₦airaland Forum

honesttalk21:
What exactly is your point?

There is no way people won't argue over what is right to do but lifting weapons against one another is Satan's work o!😃

MaxInDHouse:
There is no way people won't argue over what is right to do but lifting weapons against one another is Satan's work o!😃

It's human to disagree, but violence doesn't automatically make something evil. It really comes down to moral boundaries. Even your own holy writings acknowledge that using force is okay in some situations, like defending yourself or when justice demands it. The issue isn't with weapons themselves, but with unjust acts of aggression. To pin all use of force on Satan is to ignore the truth and even go against what the Bible teaches. Look at Exodus 22:2, which says it's acceptable to kill a burglar if you're defending yourself, or Romans 13:4, which tells us that authority does not bear the sword in vain.

Guy weapons means ending the lives of people you know just as Cain killed Abel so it's meant for enemies not families.
Therefore when you raise weapons against someone do you still refer to such a person as your family before the elders of that family?🙂

So weapons aren't meant for brothers in faith that is what makes Islam useless because if truly Allah exists and you guys have elders in your religion there is no reason for brothers to raise weapons against one another!🙂

honesttalk21:
It's human to disagree, but violence doesn't automatically make something evil. It really comes down to moral boundaries. Even your own holy writings acknowledge that using force is okay in some situations, like defending yourself or when justice demands it. The issue isn't with weapons themselves, but with unjust acts of aggression. To pin all use of force on Satan is to ignore the truth and even go against what the Bible teaches. Look at Exodus 22:2, which says it's acceptable to kill a burglar if you're defending yourself, or Romans 13:4, which tells us that authority does not bear the sword in vain.

MaxInDHouse:
Guy weapons means ending the lives of people you know just as Cain killed Abel so it's meant for enemies not families.
Therefore when you raise weapons against someone do you still refer to such a person as your family before the elders of that family?🙂

So weapons aren't meant for brothers in faith that is what makes Islam useless because if truly Allah exists and you guys have elders in your religion there is no reason for brothers to raise weapons against one another!🙂

You're right. Taking up arms against fellow Muslims, particularly those within your own family or community, is definitely off-limits in Islam. The Qur'an actually instructs believers to sort things out and talk to each other (Qur'an 49:9-10), which involves respecting our elders and finding peaceful solutions to disagreements. Weapons are really only meant for self-defense or to put an end to injustice, not for petty squabbles or political power plays among those who share the same faith.

Where Muslims end up fighting each other, even with wise counsel and guidance available, it really just shows that we're fallible humans who sometimes misinterpret things or simply ignore good advice. It's not a problem with Islam itself. The core of Islam is about unity, fairness, and looking out for each other, with a strong emphasis on respecting family bonds and the wisdom of our community elders.

Well that is the purpose of the holy book so if any community failed in that aspect then the religion is useless!

Jesus said:

"By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they?  Likewise, every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit. A good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, nor can a rotten tree produce fine fruit" Matthew 7:16-18

So if your holy book failed to make this work in the gathering of it's adherents then that book is worthless.

The purpose of anything called "HOLY" is to produce a unique FRUIT in the midst of imperfect humans that FRUIT should have these nine qualities:

LOVE, JOY, PEACE, PATIENCE, KINDNESS, GOODNESS, FAITH, MILDNESS, SELF-CONTROL.

Paul said: "against these qualities there is no law." Galatians 5:22-23😟

honesttalk21:
You're right. Taking up arms against fellow Muslims, particularly those within your own family or community, is definitely off-limits in Islam. The Qur'an actually instructs believers to sort things out and talk to each other (Qur'an 49:9-10), which involves respecting our elders and finding peaceful solutions to disagreements. Weapons are really only meant for self-defense or to put an end to injustice, not for petty squabbles or political power plays among those who share the same faith.
Where Muslims end up fighting each other, even with wise counsel and guidance available, it really just shows that we're fallible humans who sometimes misinterpret things or simply ignore good advice. It's not a problem with Islam itself. The core of Islam is about unity, fairness, and looking out for each other, with a strong emphasis on respecting family bonds and the wisdom of our community elders.

MaxInDHouse:
Well that is the purpose of the holy book so if any community failed in that aspect then the religion is useless!

Jesus said:

"By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they?  Likewise, every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit. A good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, nor can a rotten tree produce fine fruit" Matthew 7:16-18

So if your holy book failed to make this work in the gathering of it's adherents then that book is worthless.

The purpose of anything called "HOLY" is to produce a unique FRUIT in the midst of imperfect humans that FRUIT should have these nine qualities:

LOVE, JOY, PEACE, PATIENCE, KINDNESS, GOODNESS, FAITH, MILDNESS, SELF-CONTROL.

Paul said: "against these qualities there is no law." Galatians 5:22-23😟

That principle applies to everyone. A sacred text is evaluated based on its teachings and directives, not on every shortcoming of its adherents. According to your own scriptures, Israel faltered time and again, yet God's law wasn't dismissed as valueless; the people were judged, not the divine message.

Islam clearly instructs the very virtues you mention,justice, compassion, forbearance, discipline, peacemaking while denouncing tyranny and violence. When Muslims transgress these virtues, it's an act of disobedience, not evidence of the Qur'an's failure. Deplorable actions demonstrate a flawed response, not a flawed source.

You should understand the metaphor used in your book where a good tree is true guidance and produces good fruit when obeyed; bad fruit shows disobedience, not that the tree itself is rotten.

honesttalk21:
That principle applies to everyone. A sacred text is evaluated based on its teachings and directives, not on every shortcoming of its adherents. According to your own scriptures, Israel faltered time and again, yet God's law wasn't dismissed as valueless; the people were judged, not the divine message.

God rejected the nation of Israel since they are not producing the fruit of faith {Matthew 21:43; 23:37-38} that is what our Iman used to quote so this is no time to be dishonest my guy.
That nation has been condemned because they failed to produce the fruit of faith and so makes the divine writings worthless before observers.

honesttalk21:
Islam clearly instructs the very virtues you mention,justice, compassion, forbearance, discipline, peacemaking while denouncing tyranny and violence. When Muslims transgress these virtues, it's an act of disobedience, not evidence of the Qur'an's failure. Deplorable actions demonstrate a flawed response, not a flawed source.

You should understand the metaphor used in your book where a good tree is true guidance and produces good fruit when obeyed; bad fruit shows disobedience, not that the tree itself is rotten.

Jesus said it's a bad tree that will produce a rotten fruit. Matthew 7:16-18

Now is the time to be honest with yourself my guy!🙂

MaxInDHouse:
God rejected the nation of Israel since they are not producing the fruit of faith {Matthew 21:43; 23:37-38} that is what our Iman used to quote so this is no time to be dishonest my guy.
That nation has been condemned because they failed to produce the fruit of faith and so makes the divine writings worthless before observers.


Jesus said it's a bad tree that will produce a rotten fruit. Matthew 7:16-18

Now is the time to be honest with yourself my guy!🙂

Jesus didn't say that God's revealed truth became worthless. Rather, he indicated that a privilege was being taken away, but the truth itself remained. Matthew 21:43 is a condemnation of a generation's shortcomings, not a dismissal of God's word. If failure invalidated revelation, then Moses, the prophets, and even the disciples themselves could be considered bad trees. The presence of bad fruit reveals disobedient people, not a corrupted source of truth.

I don't know what misinterpretation or misunderstanding stands in and between you and your Imam.

honesttalk21:
Jesus didn't say that God's revealed truth became worthless. Rather, he indicated that a privilege was being taken away, but the truth itself remained. Matthew 21:43 is a condemnation of a generation's shortcomings, not a dismissal of God's word. If failure invalidated revelation, then Moses, the prophets, and even the disciples themselves could be considered bad trees. The presence of bad fruit reveals disobedient people, not a corrupted source of truth.
I don't know what misinterpretation or misunderstanding stands in and between you and your Imam.

The purpose of those scriptures wasn't met that is why God rejected the nation and replaced them with Christians and destroyed that nation with their temple.

So can you present an Islamic group that is producing what we are saying now?

If Islam is just about bowing down to the deity and no lasting peace among those worshiping your god then how can that be a replacement for the nation of Israel that also committed the same blunder repeatedly?🙂

MaxInDHouse:
The purpose of those scriptures wasn't met that is why God rejected the nation and replaced them with Christians and destroyed that nation with their temple.

So can you present an Islamic group that is producing what we are saying now?

If Islam is just about bowing down to the deity and no lasting peace among those worshiping your god then how can that be a replacement for the nation of Israel that also committed the same blunder repeatedly?🙂

Let me point to you the following:

1. False causation as Israel’s judgment doesn't equate automatic replacement” by Christians.

2.Category error as scripture truth doesn't translate to perfection of followers. Even Jesus states only God is good.

3. Your standard of demanding flawless peace now contradicts biblical eschatology.

4. You excuse Christian failures but condem Islamic ones.

5. Worship doesn't equate peace or obedience; both texts allow human failure.

6. Scripture never requires any community to achieve perfect global peace as proof of revelation's validity. You've invented a standard neither Bible nor Qur'an demands

The only evidence that the God of Israel is the true God comes from His ability to create peace among His worshipers {Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3; Zephaniah 3:9} with the use of the scriptures apart from that all religions are the same you are just deceiving yourself with worthless books if your book can't make peace reign among its adherents.

That's the only proof of authenticity over all other religions!🙂

honesttalk21:
Let me point to you the following:

1. False causation as Israel’s judgment doesn't equate automatic replacement” by Christians.

2.Category error as scripture truth doesn't translate to perfection of followers. Even Jesus states only God is good.

3. Your standard of demanding flawless peace now contradicts biblical eschatology.

4. You excuse Christian failures but condem Islamic ones.

5. Worship doesn't equate peace or obedience; both texts allow human failure.

6. Scripture never requires any community to achieve perfect global peace as proof of revelation's validity. You've invented a standard neither Bible nor Qur'an demands

MaxInDHouse:
The only evidence that the God of Israel is the true God comes from His ability to create peace among His worshipers {Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3; Zephaniah 3:9} with the use of the scriptures apart from that all religions are the same you are just deceiving yourself with worthless books if your book can't make peace reign among its adherents.

That's the only proof of authenticity over all other religions!🙂

You have certain fixations on your belief but know the writings you refer to point to a future, God-given peace that's yet to come, not a present-day sign of truth. Based on your own criteria, both Christianity and the Jehovah's Witnesses would fall short, given their internal disagreements, prophecies that haven't panned out, and the continued presence of conflict. The scriptures don't say that current harmony among believers is what proves God's validity. That perfect peace is something promised for the end times, not necessarily for right now.

Globally all Jehovah's Witnesses fulfilled that prophecy perfectly so when you hear of war among people claiming they are worshipers of God know today that you can't find one member of Jehovah's Witnesses there.
That's the distinction between true and false religions!🙂

honesttalk21:
You have certain fixations on your belief but know the writings you refer to point to a future, God-given peace that's yet to come, not a present-day sign of truth. Based on your own criteria, both Christianity and the Jehovah's Witnesses would fall short, given their internal disagreements, prophecies that haven't panned out, and the continued presence of conflict. The scriptures don't say that current harmony among believers is what proves God's validity. That perfect peace is something promised for the end times, not necessarily for right now.

MaxInDHouse:
Globally all Jehovah's Witnesses fulfilled that prophecy perfectly so when you hear of war among people claiming they are worshipers of God know today that you can't find one member of Jehovah's Witnesses there.
That's the distinction between true and false religions!🙂

Jehovah's Witnesses often suggest their commitment to pacifism as a fulfillment of prophecies found in Isaiah 2, Micah 4, and Zephaniah 3. However, this interpretation seems to miss the mark and doesn't align with the truth in the real world. Those prophecies speak of a widespread peace, established and maintained by God Himself. It's a vision of all nations coming together, God acting as the ultimate judge between people, and warfare ceasing across the entire globe. It's not simply about one religious group choosing to abstain from military involvement. The reality is that wars continue, nations haven't flocked to the Witnesses for guidance, and God's law hasn't emanated from Zion as prophesied. Practicing pacifism alone doesn't prove anything significant, as groups like the Amish, Mennonites, Quakers, and even early Christians have held similar beliefs. Furthermore, the Witnesses themselves struggle with internal discord. Their history includes failed predictions, the painful practice of shunning that can tear families apart, frequent changes in core beliefs, documented instances of covering up abuse, and an overall authoritarian structure. These issues reveal division, not the fulfillment of divine prophecy. A universal prophecy simply can't be satisfied by a selective decision to abstain from military service.

honesttalk21:
Those prophecies speak of a widespread peace, established and maintained by God Himself.

If JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES are people from all the nations of the world and the peace mentioned in the Bible book of Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3 and Zephaniah 3:9 is working among us what else do you need to tell you that it's God who is making this happen among people from different countries?🙂
If i asked you how your muhammad can be counted among God's prophets even though he is not related to Jacob you will start quoting the Bible.
So what evidence do you have that the scriptures your people are quoting in support of Muhammad aren't meant for another future prophet?🙂

MaxInDHouse:
If JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES are people from all the nations of the world and the peace mentioned in the Bible book of Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3 and Zephaniah 3:9 is working among us what else do you need to tell you that it's God who is making this happen among people from different countries?🙂
If i asked you how your muhammad can be counted among God's prophets even though he is not related to Jacob you will start quoting the Bible.
So what evidence do you have that the scriptures your people are quoting in support of Muhammad aren't meant for another future prophet?🙂

Perhaps that is why you self condition with if knowing Isaiah 2 and Micah 4 speak of all nations turning to God, a complete end to global war, and divine law emanating from Zion. This isn't just about a small group of 8 million people avoiding conflict while wars still rage on. The Amish and Mennonites are also pacifist groups, which highlights the weakness of that argument. The broken prophecies, the harmful practice of shunning, and the attempts to hide abuse all contradict the idea that this is God-made peace. Basically, you're mistaking organizational control for the arrival of the Messiah.

Those prophecies were never meant to apply to one ethnic group alone. Balaam and Job weren't Israelites, and the blessing given to Abraham was meant for all nations, including the descendants of Ishmael. When Deuteronomy 18 mentions brothers, it means all of Abraham's kin. Obviously you know that's why you stated but why you choose to attempt to deny only you know.

The real challenge is to demonstrate how these prophecies are being fulfilled now, with wars still happening around the world, instead of trying to force a particular sect into an eschatological framework.

honesttalk21:
The Amish and Mennonites are also pacifist groups,

Are they making disciples globally for the Prince of Peace! Act 1:8
Are they going to all the nations to make people disciples of Christ {Matthew 28:19-20} or using God's word to settle their disparities? Matthew 5:9

For your information the destruction of unbelievers will be based on obedience to the Prince of Peace {Isaiah 9:6} as they failed to obey the son of God! John 3:16-19

So it's after Jehovah's Witnesses have gathered peace lovers throughout the earth that God will send His angels to destroy warmongers because they are running our planet due to their wars! Revelations 11:18

MaxInDHouse:
Are they making disciples globally for the Prince of Peace! Act 1:8
Are they going to all the nations to make people disciples of Christ {Matthew 28:19-20} or using God's word to settle their disparities? Matthew 5:9

For your information the destruction of unbelievers will be based on obedience to the Prince of Peace {Isaiah 9:6} as they failed to obey the son of God! John 3:16-19

So it's after Jehovah's Witnesses have gathered peace lovers throughout the earth that God will send His angels to destroy warmongers because they are running our planet due to their wars! Revelations 11:18

You're piling up quotations of verses without proving they've actually come true, and that's where the problem lies.

Acts 1:8 and Matthew 28:19-20 are about spreading the word, not about eliminating war before God steps in. No Bible verse says world peace, achieved by some group, has to happen before God judges the world. That idea is added in, not taken from the text.

Matthew 5:9 praises those who make peace, but it doesn't say they'll make war impossible on a global scale, or that one specific group becomes the only path to peace. That's mixing things up - a moral encouragement isn't the same as a prophecy being fulfilled.

Then you create a false choice that either Jehovah's Witnesses are gathering peace-lovers, or God's peace hasn't started.

That's just not true.

If that were true, then the Amish, Mennonites, Quakers, and many other peace-loving groups would also fit the bill which shows why your argument doesn't hold up.

Now, about Isaiah 9:6 calling the Messiah the Prince of Peace doesn't mean peace has to be fully achieved before judgment day. Actually, Jesus himself goes against your interpretation with don't think I came to bring peace on Earth. I didn't come to bring peace, but a sword. (Matthew 10:34)

So, either you're misinterpreting Isaiah, or
Jesus contradicts Isaiah.

You can't have it both ways.

John 3:16-19 is about believing and being judged not about following a modern organization. You've subtly swapped faith in God for obedience to Watchtower teachings, which is exactly the kind of control disguised as salvation that the prophets warned against.

Now, let's talk about Revelation 11:18: Yes, God judges the nations but the verse says they were already destroying the earth. Judgment comes after corruption; it doesn't wait for a small group to finish their recruiting. You've got your timing backward.

And here's the big issue you avoided If Isaiah 2 and Micah 4 are being fulfilled now, why are wars still happening everywhere?

Saying peace lovers exist isn't the same as nation will not take up sword against nation.

That prophecy is worldwide, obvious, and complete not symbolic, not just partly true, and not limited to 8 million people avoiding military service.

You haven't shown prophecies being fulfilled only stated it. You're confusing being peaceful with the Messiah's peace.

You're replacing faith with loyalty to an organization.

You're ignoring the wars still happening while claiming peace has arrived.

That's not interpreting the Bible.

That's trying to fit a group into prophecy after the fact.

If the Prince of Peace had already begun his rule, the world would know it without needing the Watchtower to explain it.

honesttalk21:
Acts 1:8 and Matthew 28:19-20 are about spreading the word, not about eliminating war before God steps in.

Jesus commanded his disciples never to raise weapons against anyone be it friend or foe {Matthew 5:43-48} even though the authorities sent thugs to get Jesus Peter wanted to fight Jesus rebuked him {Matthew 26:52} so when everyone obey the Prince of Peace wars will cease to the extremity of the earth but what about those who failed to get the message?
They will be destroyed! Revelation 11:18

Guy your own god may not be organized but the true God is, we know His reasons for destroying people it's not about bowing towards a black stone in Mecca it's about what Satan is doing underG to make sure mankind wipe out himself on this planet {Revelation 12:12} that is the reason why God sent His son to organize all lovers of peace globally not just bowing towards the same direction yet when there is a dispute they pick up weapons against one another!🙂

Deway52:
I am convinced that JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES are the real religion, they do everything in line with the bible.
Na small time remain for me now, I don enter. If everybody in the world is a jw the world would be a better place.

This is what Mohandas Gandhi a man who read what Jesus taught with sincerity and honesty said about those claiming Christians.

"I like your Christ but i don't like your Christians because you Christians are unlike your Christ"

Do you think he will say this if he knows what i'm showing you today?

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus commanded his disciples never to raise weapons against anyone be it friend or foe {Matthew 5:43-48} even though the authorities sent thugs to get Jesus Peter wanted to fight Jesus rebuked him {Matthew 26:52} so when everyone obey the Prince of Peace wars will cease to the extremity of the earth but what about those who failed to get the message?
They will be destroyed! Revelation 11:18

Guy your own god may not be organized but the true God is, we know His reasons for destroying people it's not about bowing towards a black stone in Mecca it's about what Satan is doing underG to make sure mankind wipe out himself on this planet {Revelation 12:12} that is the reason why God sent His son to organize all lovers of peace globally not just bowing towards the same direction yet when there is a dispute they pick up weapons against one another!🙂

If it simply works that way we wouldn't be having this discussion.

You're mixing up personal non-violence with the idea that everything will be perfect worldwide.

Sure, Jesus told his followers not to use violence but in Matthew 5 and 26:52. But he didn't say wars would stop before the final judgment. Actually, he said wars would keep happening in Matthew 24:7. So, peace isn't something that has to happen first. Judgment comes because the world just doesn't want peace.

Revelation 11:18 isn't about people not joining a group. It's about those who are already wrecking the planet. Judgment happens because of corruption, not because people aren't signing up.

Saying God is organized doesn't really prove anything. God organized Israel and the early church, but there were still conflicts. Being organized doesn't automatically mean there's divine peace.

And saying that Islam is just about bowing to a black stone or in a particular direction is a bit of a simplification, don't you think? Do you consider that and the verse that speaks of this in the Quran since you say you used to be a muslim. Wars aren't about which way people pray; they're about power and unfairness.

honesttalk21:
Jesus said wars would keep happening in Matthew 24:7

Because Satan and Demons driven away from heaven will come down to planet earth and possess many unbelievers {Revelation 12:12} true believers will not be part of them due to our faith in the Prince of Peace {John 17:14} that is why Jesus prayed to God for protection of his obedient disciples {John 17:15} so when you people are fighting and killing one another claiming you are doing so for justice {Revelations 6:3-4} God's word urged us to trust in God and refrain from violence {Psalms 37:6-8} because haughty people will be destroyed but we who are patiently waiting for God's divine judgement will be blessed to live on planet earth {Psalms 37:9-11} for how long? God's word said forever! Psalms 37:29
That is why Jesus said we who are MEEK or HUMBLE will take possession of the earth! Matthew 5:5 compare to Zephaniah 2:2-3
Your muhammad don't know what God will use as criteria for righteousness but he quoted David instead of seeking true knowledge. Quran 21:105🙂

MaxInDHouse:
This is what Mohandas Gandhi a man who read what Jesus taught with sincerity and honesty said about those claiming Christians.

"I like your Christ but i don't like your Christians because you Christians are unlike your Christ"

Do you think he will say this if he knows what i'm showing you today?

[quo

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus commanded his disciples never to raise weapons against anyone be it friend or foe {Matthew 5:43-48} even though the authorities sent thugs to get Jesus Peter wanted to fight Jesus rebuked him {Matthew 26:52} so when everyone obey the Prince of Peace wars will cease to the extremity of the earth but what about those who failed to get the message?
They will be destroyed! Revelation 11:18

Guy your own god may not be organized but the true God is, we know His reasons for destroying people it's not about bowing towards a black stone in Mecca it's about what Satan is doing underG to make sure mankind wipe out himself on this planet {Revelation 12:12} that is the reason why God sent His son to organize all lovers of peace globally not just bowing towards the same direction yet when there is a dispute they pick up weapons against one another!🙂

te author=MaxInDHouse post=138238908]
Because Satan and Demons driven away from heaven will come down to planet earth and possess many unbelievers {Revelation 12:12} true believers will not be part of them due to our faith in the Prince of Peace {John 17:14} that is why Jesus prayed to God for protection of his obedient disciples {John 17:15} so when you people are fighting and killing one another claiming you are doing so for justice {Revelations 6:3-4} God's word urged us to trust in God and refrain from violence {Psalms 37:6-8} because haughty people will be destroyed but we who are patiently waiting for God's divine judgement will be blessed to live on planet earth {Psalms 37:9-11} for how long? God's word said forever! Psalms 37:29
That is why Jesus said we who are MEEK or HUMBLE will take possession of the earth! Matthew 5:5 compare to Zephaniah 2:2-3
Your muhammad don't know what God will use as criteria for righteousness but he quoted David instead of seeking true knowledge. Quran 21:105🙂[/quote]You keep compulsively twisting moral pacifism into some kind of divisive litmus test.

Jesus told his followers to avoid violence, sure, but he never implied wars would magically disappear before the end times. Actually, he predicted they'd keep happening (Matthew 24:7). Revelation 11:18 is about judging those actively wrecking the planet, not handing out prizes for joining a specific group.

The God is organized argument doesn't hold water. God organized Israel and the early church, and they still had their share of violence. Being organized doesn't automatically equal divine perfection.

And using the black stone thing to bash Islam is a cheap shot. Wars are about the struggle for power, not which direction people face when they pray.

Plus, quoting the Psalms to attack Muhammad pbuh is a bad move. Qur'an 21:105 clearly acknowledges David, showing a connection, not a lack of understanding.

Basically you're mixing up personal obedience with claiming to be the only true path, confusing being a pacifist with making prophecies, and mistaking an organization for the actual Kingdom of God. Take your views and rejoice in your small group in a delusive world. It's your decision.

honesttalk21:
Jesus told his followers to avoid violence, sure, but he never implied wars would magically disappear before the end times.

Of course disobedient humans will still continue fighting and killing themselves thinking they are doing so for justice nah!🙂
That is why God's word to faithful people is to wait for the judgment of God:

Keep silent before Jehovah And wait expectantly for him. Do not be upset by the man Who succeeds in carrying out his schemes.  Let go of anger and abandon rage; Do not become upset and turn to doing evil.  For evil men will be done away with, But those hoping in Jehovah will possess the earth.  Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there.  But the meek will possess the earth, And they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace. Psalms 37:7-11

This prophecy is undergoing fulfilment in our time, the Prince of Peace has come in person of Jesus Christ {Isaiah 9:6} so all those believing in him will not take up weapons against anyone while Satan's worshipers will be blindfolded thinking they are fighting for justice! Revelation 6:3-4

Of course you should know that Satan's worshipers will always outnumber faithful people nah! Revelation 20:8🙂

honesttalk21:
Plus, quoting the Psalms to attack Muhammad pbuh is a bad move. Qur'an 21:105 clearly acknowledges David, showing a connection, not a lack of understanding.

Your Muhammad quoted David but why can't he help his followers to put trust in the God who made that promise?

Instead Muhammad's followers are still fighting and killing themselves for power yet they have what David said about the righteous in their book.

honesttalk21:
And using the black stone thing to bash Islam is a cheap shot. Wars are about the struggle for power.

Today when Muslims hear that Muslims in any part of the earth are killed your people will unite planning to revenge but then when Muslims are killing their own fellow Muslims you will say they are struggling for power. I wonder why you failed to see the hypocrisy in that yet you called yourself "honesttalk"

So what is the essence of their faith?

Please what exactly is the purpose of your religion if those claiming believers in your religion failed to live by the things written in their book?🙂

MaxInDHouse:
Of course disobedient humans will still continue fighting and killing themselves thinking they are doing so for justice nah!🙂
That is why God's word to faithful people is to wait for the judgment of God:

Keep silent before Jehovah And wait expectantly for him. Do not be upset by the man Who succeeds in carrying out his schemes.  Let go of anger and abandon rage; Do not become upset and turn to doing evil.  For evil men will be done away with, But those hoping in Jehovah will possess the earth.  Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there.  But the meek will possess the earth, And they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace. Psalms 37:7-11

This prophecy is undergoing fulfilment in our time, the Prince of Peace has come in person of Jesus Christ {Isaiah 9:6} so all those believing in him will not take up weapons against anyone while Satan's worshipers will be blindfolded thinking they are fighting for justice! Revelation 6:3-4

Of course you should know that Satan's worshipers will always outnumber faithful people nah! Revelation 20:8🙂

MaxInDHouse:
Your Muhammad quoted David but why can't he help his followers to put trust in the God who made that promise?

Instead Muhammad's followers are still fighting and killing themselves for power yet they have what David said about the righteous in their book.



Today when Muslims hear that Muslims in any part of the earth are killed your people will unite planning to revenge but then when Muslims are killing their own fellow Muslims you will say they are struggling for power. I wonder why you failed to see the hypocrisy in that yet you called yourself "honesttalk"

So what is the essence of their faith?

Please what exactly is the purpose of your religion if those claiming believers in your religion failed to live by the things written in their book?🙂

Psalm 37 speaks of God eliminating the wicked and establishing worldwide peace, not a tiny group avoiding war while violence still reigns on Earth.

If this prophecy were actually happening, the wicked wouldn't still be in charge, wars wouldn't continue, and abundance of peace wouldn't still be something we're waiting for after 2,000 years.

Human failings don't disprove the Bible, but it's unfair to only point fingers at Muslims while making excuses for Christians or Jehovah's Witnesses.

If Christian violence didn't destroy Christianity, then Muslim violence doesn't destroy Islam.

Either human failures disprove all religions, or they disprove none. We need to pick one standard and stick to it.

So, as a Jehovah's Witness, can you explain

1. Do JWs represent all nations as described in Isaiah 2 and Micah 4, or are the faithful always a small minority, as suggested in Revelation 20:8? Which is it, because both can't be true?

2. Do numbers matter, or not? If numbers are irrelevant, then stop using your global presence as an argument. If they do matter, how do 8 million JWs represent all nations better than Islam (1.8 billion) or Christianity (2.4 billion)?

3. Where is the Psalm 37 scenario playing out? Where is the removal of the wicked, the meek inheriting the earth, and the abundance of peace when wars are still happening and JWs make up only 0.1% of the global population?

4. How do the failed predictions of 1914, 1925, and 1975 not violate Deuteronomy 18:21-22? Where does the Bible say it's okay to excuse false prophecies with the idea of progressive understanding?

5. If infighting among Muslims disproves Islam, do the JW practices of disfellowshipping, family shunning, abuse scandals, and doctrinal changes disprove Watchtower by the same logic?

6. How does enforcing shunning and cutting off parents from their children fulfill John 13:34-35's command to be known by our love?

7. If Jesus already brought peace, why did he say he came to bring division (Matthew 10:34; Luke 12:51)? And if Christian violence didn't invalidate Christianity, why does Muslim violence invalidate Islam?

8. Why do doctrines about blood transfusions, organ transplants, and generations change if God's truth is unchanging (Malachi 3:6)?

9. How is redefining the failed visible return of Christ in 1914 as an invisible one not simply moving the goalposts?

10. The main inconsistency is this: Why are Muslims condemned for human failures, while JW failures are excused as the actions of imperfect humans or attributed to new light?

11. How do you explain three long-time Jehovah’s Witness elders convening a judicial committee on July 14, 2025, to examine alleged sins including blasphemy and responsibility for deaths (2021–2022) attributed to eight Governing Body members and that after refusing repentance these leaders were disfellowshipped?


Are we using one standard or two? Either human failure invalidates religious claims, or it doesn't. Let's apply the same rules across the board.

honesttalk21:
If this prophecy were actually happening, the wicked wouldn't still be in charge.

Obviously you are not honest hearted as you claim!

Now read it again and tell me if it's not talking about our time:


Be still before the Lord and wait patiently for him; do not fret when people succeed in their ways, when they carry out their wicked schemes. Refrain from anger and turn from wrath; do not fret—it leads only to evil. For those who are evil will be destroyed, but those who hope in the Lord will inherit the land. A little while, and the wicked will be no more; though you look for them, they will not be found. But the meek will inherit the land and enjoy peace and prosperity. ‭Psalms 37:7-11 NIV‬

The highlighted in red is specific telling us not to be carried away with the evil deeds others may be doing neither should we envy their success because God will judge them.

Now tell me how your Muslim people who are fighting and killing themselves could prove innocent while fighting and killing not just faithless people but your own brothers who are carrying the same book!🙂

honesttalk21:
Do JWs represent all nations as described in Isaiah 2 and Micah 4, or are the faithful always a small minority, as suggested in Revelation 20:8? Which is it, because both can't be true?

Just as only Adam and Eve started the planet and just as Noah and his family populated this planet the God of Abraham only need few faithful people in each nation!

honesttalk21:
Do numbers matter, or not? If numbers are irrelevant, then stop using your global presence as an argument. If they do matter, how do 8 million JWs represent all nations better than Islam (1.8 billion) or Christianity (2.4 billion)?

The number matters only when we have disciples of the Prince of Peace in every nation of the earth. The 1.8 billion you are talking about aren't faithful to your God nah!🙂

honesttalk21:
Where is the Psalm 37 scenario playing out? Where is the removal of the wicked, the meek inheriting the earth, and the abundance of peace when wars are still happening and JWs make up only 0.1% of the global population?

It's after we have gathered peace lovers from all nations throughout the earth that the end will come as angels will act in destroying disobedience people! Matthew 24:14

honesttalk21:
How do the failed predictions of 1914, 1925, and 1975 not violate Deuteronomy 18:21-22? Where does the Bible say it's okay to excuse false prophecies with the idea of progressive understanding?

Can you present one publication of JWs where a specific date is mentioned with the prophecy you are talking about?
Do Muslims talk about the end of all evil?
So do you take that as an accusation that those saying it are false prophets?🙂

honesttalk21:
If infighting among Muslims disproves Islam, do the JW practices of disfellowshipping, family shunning, abuse scandals, and doctrinal changes disprove Watchtower by the same logic?

Disfellowshipping is the punishment for anyone who turn against organizational arrangement so once a person stops believing in what Jesus commanded such a person is no longer one of us. It's unlike your Islam where you people will pick up weapons in support of sides yet claiming worshipers of the same God.

honesttalk21:
How does enforcing shunning and cutting off parents from their children fulfill John 13:34-35's command to be known by our love?

Nobody is forcing anybody, you become a member of our organization through studying and accepting what we believe so once you turn against what you agree to keep it's love for the rest to quarantine you! Romans 16:17; 2John 10-11

honesttalk21:
If Jesus already brought peace, why did he say he came to bring division (Matthew 10:34; Luke 12:51)? And if Christian violence didn't invalidate Christianity, why does Muslim violence invalidate Islam?

The peace Jesus brought only exists among those who believe in his teachings you can't expect improvement from patients who refuse to take their medications nah!🙂

honesttalk21:
Why do doctrines about blood transfusions, organ transplants, and generations change if God's truth is unchanging (Malachi 3:6)?

What do you mean by this one again?😂

honesttalk21:
How is redefining the failed visible return of Christ in 1914 as an invisible one not simply moving the goalposts?

Jesus returned in the year 1914 and that is not visible but evidence is global since everything he talked about is noticed globally from that time till today! Matthew 24:7-14

honesttalk21:
The main inconsistency is this: Why are Muslims condemned for human failures, while JW failures are excused as the actions of imperfect humans or attributed to new light?

There is no failure in late understanding of what is learned but killing fellow believers while your religion keeps greeting "SALAM" is clear failure of your God, his prophet and book!

honesttalk21:
How do you explain three long-time Jehovah’s Witness elders convening a judicial committee on July 14, 2025, to examine alleged sins including blasphemy and responsibility for deaths (2021–2022) attributed to eight Governing Body members and that after refusing repentance these leaders were disfellowshipped?

You keep going in circus.
Disfellowshiping unrepentant wrongdoers is what Jesus commanded! Matthew 18:15-17

honesttalk21:
Are we using one standard or two? Either human failure invalidates religious claims, or it doesn't. Let's apply the same rules across the board.

We are using the same standard it's you who is deceiving yourself while arguing up and down over Arab religion which has nothing beneficial other than bowing to the black stone in Mecca!🙂

MaxInDHouse:
Obviously you are not honest hearted as you claim!

Now read it again and tell me if it's not talking about our time:


Be still before the Lord and wait patiently for him; do not fret when people succeed in their ways, when they carry out their wicked schemes. Refrain from anger and turn from wrath; do not fret—it leads only to evil. For those who are evil will be destroyed, but those who hope in the Lord will inherit the land. A little while, and the wicked will be no more; though you look for them, they will not be found. But the meek will inherit the land and enjoy peace and prosperity. ‭Psalms 37:7-11 NIV‬

The highlighted in red is specific telling us not to be carried away with the evil deeds others may be doing neither should we envy their success because God will judge them.

Now tell me how your Muslim people who are fighting and killing themselves could prove innocent while fighting and killing not just faithless people but your own brothers who are carrying the same book!🙂

I've read it again. It's not really about our time it's more like timeless advice that applies to believers in any generation when they're dealing with unfairness. Let me explain why I think your understanding isn't quite right:

1. It's about personal faithfulness, Not Proving an Organization

Psalm 37:7-11 is telling individuals to:

Trust that God will make things right eventually (don't be jealous of bad people)

Don't try to get revenge yourself (don't get worked up or angry)

Be patient and wait for God to judge

It definitely doesn't say a specific religious group in the 20th or 21st century will prove they're right by not fighting.

Global peace will happen because one group is peaceful, even though wars are still happening everywhere else.

The meek inheriting the land means 8 million JWs not joining the military.

You're turning personal advice about faith into a way to justify your organization. The passage is about how people should react to injustice, not about finding the true religion.

2. A Little While has been over 3,000 Years

Verse 10: A little while, and the wicked will be no more.

Let's be realistic;this was written about 1,000 BCE. The wicked are still around in 2025 CE.
That's over 3,000 years of a little while.

JWs have been around for another 150 years since they started in the 1870s, and they've made a few predictions that didn't come true.

1914: A little while before Armageddon didn't happen

1925: A little while before important figures from the past came back didn't happen

1975: A little while before the end didn't happen

2025: Still waiting for a little while

If this passage proves JWs are right because they're waiting patiently, why have they kept setting dates and getting it wrong? That's not patient waiting that's making false prophecies (Deuteronomy 18:21-22).

3. Your Muslim fighting argument applies to JWs too.
You say how can Muslims prove they're innocent when they're fighting and killing their own brothers who believe in the same book? Well, the same could be said about JWs:
a) You fight each other just not with weapons.
1980s apostasy crisis: Lots of people were kicked out, the organization was purged, and families were torn apart.

Ongoing shunning: Parents aren't allowed to talk to their children, siblings are permanently cut off; it's like psychological warfare.

Legal battles: You aggressively sue people who criticize you, former members, and even governments.

Doctrinal wars: People who question the rules about blood transfusions, the generation teaching, or covering up abuse get kicked out.

Is that peace and prosperity (Psalm 37:11)? Or is it internal conflict that just looks different?

b) You kill with rules, not weapons:

Blood transfusion ban: How many JWs died because they refused blood, following rules that later changed (now some blood parts are allowed)?

Shunning: Psychological harm that's been talked about in mental health research; suicides that are linked to being kicked out.

Abuse cover-ups: The Australian Royal Commission found that JWs didn't report 1,006 alleged abusers which allowed them to keep hurting children.

You don't use swords, but your rules cause suffering and death to your own brothers who believe in the same book.

4. Muslims do condemn violence Among themselves.
You claim that Muslims fight each other, which proves their faith is worthless. But here's the truth:

a) Muslims are the NAIN VICTIMS of Islamic extremism:

Iraq: Hundreds of thousands of Muslims killed by ISIS (who are also Muslims)

Syria: The Assad regime + ISIS killed hundreds of thousands of Muslims

Afghanistan: The Taliban + ISIS-K kill Muslims every day

Pakistan: Terrorist attacks mostly target Muslims

b) Muslims are the MAIN ONES FIGHTING against Islamic extremism:

Iraqi and Syrian forces defeated ISIS (Muslim soldiers fighting Muslim extremists)

The Pakistani military is fighting the Taliban

Egyptian, Jordanian, and Saudi forces are fighting extremism

Islamic scholars are issuing statements condemning terrorism.

c) Most of the 1.8 billion Muslims live peacefully:

Most Muslims never get involved in violence

Internal conflicts (Sunni-Shia, political) don't represent everyday Muslim life any more than JW disfellowshipping represents all JWs.

Your claim that Muslims ignore violence within their community is clearly wrong. They're even dying to stop it.

5. The part You highlighted disproves Your Point.

You highlight Do not fret when people succeed in their ways, when they carry out their wicked schemes. Refrain from anger and turn from wrath; do not fret it leads only to evil.
This is telling believers: Don't be jealous of the success of evildoers,Don't try to get revenge yourself,Don't let your anger lead you to do bad things.
It does NOT say:Don't defend yourselves when you're attacked. Never get involved in any conflict ever. Being completely peaceful proves you're righteous.

Even the Bible shows that righteous people fought when they had to. David fought Goliath and led armies;he was chosen by God and called a man after God's heart.

Joshua fought to enter the Promised Land (God commanded him to)

The Israelites defended themselves many times (with God's approval)

Psalm 37 is about personal attitude toward injustice, not about being completely peaceful no matter what. You're reading modern JW teachings into ancient wisdom.

6. The Meek Will Inherit the Land
Verse 11: But the meek will inherit the land and enjoy peace and prosperity.

JW interpretation: We're meek because we don't fight, so we'll inherit the earth.

But this gives rise to problems:

a) Jesus quoted this in Matthew 5:5: Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.
Who are the meek?
People who are humble before God

People who don't brag about themselves

People who trust God instead of human power

NOT:

One specific religious organization

Only people who refuse to join the military

People who've never had internal conflicts

b) The inheritance is in the FUTURE, not now:

JWs don't currently inherit the land:

You're 0.1% of the world's population

You don't govern nations

You don't own the earth

Wars are still happening everywhere, even though you're peaceful

If this prophecy is being fulfilled now through JWs, where's the inheritance? Where's the peace and prosperity?

c) Christians, Jews, and Muslims ALL lay claim to being the meek.

Christians: Point to Matthew 5:5, asserting their inheritance through Christ.

Jews: Interpret Psalm 37 as applying to the faithful of Israel.

Muslims: Argue that submission to God (Islam) makes them humble/meek.

Your interpretation isn't unique, every Abrahamic faith sees itself in this passage.

7. You're not exactly "Honest Hearted" either.

You accuse me: Obviously you are not honest hearted. Yet, your own honesty is questionable:

a) You selectively apply standards:

Muslims fighting = proof their faith is false.

JWs' internal conflicts, policy-related deaths, abuse cover-ups = (conveniently ignored).

b) You gloss over failed JW prophecies:

The predictions for 1914, 1925, and 1975 didn't pan out.

Deuteronomy 18:21-22 says false prophecy disqualifies prophets.

Instead of admitting error, you reinterpret these failures as progressive revelation.

c) You claim prophecy fulfillment without actual evidence.
The meek inherit the land yet the JWs don't possess the earth.
The wicked will be no more but the wicked are still very much present.
Peace and prosperity yet wars rage globally, and JW families are torn apart by shunning.

d) You create blatant double standards:
You demand Muslims have zero internal conflict to prove Islam's truth but you excuse JW internal conflicts, failed prophecies, and harmful policies.
So, who's really being dishonest here?

8. The Core Message: Psalm 37:7-11 teaches that individual believers should trust in God's justice and not seek personal revenge. Ultimately, God will judge the wicked and vindicate the righteous. In the meantime, remain faithful despite the apparent injustice.

What it definitely does NOT teach is that a single religious organization proves its truth through organizational pacifism. That a little while somehow means 3,000+ years (and counting). That internal conflicts among believers automatically invalidate their faith.
That JWs uniquely fulfill this passage while everyone else fails miserably.
Your interpretation hinges on ignoring the JW's failed prophecies (1914, 1925, 1975),
excusing JW internal conflicts (disfellowshipping, shunning, abuse),applying harsh standards to Muslims while giving JWs a free pass, claiming fulfillment (inheriting the land, removal of the wicked) that simply hasn't happened.

If this passage proves the JWs are right, then it equally proves that the Amish are right (pacifist, internally peaceful). The Mennonites are right (conscientious objectors,communal).
The Quakers are right (historic peace testimony).

Or, more honestly the passage addresses timeless spiritual principles, not organizational validation.

I've maintained honesty throughout this discussion. You're the one selectively interpreting Scripture to validate your own group while conveniently ignoring its failed prophecies and internal failings.

That's not honesty it's textbook confirmation bias!

MaxInDHouse:
Just as only Adam and Eve started the planet and just as Noah and his family populated this planet the God of Abraham only need few faithful people in each nation!


The number matters only when we have disciples of the Prince of Peace in every nation of the earth. The 1.8 billion you are talking about aren't faithful to your God nah!🙂




It's after we have gathered peace lovers from all nations throughout the earth that the end will come as angels will act in destroying disobedience people! Matthew 24:14



Can you present one publication of JWs where a specific date is mentioned with the prophecy you are talking about?
Do Muslims talk about the end of all evil?
So do you take that as an accusation that those saying it are false prophets?🙂



Disfellowshipping is the punishment for anyone who turn against organizational arrangement so once a person stops believing in what Jesus commanded such a person is no longer one of us. It's unlike your Islam where you people will pick up weapons in support of sides yet claiming worshipers of the same God.


Nobody is forcing anybody, you become a member of our organization through studying and accepting what we believe so once you turn against what you agree to keep it's love for the rest to quarantine you! Romans 16:17; 2John 10-11


The peace Jesus brought only exists among those who believe in his teachings you can't expect improvement from patients who refuse to take their medications nah!🙂


What do you mean by this one again?😂



Jesus returned in the year 1914 and that is not visible but evidence is global since everything he talked about is noticed globally from that time till today! Matthew 24:7-14


There is no failure in late understanding of what is learned but killing fellow believers while your religion keeps greeting "SALAM" is clear failure of your God, his prophet and book!


You keep going in circus.
Disfellowshiping unrepentant wrongdoers is what Jesus commanded! Matthew 18:15-17


We are using the same standard it's you who is deceiving yourself while arguing up and down over Arab religion which has nothing beneficial other than bowing to the black stone in Mecca!🙂

1. With your answer stating only a few are faithful you obviously sidestep the all nations idea from Isaiah/Micah. Only showing wrong category.

2. Numbers only matter to JWs and they use numbers when it suits them but ignore them when it doesn't. You only make a circular, unfair standard.

3. Stating peace is coming later only shows you hoping for the future and doesn't explain your current claim of fulfillment. You don't answer the question.

4. By deflecting towards no dates were ever set you ignore the well-known significance of things like 1925 and 1975 which is a poor attempt at dodging history.

5. Shunning is different than Muslim violence and your attempts to change the subject doesn't defend shunning itself. Only showing your fallacy pointing at you do it too!

6. Attempts to make forced separation sound like love; ignores the harm it causes. You're only sugarcoating reality.

7. Deflecting to peace is only for believers goes against earlier claim of peace for everyone. Obviously you JW contradict yo?yourself.

8. Evasion by resorting to mockery instead of answering is only avoiding the issue.

9. That Jesus returned invisibly in 1914 changed the rules after the original prediction failed and is impossible to disprove.

10. JW mistakes are light getting brighter; Muslim violence is a failure is simply using two different measuring sticks. So you're clearly playing favorites.

11. By saying Jesus told us(you) to disfellowship you misinterpretsle Matthew 18 and avoid responsibility of leadership by misusing scripture.

12. Insulting Islam instead of arguing point show you uses prejudice instead of reason.

Every answer relies on dodging, twisting words, or using double standards. Not a single core argument was addressed directly.
The whole thing feels like protecting the institution, not sticking to consistent theology.

Now you are behaving like the churchians with whom you've been arguing for years on Nairaland without any proof that your religion is better!🙂

Now questions for you no quoting books rather responses should make sense to everyone to prove that your God is real.

What is the benefit of religion if members are fighting and killing fellow members like unbelievers are doing?

Do you think beheading a person for leaving your religion is better than excommunication which JWs are doing?

How can picking up weapons to fight makes sense to an unbeliever if your Allah promised to judge evildoers?🙂

honesttalk21:
I've read it again. It's not really about our time it's more like timeless advice that applies to believers in any generation when they're dealing with unfairness. Let me explain why I think your understanding isn't quite right:

1. It's about personal faithfulness, Not Proving an Organization

Psalm 37:7-11 is telling individuals to:

Trust that God will make things right eventually (don't be jealous of bad people)

Don't try to get revenge yourself (don't get worked up or angry)

Be patient and wait for God to judge

It definitely doesn't say a specific religious group in the 20th or 21st century will prove they're right by not fighting.

Global peace will happen because one group is peaceful, even though wars are still happening everywhere else.

The meek inheriting the land means 8 million JWs not joining the military.

You're turning personal advice about faith into a way to justify your organization. The passage is about how people should react to injustice, not about finding the true religion.

2. A Little While has been over 3,000 Years

Verse 10: A little while, and the wicked will be no more.

Let's be realistic;this was written about 1,000 BCE. The wicked are still around in 2025 CE.
That's over 3,000 years of a little while.

JWs have been around for another 150 years since they started in the 1870s, and they've made a few predictions that didn't come true.

1914: A little while before Armageddon didn't happen

1925: A little while before important figures from the past came back didn't happen

1975: A little while before the end didn't happen

2025: Still waiting for a little while

If this passage proves JWs are right because they're waiting patiently, why have they kept setting dates and getting it wrong? That's not patient waiting that's making false prophecies (Deuteronomy 18:21-22).

3. Your Muslim fighting argument applies to JWs too.
You say how can Muslims prove they're innocent when they're fighting and killing their own brothers who believe in the same book? Well, the same could be said about JWs:
a) You fight each other just not with weapons.
1980s apostasy crisis: Lots of people were kicked out, the organization was purged, and families were torn apart.

Ongoing shunning: Parents aren't allowed to talk to their children, siblings are permanently cut off; it's like psychological warfare.

Legal battles: You aggressively sue people who criticize you, former members, and even governments.

Doctrinal wars: People who question the rules about blood transfusions, the generation teaching, or covering up abuse get kicked out.

Is that peace and prosperity (Psalm 37:11)? Or is it internal conflict that just looks different?

b) You kill with rules, not weapons:

Blood transfusion ban: How many JWs died because they refused blood, following rules that later changed (now some blood parts are allowed)?

Shunning: Psychological harm that's been talked about in mental health research; suicides that are linked to being kicked out.

Abuse cover-ups: The Australian Royal Commission found that JWs didn't report 1,006 alleged abusers which allowed them to keep hurting children.

You don't use swords, but your rules cause suffering and death to your own brothers who believe in the same book.

4. Muslims do condemn violence Among themselves.
You claim that Muslims fight each other, which proves their faith is worthless. But here's the truth:

a) Muslims are the NAIN VICTIMS of Islamic extremism:

Iraq: Hundreds of thousands of Muslims killed by ISIS (who are also Muslims)

Syria: The Assad regime + ISIS killed hundreds of thousands of Muslims

Afghanistan: The Taliban + ISIS-K kill Muslims every day

Pakistan: Terrorist attacks mostly target Muslims

b) Muslims are the MAIN ONES FIGHTING against Islamic extremism:

Iraqi and Syrian forces defeated ISIS (Muslim soldiers fighting Muslim extremists)

The Pakistani military is fighting the Taliban

Egyptian, Jordanian, and Saudi forces are fighting extremism

Islamic scholars are issuing statements condemning terrorism.

c) Most of the 1.8 billion Muslims live peacefully:

Most Muslims never get involved in violence

Internal conflicts (Sunni-Shia, political) don't represent everyday Muslim life any more than JW disfellowshipping represents all JWs.

Your claim that Muslims ignore violence within their community is clearly wrong. They're even dying to stop it.

5. The part You highlighted disproves Your Point.

You highlight Do not fret when people succeed in their ways, when they carry out their wicked schemes. Refrain from anger and turn from wrath; do not fret it leads only to evil.
This is telling believers: Don't be jealous of the success of evildoers,Don't try to get revenge yourself,Don't let your anger lead you to do bad things.
It does NOT say:Don't defend yourselves when you're attacked. Never get involved in any conflict ever. Being completely peaceful proves you're righteous.

Even the Bible shows that righteous people fought when they had to. David fought Goliath and led armies;he was chosen by God and called a man after God's heart.

Joshua fought to enter the Promised Land (God commanded him to)

The Israelites defended themselves many times (with God's approval)

Psalm 37 is about personal attitude toward injustice, not about being completely peaceful no matter what. You're reading modern JW teachings into ancient wisdom.

6. The Meek Will Inherit the Land
Verse 11: But the meek will inherit the land and enjoy peace and prosperity.

JW interpretation: We're meek because we don't fight, so we'll inherit the earth.

But this gives rise to problems:

a) Jesus quoted this in Matthew 5:5: Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.
Who are the meek?
People who are humble before God

People who don't brag about themselves

People who trust God instead of human power

NOT:

One specific religious organization

Only people who refuse to join the military

People who've never had internal conflicts

b) The inheritance is in the FUTURE, not now:

JWs don't currently inherit the land:

You're 0.1% of the world's population

You don't govern nations

You don't own the earth

Wars are still happening everywhere, even though you're peaceful

If this prophecy is being fulfilled now through JWs, where's the inheritance? Where's the peace and prosperity?

c) Christians, Jews, and Muslims ALL lay claim to being the meek.

Christians: Point to Matthew 5:5, asserting their inheritance through Christ.

Jews: Interpret Psalm 37 as applying to the faithful of Israel.

Muslims: Argue that submission to God (Islam) makes them humble/meek.

Your interpretation isn't unique, every Abrahamic faith sees itself in this passage.

7. You're not exactly "Honest Hearted" either.

You accuse me: Obviously you are not honest hearted. Yet, your own honesty is questionable:

a) You selectively apply standards:

Muslims fighting = proof their faith is false.

JWs' internal conflicts, policy-related deaths, abuse cover-ups = (conveniently ignored).

b) You gloss over failed JW prophecies:

The predictions for 1914, 1925, and 1975 didn't pan out.

Deuteronomy 18:21-22 says false prophecy disqualifies prophets.

Instead of admitting error, you reinterpret these failures as progressive revelation.

c) You claim prophecy fulfillment without actual evidence.
The meek inherit the land yet the JWs don't possess the earth.
The wicked will be no more but the wicked are still very much present.
Peace and prosperity yet wars rage globally, and JW families are torn apart by shunning.

d) You create blatant double standards:
You demand Muslims have zero internal conflict to prove Islam's truth but you excuse JW internal conflicts, failed prophecies, and harmful policies.
So, who's really being dishonest here?

8. The Core Message: Psalm 37:7-11 teaches that individual believers should trust in God's justice and not seek personal revenge. Ultimately, God will judge the wicked and vindicate the righteous. In the meantime, remain faithful despite the apparent injustice.

What it definitely does NOT teach is that a single religious organization proves its truth through organizational pacifism. That a little while somehow means 3,000+ years (and counting). That internal conflicts among believers automatically invalidate their faith.
That JWs uniquely fulfill this passage while everyone else fails miserably.
Your interpretation hinges on ignoring the JW's failed prophecies (1914, 1925, 1975),
excusing JW internal conflicts (disfellowshipping, shunning, abuse),applying harsh standards to Muslims while giving JWs a free pass, claiming fulfillment (inheriting the land, removal of the wicked) that simply hasn't happened.

If this passage proves the JWs are right, then it equally proves that the Amish are right (pacifist, internally peaceful). The Mennonites are right (conscientious objectors,communal).
The Quakers are right (historic peace testimony).

Or, more honestly the passage addresses timeless spiritual principles, not organizational validation.

I've maintained honesty throughout this discussion. You're the one selectively interpreting Scripture to validate your own group while conveniently ignoring its failed prophecies and internal failings.

That's not honesty it's textbook confirmation bias!

MaxInDHouse:
Now you are behaving like the churchians with whom you've been arguing for years on Nairaland without any proof that your religion is better!🙂

Now questions for you no quoting books rather responses should make sense to everyone to prove that your God is real.

What is the benefit of religion if members are fighting and killing fellow members like unbelievers are doing?

Do you think beheading a person for leaving your religion is better than excommunication which JWs are doing?

How can picking up weapons to fight makes sense to an unbeliever if your Allah promised to judge evildoers?🙂

You've skillfully dodged all 11 questions I posed. Let's simplify this.
I asked about YOUR failed prophecies, but you steered the conversation toward Islam. That's not a defense; it's an admission that you lack a suitable response.

Let's address your questions first, then you'll answer mine.

Q1: How can a religion be considered beneficial if its followers engage in violence?

Catholics and Protestants engaged in centuries of conflict. Did this invalidate Christianity? You would likely argue no. Apply the same reasoning to Islam. Either violence discredits all religions, or it discredits none. Choose one.

Q2: Is beheading a more acceptable practice than shunning (excommunication)?

Both are destructive. Beheading represents physical cruelty, while shunning leads to suicide, breaks families apart, and traumatizes children. Your own doctrine compels parents to reject children for questioning the significance of 1914. John 13:34-35 states that Christ's followers are known by their love. Does forcing mothers to shun their daughters demonstrate love?

Q3: Why engage in conflict if Allah will ultimately judge wrongdoers?

Why practice shunning if Jehovah will ultimately judge wrongdoers? The question and the logic are identical. You impose social penalties, while they impose legal penalties. Both claim divine authorization. I condemn ISIS. Do you condemn the practice of family shunning?

Now, answer THIS:

Deuteronomy 18:21-22 states: If a prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the prediction does not come to pass, then Jehovah did not speak it.

Your publications have predicted/implied:

- The resurrection of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in 1925.

- The end of 6,000 years in 1975.

- That the generation of 1914 would not pass away (revised more than five times).

A simple yes or no will suffice. 0Were these false prophecies?

If you claim it's progressive understanding, then Muslims are entitled to the same justification for their evolving beliefs.

If you believe false prophecies invalidate religions, then your religion is invalidated.

Which is it?

You assert that I have 'no proof my religion is superior. I never made that claim. My assertion is that YOUR religion makes claims it cannot support:

- Does 0.1% of humanity equate to all nations?

- Do failed predictions qualify someone as God's prophet?

- Does family shunning exemplify Christian love?

Either answer the 11 questions or concede your inability to do so. Redirecting attention to Islam will not shield you from your own inconsistencies.

Stop deflecting. Answer this one question: How do your failed prophecies not violate Deuteronomy 18:21-22? Yes or no.