₦airaland Forum

QuinQ:
Delulu. You were given two complementary chapters Leviticus 16 and Isaiah 53

leviticus is not a prophecy. it is the book of the law.
isaiah 53 is about a suffering SERVANT and isaiah told you more than 8 times prior to 53 that the servant is Israel.. no controversy here.

QuinQ:
Are you ok? Was Rome occupying a part of anything? Were they not ruling almost all the world?

and a new religion was trying to disturb their culture and tradition, they had to fight the brain washing of their children.

QuinQ:
Here is Isaiah 53 verbatim:

He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.

4 Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression[a] and judgment he was taken away.
Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was punished.
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the Lord makes[c] his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.

why did you skip the first two verses ?

sonmvayina:
I don't want conjectures.

Go worship with your Jewish landlord no need worrying yourself!

musicwriter:
Your view is contrary to your Bible!

Your Bible paints the image of a popular Jesus in his time.

He is said to have fed "multitudes" numbering over 5,000.

He resurrected Lazarus from the dead in the presence of many.

He went into a city to heal people and the crowd was so many that some people tied their friend on a rope and threw him into the healing arena through the ceiling.

He went into a city riding a young horse and the people shouted Hosanna throughout the city.

He resurrected from the dead and the whole world saw him ascend into heaven.

He was pelted with stones by the crowd on the day of his crucification. And many people witnessed his crucification. A Pilate even asked the "crowd" who should I release to tou: Jesus or the thief?

So, you must be talking about a different Jesus, not the popular one in your Bible

If some 30-ish guy with 3-'year ministry (there are pastors in Nigeria faking miracles for 20 years yet no one knows them) in Cameroon was ALLEGED to be doing all this would a historian writing history of British Empire even hear about it, talkless of write about it? Only historians writing after Christianity was somewhat established would mention Him!

DeepSight:
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But it still remains so laughable to me because if they executed Bros Jay with a gun, so na so gun for be the symbol today?

LoLz. The Americans would have been happy though.

QuinQ:
sonmvayina what do you say to this? And while at it also tell us HOW this below was talking of Israel and not Jesus!

Isaiah 53
4 Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was punished.
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
y and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.

isaiah 53 is what the kings of the earth will say when they witness the redemption of the Jewish people. isaiah already told you more than 8 times prior to chapter 53 that the servant is Israel. why the controversy??

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus himself knew that history can't be on his side because Satan is the one in control of all the fields having to do with money and riches among mankind that is why he said to his disciples:

"You will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you, and you will be witnesses of me in Jerusalem, in all Ju·deʹa and Sa·marʹi·a, and to the most distant part of the earth" Act 1:8

Are they to be arguing about Jesus' existence?

NO!

Rather it's by their activities as prophesied in the Bible before Jesus that will serve as evidence or witness that the promised Prince Of Peace has come and taught people through his wonderful counsel {Isaiah 9:6} how to form a global family of peace loving worshipers in preparation for the coming new world!

@ Isaiah 2:2-4 and Micah 4:1-3

This is what we found:


In the last days the mountain of the Lord’s temple will be established as the highest of the mountains; it will be exalted above the hills, and all nations will stream to it. Many peoples will come and say, “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the temple of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths.” The law will go out from Zion, the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. He will judge between the nations and will settle disputes for many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore.



Malachi said:


Then those who feared the Lord talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. ‭Malachi 3:16 NIV‬


So if there is a global organization of worshipers who have used what they found in the Bible to resolve all their disparities peacefully among themselves, stop producing, buying selling and using of weapons and vowed never to raise weapons against anyone yet someone keeps agitating about the existence of God's promised Prince Of Peace there is no need wasting my precious time with such ones.

Malachi said while we are going about discussing with interested ones who are seeking the righteousness of God and reasoning with them from the scriptures {Matthew 10:11-13; 28:19-20} Jehovah's angels are writing down our names and the names of those paying attention to us {Malachi 3:16} because that's the only way people's name can enter into the book of life! Revelation 20:15🙂

The question is mentioning Hom at all, whether on His side or not

LordReed:
Again a symbol can represent anything. Do you realise the Nazis used a cross just as they they were killing millions of Jews? I guess that means the Nazis were right in what they were doing because they used the cross?

You may have lost sight of what's being discussed. The discussion is whether he existefd and was crucified. Adoption of cross suggests thst

QuinQ:
The question is mentioning Hom at all, whether on His side or not.

You like worrying yourself my guy.

Can you remember when anyone ask you how people come about using paper designed as money in exchange for everything?

Yet they are ready to quarrel, fight and even kill their neighbors for money.

So if they are seeing the disciples of Christ all over the earth preaching and teaching about God's Kingdom let them continue arguing about Jesus' existence.

LordReed:
LoLz. The Americans would have been happy though.

+
Absolutely!


Seriously though, the thing about the crucifixion method is that it was not just a method of execution - but a method of torturous execution.

Let me be careful to say though that there is the idea that the cross had some other significance and also the idea that he was actually hung from a stake, not a cross. I only add these as the obsessive academic that I am, for they are moot and meaningless points.

sonmvayina:
leviticus is not a prophecy. it is the book of the law.
isaiah 53 is about a suffering SERVANT and isaiah told you more than 8 times prior to 53 that the servant is Israel.. no controversy here.

Leciticus demonstrates sin being heaped on another person or object.
You ate LYING. Show how Isaiah 53 was Israel

QuinQ:
You may have lost sight of what's being discussed. The discussion is whether he existefd and was crucified. Adoption of cross suggests thst

Oh if that is the case then I don't have a problem with that. I can accept that a Jew who was seen as seditious to the empire was crucified, that was how the Romans treated threats to their operations.

sonmvayina:
and a new religion was trying to disturb their culture and tradition, they had to fight the brain washing of their children.

And they were persecuting them. That's what's called PERSECUTION!

DeepSight:
+
Absolutely!


Seriously though, the thing about the crucifixion method is that it was not just a method of execution - but a method of torturous execution.

Let me be careful to say though that there is the idea that the cross had some other significance and also the idea that he was actually hung from a stake, not a cross. I only add these as the obsessive academic that I am, for they are moot and meaningless points.

Yeah they use the picture of the cross to extend their religious symbolism and are not particularly concerned with historical fidelity.

sonmvayina:
why did you skip the first two verses ?

Not relevant to the discussion . Here it is

Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.

sonmvayina:
isaiah 53 is what the kings of the earth will say when they witness the redemption of the Jewish people. isaiah already told you more than 8 times prior to chapter 53 that the servant is Israel. why the controversy??

LIE.
Show where it says so. When has that prophesy been fulfilled?

sonmvayina:
isaiah 53 is what the kings of the earth will say when they witness the redemption of the Jewish people. isaiah already told you more than 8 times prior to chapter 53 that the servant is Israel. why the controversy??

And you actually believe this. Why did Jews remove that chapter 53 from their Bible?

QuinQ:
If some 30-ish guy with 3-'year ministry (there are pastors in Nigeria faking miracles for 20 years yet no one knows them) in Cameroon was ALLEGED to be doing all this would a historian writing history of British Empire even hear about it, talkless of write about it? Only historians writing after Christianity was somewhat established would mention Him!

For your information, Judea wasn't and still isn't a large city, whether judging by ancient or modern standard.

The whole place isn't bigger than a local government area (LGA) in Nigeria. So, your whole perception of the size of the place is wrong to begin with.

Yes, historians of that day recorded names of everything, including names of Jesus'ES of that day. But none of them came across or ever heard of the Jesus of the Bible who's supposed to be the most popular according to your Bible. The reason is because your Jesus NEVER existed.

LordReed:
Yeah they use the picture of the cross to extend their religious symbolism and are not particularly concerned with historical fidelity.

+
That is still thoughtless to me.

In many ways, religions do not think about the things that their roots or history imply.

I wonder if he was executed by a snake bite they would be wearing snake pendants.

musicwriter:
For your information, Judea wasn't and still isn't a large city, whether judging by ancient or modern standard.

The whole place isn't bigger than a local government area (LGA) in Nigeria. So, your whole perception of the size of the place is wrong to begin with.

Yes, historians of that day recorded names of everything, including names of Jesus'ES of that day. But none of them came across or ever heard of the Jesus of the Bible who's supposed to be the most popular according to your Bible. The reason is because your Jesus NEVER existed.

+
He is probably a combination of several people, ancient wisdom from the far east and wild imagination.

MaxInDHouse:
You like worrying yourself my guy.

Can you remember when anyone ask you how people come about using paper designed as money in exchange for everything?

Yet they are ready to quarrel, fight and even kill their neighbors for money.

So if they are seeing the disciples of Christ all over the earth preaching and teaching about God's Kingdom let them continue arguing about Jesus' existence.

Testimonial from all over about what same Jesus is doing - samr Jesus that never existed!

LordReed:
Oh if that is the case then I don't have a problem with that. I can accept that a Jew who was seen as seditious to the empire was crucified, that was how the Romans treated threats to their operations.

Voila!
Cc sonmvayina

musicwriter:
For your information, Judea wasn't and still isn't a large city, whether judging by ancient or modern standard.

The whole place isn't bigger than a local government area (LGA) in Nigeria. So, your whole perception of the size of the place is wrong to begin with.

Yes, historians of that day recorded names of everything, including names of Jesus'ES of that day. But none of them came across or ever heard of the Jesus of the Bible who's supposed to be the most popular according to your Bible. The reason is because your Jesus NEVER existed.

You are making my point. Judea was too small. No one was writing history of Judea or for Judeans. Ser below.
Again, you are confusing an unknown Jesus of then to worldwide Jesus of today.

Why would someone writing a history of Igbos mention Odumeje and his miracles. Ridiculous.
(Yet Odumeje ministry is over 20 years old, compared to 3)

QuinQ:
You are making my point. Judea was too small. No one was writing history of Judea or for Judeans. Ser below.
Again, you are confusing an unknown Jesus of then to worldwide Jesus of today.

Why would someone writing a history of Igbos mention Odumeje and his miracles. Ridiculous

Stop misleading people!!

Again, historians mentioned the names of Jesus'ES of that day that deserved a mention (I've already given you names of some of them). And your Jesus was more prominent than those mentioned- according to your Bible.

A Jesus that was born by a virgin, walked on water, fed multitudes, healed the sick, etc, would have been more important to any historian.

Tell me why historians mentioned names of LESS important Jesus'ES instead of the more important one in your Bible?

musicwriter:
Stop misleading people!!

Again, historians mentioned the names of Jesus'ES of that day that deserved a mention (I've already given you names of some of them). And your Jesus was more prominent than those mentioned- according to your Bible.

A Jesus that was born by a virgin, walked on water, fed multitudes, healed the sick, etc, would have been more important to any historian.

Tell me why historians mentioned names of LESS important Jesus'ES instead of the more important one in your Bible?

+
What do you say of the references by Josephus.

Just asking.

I am not a believer, FYI.

DeepSight:
+
What do you say of the references by Josephus.

Just asking.

I am not a believer, FYI.

Historians have already dismissed supposed Joseph's comment about Jesus as a forgery, unfortunately, people are not aware of this fact.

Josephus NEVER said anything about the Jesus of the Bible, instead the Roman empire inserted comments into Josephus's writing to make it appear as if he was talking about the Jesus of the Bible. It was an age of religious forgery to prove the existence of Jesus by any means possible, including by fraud, in fact, they called it "pious fraud" and it was deemed as doing the " good work" of the Lord.

Use any good AI like Grok and put in the following question "how do historians know that Josephus's comment about Jesus Christ is a forgery?" Of course, you can ask subsequent questions around that

musicwriter:
Stop misleading people!!

Again, historians mentioned the names of Jesus'ES of that day that deserved a mention (I've already given you names of some of them). And your Jesus was more prominent than those mentioned- according to your Bible.

A Jesus that was born by a virgin, walked on water, fed multitudes, healed the sick, etc, would have been more important to any historian.

Tell me why historians mentioned names of LESS important Jesus'ES instead of the more important one in your Bible?

You sound frustratingly obtuse. If today it.is alleged that Odumeje was born of a virgin, walked on water, healed the sick, etc,, would YOU pay attention to any of it? He would not be mentioned in Igbo history talkless of before a Catholic bishop. Yet Odumeje has high connections, has a church, has money, and circulates a lot - unlike Jesus. You are blinded by the stature of Jesus today.

Pharisees needed someone to identify his face, Herod wanted to know him because of the death of John the baptist that he killed thinking Jesus could be resurrected John, and the Roman governor Pontius Pilate viewed the whole story as pure nonsense, had no idea why they were hellbent on killing this completely unknown man!

musicwriter:
Historians have already dismissed supposed Joseph's comment about Jesus as a forgery, unfortunately, people are not aware of this fact.

Josephus NEVER said anything about the Jesus of the Bible, instead the Roman empire inserted comments into Josephus's writing to make it appear as if he was talking about the Jesus of the Bible. It was an age of religious forgery to prove the existence of Jesus by any means possible, including by fraud, in fact, they called it "pious fraud" and it was deemed as doing the " good work" of the Lord.

Use any good AI like Grok and put in the following question "how do historians know that Josephus's comment about Jesus Christ is a forgery?" Of course, you can ask subsequent questions around that

+
No need for me to check it out, I am very well aware of this. I was actually assessing your credentials.
Pass mark.

QuinQ:
You sound frustratingly obtuse. If today it.is alleged that Odumeje was born of a virgin, walked on water, healed the sick, etc,, would YOU pay attention to any of it? He would not be mentioned in Igbo history talkless of before a Catholic bishop. Yet Odumeje has high connections, has a church, has money, and circulates a lot - unlike Jesus. You are blinded by the stature of Jesus today.

Pharisees needed someone to identify his face, Herod wanted to know him because of the death of John the baptist that he killed thinking Jesus could be resurrected John, and the Roman governor Pontius Pilate viewed the whole story as pure nonsense, had no idea why they were hellbent on killing this completely unknown man!

Everything you read about Jesus NEVER happened.

It's work of literature.

Jesus NEVER existed. That's a better reason instead of running around and around.

DeepSight:
+
No need for me to check it out, I am very well aware of this. I was actually assessing your credentials.
Pass mark.

That's good. Please, let me know what thread I can learn more about your past opinion about this and related topics