₦airaland Forum

LordReed:
I see those as solipsistic traps because you are assuming the other humans are not experiencing their own environments without you.

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Nope, that assumption doesn't factor. That's like saying another game player is not experiencing his immediate game environment without you.

Small question, have you heard of the Mandela Effect?

LordReed:
It would to me.

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Oh come on!

To disprove the illusory nature of the world, once a person experiences cause and effect that's it?

There is cause and effect even in video games for heavens sake!

LordReed:
Rather it reveals how shallow you are. In a videogame all characters and npcs can be reset and can be brought back. Increase your depth of thinking, you are still in the kiddie pool.

You are the shallow minded actually

How are you sure that you have not reincarnated before after a reset of your memories?

At least everyone was born and would die

Doesn't that feels like a bringing back and a reset
Wake up

Kayouzka:
You are the shallow minded actually

How are you sure that you have not reincarnated before after a reset of your memories?

At least everyone was born and would die

Doesn't that feels like a bringing back and a reset
Wake up

Dumdum if your memories were reset then how did you know?

No because people don't come back from the dead.

Now run off and go play with your illusions.

DeepSight:
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Oh come on!

To disprove the illusory nature of the world, once a person experiences cause and effect that's it?

There is cause and effect even in video games for heavens sake!

Yup. We need just one person to break the illusion. Jumping down a 16 storey building with no safety device and landing unhurt will totally show us the illusory nature of this world.

But I betting neither you or the dumdum who brought this up have any way to demonstrate that this is the case. If you are a betting man we can put a million bucks on it. You have no way of showing objectively that this world is any illusion, prove me wrong.

DeepSight:
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Nope, that assumption doesn't factor. That's like saying another game player is not experiencing his immediate game environment without you.

Small question, have you heard of the Mandela Effect?

It is still a solipsism trap because you are saying if one player is in one room and the other player is in a different room then the rooms they are respectively not in do not render for them. It is patently absurd. We learn object permanence before we are out of kindergarten. I can't believe any grown up will use this as a point in a debate. C'mon man.

DeepSight:
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Nope, that assumption doesn't factor. That's like saying another game player is not experiencing his immediate game environment without you.

Small question, have you heard of the Mandela Effect?

I'll be surprised if we haven't discussed Mandela Effect before. Yes I have looked into it and it is not that deep. People misremember things all the time. We barely even remember the sequence of clothes we wore last week.

LordReed:
It is still a solipsism trap because you are saying if one player is in one room and the other player is in a different room then the rooms they are respectively not in do not render for them. It is patently absurd. We learn object permanence before we are out of kindergarten. I can't believe any grown up will use this as a point in a debate. C'mon man.

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It might be that I am a child. We will discuss in the thread I create.
Object permanence? I think you are the one who needs to dig deeper. We shall talk.

I have highlighted the bold because it shows something very simple which you have confused yourself about. Till the morrow.

LordReed:
I'll be surprised if we haven't discussed Mandela Effect before. Yes I have looked into it and it is not that deep. People misremember things all the time. We barely even remember the sequence of clothes we wore last week.

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Its a little more than mis-remembering things, and they way you have phrased it makes me ponder if you have gone well into the subject before.

LordReed:
Yup. We need just one person to break the illusion. Jumping down a 16 storey building with no safety device and landing unhurt will totally show us the illusory nature of this world.

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Why must he land unhurt to prove it? Why exactly must be be unhurt if the program is so set already that such an action will result in you being hurt? With due respect sir, this particular argument of yours makes me wary because it strongly suggests to me that you are not prepared for the discussion.

But I betting neither you or the dumdum who brought this up have any way to demonstrate that this is the case. If you are a betting man we can put a million bucks on it. You have no way of showing objectively that this world is any illusion, prove me wrong.

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It might be that I am also a dumdum like him.

However, rest assured, I will let you have all my thoughts in structured form. Some of the questions I am asking you are random. Don't presume too much from them.

I will, as is my wont, start from philosophy and certain historical pointers before I move to the science and I will urge you to take everything into consideration.

LordReed:
Dumdum if your memories were reset then how did you know?

No because people don't come back from the dead.

Now run off and go play with your illusions.

I will ask you just one question and if you cant get it, proving it not an illusion then you are the dumdum here. Here goes the questions...

If the world is not an illusion has you said

"Then what is space made of"

Atleast we all know that space is fundamental to our existence here. So without trying to explain space...we all know it is the distance between object.

Tell us what exactly the 'space' around us is made up of not what it contains but what is that which all is contained in

If you can answer correctly with sound undeniable proof I'll accept that I am the dumdum here.

Kayouzka:
I will ask you just one question and if you cant get it, proving it not an illusion then you are the dumdum here. Here goes the questions...

If the world is not an illusion has you said

"Then what is space made of"

Atleast we all know that space is fundamental to our existence here. So without trying to explain space...we all know it is the distance between object.

Tell us what exactly the 'space' around us is made up of not what it contains but what is that which all is contained in

If you can answer correctly with sound undeniable proof I'll accept that I am the dumdum here.

It is not made of anything. it is a dynamic, elastic framework that is shaped by energy and matter, rather than a substance itself.

What has what space is got to do with our world being an illusion?

DeepSight:
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Why must he land unhurt to prove it? Why exactly must be be unhurt if the program is so set already that such an action will result in you being hurt? With due respect sir, this particular argument of yours makes me wary because it strongly suggests to me that you are not prepared for the discussion.


+
It might be that I am also a dumdum like him.

However, rest assured, I will let you have all my thoughts in structured form. Some of the questions I am asking you are random. Don't presume too much from them.

I will, as is my wont, start from philosophy and certain historical pointers before I move to the science and I will urge you to take everything into consideration.

Have you seen how the illusion of the woman sawed in 2 works? Can you ever now believe she was in any danger? If you know this world is an illusion how can you ever be in any danger likewise?

You are not a dumdum because I know you have thought about these things unlike some of these clowns regurgitating nonsense.

Bring it on bruv, I am waiting.

LordReed:
Have you seen how the illusion of the woman sawed in 2 works? Can you ever now believe she was in any danger? If you know this world is an illusion how can you ever be in any danger likewise?

You are not a dumdum because I know you have thought about these things unlike some of these clowns regurgitating nonsense.

Bring it on bruv, I am waiting.

+
Morning able sire. I have a tasking day but it will be the highlight of my day. I think it's very interesting.

Your use of the word "illusion" though, seems out of sync with what we are talking about. I will explain.

LordReed:
It is not made of anything. it is a dynamic, elastic framework that is shaped by energy and matter, rather than a substance itself.

What has what space is got to do with our world being an illusion?

Elastic?
Where do they put space into?
If it not made up of anything then why does it contain everything and why is everything made of space.

You see yourself infact you have accepted space is not a thing by saying it not made of anything

Yet atoms are made of 99% space
Your car shoes clothe fridge are made of space that is why they can be measured.

Yet space is not made of anything?

Yes space is our world and our world is space

Everything you me and all is contained in space
Yet this space has you have said is not made of anything.

Yet it dynamic Elastic?

Okay now what is an illusion?

An illusion is a misrepresentation of that which exist it is the opposite of reality.

We can know what illusion is if we can know what is real

The only thing real is the here and now

The only position that exist is here
And the only moment that exist is now.

Therefore we all exist in a unified singularity called consciousness.

Therefore space which is the distance between object is defined with time.

If you look at an objects at a distance it took time for that object to travel to you, meaning you are only seeing the past not the "now" a mis representation (illusion), it no longer exists has it is but only has the past meaning you can't catch it it an illusion

If you think of an event it past or it hasn't happened yet. You cannot think the present. It not possible you can't catch the present.

Therefore the illusion is very strong 💪
It a continuum

Even Albert epstein, Neil boer, planck essenbourg theory of uncertainty quantum theory claim that it an illusion.

In the real world thought create reality so space and time doesn't exist. The instant you think you get instant manifestation, so you cant have space and time.

In this fake world thought has already been manifested into energy and matter (simulated or scripted) before we exist in it sotherefore our thought does not matter has a result space and time must exist.

You live in a dream wake up.

Kayouzka:
Elastic?
Where do they put space into?
If it not made up of anything then why does it contain everything and why is everything made of space.

You see yourself infact you have accepted space is not a thing by saying it not made of anything

Yet atoms are made of 99% space
Your car shoes clothe fridge are made of space that is why they can be measured.

Yet space is not made of anything?

Yes space is our world and our world is space

Everything you me and all is contained in space
Yet this space has you have said is not made of anything.

Yet it dynamic Elastic?

Okay now what is an illusion?

An illusion is a misrepresentation of that which exist it is the opposite of reality.

We can know what illusion is if we can know what is real

The only thing real is the here and now

The only position that exist is here
And the only moment that exist is now.

Therefore we all exist in a unified singularity called consciousness.

Therefore space which is the distance between object is defined with time.

If you look at an objects at a distance it took time for that object to travel to you, meaning you are only seeing the past not the "now" a mis representation (illusion), it no longer exists has it is but only has the past meaning you can't catch it it an illusion

If you think of an event it past or it hasn't happened yet. You cannot think the present. It not possible you can't catch the present.

Therefore the illusion is very strong 💪
It a continuum

Even Albert epstein, Neil boer, planck essenbourg theory of uncertainty quantum theory claim that it an illusion.

In the real world thought create reality so space and time doesn't exist. The instant you think you get instant manifestation, so you cant have space and time.

In this fake world thought has already been manifested into energy and matter (simulated or scripted) before we exist in it sotherefore our thought does not matter has a result space and time must exist.

You live in a dream wake up.

You are confusing the map for the place. We are using human language to describe a thing that is immaterial therefore we use descriptions of familiar experiences to aid our understanding. It is an unfortunate limitation with us and our languages.

Also you mistake the limitations of our human brains for an illusion of reality. It is our brains that is limited not the world us. That you cannot see all the breath of the electromagnetic spectrum doesn't make the world an illusion.

I have issued you a challenge, if you believe this world is an illusion then break it. I bet you all the money in the world that you can't. You are the one living in a dream, a dream where you think you know more than actually do but can't realise you are lost.

DeepSight:
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Morning able sire. I have a tasking day but it will be the highlight of my day. I think it's very interesting.

Your use of the word "illusion" though, seems out of sync with what we are talking about. I will explain.

Ok I await your explanation.

LordReed:
You are confusing the map for the place. We are using human language to describe a thing that is immaterial therefore we use descriptions of familiar experiences to aid our understanding. It is an unfortunate limitation with us and our languages.

Also you mistake the limitations of our human brains for an illusion of reality. It our brains that is limited not the world us. That you cannot see all the breath of the electromagnetic spectrum doesn't make the world an illusion.

I have issued you a challenge, if you believe this world is an illusion then break it. I bet you all the money in the world that you can't. You are the one living in a dream, a dream where you think you know more than actually do but can't realise you are lost.

You have offered no concrete arguments


Dreams are only has real has they last

When you dream at night doesn't it seems real
But when you wake up wouldn't you call it a dream

The difference between me and you is that I have woken up and you are still at sleep

The real world never ends
It is eternal

If it can't last forever then it is a dream.

Kayouzka:
You have offered no concrete arguments


Dreams are only has real has they last

When you dream at night doesn't it seems real
But when you wake up wouldn't you call it a dream

The difference between me and you is that I have woken up and you are still at sleep

The real world never ends
It is eternal

If it can't last forever then it is a dream.

You are the one making a giant boast but are as empty as a dried out gongoni.

The challenge remains, break the illusion for everyone to see or forever remain a loud empty barrel.

Kayouzka:
Okay now what is an illusion?

An illusion is a misrepresentation of that which exist it is the opposite of reality.

We can know what illusion is if we can know what is real

The only thing real is the here and now

The only position that exist is here
And the only moment that exist is now.

What exactly does the "here and now" refer to as you have used it?

Is the "here and now" not part of the same world you say is an illusion?

The concept you're discussing is something I'm very familiar with, but which you have greatly misconstrued, hence the reason both you and Lordreed are talking past each other

You don't seem to realise that what you've described about our world is not only outlandish, but actually points to the opposite of what you're trying to explain. It is why he asked you to try jump from a 16th storey building to prove it.

Your description suggests that since the world is an illusion, those of us living in it could simply walk through walls easily like in a dream. But this is not what happens. The reason is that the world exists as a creation guided by definite laws which make that impossible

The world is not an illusion as long as it continues to exist. However, there are two main reason people describe it as illusion.

The first, is the belief that the universe emerged from "nothingness" and will one day return to it. I call it belief because this isn't a settled fact, but a view held in certain quarters, including some scientific interpretations

The second, is that our perception of reality is incomplete. We don't perceive the world as it is, but only as we're equipped to perceive it. The colour a "red" apple, for instance, isn't red in itself. It reflects certain wavelengths we interpret as red. In this instance, the perception is real, but it's not the full reality of the object.

So, the world is both real and not real, real because it exists, not real in how we perceive and relate to it. That's very different from referring to it as illusion you could simply walk through , which is what you described but not conscious of.

triplechoice:
What exactly does the "here and now" refer to as you have used it?

Is the "here and now" not part of the same world you say is an illusion?

The concept you're discussing is something I'm very familiar with, but which you have greatly misconstrued, hence the reason both you and Lordreed are talking past each other

You don't seem to realise that what you've described about our world is not only outlandish, but actually points to the opposite of what you're trying to explain. It is why he asked you to try jump from a 16th storey building to prove it.

Your description suggests that since the world is an illusion, those of us living in it could simply walk through walls easily like in a dream. But this is not what happens. The reason is that the world exists as a creation guided by definite laws which make that impossible

The world is not an illusion as long as it continues to exist. However, there are two main reason people describe it as illusion.

The first, is the belief that the universe emerged from "nothingness" and will one day return to it. I call it belief because this isn't a settled fact, but a view held in certain quarters, including some scientific interpretations

The second, is that our perception of reality is incomplete. We don't perceive the world as it is, but only as we're equipped to perceive it. The colour a "red" apple, for instance, isn't red in itself. It reflects certain wavelengths we interpret as red. In this instance, the perception is real, but it's not the full reality of the object.

So, the world is both real and not real, real because it exists, not real in how we perceive and relate to it. That's very different from referring to it as illusion you could simply walk through , which is what you described but not conscious of.

Once again you cut to the heart of the matter. I thank you for that.

I think I thought I glimpsed his characterisation of illusion as the second part of what you described but he blew it off so I assumed he is insisting it is a dream world which he can traipse through like Alice in Wonderland.

DeepSight:
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Morning able sire. I have a tasking day but it will be the highlight of my day. I think it's very interesting.

Your use of the word "illusion" though, seems out of sync with what we are talking about. I will explain.

I found the paper

https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/physics/articles/10.3389/fphy.2025.1561873/full#s5

This link takes you straight to the conclusion but you can scroll up to go through the rest of it. It's a well written and engaging paper but if you read nothing else in it please read all of the conclusion.

I must humble brag that I reached my conclusion of the astronomical energy cost before I even knew this paper existed.

Found where I said it in 2019

LordReed:
I don't accept the logical path this conclusion follows hence I don't accept the simulation theory. Just the energy required to maintain such a simulation should be incomprehensibly prohibitive.

This paper is 2025.

LordReed:
I found the paper

https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/physics/articles/10.3389/fphy.2025.1561873/full#s5

This link takes you straight to the conclusion but you can scroll up to go through the rest of it. It's a well written and engaging paper but if you read nothing else in it please read all of the conclusion.

I must humble brag that I reached my conclusion of the astronomical energy cost before I even knew this paper existed.

Found where I said it in 2019



This paper is 2025.

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No being within any reality can say what energy is required to create or sustain that reality and this is indisputable.

Very busy day but hopefully tomorrow will do my thread. And revert.

triplechoice:
What exactly does the "here and now" refer to as you have used it?

Is the "here and now" not part of the same world you say is an illusion?

The concept you're discussing is something I'm very familiar with, but which you have greatly misconstrued, hence the reason both you and Lordreed are talking past each other

You don't seem to realise that what you've described about our world is not only outlandish, but actually points to the opposite of what you're trying to explain. It is why he asked you to try jump from a 16th storey building to prove it.

Your description suggests that since the world is an illusion, those of us living in it could simply walk through walls easily like in a dream. But this is not what happens. The reason is that the world exists as a creation guided by definite laws which make that impossible

The world is not an illusion as long as it continues to exist. However, there are two main reason people describe it as illusion.

The first, is the belief that the universe emerged from "nothingness" and will one day return to it. I call it belief because this isn't a settled fact, but a view held in certain quarters, including some scientific interpretations

The second, is that our perception of reality is incomplete. We don't perceive the world as it is, but only as we're equipped to perceive it. The colour a "red" apple, for instance, isn't red in itself. It reflects certain wavelengths we interpret as red. In this instance, the perception is real, but it's not the full reality of the object.

So, the world is both real and not real, real because it exists, not real in how we perceive and relate to it. That's very different from referring to it as illusion you could simply walk through , which is what you described but not conscious of.

Walking through walls infact would make it even more real

Our world has code and boundaries just like a computer game

When you play a computer game the characters don't just do whatever they like because you want to, rather they can only express thereselfs within the boundaries of the game

So how is that different from our world?

Our world is a construct with boundaries and codes

That is why everything can be analysed with a computer because it a computer simulation

Yes it has to seem real because we experience it

But on a fundamental level it is an illusion

Let me reiterate

The world is an illusion
Because nothingness is the only thing that is but nothingness must convince itself that it something thus is the illusions

A more realistic world would bare no limits

triplechoice:
What exactly does the "here and now" refer to as you have used it?

Is the "here and now" not part of the same world you say is an illusion?

The concept you're discussing is something I'm very familiar with, but which you have greatly misconstrued, hence the reason both you and Lordreed are talking past each other

You don't seem to realise that what you've described about our world is not only outlandish, but actually points to the opposite of what you're trying to explain. It is why he asked you to try jump from a 16th storey building to prove it.

Your description suggests that since the world is an illusion, those of us living in it could simply walk through walls easily like in a dream. But this is not what happens. The reason is that the world exists as a creation guided by definite laws which make that impossible

The world is not an illusion as long as it continues to exist. However, there are two main reason people describe it as illusion.

The first, is the belief that the universe emerged from "nothingness" and will one day return to it. I call it belief because this isn't a settled fact, but a view held in certain quarters, including some scientific interpretations

The second, is that our perception of reality is incomplete. We don't perceive the world as it is, but only as we're equipped to perceive it. The colour a "red" apple, for instance, isn't red in itself. It reflects certain wavelengths we interpret as red. In this instance, the perception is real, but it's not the full reality of the object.

So, the world is both real and not real, real because it exists, not real in how we perceive and relate to it. That's very different from referring to it as illusion you could simply walk through , which is what you described but not conscious of.

Let me give you an example

You are hungry
You perceive that has reality
If you eat you'd be full and not experience hunger
But if you don't eat you'll die and not experience hunger

Where reality comes into play is that it pervades the illusion, the experience go but the experiencer remains

Neither eating nor dying would change the fundamental reality that you are conscious.

But the hunger would go either if you eat or die it would be past tense whether you like it or not

But hunger is a part of this realm isn't it?
The catch is that it can't last forever thus it is an illusion.

Note I didn't deny reality

So what then is reality

I only said that reality is here And now
Some calls it consciousness. The I am Ness

Again
Like this
Soldier go soldier come
Barracks remains

The illusion is soldier
The reality is barrack

Hunger for instance is only a code
Such as pain
Objects
Everything
There existence and reality seem objective to us because we are bound by this code but on a more fundamental levels they are just codes (illusions) and can be experienced various ways if you can crack the code.

Take a look at technology there are technology that could make you invisible, there are mind control even there might be technology that can make people disappear.

200 years ago who could have thought that people would be able to video call people from miles away.

Boundaries are the illusions

It is even worse than I thought. LoLz.

LordReed:
It is even worse than I thought. LoLz.

Hehehe

It is "worse" because of the way he is describing it.

Please search for this book.

"The holographic universe" by Michael Talbot.

This book started it all for the general public. If you read it, you will understand better what he is trying to explain all this time.

Kayouzka:
Walking through walls infact would make it even more real

Our world has code and boundaries just like a computer game

When you play a computer game the characters don't just do whatever they like because you want to, rather they can only express thereselfs within the boundaries of the game

So how is that different from our world?

Our world is a construct with boundaries and codes

That is why everything can be analysed with a computer because it a computer simulation

Yes it has to seem real because we experience it

But on a fundamental level it is an illusion

Let me reiterate

The world is an illusion
Because nothingness is the only thing that is but nothingness must convince itself that it something thus is the illusions

A more realistic world would bare no limits

Your computer game analogy is a false equivalence.

Characters in a computer game don't suddenly wake up and understand they are in a computer game. No instance of that has ever happened. So how did your "awakening" happen?

I not done yet. I will come back later to reply to the other things you detailed.

triplechoice:
Hehehe

It is "worse" because of the way he is describing it.

Please search for this book.

"The holographic universe" by Michael Talbot.

This book started it all for the general public. If you read it, you will understand better what he is trying to explain all this time.

Like I pointed out to my bro DeepSight some of these guys are just regurgitating what they have no proper understanding of. I just took a cursory look into the holographic principle and it is far from the half baked gruel he was spitting out.

Lemme read some more.

triplechoice:
Your computer game analogy is a false equivalence.

Characters in a computer game don't suddenly wake up and understand they are in a computer game. No instance of that has ever happened. So how did your "awakening" happen?

I not done yet. I will come back later to reply to the other things you detailed.

Some characters in a computer are npcs (non player characters) just programs.

Some characters are conscious
The conscious characters know they are in a game.
They are in this world but not of it.

A game for example, You are the player you know you are playing a game and there npcs those are just programs

Some conscious players can forget that they are in a game because the game is immersive

Think about a VR set very immersive. If you had also lived in a VR world you'd think it reality.

How much more this.

What else could this world be if not a simulation
Since it governed by mathematical and scientific principles.

Kayouzka:
Lol so shallow you are

When you play gta isn't the character limited to the game?

My physical body is limited to the illusion but my higher body is not

If I fall from a 16 story building my soul would work out of my body unscathed
And I would still be conscious because consciousness never dies

Great is thy patient man - I wish I have all the time to engage him as you do.

DeepSight:
+
Why must he land unhurt to prove it? Why exactly must be be unhurt if the program is so set already that such an action will result in you being hurt? With due respect sir, this particular argument of yours makes me wary because it strongly suggests to me that you are not prepared for the discussion.


+
It might be that I am also a dumdum like him.

However, rest assured, I will let you have all my thoughts in structured form. Some of the questions I am asking you are random. Don't presume too much from them.

I will, as is my wont, start from philosophy and certain historical pointers before I move to the science and I will urge you to take everything into consideration.

I'm surprised it took you this long to figure out the guy! He's not interested in you answers but in spurning a long argument.
Fortunately for him, I don't have such luxury of time at my disposal.