₦airaland Forum

Other countries are planning how to make humanoids and travel to Mars; Nigeria is still battling with darkness . . . it is well

Sangoamadioha1:
1) Under the reduction in fuel scarcity is due to local refining of petrol.

2) Transmission of electricity is our major problem. Upgrade the transmission facilities and the situation will get better.

The annual funds being released to the power ministry is enough to remedy these things.

Oh, you don't even know anything! You think it is power ministry that is funding these things!

Kai! I'm sorry I ever engaged you.

nairalanda1:
The problem is, the money for subsides will come from the 1.9 million barrels per day we produce here in nigeria...which is not enough for a country our size revenue wise, and that is before corruption comes in.

Also, we need something like 10-15 trillion naira annually in new investment for at leasr 5 years before we can see improvement. That is about a quarter of our current budget. And that is for new investment...doesn't cover subsidy or revenues.

That means that if you want subsides, you got to pay through the nose for it....by massive borrowing and more debt.

Also, Ghana and Ivory coast don't have subsides, and as a result have decent power supply. Egypt, that Peter Obi holds up as an example, removed subsides on power. That's our comparison...not India which is relatively wealthy

you are one of them that support the band A rhetoric. Why is the band a not having light? At least that would make others want to be moved to band a.

Sangoamadioha1:
In Nigeria corruption and wasteful spending are the cause of our problems.
Even if subsidy is removed, nothing will change because of the same corruption and wasteful spending.

That won't happen because the discos and gencos are not government owned corporations.

What would happen is that they would become potentially profitable, and as a result would be able to attract more investment and money to fix things...and pay the TCN for using their services, as well as pay for more gas.

Liberalizing the telecom sector did not lead to corruption in the sector increasing, for example.

We were told no money to invest in other areas of national life that is why fuel subsidy had to go but after removing fuel subsidy which areas of national life improved. We are even borrowing more than when subsidy was in place.

It was more of 'subsidy had to go because we were running out of money' really. The idea that subsidy removal meant that everyone would have more money was a 'sweetner' put there by government to convince people.

But on a more honest note, subsidy did have to go. BY August 2022, we were on our last legs revenue wise. Government revenues were being used to service the debt from subsidy at a very high rate. Either subsidy went or we would have been broke.

And no, I am not effing saying this to defend tinubu. I saw the light re subsidy removal in 2012. In 2011, subsidy costs rose up by three times from 2010...because rising oil prices meant that subsidy costs also rose. That's why GEJ did a partial removal in 2012....

naptu2:
Hahahahajjajaja

Thank you for entertaining me. You actually believe that Dangote would have accepted fuel subsidy? That he would have sold his product below cost price based on a government promise to pay? You are a good comedian.


Once again, the system operator is telling you that gencos can't buy gas and you are talking about transmission. What are they transmitting, fresh air?

Was subsidy removed when Dangote started his refinery? You want to tell me that he started and invested so much based on promises by politicians.
If subsidy was still in place Dangote would still be doing his refinery business.

When Nigeria's generation reached 5 thousand+ MGW was there any improvement reaching the masses In terms of power supply?

Tinubu already told you, if he can't provide constant electricity and remove estimated billings, don't vote him. Not beyond 2027.

fineboynl:
you are one of them that support the band A rhetoric. Why is the band a not having light? At least that would make others want to be moved to band a.

Simple, because at the end of the day, band A form only 20% of total consumers, and because most consumers do not pay a cost reflective tarrif.

That means that the money earned at the end of the day is not enough to pay for improvements.

For things to improve, discos would have to be earning the amount of 15 trillion naira from band A consumers....which is not possible.

Hell, the issue is the right of a company or an individual to set its prices....and taking away that right from the power sector is why you don't have light.

naptu2:
It's inevitable, the ridiculous subsidy has got to go!

If it goes, then minimum wage need to to be pal with the cost of living.

They increase pay here yearly to match the inflation, even if the inflation is higher but at least an increase can cushion even if it small, make person no go craze. Nigerians never ready.

nairalanda1:
The problem is our power sector needs investment and no one is going to invest in a sector where there is subsidy.

That is because you won't see adequate profit and return on investment because for most consumers government is setting prices to the point where ROI is impossicant.

Let me put it this way, you got two bakery business you want to invest in.
One of them is located in a state where they sell bread at a price of 200 naira when it costs 2000 naira to bake one loaf because the state government has brought in price controls and the subsidy they pay doesn't cover potential rises in production costs.

In the other state , bread is sold for 2600 per loaf , the same cost to bake it as the other state. Where would you invest your money.?


Ivory coast and Ghana stopped subsides on their power sector. Last time ivory coast had system collapse was in the 1980s. They privatised and removed subsidies in 1993.

You keep repeating this jargons everytime, your own solution is always increase or subsidy removal all the time.
Keep supporting nonsense, even if they increase tarif to 1k without adding anything singke megawatt it won't change anything, the story will remain the same every dry season they are all thiefs.

naptu2:
Oh, you don't even know anything! You think it is power ministry that is funding these things!

Kai! I'm sorry I ever engaged you.

Sorry for yourself. You see the other guy engaging me in a matured way but you are just being unnecessarily condescending.
I now know why it is the empty barrels that display unnecessary pride to cover their deficiencies.
Shift.

Gentlelife50:
You keep this and repeating this jargons everytime, your own solution is always increase or subsidy removal all the time.
Keep supporting nonsense, even if they increase tarif to 1k without adding anything singke megawatt it won't change anything, the story will remain the same every dry season they are all thiefs.

The problem is subsidising power to the point where everyone is going to pay say N20 or less per kwh and see expansion of generation and distribution would cost over 20 trillion naira yearly...and our budget is not rising over 60 trillion naira.

You know that means more borrowing and more borrowing...which has to be paid back.

Ghana and Ivory coast removed subsides...and so far they are reaping the benefits. We don keep subsidy for over 45 years. And power supply has been falling drastically since then. We can't keep repeating the same mistake over and over again expecting to see result.

Every dick & harry wanna have a say in what they don't even know about.

Ask all the investors in the value chain, and they'll tell you the truth.

Transmission is the problem. This is where what is generated get loss.
It's totally inefficient!

Sangoamadioha1:
Was subsidy removed when Dangote started his refinery? You want to tell me that he started and invested so much based on promises by politicians.
If subsidy was still in place Dangote would still be doing his refinery business.

When Nigeria's generation reached 5 thousand+ MGW was there any improvement reaching the masses In terms of power supply?

Mr man! You don't know anything!

OK, let me help you a little by breaking it down.

1) Government says that the masses cannot afford rice (Shagari), petrol (Goodluck Jonathan) or gas (Bola Tinubu).

2) Government tells the private companies that are selling these things to sell them below cost price. So if the thing costs 5 naira, the company will sell it for 2 naira.

3) Government will promise to pay the balance of 3 naira to the company (this is subsidy).

4) The reality is that government cannot afford to pay these things for such a large population. Government always ends up owing the companies.

Government is owing electricity generating companies trillions. They can't afford to pay for gas, buy equipment and pay their workers.

Do you really think that Dangote would have sold his petrol below cost price based on a promise by government to pay? Government that is always owing??

5) And some companies engage in corruption. They don't produce anything, but they will demand subsidy payments from government.

Electricity generating companies need to buy gas, pay workers, buy and maintain equipment in order to generate electricity. If they are not generating electricity, then what are you transmitting, fresh air??

So abia state is not Nigeria too?

Sangoamadioha1:
Sorry for yourself. You see the other guy engaging me in a matured way but you are just being unnecessarily condescending.
I now know why it is the empty barrels that display unnecessary pride to cover their deficiencies.
Shift.

I return the energy you give. Go back and read your first post to me.

naptu2:
Dr Toks (Akpakomiza) @fimiletoks



https://x.com/i/status/2027336901468791203

I think policy is affecting Electricity generation more than price cap

Option 1
NLNG supplies LNG to power other countries. If Fed Government makes a policy that 10 percent of NLNG Gas supply must be used to supply power generating plants in Nigeria, you will see a difference .

Option 2. Ban payment of gas flaring fines and mandate gas flaring companies to build power plants and supply the gas they are flaring to the power plants to generate electricity and supply National grid.

Option 3. Fed Government should build power plants beside gas flaring companies and receive the gas at zero cost to the power plants since they were already being flared to the atmosphere

All Those Who Used Diabolical Means Of Selling NEPA Now DISCOS To Themselves and Their Political Leaders,
I have a' Tai Solarin Prayer'- For Una-
' May Your ROAD 🛣️ be Rough For Life '
•For The PDP and their Sympathetisers - Knew What They Were Doing.
-Today,as Tinubu Govt is Clearing NTrillion DEBT THAT INNOCENT NIGERIAS DID NOT INCURRED,
YET WE ARE BEING FORCED TO COLLECTIVELY PAY THE DEBT - THROUGH:
•GEMCO,
•DISCOS,
•TCN,etc.
As the 3- Bodies Above Have Nothing For the Masses.
Yet ,We are Withnesing More Darkness - Day and Night .
Why Are We So Corrupt In Nigeria?

Abee79:
Other countries are planning how to make humanoids and travel to Mars; Nigeria is still battling with darkness . . . it is well

The other countries don't subsidise their electricity (or if they do, it's for the really really poor), charge very high taxes at a point that if they brought it here to nigeria, there would be large protests, pay heavy duty fees for educaiton, and don't do renewed hope giveaways.

The result is a working country.

NIgeria, where you people want us to use oil revenue that isn't up to 100 billion dollars per annum to pay for the things you want us to do? Not possible, sadly.

demandtruth:
Every dick & harry wanna have a say in what they don't even know about.

Ask all the investors in the value chain, and they'll tell you the truth.

Transmission is the problem. This is where what is generated get loss.
It's totally inefficient!

TO fix the transmission system, you need money...which leads us back to...cost reflective tarrifs.

Also, if we want to have power for 24/7 for everyone on the grid, we need to generate and distribute...33000 mw daily. Installed capacity isn't up to 23000 MW (the optimists ) or 13000 MW (the pessimits).

Sangoamadioha1:
Was subsidy removed when Dangote started his refinery? You want to tell me that he started and invested so much based on promises by politicians.
If subsidy was still in place Dangote would still be doing his refinery business.

If subsidy was in place, Dangote would either
1.Sell most of his refinery product oversease (he already does sell some other refined product oversease eg jet fuel).
2.OR...run the refinery selling subsidised fuel, until it collapses due to subsidy induced losses.

When Nigeria's generation reached 5 thousand+ MGW was there any improvement reaching the masses In terms of power supply?

As the experts say, Nigeria needs 33000 mw for 24 hour power for those on the grid...as at 2023.

Djyucee1:
We have not tapped 2 percent of our gas reserve and yet we lack gas for power generation. Who cursed Nigeria abeg? To think of it , if there is abundance of gas now to generate electricity,evacuation ll be a problem due to poor grid

Now we are talking

These are the results of voting incompetent people into power..it's a pity

That is why Nigerians really need Peter Obi to solve all this problems

nairalanda1:
If subsidy was in place, Dangote would either
1.Sell most of his refinery product oversease (he already does sell some other refined product oversease eg jet fuel).
2.OR...run the refinery selling subsidised fuel, until it collapses due to subsidy induced losses.



As the experts say, Nigeria needs 33000 mw for 24 hour power for those on the grid...as at 2023.

My argument is that government cannot leave the masses to capitalist sharks without providing some sort of safety net.
Even purely capitalist nations provide some sort of subsidy either to the industry or directly to the citizens.
Nigerian government just want citizens to bear the full cost while there are no improvements in service delivery .

Na wetin me I sha know be this.

nedu666:
You remove fuel, energy, agric, education subsidy. But you are not creating jobs, not securing highways, not increasing income. What exactly is the usefulness of govt to Nigerians

If I don't supply you stable electricity in 2027, don't vote for me.
Tinubu has now formed Nigeria of one political party. Who will question him again? Country gone.

Sangoamadioha1:
My argument is that government cannot leave the masses to capitalist sharks without providing some sort of safety net.
Even purely capitalist nations provide some sort of subsidy either to the industry or directly to the citizens.
Nigerian government just want citizens to bear the full cost while there are no improvements in service delivery .

The purely capitalist nations pay for the safety net by high taxation for most of the populaiton, if not all.

Nigeria? 80% of Government revenue is based on revenue from 1.9 million bpd of crude. That's not enough for a nation of 230 million people...unless oil prices were higher than 150 dollars per barrel...for a sustained period of time.

nwirinedu:
This statement is flawed, what do they mean by price caps? What value are these so called monopolists bringing in to the sector?

Let them mention one critical investment in infrastructure they have done, how many high tension masts have they constructed in the last 10 years, how man substations have they constructed?

They have been enjoying subsidies and subventions from the FG via the CBN.

All they do is collect bills for services they never render, if the power sector was up to par Telcos would not be powering their base stations with generators, they even do these in state capitals.

The power sector needs full deregulation, we don't need cronies masquerading as oligopolies charging prices for zero services.

The sector only benefits fraudulent rent seekers who are only interested in value extraction not creation.

Shame on all of them, a den of thieves!

The country's production sector is suffering because of high cost of diesel and generators because we have a moribund power sector that has been playing with 4000mw since Obasanjo's time.

As for you solar freaks, tell me why Dangote and Innoson aren't using solar panels to power their factories.

It's expensive but it's something that dangote will still do later on.

Aso rock is already off Nigerian grid
Tell me how will they know that Nigeria is not having light

naptu2:
Mr man! You don't know anything!

OK, let me help you a little by breaking it down.

1) Government says that the masses cannot afford rice (Shagari), petrol (Goodluck Jonathan) or gas (Bola Tinubu).

2) Government tells the private companies that are selling these things to sell them below cost price. So if the thing costs 5 naira, the company will sell it for 2 naira.

3) Government will promise to pay the balance of 3 naira to the company (this is subsidy).

4) The reality is that government cannot afford to pay these things for such a large population. Government always ends up owing the companies.

Government is owing electricity generating companies trillions. They can't afford to pay for gas, buy equipment and pay their workers.

Do you really think that Dangote would have sold his petrol below cost price based on a promise by government to pay? Government that is always owing??

5) And some companies engage in corruption. They don't produce anything, but they will demand subsidy payments from government.

Electricity generating companies need to buy gas, pay workers, buy and maintain equipment in order to generate electricity. If they are not generating electricity, then what are you transmitting, fresh air??

Subsidy is not bad but the corruption in the system is the main problem.
Government are supposed to provide social safety nets for their citizens to protect the citizens.
The statutory work of the power ministry is the provide the infrastructure for the Discos to work but where the infrastructures are poor no amount the discos will charge, they will still provide poor services.
In essence, subsidy is not the problem but corruption and poor infrastructure.

nairalanda1:
The purely capitalist nations pay for the safety net by high taxation for most of the populaiton, if not all.

Nigeria? 80% of Government revenue is based on revenue from 1.9 million bpd of crude. That's not enough for a nation of 230 million people...unless oil prices were higher than 150 dollars per barrel...for a sustained period of time.

1.6 to 1.9 million barrels per day of crude oil sales is serious money but what do we have to show for it.
If the subsidy program is corruption free, I believe the government will be capable of running the program.
Corruption and wasteful spending is the bane of Nigeria's problem and not subsidy itself.
After all even with fuel subsidy removal we are even borrowing more than when subsidy was in place.