₦airaland Forum

honesttalk21:
Your assertion that Muhammad pbuh was converted by Christians or just a Christian is totally untrue and doesn't hold water historically. There's no real evidence suggesting he ever practiced Christianity or went through any kind of conversion from it. Islamic texts portray him as a monotheist in a society full of polytheism, not as someone who used to be Christian and then started a new religion. Saying that accepting the virgin birth and Jesus as a prophet makes him a Christian is a huge stretch. By that logic, anyone who respects Jesus would automatically be a Christian which makes the definition so broad it loses all meaning. Christianity has some core, non-negotiable beliefs which are Christ's divinity, his sacrifice for sins, and his resurrection. Islam has rejected all three of these from the very beginning. Muhammad pbuh didn't break away from Christianity because he was never part of it to begin with. If just sharing a few beliefs makes religions the same, then Jehovah's Witnesses and Catholics would be the same religion.

Your claim about pre-Islamic Arabian writings mentioning Abraham falls apart when you bring up the Epic of Gilgamesh, which is from Mesopotamia, not Arabia, and existed centuries before Abraham. This shows a basic misunderstanding between Sumerian (Iraqi) and Arabian cultures. If you have tons"of pre-Islamic Arabian texts, you should name them specifically instead of vaguely pointing to stuff from completely different civilizations.

The idea that Muhammad wasn't persecuted by Christians is irrelevant when it comes to classifying religions. Mormons weren't universally persecuted by Christians either, but they're still considered a distinct religion. Persecution doesn't define theological boundaries doctrine does. Islam's clear rejection of Christianity's core beliefs makes it a separate religion, regardless of whether Christians helped early Muslims or whether Muhammad pbuh ever encountered Christian teachings.

You don't understand. Jesus was a Jew. Jews believed he was a nonentity, a vagabond. Anybody in the seventh century of Mohammed that believed Jesus was born of a virgin and was God's prophet was a Christian at one point. I hope you get it now. If you believe Mohammed is the last Prophet, how were you not a Muslim at one point? How were you not converted by Muslims?
Mesopotamia is Iraq and those are the ancestors of Arabs. Sumerians are Arab ancestors. There are other Arab ancestors and there are no Arab ancestors that have tradition of Abraham.

Mormons will not argue like you are doing now that their founder was not a Christian

Kobojunkie:
My post was instead meant to correct a lot of the misinformation contained in your post there. You keep twisting the facts to make even more non-facts, I have noticed. 🥱🥱🥱

Oh in responding to me you need to add quotes not made by me? Really now! How correctly informed are you and the additional statements outside mine you added?

Your own references contradict your assertion. Old Arabic can be traced back to the 1st millennium BCE, which aligns it with the earliest Hebrew inscriptions such as the Gezer Calendar around 950 BCE and Aramaic around 900 BCE. In terms of written records, these languages appeared within a few centuries of one another. Arabic is not one of the most recent Semitic languages; it has a rich history spanning over 3,000 years. You seem to be confusing the later standardization of Arabic with its age as a language.

The Bahira/monk story comes from Islamic writings created more than a century after Muhammad pbuh's death and is not based on contemporary historical evidence. Importantly, Arians not Aryans did affirm beliefs in the crucifixion, resurrection, and atonement. Their disagreements were about Christ's nature (homoousios vs. homoiousios), not the key events of salvation. You are mixing up Arianism with Gnosticism. There is no credible evidence to suggest that Muhammad pbuh had sustained interactions with any particular Christian group.

This conspiracy theory that Christianity was created and funded by Romans is at somewhat at odds with historical facts. For over 250 years, Christianity faced persecution from Rome under leaders like Nero and Diocletian. The letters of Paul, written in the 50s CE, show that Christianity existed independently before Rome took an interest, especially before the destruction of the Temple in 70 CE. Early Christians were often executed rather than funded. Constantine’s conversion in 312 CE occurred three centuries after Jesus’ time. This assertion is dismissed by serious historians, both secular and religious.

Your reasoning suggests that cultures like Homeric Greece, Vedic India, and pre-literate Norse societies had no history worth documenting, which misinterprets how oral cultures maintain knowledge. External sources, such as Sozomen, Jerome, and Byzantine chronicles, have recorded pre-Islamic Arab traditions and their connection to Ishmael. Expecting written records from oral societies and then claiming their absence means there was no tradition is flawed reasoning.

Kobojunkie:
1. Compared to many of the Semitic languages, Tthe arabic language is among the most recent. The Nabatean language is considered the precursor to the Arabic language. 🥱🥱


2. This is wrong! The aryan sect to which the monk from whom Mohammed is said to have gotten his ideas regarding Christianity did not hold those ideas of divinity, crucifixion, resurrection, and atonement. The gnostics and other sects that were classified by Rome as heretical sects held ideas different from what is mainstream Christianity today. 🥱🥱

3. Christianity was never a part of Judaism. Judaism was a religion that was created and controlled by the descendants of Jacob for the purpose of administering access to the God of Israel. Christianity, on the other hand, was created and bankrolled by the Romans, who, as they had previously done with the religion of the Greeks, sought to gain control over the Israelites' only movement that had begun in Judea before Rome eventually killed/exiled much of the Jewish population, after the destruction of the Temple.

Islam came in trading stories; it claims to be linked to Christianity, made failed attempts to link itself to the Israelites and their prophets, in much the same way that the Christians before it did. So, in a lot of ways, Islam could be seen as just another sect under Christianity.

4. Even after the language took written form, there was no attempt by the people to document their so-called oral traditions. That is a big issue, as it could be construed that the people did not have a history, of the kind you claim for them, worth documenting. I am simply going off your claims here.🥱🥱

Your statement that Islam could be seen as just another sect under Christianity is fundamentally wrong. It rejects the core theological beliefs of Christianity, establishing it as a distinct religion rather than merely a sect.

honesttalk21:
✓ Your assertion that Muhammad pbuh was converted by Christians or just a Christian is totally untrue and doesn't hold water historically. There's no real evidence suggesting he ever practiced Christianity or went through any kind of conversion from it. Islamic texts portray him as a monotheist in a society full of polytheism, not as someone who used to be Christian and then started a new religion.
✓ Saying that accepting the virgin birth and Jesus as a prophet makes him a Christian is a huge stretch. By that logic, anyone who respects Jesus would automatically be a Christian which makes the definition so broad it loses all meaning. Christianity has some core, non-negotiable beliefs which are Christ's divinity, his sacrifice for sins, and his resurrection.
✓ Islam has rejected all three of these from the very beginning. Muhammad pbuh didn't break away from Christianity because he was never part of it to begin with. If just sharing a few beliefs makes religions the same, then Jehovah's Witnesses and Catholics would be the same religion.
✓ Your claim about pre-Islamic Arabian writings mentioning Abraham falls apart when you bring up the Epic of Gilgamesh, which is from Mesopotamia, not Arabia, and existed centuries before Abraham. This shows a basic misunderstanding between Sumerian (Iraqi) and Arabian cultures. If you have tons"of pre-Islamic Arabian texts, you should name them specifically instead of vaguely pointing to stuff from completely different civilizations.
✓ The idea that Muhammad wasn't persecuted by Christians is irrelevant when it comes to classifying religions. Mormons weren't universally persecuted by Christians either, but they're still considered a distinct religion. Persecution doesn't define theological boundaries doctrine does. Islam's clear rejection of Christianity's core beliefs makes it a separate religion, regardless of whether Christians helped early Muslims or whether Muhammad pbuh ever encountered Christian teachings.

1. The Quran and other Islamic Hadiths only report that Mohammed proclaimed he only worshipped one god but his actions reveal otherwise. For instance, the first Caliph, in one of the Hadiths is reported to have insisted that he only touched and kissed the black stone, a relic and tradition dating back before Pre-Islamic period because he saw Mohammed do same. He pondered why such poly theistic relics would be repacked and rebranded as monotheistic by a man who claimed he only worshipped one Allah. 🥱

2. Oh, Indeed! The definition of what it means to be Christian is indeed broad. Even the Mormons Satanists, and Jehovah's witnesses are Christians, and isn't all that far off. 🥱🥱

3. This is to be debated. Islam accepts the Virgin birth, accepts that someone was crucified...only that Allah claims the one who was crucified was not Jesus Christ. As for the resurrection, well, in its place, Allah instead took Jesus Christ " up to Paradise" instead of a resurrection. That there sounds along the lines of the ideas traded by the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses and co. Am I wrong? 🥱🥱🥱

4. Not trying to hold brief for the other here but if you have in fact ever read the Epic of Gilgamesh, you would note immediately that it was not meant in any way as a historical record for any people who ever existed. It is more of less a fable told by the Mesopotamians, not meant to be considered literal accounts or records of any events or persons. 🥱

5. Mormornism is not classified as a distinct religion from Christianity. It gets its roots from the religion of Christianity; it isn't a traditional Christian but that doesn't make it any less Christian than all other movements/denominations like it out there in the Christian world. Basically, so long as it's roots can be traced back to the Roman Catholic roots of Christianity, it is Christian. 🥱🥱

honesttalk21:
✓ Your statement that Islam could be seen as just another sect under Christianity is fundamentally wrong. It rejects the core theological beliefs of Christianity, establishing it as a distinct religion rather than merely a sect.

There are 1000s of Christian denominations out there even today that reject those same core Christian doctrines. 🥱🥱

Several historical and early Christian-related sects have rejected the physical death, crucifixion, or bodily resurrection of Jesus, often viewing his earthly existence as phantom-like (Docetism) or spiritual. Key groups included Gnostics, Basilides, Corinthians, and those holding the swoon hypothesis or substitution hypothesis, which suggests another died in his place.

See there that even the claim that another died in the place of Jesus Christ is not unique to Islam. There were so many Christian groups that believed such ideas before Islam. Some were ostracized by the Roman church that prevailed but that don't change the fact that they are of Christian roots. 🥱🥱

lawani:
You don't understand. Jesus was a Jew. Jews believed he was a nonentity, a vagabond. Anybody in the seventh century of Mohammed that believed Jesus was born of a virgin and was God's prophet was a Christian at one point. I hope you get it now. If you believe Mohammed is the last Prophet, how were you not a Muslim at one point? How were you not converted by Muslims?
Mesopotamia is Iraq and those are the ancestors of Arabs. Sumerians are Arab ancestors. There are other Arab ancestors and there are no Arab ancestors that have tradition of Abraham.

Mormons will not argue like you are doing now that their founder was not a Christian

Are you forcing your view?

If believing in the virgin birth of Jesus and viewing him as a prophet qualifies someone as Christian then you make an unreasonable argument. By that reasoning, Muslims who honor Jesus would also be considered Christians, even though they reject key Christian beliefs like the Trinity, the divinity of Christ, his sacrificial death, and resurrection which are core tenets of Christianity.

Muhammad pbuh did not support these beliefs or engage in Christian practices. You can't separate from something you were never a part of. Your claim that Sumerians are ancestors of Arabs is historically inaccurate. The Sumerians, who lived in what is now Iraq from 3500 to 1900 BCE, spoke a unique language and were ethnically different from Arabs, who are Semitic people from the Arabian Peninsula. Your comparison to Mormons reinforces my argument. Joseph Smith was a Christian before he established Mormonism, representing a true breakaway. In contrast, Muhammad pbuh was never a Christian; he had a different origin.

There is no historical evidence that Muhammad pbuh practiced or converted from Christianity. Save yourself this pointless banter and bring proof he was. Influence does not equate to identity.

Kobojunkie:
1. The Quran and other Islamic Hadiths only report that Mohammed proclaimed he only worshipped one god but his actions reveal otherwise. For instance, the first Caliph, in one of the Hadiths is reported to have insisted that he only touched and kissed the black stone, a relic and tradition dating back before Pre-Islamic period because he saw Mohammed do same. He pondered why such poly theistic relics would be repacked and rebranded as monotheistic by a man who claimed he only worshipped one Allah. 🥱

2. Oh, Indeed! The definition of what it means to be Christian is indeed broad. Even the Mormons Satanists, and Jehovah's witnesses are Christians, and isn't all that far off. 🥱🥱

3. This is to be debated. Islam accepts the Virgin birth, accepts that someone was crucified...only that Allah claims the one who was crucified was not Jesus Christ. As for the resurrection, well, in its place, Allah instead took Jesus Christ " up to Paradise" instead of a resurrection. That there sounds along the lines of the ideas traded by the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses and co. Am I wrong? 🥱🥱🥱

4. Not trying to hold brief for the other here but if you have in fact ever read the Epic of Gilgamesh, you would note immediately that it was not meant in any way as a historical record for any people who ever existed. It is more of less a fable told by the Mesopotamians, not meant to be considered literal accounts or records of any events or persons. 🥱

5. Mormornism is not classified as a distinct religion from Christianity. It gets its roots from the religion of Christianity; it isn't a traditional Christian but that doesn't make it any less Christian than all other movements/denominations like it out there in the Christian world. Basically, so long as it's roots can be traced back to the Roman Catholic roots of Christianity, it is Christian. 🥱🥱

Kobojunkie:
There are 1000s of Christian denominations out there even today that reject those same core Christian doctrines. 🥱🥱
See there that even the claim that another died in the place of Jesus Christ is not unique to Islam. There were so many Christian groups that believed such ideas before Islam. Some were ostracized by the Roman church that prevailed but that don't change the fact that they are of Christian roots. 🥱🥱

Your argument is wrong because it merges fundamental categories and misrepresents historical facts. The assertion that thousands of Christian denominations reject core doctrines is incorrect. Groups that deny the divinity, crucifixion, and resurrection of Christ are not recognized as Christian by traditional Christianity or academic standards. Internal disagreements within Christianity do not equate to a rejection of its essential beliefs.

Citing obscure pre-Islamic Christian sects does not make Islam a branch of Christianity. Islam clearly denies the divinity of Jesus, his crucifixion, and resurrection, which fundamentally separates it from Christianity, regardless of any earlier similar beliefs.

The argument regarding the Black Stone confuses respect for an object with worship. Islam explicitly prohibits the worship of objects; the Black Stone has no divine status, power, or role as an intercessor. The intention behind worship is what matters this is the same distinction Christians make when discussing relics.

Redefining Christian to include Mormons, Satanists, or anyone with loose connections to Roman or biblical traditions leads to definitional confusion. Scholars categorize Mormonism as a new religious movement, not as part of historic Christianity, and Satanism is not Christian in any way.

While Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons may have unorthodox beliefs, they still focus their theology on Christ, which is not the case with Islam. This distinction is crucial. Sharing figures does not imply sharing a religion. Rejecting the fundamental claims of Christianity places a movement outside of it. Confusing ancestry with identity weakens your argument rather than supporting it.

honesttalk21:
Are you forcing your view?

If believing in the virgin birth of Jesus and viewing him as a prophet qualifies someone as Christian then you make an unreasonable argument. By that reasoning, Muslims who honor Jesus would also be considered Christians, even though they reject key Christian beliefs like the Trinity, the divinity of Christ, his sacrificial death, and resurrection which are core tenets of Christianity.

Muhammad pbuh did not support these beliefs or engage in Christian practices. You can't separate from something you were never a part of. Your claim that Sumerians are ancestors of Arabs is historically inaccurate. The Sumerians, who lived in what is now Iraq from 3500 to 1900 BCE, spoke a unique language and were ethnically different from Arabs, who are Semitic people from the Arabian Peninsula. Your comparison to Mormons reinforces my argument. Joseph Smith was a Christian before he established Mormonism, representing a true breakaway. In contrast, Muhammad pbuh was never a Christian; he had a different origin.

There is no historical evidence that Muhammad pbuh practiced or converted from Christianity. Save yourself this pointless banter and bring proof he was. Influence does not equate to identity.

Muslims Revere Jesus because their founder was a Christian at one point. That is where they got it from. You can only get reports about Jesus from Jews or Christians when Mohammed was born. Going by his beliefs, Mohammed listened to Christians and was convinced by them.

Then the ancestors of Arabs did not speak Arabic which is a new language. The ancestors of Jews did not speak Hebrew. The first prominent Semitic language came after the rise of Assyria. As at only 1000 years ago, Sumerian was still in use in Iraq. It later was used only by priests and then it passed out of use. Someone like Moses spoke Kemitic Egyptian and not Hebrew. The difference in language therefore does not mean Sumerians are not Arab ancestors. Arabic is a new language

lawani:
Muslims Revere Jesus because their founder was a Christian at one point. That is where they got it from. You can only get reports about Jesus from Jews or Christians when Mohammed was born. Going by his beliefs, Mohammed listened to Christians and was convinced by them.

Then the ancestors of Arabs did not speak Arabic which is a new language. The ancestors of Jews did not speak Hebrew. The first prominent Semitic language came after the rise of Assyria. As at only 1000 years ago, Sumerian was still in use in Iraq. It later was used only by priests and then it passed out of use. Someone like Moses spoke Kemitic Egyptian and not Hebrew. The difference in language therefore does not mean Sumerians are not Arab ancestors. Arabic is a new language

Reference or admit you are just carelessly speaking a troubled wish.

honesttalk21:
✓ Your own references contradict your assertion. Old Arabic can be traced back to the 1st millennium BCE, which aligns it with the earliest Hebrew inscriptions such as the Gezer Calendar around 950 BCE and Aramaic around 900 BCE. In terms of written records, these languages appeared within a few centuries of one another. Arabic is not one of the most recent Semitic languages; it has a rich history spanning over 3,000 years. You seem to be confusing the later standardization of Arabic with its age as a language.
✓ The Bahira/monk story comes from Islamic writings created more than a century after Muhammad pbuh's death and is not based on contemporary historical evidence.
✓ Importantly, Arians not Aryans did affirm beliefs in the crucifixion, resurrection, and atonement. Their disagreements were about Christ's nature (homoousios vs. homoiousios), not the key events of salvation. You are mixing up Arianism with Gnosticism. There is no credible evidence to suggest that Muhammad pbuh had sustained interactions with any particular Christian group.
✓ This conspiracy theory that Christianity was created and funded by Romans is at somewhat at odds with historical facts. For over 250 years, Christianity faced persecution from Rome under leaders like Nero and Diocletian. The letters of Paul, written in the 50s CE, show that Christianity existed independently before Rome took an interest, especially before the destruction of the Temple in 70 CE. Early Christians were often executed rather than funded. Constantine’s conversion in 312 CE occurred three centuries after Jesus’ time. This assertion is dismissed by serious historians, both secular and religious.
✓ Your reasoning suggests that cultures like Homeric Greece, Vedic India, and pre-literate Norse societies had no history worth documenting, which misinterprets how oral cultures maintain knowledge. External sources, such as Sozomen, Jerome, and Byzantine chronicles, have recorded pre-Islamic Arab traditions and their connection to Ishmael. Expecting written records from oral societies and then claiming their absence means there was no tradition is flawed reasoning.

1. You are obviously not paying attention. I said the Nabatean scrots of the Nabatean language -- primarily of Aramaic coding -- evolved to Arabic scripts.
https://www.reddit.com/r/learn_arabic/comments/1j46k5v/the_origins_of_the_arabic_script_from_nabataean/

2. All of the Hadiths were written and compiled beginning 150 - 200 years after the death of Mohammed. So, which are you intending for us to consider corrupt in this case? 🤔

3. Mohammed didn't need to have a documented sustained interactions with particular Christian groups though for there to exist a connection between his idea and those of Christians he may have interacted with. The same way he did not need to have any sustained interactions with Grecians for him to tell the story of the two horned one, a myth that connects back to Alexander the great. What is clear from the Quran is that Mohammed took bits and pieces from various beliefs that existed around his time.🤔🤔

He may not have taken the ideas regarding the crucifixion from the Arian (thanks for the correction by the way) what we do know is that his insistence on Jesus Christ not co-eternal as claimed in the Injeel by Jesus Christ Himself, may have come from that interaction. 🤔

Arianism arose in the early 4th century, when Arius began teaching that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, was not co-eternal with the Father and was instead the first and highest of all created beings. Arius was attempting to preserve a strict form of monotheism by subordinating the Son to the Father, denying the full deity of the Son. Arius famously stated, "There was a time when the Son was not," implying that the Son had a beginning and was not eternal like the Father.

This in similar way that his idea to claim that the encounter he had in the cave was with an angel called Jibril linked to the Scriptures which we know existed at his time. 🤔

4. I am afraid it is, in fact, what history reveals. Jesus Christ of Israel and His disciples were Jews and Jews were persecuted by Rome during the first century BC during which a third of the population were killed, and a huge potion of those left in Judea afterwards were then exiled from Judea and much of the Roman empire. (Many were sold into slavery and dispersed to faraway lands; only a small number of them were allowed to remain in Judea to serve the Roman government, right before the region was renamed Syria Palestine out of spite for the Jews.) After that point onwards, we read of Christianity, a movement that was largely led by non-Jews/non-Israelites and centered around Rome. 🤔

Everything you claim to know of the religion is as operated under the lead of Roman citizens who were all non-Israelites and so has nothing to do with the Abrahamic covenant which was instead given to descendants of Isaac and then Jacob. 🤔🤔

5. We are talking in context of Scripture here. Remember? 🤔

honesttalk21:
Reference or admit you are just carelessly speaking a troubled wish.

Arabic was not in use over 2500 years ago

Kobojunkie:
1. You are obviously not paying attention. I said the Nabatean scrots of the Nabatean language -- primarily of Aramaic coding -- evolved to Arabic scripts.
https://www.reddit.com/r/learn_arabic/comments/1j46k5v/the_origins_of_the_arabic_script_from_nabataean/

2. All of the Hadiths were written and compiled beginning 150 - 200 years after the death of Mohammed. So, which are you intending for us to consider corrupt in this case? 🤔

3. Mohammed didn't need to have a documented sustained interactions with particular Christian groups though for there to exist a connection between his idea and those of Christians he may have interacted with. The same way he did not need to have any sustained interactions with Grecians for him to tell the story of the two horned one, a myth that connects back to Alexander the great. What is clear from the Quran is that Mohammed took bits and pieces from various beliefs that existed around his time.🤔🤔

He may not have taken the ideas regarding the crucifixion from the Arian (thanks for the correction by the way) what we do know is that his insistence on Jesus Christ not co-eternal as claimed in the Injeel by Jesus Christ Himself, may have come from that interaction. 🤔
This in similar way that his idea to claim that the encounter he had in the cave was with an angel called Jibril linked to the Scriptures which we know existed at his time. 🤔

4. I am afraid it is, in fact, what history reveals. Jesus Christ of Israel and His disciples were Jews and Jews were persecuted by Rome during the first century BC during which a third of the population were killed, and a huge potion of those left in Judea afterwards were then exiled from Judea and much of the Roman empire. (Many were sold into slavery and dispersed to faraway lands; only a small number of them were allowed to remain in Judea to serve the Roman government, right before the region was renamed Syria Palestine out of spite for the Jews.) After that point onwards, we read of Christianity, a movement that was largely led by non-Jews/non-Israelites and centered around Rome. 🤔

Everything you claim to know of the religion is as operated under the lead of Roman citizens who were all non-Israelites and so has nothing to do with the Abrahamic covenant which was instead given to descendants of Isaac and then Jacob. 🤔🤔

5. We are talking in context of Scripture here. Remember? 🤔

You're mixing up script, language, and theology, which is why your argument doesn't hold. It's true that Arabic script originated from Nabataean Aramaic, but that's about writing systems, not the origins of the language itself. The evolution of a script doesn't mean that Arabic is a new language, just as the Latin script doesn't make English a Latin language. The chronology of hadith doesn't support your argument either. Regardless of one's views on hadith transmission, Islamic teachings are based on the Qur'an, which explicitly denies the divinity and crucifixion of Jesus. These beliefs contradict all Christian doctrines, rather than borrowing from them. Saying there are bits and pieces is merely speculation, not evidence. Similarities don't prove one religion copied another; if they did, you could argue that Christianity borrowed from Judaism and Judaism from Mesopotamian traditions, which would reduce all religions to mere plagiarism. The comparison between Alexander and Dhul-Qarnayn fails for the same reason. Shared themes do not imply that one is dependent on the other. Ancient cultures shared stories orally without necessarily borrowing authorship. Lastly, the Islamic view of Jesus not being co-eternal does not stem from Arianism; it contradicts both Nicene and Arian Christianity. Islam is not just a variation of Christianity; it fundamentally rejects its core beliefs.

honesttalk21:
Reference or admit you are just carelessly speaking a troubled wish.

Sumerian stopped being a living language 4000 years ago but it was in use as a liturgical language for a further 2000 years

lawani:
Arabic was not in use over 2500 years ago

Yet your image says it's one of the oldest continuosly spoken languages?

honesttalk21:
Reference or admit you are just carelessly speaking a troubled wish.

Moses spoke Kemitic Egyptian the one in which the book of the dead is written

lawani:
Moses spoke Kemitic Egyptian the one in which the book of the dead is written

All the screenshots you shared talk about ancient Sumerian and the languages of Moses, but they don't demonstrate that Muhammad followed Christianity or that Islam originated from it. There is no evidence presented to support this claim.

Note my pointing out reference to Arabic as one of the oldest continuously spoken languages. Quite opposite of your new language claims.

honesttalk21:
➜The chronology of hadith doesn't support your argument either.
➜ Regardless of one's views on hadith transmission, Islamic teachings are based on the Qur'an, which explicitly denies the divinity and crucifixion of Jesus.
➜ These beliefs contradict all Christian doctrines, rather than borrowing from them. Saying there are bits and pieces is merely speculation, not evidence. Similarities don't prove one religion copied another; if they did, you could argue that Christianity borrowed from Judaism and Judaism from Mesopotamian traditions, which would reduce all religions to mere plagiarism.
➜ The comparison between Alexander and Dhul-Qarnayn fails for the same reason. Shared themes do not imply that one is dependent on the other. Ancient cultures shared stories orally without necessarily borrowing authorship.
➜ Lastly, the Islamic view of Jesus not being co-eternal does not stem from Arianism; it contradicts both Nicene and Arian Christianity. Islam is not just a variation of Christianity; it fundamentally rejects its core beliefs.

1. What chronology of the Hadiths? You claimed information contained in at least one of the Hadiths was not valid because the Hadith was supposedly compiled many, many decades after the death of Mohammed, so I asked, based on the fact that all the Hadiths were compiled almost 150-200 years after the fact, you should probably let us know before hand which Hadiths we should throw out as unauthorized/corrupted. 🥱🥱

2. Is the Quran, therefore, the only valid Islamic text there is? 🥱🥱

Also, how can it be said that the Quran denies the divinity of Jesus in the Quran if the Quran declares he was born of a virgin woman(described as a pure woman Quran 66:12), and instead of dying, was lifted by Allah, directly into Allah's Paradise(Quran 3 vs 55 & Quran 4 vs157-158 )... an opportunity given to no other man(not even Mohammed, the divine one of Allah)? Jesus of the Quran is said to have been born pure and without a father (Quran 19 vs 19-21 & Quran 3 vs 47). So, where do you get this notion that the Quran denies the divinity of Jesus Christ? Yes, the Quran goes to great lengths to deny Jesus of the Quran worship by claiming Allah has no son, but at the same time, Allah gave the Jesus of the Quran no other as father, and even lifts him to himself — by passing judgment altogether — while insisting that Jesus would stand as witness against his followers at the end; Mohammed will face judgment but Jesus of the Quran will not. 🥱🥱

3. Not necessarily, as even the belief of the Satanists fits in well with Christian belief.... it is all based on the religion that was created by the Romans of the ideas stolen from the original movement, which began with the Israelites(Jews) in Judea before they were eventually kicked out by the Romans. 🥱🥱

Judaism is a religion that began in Babylon during the time that the people of Judea(the Jews) were in captivity there. And, yes, there are common elements between all religions. However, if you notice, my only reason for separating these particular religions remains that one was created and still is administered to this day by those who are of the chosen bloodline of YHWH, while the other(Islam included) isn't.🥱🥱

4. It isn't a comparison. Historians have it that Quran 18 vs 83–101 literally retells the myth that existed at the time about Alexander, the Great. 🥱🥱

The Hellenistic Alexander Romance is a 3rd-century BCE Greek fictionalized biography of Alexander the Great, blending historical events with myth, fantasy, and propaganda. Often attributed to "Pseudo-Callisthenes," it features tales like Alexander as the son of Egyptian Pharaoh Nectanebo II, diving bell adventures, and journeys to the edge of the world.

5. That isn't true since Arianism is one of the major sects out there, at the time, known for its belief that Jesus was created and hence not co-eternal with his father. 🥱🥱

A lot of Christianity does not conform to the Nicene treaty which was entered into only after many Christian houses had established themselves. Nicene was considered a power play by Rome to bring all of the sects under the same umbrella that later became the Catholic church, but if you go back through your history, you will find that not all of the sects agreed with Nicene nor followed the lead of the Roman church.

Mohammed mentioned the monastics in his Quran. Did you know that there were many who embraced the monastic ideas but were not joined with the church of Rome, even at the time of Mohammed?

Kobojunkie:
1. What chronology of the Hadiths? You claimed information contained in at least one of the Hadiths was not valid because the Hadith was supposedly compiled many, many decades after the death of Mohammed, so I asked, based on the fact that all the Hadiths were compiled almost 150-200 years after the fact, you should probably let us know before hand which Hadiths we should throw out as unauthorized/corrupted. 🥱🥱

2. Is the Quran, therefore, the only valid Islamic text there is? 🥱🥱

Also, how can it be said that the Quran denies the divinity of Jesus in the Quran if the Quran declares he was born of a virgin woman(described as a pure woman Quran 66:12), and instead of dying, was lifted by Allah, directly into Allah's Paradise(Quran 3 vs 55 & Quran 4 vs157-158 )... an opportunity given to no other man(not even Mohammed, the divine one of Allah)? Jesus of the Quran is said to have been born pure and without a father (Quran 19 vs 19-21 & Quran 3 vs 47). So, where do you get this notion that the Quran denies the divinity of Jesus Christ? Yes, the Quran goes to great lengths to deny Jesus of the Quran worship by claiming Allah has no son, but at the same time, Allah gave the Jesus of the Quran no other as father, and even lifts him to himself — by passing judgment altogether — while insisting that Jesus would stand as witness against his followers at the end; Mohammed will face judgment but Jesus of the Quran will not. 🥱🥱

3. Not necessarily, as even the belief of the Satanists fits in well with Christian belief.... it is all based on the religion that was created by the Romans of the ideas stolen from the original movement, which began with the Israelites(Jews) in Judea before they were eventually kicked out by the Romans. 🥱🥱

Judaism is a religion that began in Babylon during the time that the people of Judea(the Jews) were in captivity there. And, yes, there are common elements between all religions. However, if you notice, my only reason for separating these particular religions remains that one was created and still is administered to this day by those who are of the chosen bloodline of YHWH, while the other(Islam included) isn't.🥱🥱

4. It isn't a comparison. Historians have it that Quran 18 vs 83–101 literally retells the myth that existed at the time about Alexander, the Great. 🥱🥱

Your argument falls apart when examined through facts, and logic. First, not all hadith were recorded 150–200 years later.Many were memorized, practiced, and even written down during the Prophet’s lifetime, such as the Sahifa of ʿAbdullah ibn ʿAmr. Scholars like Bukhari didn't create hadith; they collected and verified existing ones. Islam differentiates between hadith, with a system that distinguishes between sound and weak transmissions. This reflects precision, not corruption.

Second, the Qur’an alone is enough to refute the idea of Jesus’ divinity, independent of hadith. Concepts like virgin birth, purity, and ascension do not imply divinity consider Adam, who had no parents and is clearly identified as human. The Qur’an consistently denies Jesus’ divinity, sonship, and worship (see verses 4:171, 5:72–75, 5:116). Being raised by God is an honor, not a claim to divinity. All prophets face judgment, and Jesus being a witness does not confer divinity.

Third, the assertion that anything with Christian roots is Christian is illogical. By that reasoning, Islam, Judaism, Satanism, and Gnosticism would all be classified as Christian, which dilutes the term's meaning. Christianity is defined by belief in Jesus’ divinity, crucifixion, and resurrection all of which are explicitly rejected by Islam. Shared figures do not equal the same religion.

Fourth, the argument about a chosen bloodline is a form of theological racism, not historical fact. Judaism did not originate in Babylon, and Christianity separated from Judaism despite sharing scriptures similar to how Islam separated from Christianity. Shared ancestry does not imply identical beliefs.

Finally, the claim regarding Dhul-Qarnayn does not prove anything. Shared themes do not indicate borrowing; otherwise, one could argue that Genesis borrows from Gilgamesh, which would undermine Christianity by linking it to Mesopotamian myths. This standard ultimately weakens your own position.

Regarding the image you attached it claims that something is 1,500-1,600 years old, but then it turns around and acknowledges that Old Arabic dates back to the 1st millennium BCE, which is over 3,000 years old. That’s a pretty big contradiction--1,500 years off!

Then there's a mix-up between standardization and origin. The 7th century is when the Quran was standardized, not when the language itself was born. It’s like saying English is only 400 years old just because we have dictionaries from the 1600s.

And when it comes to roots dating back, that can be misleading. It only considers the standardization of Classical Arabic while ignoring Old Arabic inscriptions that go back to the 1st century CE, which is around 2,000 years ago and even earlier.

The influence of languages like Aramaic and Akkadian is mentioned, but that actually supports the idea that Arabic is ancient, not something that just popped up recently.

Your argument lacks rigour and consistency.

honesttalk21:
Your argument falls apart when examined through facts, and logic.

It's all the time other people's argument falls apart..

Can you answer this question?🙂

MaxInDHouse:
With all these grammar i only have one question for you:
Do the Jews, Churches and Muslims have the same root claiming worshipers of the Abrahamic God?🙂

lawani:
Torah stories inside the Koran is not proof enough for you? If you see Oduduwa stories inside the Koran, will you need proof of where Mohammed got it from?

Which Torah stories are inside the Qur'an? Do provide clear proofs!

And if Jesus quoted a verse from the Old testament do you say he copied it too?

AntiChristian:
Which Torah stories are inside the Qur'an? Do provide clear proofs!

And if Jesus quoted a verse from the Old testament do you say he copied it too?

Jesus did not say he received those verses from God directly. Muslims insist the Quran was divinely revealed to Mohammed when it is obviously a new edition Torah or a new edition of the Bible

honesttalk21:
...Your argument lacks rigour and consistency.

Again, I am not arguing anything but simply focused on correcting misinformation here. Much of your statements seem geared towards ignoring historical facts(including facts of claims made in the Quran itself) all for a man called Mohammed worshipped by his followers. 🥱

Op isn't the first to raise the argument that Islam is a sect of Christianity that blew up big. John of Damascus, a Christian who lived in the area that is Syria today made similar observations back around 100 years after the death of Mohammed. he analyzed the Quran and came aware describing Mohammed as a heretic..not a pagan(a person of another religion).

There is also the superstition of the Ishmaelites which to this day prevails and keeps people in error, being a forerunner of the Antichrist. They are descended from Ishmael, [who] was born to Abraham of Agar, and for this reason they are called both Agarenes and Ishmaelites. They are also called Saracens, which is derived from Sarras kenoi, or destitute of Sara, because of what Agar said to the angel: ‘Sara hath sent me away destitute.’ [ Quran 99] These used to be idolaters and worshiped the morning star and Aphrodite, whom in their own language they called Khabár, which means great. [ Quran 100] And so down to the time of Heraclius they were very great idolaters. From that time to the present, a false prophet named Mohammed has appeared in their midst. This man, after having chanced upon the Old and New Testaments and likewise, it seems, having conversed with an Arian monk, [ Quran 101] devised his own heresy. Then, having insinuated himself into the good graces of the people by a show of seeming piety, he gave out that a certain book had been sent down to him from heaven. He had set down some ridiculous compositions in this book of his, and he gave it to them as an object of veneration. http://orthodoxinfo.com/general/stjohn_islam.aspx

He also noted how Mohammed seemed fixated on making himself the god with his many ideas, which seem nothing but twists on that written in the Bible. 🥱

AntiChristian:
✓ Which Torah stories are inside the Qur'an? Do provide clear proofs!
✓ And if Jesus quoted a verse from the Old testament do you say he copied it too?

More like Mohammed used the names of Israelite Prophets listed in the Torah to spin his own tales. He claims Ishamael was the one chosen by Allah, however, all of the prophets before him came from the bloodline of Isaac, the one not chosen by Allah. How come? Abraham has other children, so why only from the bloodline of the one whom Mohammed's Allah did not choose? 🥱🥱

2. Jesus Christ of Israel was promised in the Old Law and the Prophets, and He also happened to be of the very same bloodline that is the Law and the the Prophets. No copying there since it is all part and parcel of His very ancestry. 🥱🥱

Kobojunkie:
More like Mohammed used the names of Israelite Prophets listed in the Torah to spin his own tales.

What about Prophets Hud, Saleh and Shu'ayb that are not mentioned in the Bible, ignoramus? This just proves that Prophet Muhammad's knowledge is superior and richer!

He claims Ishamael was the one chosen by Allah, however, all of the prophets before him came from the bloodline of Isaac, the one not chosen by Allah. How come? Abraham has other children, so why only from the bloodline of the one whom Mohammed's Allah did not choose?

🥱🥱Where is the claim that Ishmaeel is the one chosen by Allah in the Qur'an?

Allah says what means:
"We have revealed to you (O Messenger), as We revealed to Noah and the Prophets after him; and We revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the descendants..." Surah An-Nisa (4:163)

So it is clear there were all appointed and chosen by Allah!

2. Jesus Christ of Israel was promised in the Old Law and the Prophets, and He also happened to be of the very same bloodline that is the Law and the the Prophets. No copying there since it is all part and parcel of His very ancestry. 🥱🥱

But Jesus was not human but God or son of God! How can God have ancestry?

What you are saying is that Jesus is free to copy from Moses and David and no Problem that's not plagiarism but others are not free to do same! That pretty obnoxious prejudice don't you think?

lawani:
Jesus did not say he received those verses from God directly. Muslims insist the Quran was divinely revealed to Mohammed when it is obviously a new edition Torah or a new edition of the Bible

Of course Jesus didn't author anything from the Bible! The truth is that the writers are largely unknown and the most likely persons are chosen!
What stories exists in the Qur'an that is verbatim in the Bible?

Why are Prophets Hud, Shu'ayb and Saleh not in the Bible but only in the Qur'an?

AntiChristian:
➜What about Prophets Hud, Saleh and Shu'ayb that are not mentioned in the Bible, ignoramus? This just proves that Prophet Muhammad's knowledge is superior and richer!
➜ Where is the claim that Ishmaeel is the one chosen by Allah in the Qur'an?
Allah says what means: "We have revealed to you (O Messenger), as We revealed to Noah and the Prophets after him; and We revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the descendants..." Surah An-Nisa (4:163)
➜So it is clear there were all appointed and chosen by Allah!
➜But Jesus was not human but God or son of God! How can God have ancestry?
➜What you are saying is that Jesus is free to copy from Moses and David and no Problem that's not plagiarism but others are not free to do same! That pretty obnoxious prejudice don't you think?

1. Wow...talk about shifting of goal posts. Need I remind you of your question?

AntiChristian:
✓ Which Torah stories are inside the Qur'an? Do provide clear proofs!
✓ And if Jesus quoted a verse from the Old testament do you say he copied it too?

I am certainly not the ignoramus here.🥱

Oh, definitely! Mohammed definitely had a knack for taking stories from here and there. The Quran is literally filled with references taken from myths that existed long before his time. 🤔

2. Are you insinuating that the Hadiths are alsocorrupted too? It seems a lot of you are quick to throw the Hadiths under the bus whenever it suits you. Sahih Muslim 2276 explicitly states that Ishmael was the one chosen for his covenant. 🥱

“Verily, Allah chose Kinanah from the sons of Ishmael, he chose the Quraysh from Kinanah, he chose the tribe of Hashim from the Quraysh, and he chose me from the tribe of Hashim.” -Sahih Muslim 2276

Allah then listening prophets from the bloodline of Isaac, the ones to whom he refused to give his Covenants, is what I am asking. 🥱🥱

3. The Jesus of the Quran was not portrayed in the same light as any human I know of. We should probably get clues from the Quran on the why of this. Why does the Quran reject the divinity of the person of Jesus in the Quran, while at the same time, giving him superhuman capabilities that even Mohammed could not compare to?

4. Wrong! Moses and David are ancestors of Jesus Christ of Israel; therefore, He infringed upon no copyrights when He quoted the statements made by His ancestors. 😂😂😂

Kobojunkie:
Again, I am not arguing anything but simply focused on correcting misinformation here. Much of your statements seem geared towards ignoring historical facts(including facts of claims made in the Quran itself) all for a man called Mohammed worshipped by his followers. 🥱

Op isn't the first to raise the argument that Islam is a sect of Christianity that blew up big. John of Damascus, a Christian who lived in the area that is Syria today made similar observations back around 100 years after the death of Mohammed. he analyzed the Quran and came aware describing Mohammed as a heretic..not a pagan(a person of another religion).

He also noted how Mohammed seemed fixated on making himself the god with his many ideas, which seem nothing but twists on that written in the Bible. 🥱

You're not correcting misinformation; you're repeating a heated false argument. When John of Damascus called Islam a Christian heresy, it only shows how a Christian thinker from the 7th or 8th century saw a religion he saw as a rival. He looked at the Qur’an through a Christian lens, so naturally he labeled things he disagreed with as heresy. That’s describing his view, not proving what Islam actually teaches.

More importantly, looking at the facts, Islam clearly rejects the idea that Muhammad pbuh is divine and condemns worshiping any human (Qur’an 18:110, 41:6). Saying he was worshiped is simply wrong. Islam also denies the main ideas of Christianity seen in the Trinity, the Incarnation, Jesus as the Son of God, and Atonement. A sect changes part of a religion; Islam rejects its core beliefs entirely.

Believing Jesus is a prophet doesn’t make someone Christian. Jews believe in Moses without being a group within Judaism; Christians accept Hebrew prophets but aren’t just a branch of Judaism.

Using John of Damascus as a source means relying on a critic’s theology and calling it history. By that logic, Jewish criticisms would make Christianity a Jewish heresy too.

The bottom line is Islam isn’t a Christian sect that grew into a big religion. It’s a separate Abrahamic faith that directly opposes Christianity’s main teachings. Calling something heresy doesn’t mean it came from those beliefs it just shows where biases lie.

honesttalk21:
✓ You're not correcting misinformation; you're repeating a heated false argument. When John of Damascus called Islam a Christian heresy, it only shows how a Christian thinker from the 7th or 8th century saw a religion he saw as a rival. He looked at the Qur’an through a Christian lens, so naturally he labeled things he disagreed with as heresy. That’s describing his view, not proving what Islam actually teaches.
✓ More importantly, looking at the facts, Islam clearly rejects the idea that Muhammad pbuh is divine and condemns worshiping any human (Qur’an 18:110, 41:6). Saying he was worshiped is simply wrong. Islam also denies the main ideas of Christianity seen in the Trinity, the Incarnation, Jesus as the Son of God, and Atonement. A sect changes part of a religion; Islam rejects its core beliefs entirely.
✓ Believing Jesus is a prophet doesn’t make someone Christian. Jews believe in Moses without being a group within Judaism; Christians accept Hebrew prophets but aren’t just a branch of Judaism.
✓ Using John of Damascus as a source means relying on a critic’s theology and calling it history. By that logic, Jewish criticisms would make Christianity a Jewish heresy too.
✓ The bottom line is Islam isn’t a Christian sect that grew into a big religion. It’s a separate Abrahamic faith that directly opposes Christianity’s main teachings. Calling something heresy doesn’t mean it came from those beliefs it just shows where biases lie.

1. So, the view of Christians who lived during the time of the Caliphates and had the chance to examine the different iterations of the Quran, before the final standardization which is what you have today, is invalid? 🥱🥱🥱

2. Islam rejects Mohammed's divinity yet requires that Mohammedians pray to Mohammed 5 times a day? 😩😩😩

3. The Quran's Jesus suggests a prophet and human being very much different from what we consider human. The Jesus of the Quran is said to skip judgment entirely and will serve as a judge over his followers. Does that seem to you like any human you know of? Even Mohammed, does not have such elevation to his status despite equally being portrayed in his book as a divine one. 🥱🥱🥱

4. This isn't reliance on the theology of critics but merely pointing to the fact that Islam as a part of Christianity has been around since the dawn of Islam. 🥱🥱

5. Opinions do not erase known facts.

Just like sects such as Scientology, Unitarian universalists, World Mission Society Church of God, unification Church, etc., are considered Christian even with nothing of that which is Nicene respected by any of them, so also, Islam, too, can be considered a Christian sect. 🥱🥱

Kobojunkie:
1. So, the view of Christians who lived during the time of the Caliphates and had the chance to examine the different iterations of the Quran, before the final standardization which is what you have today, is invalid? 🥱🥱🥱

2. Islam rejects Mohammed's divinity yet requires that Mohammedians pray to Mohammed 5 times a day? 😩😩😩

3. The Quran's Jesus suggests a prophet and human being very much different from what we consider human. The Jesus of the Quran is said to skip judgment entirely and will serve as a judge over his followers. Does that seem to you like any human you know of? Even Mohammed, does not have such elevation to his status despite equally being portrayed in his book as a divine one. 🥱🥱🥱

4. This isn't reliance on the theology of critics but merely pointing to the fact that Islam as a part of Christianity has been around since the dawn of Islam. 🥱🥱

5. Opinions do not erase known facts.

Just like sects such as Scientology, Unitarian universalists, World Mission Society Church of God, unification Church, etc., are considered Christian even with nothing of that which is Nicene respected by any of them, so also, Islam, too, can be considered a Christian sect. 🥱🥱

Shared figures do not equate to shared religion. Islam is an independent Abrahamic faith that fundamentally differs from Christianity, rather than being a sect of it.

1. Early Christian views are not definitive evidence. Manuscripts from that time do not indicate different doctrines, only variations in spelling and reading. There is no Christian source that supports the existence of multiple Qur’ans with differing theological views. I will appreciate you share if you have.

2. Muslims do not worship Muhammad pbuh. Their prayers, known as solat, are directed solely to God; sending blessings upon Muhammad is not the same as worship. Do we also worship Abraham?

3. Concepts like virgin birth, ascension, and unique roles do not imply divinity. For instance, Adam had no parents, and angels are exempt from judgment, yet none of them are considered God. The Qur’an clearly states that Jesus is not divine see verses 4:171 and 5:72.

4. Referring to Islam as a Christian sect is a polemical stance rather than a historical fact. John of Damascus represents a Christian rivalry rather than a classification. By that reasoning, one could absurdly label Christianity as a heresy of Judaism.

5. Your classification is wrong. Groups that focus on Christ, even those with unorthodox beliefs, are considered Christian; however, Islam explicitly denies key Christian concepts and it does not fit into any consistent definition of Christianity.

honesttalk21:
➜Shared figures do not equate to shared religion. Islam is an independent Abrahamic faith that fundamentally differs from Christianity, rather than being a sect of it. ...

Not according to your Quran, which insists they are all from one and the same. Even your Allah pretends he is the same that is referred to as YHWH in both the Torah and the Injeel. Come on! 🥱🥱🥱

We are talking of the same lineage— non-Israelites—, same book(Torah and Injeel—, and supposedly the same deity here... Allah claims to be YHWH... why the need for two different religions for the same deity? Even holy water used by the catholics is a part of the Islamic religion, Quran 14 vs 37.🥱🥱

honesttalk21:
Shared figures do not equate to shared religion. Islam is an independent Abrahamic faith that fundamentally differs from Christianity, rather than being a sect of it.

1. Early Christian views are not definitive evidence. Manuscripts from that time do not indicate different doctrines, only variations in spelling and reading. There is no Christian source that supports the existence of multiple Qur’ans with differing theological views. I will appreciate you share if you have.

2. Muslims do not worship Muhammad pbuh. Their prayers, known as solat, are directed solely to God; sending blessings upon Muhammad is not the same as worship. Do we also worship Abraham?

3. Concepts like virgin birth, ascension, and unique roles do not imply divinity. For instance, Adam had no parents, and angels are exempt from judgment, yet none of them are considered God. The Qur’an clearly states that Jesus is not divine see verses 4:171 and 5:72.

4. Referring to Islam as a Christian sect is a polemical stance rather than a historical fact. John of Damascus represents a Christian rivalry rather than a classification. By that reasoning, one could absurdly label Christianity as a heresy of Judaism.

5. Your classification is wrong. Groups that focus on Christ, even those with unorthodox beliefs, are considered Christian; however, Islam explicitly denies key Christian concepts and it does not fit into any consistent definition of Christianity.

Muslims place Mohammed above everyone including God. You have to go through Mohammed to know God's mind. Is it a small thing to be the last prophet? God can't even have a new opinion except through Mohammed. That is huge. You chant Mohammed's name five times a day saying he is the best of mankind. Christians don't worship Jesus that much

Concepts like virgin birth, ascension etc were only spread by Christians during Mohammed's time and to believe them you would be a Christian back then

Yes Christianity was originally an errant sect of Judaism that was persecuted by Jews. Islam too is a a sect of Christianity but was never persecuted by Christians until it became big

Many other Christian sects just like Islam were and are still persecuted by other Christians. They deny key Christian concepts. Islam has therefore not done anything new that other Christian sects have not done before and after it

honesttalk21:
➜Muslims do not worship Muhammad pbuh. Their prayers, known as solat, are directed solely to God; sending blessings upon Muhammad is not the same as worship. Do we also worship Abraham?
➜ Concepts like virgin birth, ascension, and unique roles do not imply divinity. For instance, Adam had no parents, and angels are exempt from judgment, yet none of them are considered God. The Qur’an clearly states that Jesus is not divine see verses 4:171 and 5:72. .

1. 5 Times a day, you say your Muslim prayers; you literally pray to Mohammed, who is dead in his grave somewhere. And it never occurred to you that, because you have to do this and literally live your life to mirror his in most places, you worship him? Come on!

...The worshiper will arise from the prostration to return to the standing position and say, "God is the greatest," completing one full rakah (cycle of prayer).
When the worshiper reaches the end of the second cycle of prayer, and they are sitting on their knees, they will perform the tashahud, or the following steps.
All the compliments, prayers and pure words are for God.
Peace be upon you, O Prophet, and the mercy of God and His blessings.
Peace be upon us, and on the righteous slaves of God.
I bear witness that none has the right to be worshiped except God, and I bear witness that Muhammad is His slave and Messenger.
If this is the final rakah (cycle) in the prayer then the worshiper will add this part:
O God, send prayers upon Muhammad and upon the family (or followers) of Muhammad, just as You sent prayers upon Ibrahim and the family (or followers) of Ibrahim.
Verily, You are full of Praise and Majesty.
O God, bless Muhammad and the family (or followers) of Muhammad as You blessed Ibrahim and the family (or followers) of Ibraaheem.
Verily, You are full of Praise and Majesty.

You literally direct those words in red to Mohammed himself, even as you continue to pretend you only reverence Allah in the rest of the prayer. And the fact that you have to mention Mohammed's name literally so many times already shows the man has a divine role to play in your belief there. Your prayer literally portrays the fact that Allah cannot forgive you of any sin if you do not first make supplication to a dead man, and that does not ring bells in your head regarding the divinity of this man, who was called Mohammed in your lives? How can anyone who prays those mechanical prayers 5 times a day not get that much?

2. Adam had no parent; any human after Adam can also have no parent, and there is nothing special about this. Right? Was Adam also raised, by passing judgment entirely to be with Allah? Was Adam also raised as a witness/judge against all those who came after him?