection in the councils of Nicea and Constantinople and others in the 4th century (3 centuries after jesus was raised).
In the 1st to 3rd centuries more the absolute majority of Christians were either Arians, modalists, Unitarians or Adoptionists far from todays Trinitarian dogma. When the trinitarians made a move they made trinity mainstream. But initially it wasn't.
Popular church fathers quoted till date that are not trinitarians;
1. Ireanaeus of lyons
2. Theophilus of Antioch
3. Tertullian
4. Origen
5. Clement of Rome
6. Arius etc.

I like the way you brought the church fathers into this.

They aren't Trinitarians just as Jesus isn't A Christian. The idea of the Son and the Holy Spirit being God is well uphold by the church fathers. Do you mean they are worshipping THREE GODS or they were polytheists?

If trinity is essential for salvation, why did the early-church produce untrinitatian fathers and why does the church praise these father that were not trinitarians?

Who told you that Trinity is essential for salvation?

Many of you don't even know about Trinity you're fighting to dismiss.

Trinity is a doctrine to support the scripture that Father, Son & HOLY SPIRIT are just ONE GOD because the three are CALLED GOD and have ONLY that attributes that make God to be God.

Infact, there is no Pre-nicean (4th century after jesus) church father who preached trinity.

But they all agreed that The Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God.

So, tell me, are they polytheists?

11. If the Trinity is essential to knowing God correctly, then God withheld essential knowledge from Abraham, Moses, David, and Isaiah-men He called friends and spoke to directly.

You're just making this up because I've never seen where anyone says Trinity is essential to know God correctly.

Trinitarians say, the scripture reveals that The Father is God, The Son is God & The Holy Spirit is also God. So, if Yahweh is one God it means the Three must be the one that make up that ONE GOD.

If the church fathers agreed that The Son is God and The Holy Spirit is God. Do you mean they worshipped THREE GODS?

12. I have never had two 100% identical answers on "Explain the trinity" from any two trinitarians - WHY?

Pure lies whenever you people want cheap attention.

Please and please, things like "It is complex because God is complex, God is a mystery, No one can completely know God" are not answers but traps to further confirm that the trinity isn't firmly rooted in scripture.

Please all answers should be scripture based or scholarly writing not later than the 2nd century, not mere logic.

Bible called The Son God & The Holy Spirit is also called God.

Father being God isn't debatable.

To deny this simple fact is what leads many to different postulations even limited The Holy Spirit to just FORCE despite the plain person attributes given to the Holy Spirit.

And the question they will rather avoid is Was Holy Spirit created?