₦airaland Forum

FxMasterz:
Did it really say heaven? We were never told where the presentation took place. You're just assuming.


I have told you that heaven is a pure place because there's no sin there. Hence, no evil.

+
This sounds escapist to me and I am sure you know it is escapist.

At all events is the presence of Yahweh not holy enough to exclude evil company.

FxMasterz:
Did it really say heaven? We were never told where the presentation took place. You're just assuming.

Where else does the Bible claim that the god holds his councils?

I have told you that heaven is a pure place because there's no sin there. Hence, no evil.

Please answer my question. Do you or do you not concede that the heaven you believe in depicts the possibility?

DeepSight:
+
This sounds escapist to me and I am sure you know it is escapist.

At all events is the presence of Yahweh not holy enough to exclude evil company.

The mental atilogun dance is ramping up. LoLz.

LordReed:
Where else does the Bible claim that the god holds his councils?

Can you answer that question yourself and show us where the Bible claims God holds His council?

Please answer my question. Do you or do you not concede that the heaven you believe in depicts the possibility?

I've answered you so much so that I'm beginning to think I probably didn't get your question well. You might please come again.

FxMasterz:
Can you answer that question yourself and show us where the Bible claims God holds His council?

Psalm 89
6 For who in the skies can be compared to the Lord?
Who among the heavenly beings is like the Lord,
7 a God feared in the council of the holy ones,
great and awesome[b] above all who are around him?

I've answered you so much so that I'm beginning to think I probably didn't get your question well. You might please come again.

Very simply do you agree that evil is not necessary to enjoy good in heaven? Yes or no.

FxMasterz:
Can you answer that question yourself and show us where the Bible claims God holds His council?.

+
Job 1.6
2 Ch 18:19-22

Psalm 82:1 - "God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment."

Daniel 7: 9-10

Isaiah 6 :1-8

LordReed:
Psalm 89
6 For who in the skies can be compared to the Lord?
Who among the heavenly beings is like the Lord,
7 a God feared in the council of the holy ones,
great and awesome[b] above all who are around him?

This scripture does not say that the council holds in heaven. It talks about the heavenly beings. Not the heavenly place. Then, it talks about the council of the holy ones without mentioning the place of the council.

Then, your Job allusion does not actually fit because even if satan appears in heaven for a meeting, that does not mean he dwells there. You cannot say there's evil in heaven just because satan visits. You cannot say I have a cat in my house just because Mr, Donald visits me with his cat.

Very simply do you agree that evil is not necessary to enjoy good in heaven? Yes or no.

Now, I understand you. This is not what I agreed. This is what I inferred. I told you that the conditions in heaven are different to that of earth. That means, heaven does not necessarily have to be enjoyed by the same principle that applies to the earth.

DeepSight:
+
Job 1.6
2 Ch 18:19-22

Psalm 82:1 - "God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment."

Daniel 7: 9-10

Isaiah 6 :1-8

Yeah, God has a divine council, but these Scriptures did not mention the place. Even 'the midst of the gods' is not a place.

FxMasterz:
This scripture does not say that the council holds in heaven. It talks about the heavenly beings. Not the heavenly place. Then, it talks about the council of the holy ones without mentioning the place of the council.

Then, your Job allusion does not actually fit because even if satan appears in heaven for a meeting, that does not mean he dwells there. You cannot say there's evil in heaven just because satan visits. You cannot say I have a cat in my house just because Mr, Donald visits me with his cat.

Where else would heavenly beings hold their council? Can YOU give us any scripture that says they hold council elsewhere?

Now, I understand you. This is not what I agreed. This is what I inferred. I told you that the conditions in heaven are different to that of earth. That means, heaven does not necessarily have to be enjoyed by the same principle that applies to the earth.

Dude this is the thing with you, we have had this kind of discussion where you refuse to give a simple yes or no even though you demand same. Please answer the question with a simple yes or no.

LordReed:
Where else would heavenly beings hold their council? Can YOU give us any scripture that says they hold council elsewhere?

I'm trying to let you see that you don't understand the Bible at all. Yet, you've made a lot of wrong conclusions about the Bible's God based on inadequate knowledge. See how you're reading the Bible. Very flawed. Let me give you a scripture and let me see whT you'll learn from it:

John 1:51: "And he said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you will see heaven opened, and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man.”

Dude this is the thing with you, we have had this kind of discussion where you refuse to give a simple yes or no even though you demand same. Please answer the question with a simple yes or no.

I can't remember anything of such. What I'm tell you is that evil does not dwell in heaven because sin is not tolerated there at all. It is immediately quarantined. God is irritated by sin. It can't stay where God stays.

FxMasterz:
Yeah, God has a divine council, but these Scriptures did not mention the place. Even 'the midst of the gods' is not a place.

+
I dont think even you believe in this excuse.
Perhaps the Divine Council of gods meets in Hell or on Earth?

The words in each verse I cited are more than just suggestive as to the "where."

Be serious please. Dont make one begin to think you are willing to make excuses that no one could take seriously.

FxMasterz:
I'm trying to let you see that you don't understand the Bible at all. Yet, you've made a lot of wrong conclusions about the Bible's God based on inadequate knowledge. See how you're reading the Bible. Very flawed. Let me give you a scripture and let me see whT you'll learn from it:

John 1:51: "And he said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you will see heaven opened, and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man.”

+
Pls just tell us where such meetings are likely to hold if not in heaven, thanks.
+

God is irritated by sin. It can't stay where God stays.

+
How then could Jesus bear the sin of the world on the cross if he is also God?

FxMasterz:
I'm trying to let you see that you don't understand the Bible at all. Yet, you've made a lot of wrong conclusions about the Bible's God based on inadequate knowledge. See how you're reading the Bible. Very flawed. Let me give you a scripture and let me see whT you'll learn from it:

John 1:51: "And he said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you will see heaven opened, and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man.”

Unlike you I don't need to make any interpretations of the text to suit my narrative, a plain text contextual reading is enough. People like you would claim the words it says don't mean what they say.

Look at it, you can't even provide a scripture that backs up your claim that your god's council is held elsewhere than heaven. You can't even be honest with your own holy book.

I can't remember anything of such. What I'm tell you is that evil does not dwell in heaven because sin is not tolerated there at all. It is immediately quarantined. God is irritated by sin. It can't stay where God stays.

Of course you can't remember. LoLz.

Answer my question with a simple yes or no.

LordReed:
Unlike you I don't need to make any interpretations of the text to suit my narrative, a plain text contextual reading is enough. People like you would claim the words it says don't mean what they say.

Look at it, you can't even provide a scripture that backs up your claim that your god's council is held elsewhere than heaven. You can't even be honest with your own holy book.

You're just ranting whatever comes to your mind. I didn't make any claim that God had His council anywhere. I'm claiming that you misquoted that scripture. Not interpretation. You're saying what the scriptures didn't say. Point to me in all honesty where that scripture says God's council is in heaven. Just point it out to me straight, because I can see you want to throw accusations where there are none.

Of course you can't remember. LoLz.

Answer my question with a simple yes or no.

All I can remember is that you want a Yes or No without any explanation. I provided you a No here with explanation as I always do, but you'll come again and again claiming tje question was not answered. I don't actually know your definition of the word 'answer. You probably have a different meaning for that in your dictionary.

DeepSight:
+
Pls just tell us where such meetings are likely to hold if not in heaven, thanks.

I want lirdreed to explain this scripture first. God is not bound to a place like we humans.

Let my friend, lordreed admit he inserted a place into that scripture which the scriptures itself does not insert.
+

+

How then could Jesus bear the sin of the world on the cross if he is also God?

He is not just God. He is also man.

DeepSight:
+
I dont think even you believe in this excuse.
Perhaps the Divine Council of gods meets in Hell or on Earth?

What I'm telling you is that the scripture he quoted are not literally establishing his points. He shot get the right scriptures. He can't tell me that scripture says God meets in a place when that scripture didn't say so. Wherever God holds His council is not mentioned in that scripture he quoted, and he should admit that.

The words in each verse I cited are more than just suggestive as to the "where."

Be serious please. Dont make one begin to think you are willing to make excuses that no one could take seriously.

They're not even suggestive. The gods are not in heaven.

FxMasterz:
You're just ranting whatever comes to your mind. I didn't make any claim that God had His council anywhere. I'm claiming that you misquoted that scripture. Not interpretation. You're saying what the scriptures didn't say. Point to me in all honesty where that scripture says God's council is in heaven. Just point it out to me straight, because I can see you want to throw accusations where there are none.

Very simple show me a scripture that says your god holds his council anywhere other than heaven.

All I can remember is that you want a Yes or No without any explanation. I provided you a No here with explanation as I always do, but you'll come again and again claiming tje question was not answered. I don't actually know your definition of the word 'answer. You probably have a different meaning for that in your dictionary.

Please quote your previous answer and bolden where you wrote no.

So your answer is no evil is necessary to enjoy good in heaven? LoLz. Na wa for mental atilogun dancing.

DeepSight:
+
I dont think even you believe in this excuse.
Perhaps the Divine Council of gods meets in Hell or on Earth?

The words in each verse I cited are more than just suggestive as to the "where."

Be serious please. Dont make one begin to think you are willing to make excuses that no one could take seriously.

They know when they're are cornered, that is when they start equivocating like eels in a net.

FxMasterz:
He is not just God. He is also man.

+
Doesn't matter so long as you say he is God as well.

DeepSight:
+
Doesn't matter so long as you say he is God as well.

It doesn't because both states don't interfere.

LordReed:
Very simple show me a scripture that says your god holds his council anywhere other than heaven.

You're the one inferring that God holds council somewhere. You're the one to show us where He does that.

Please quote your previous answer and bolden where you wrote no.

So your answer is no evil is necessary to enjoy good in heaven? LoLz. Na wa for [<mental atilogun dancing.

I have said it several times with an explanation that the condition on earth is not the same as heaven. Hence the same rules don't apply! I don't like repeating myself thousands of times on simple things like this. I even gave you a contrast between Nigeria and the USA twice.

FxMasterz:
Yeah, God has a divine council, but these Scriptures did not mention the place. Even 'the midst of the gods' is not a place.

+
The question that is key is the presence of the Lord because you should wonder if evil can be in the presence of the Lord - especially since you yourself said the Lord cannot stand sin. You yourself said it "irritates" him. So stop contradicting yourself.

Now, Job 1:6 - here is the expanded context - (note the bold portions).

6 One day the angels came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came with them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” Satan answered the Lord, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.”

8 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.” 9 “Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied. 10 “Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.”

12 The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.” Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.

Now look at 2 Ch 18 and tell me with a straight face that this does not disclose the location -

“Therefore hear the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on his throne with all the heavenly host standing on his right and on his left. 19 And the Lord said, ‘Who will entice Ahab king of Israel into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there?’
+
Can you look at the bold and tell me that does not refer to heaven? With the reference to the throne and the heavenly host before the Lord? If you claim that it does not, frankly I will see no reason to believe that you are being serious going forward.

It is also impossible to read Daniel 7 (even though its a vision being described, and fail to see that it refers to heaven.

Daniel 7:9 “As I looked, “thrones were set in place, and the Ancient of Days took his seat. His clothing was as white as snow; the hair of his head was white like wool. His throne was flaming with fire, and its wheels were all ablaze. 10 A river of fire was flowing, coming out from before him. Thousands upon thousands attended him; ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him. The court was seated, and the books were opened.

Here is Isaiah Chapter 6:1.

1 In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord, high and exalted, seated on a throne; and the train of his robe filled the temple. 2 Above him were seraphim, each with six wings: With two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying.

If you insist that this does not speak about heaven, I have no choice but to leave you alone as I will be forced to conclude that you are deliberately making a joke of the discussion.

FxMasterz:
It doesn't because both states don't interfere.

+
What does this even mean? Are you saying he was no longer God when on the cross?

DeepSight:
+
The question that is key is the presence of the Lord because you should wonder if evil can be in the presence of the Lord - especially since you yourself said the Lord cannot stand sin. You yourself said it "irritates" him. So stop contradicting yourself.

Now, Job 1:6 - here is the expanded context - (note the bold portions).

6 One day the angels came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came with them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” Satan answered the Lord, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.”

8 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.” 9 “Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied. 10 “Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.”

12 The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.” Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.

Now look at 2 Ch 18 and tell me with a straight face that this does not disclose the location -

“Therefore hear the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on his throne with all the heavenly host standing on his right and on his left. 19 And the Lord said, ‘Who will entice Ahab king of Israel into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there?’
+
Can you look at the bold and tell me that does not refer to heaven? With the reference to the throne and the heavenly host before the Lord? If you claim that it does not, frankly I will see no reason to believe that you are being serious going forward.

It is also impossible to read Daniel 7 (even though its a vision being described, and fail to see that it refers to heaven.

Daniel 7:9 “As I looked, “thrones were set in place, and the Ancient of Days took his seat. His clothing was as white as snow; the hair of his head was white like wool. His throne was flaming with fire, and its wheels were all ablaze. 10 A river of fire was flowing, coming out from before him. Thousands upon thousands attended him; ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him. The court was seated, and the books were opened.

Here is Isaiah Chapter 6:1.

1 In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord, high and exalted, seated on a throne; and the train of his robe filled the temple. 2 Above him were seraphim, each with six wings: With two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying.

If you insist that this does not speak about heaven, I have no choice but to leave you alone as I will be forced to conclude that you are deliberately making a joke of the discussion.

You're bit getting me at all.

I'm not arguing about where the council holds. I'm arguing that the scripture presented by lordreed is not adequate enough for what he claims. Please get me right. I am telling him that he's wrongly inferring what the verse didn't infer. I am not discussing about the council's meeting place at all.

As for the scripture in Job, I have told lordreed that even if heaven is inferred as the location of the council, that verse didn't say Satan was dwelling in heaven. This applies to your Ahab scripture above too. Like I said to him, you cannot say there's a cat in my house just because Mr. Donald visits me with his cat. You cannot say there's evil in heaven just because Satan goes there for a meeting. However, there's nothing in that job scripture that states Satan was meeting with God in heaven.

God is not confined to a place. Purge yourself of whatever religion has told you, and learn God for yourself. God is not a Being confined to a place. God having a meeting does not necessarily mean that the meeting is holding in heaven. God is omnipresent.

That's why I gave him thT scripture which he ignored. Perhaps, you can help him. Can you tell me what you understand about John 1:51:


He then added, “Very truly I tell you, you will see ‘heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending on’ the Son of Man."

DeepSight:
+
What does this even mean? Are you saying he was no longer God when on the cross?

He was God in heaven and Man on earth at the same time. What exactly do you need clarification on? Or, are you thinking that His human nature was transmitting evil into heaven? Even as man on earth, Jesus was known to be absolutely sinless.

FxMasterz:
You're the one inferring that God holds council somewhere. You're the one to show us where He does that.

Which I did but you can't.

I have said it several times with an explanation that the condition on earth is not the same as heaven. Hence the same rules don't apply! I don't like repeating myself thousands of times on simple things like this. I even gave you a contrast between Nigeria and the USA twice.

I didn't ask you to explain anything I asked you to say yes or no to a simple question you said you said no which will translate to to "no, evil is necessary to enjoy evil in heaven". If evil is not necessary to enjoy good in heaven then you are just dribbling your own shadow and hiding behind your finger.

FxMasterz:
You're bit getting me at all.

I'm not arguing about where the council holds. I'm arguing that the scripture presented by lordreed is not adequate enough for what he claims. Please get me right. I am telling him that he's wrongly inferring what the verse didn't infer. I am not discussing about the council's meeting place at all.

As for the scripture in Job, I have told lordreed that even if heaven is inferred as the location of the council, that verse didn't say Satan was dwelling in heaven. This applies to your Ahab scripture above too. Like I said to him, you cannot say there's a cat in my house just because Mr. Donald visits me with his cat. You cannot say there's evil in heaven just because Satan goes there for a meeting. However, there's nothing in that job scripture that states Satan was meeting with God in heaven.

God is not confined to a place. Purge yourself of whatever religion has told you, and learn God for yourself. God is not a Being confined to a place. God having a meeting does not necessarily mean that the meeting is holding in heaven. God is omnipresent.

That's why I gave him thT scripture which he ignored. Perhaps, you can help him. Can you tell me what you understand about John 1:51:


He then added, “Very truly I tell you, you will see ‘heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending on’ the Son of Man."

LoLz. Why do you do this to yourself?

FxMasterz:
You're bit getting me at all.

I'm not arguing about where the council holds. I'm arguing that the scripture presented by lordreed is not adequate enough for what he claims. Please get me right. I am telling him that he's wrongly inferring what the verse didn't infer. I am not discussing about the council's meeting place at all.

As for the scripture in Job, I have told lordreed that even if heaven is inferred as the location of the council, that verse didn't say Satan was dwelling in heaven. This applies to your Ahab scripture above too. Like I said to him, you cannot say there's a cat in my house just because Mr. Donald visits me with his cat. You cannot say there's evil in heaven just because Satan goes there for a meeting. However, there's nothing in that job scripture that states Satan was meeting with God in heaven.

God is not confined to a place. Purge yourself of whatever religion has told you, and learn God for yourself. God is not a Being confined to a place. God having a meeting does not necessarily mean that the meeting is holding in heaven. God is omnipresent.

That's why I gave him thT scripture which he ignored. Perhaps, you can help him. Can you tell me what you understand about John 1:51:


He then added, “Very truly I tell you, you will see ‘heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending on’ the Son of Man."

+
I quoted more than those two verses and they also included descriptive verses with the throne of God and heavenly hosts.
I drop the topic. This is too escapist and unconvincing.

FxMasterz:
He was God in heaven and Man on earth at the same time. What exactly do you need clarification on? Or, are you thinking that His human nature was transmitting evil into heaven? Even as man on earth, Jesus was known to be absolutely sinless.

+
On the cross, he is said to be bearing the sin of man, hence the argument that God (himself) forsook him at that moment, leading to the cry "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me."

DeepSight:
+
I quoted more than those two verses and they also included descriptive verses with the throne of God and heavenly hosts.
I drop the topic. This is too escapist and unconvincing.

He is just being contrarian just to be contrarian.

DeepSight:
+
On the cross, he is said to be bearing the sin of man, hence the argument that God (himself) forsook him at that moment, leading to the cry "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me."

Does that mean He transmitted the sins to heaven? He went to hell afterwards, dropped all the suns there, and returned to earth bound for heaven.

DeepSight:
+
I quoted more than those two verses and they also included descriptive verses with the throne of God and heavenly hosts.
I drop the topic. This is too escapist and unconvincing.

I am not arguing about the location of God's council.

You feel it's excspisy because you still don't understand my angle of argument.

I am not even saying God's council is not in heaven. I am saying the dude's reference scripture was wrong. That's my point.

God can meet anywhere, but that's not what I'm arguing about.