₦airaland Forum

https://www.nairaland.com/8625229/tinubu-urges-senators-amend-constitution

In response to advocating for State Police, mr President, National and State Assembly members, let’s push for REGIONAL POLICE instead of State Police

I feel the State Governors may not be politically matured yet to handle state police, this may be turned to political tools in their hands

My take since this state police discussion had been on front burner.

Let’s Advocate for REGIONAL POLICE instead.
1. The regional governors agree on the Regional HQ
2. Regional Police heads will be rotated among each states in the region
3. This aim is to quell perceived totalitarianism issue with state police.


PS: someone stated that Regional govt isn’t in our constitution.. fair enough, however I think our constitution can be amended to accommodate whatever will be good for the country


Cc: Mods front page pls

This in my view will be more ideal than state police

commoditiesnig:
https://www.nairaland.com/8625229/tinubu-urges-senators-amend-constitution

In response to advocating for State Police, mr President, National and State Assembly members, let’s push for REGIONAL POLICE instead of State Police

I feel the State Governors may not be politically matured yet to handle state police, this may be turned to political tools in their hands

My take since this state police discussion had been on front burner.

Let’s Advocate for REGIONAL POLICE instead.

Cc: Mods

There is no regional government so regional police makes no sense. Any organisation be it a company, residential estate or school have the right to form a security unit and they have been doing so not to talk of a whole tier of government. OAU had a security unit when I was there in the 90s. The only problem is they are not adequately armed and that is the problem that needs to be solved. Any security outfit should be adequately armed so far they are licensed security outfits

Some regions are so diverse in culture and large geographically that a regional police will not be very effective.

Plateau and Kwara state are in the same NC region,but there is little that connects them in terms of language and culture.

Having a South South regional police catering for Bayelsa and Cross River will not work.

Likewise, a South West regional police headquartered in Ibadan won't be effective in handling the different policing requirements of Lagos and Ondo State for example.

A State police made up of a majority of each state's residents will be more local and know their environment better.

We don’t need State Police. People tend to refer to countries like the USA as examples. Local police in the USA are the most useless in terms of policing. Remember the incident that sparked off the black lives matter protests. NYPD, LAPD all have problems. Same thing in Brazil where Federal Police has an overwhelming presence.
What we need is a hybrid arrangement. In terms of control, the federal government is allowed to appoint state commissioners of police after consulting the state Governor. If the the governor is not happy with the performance of the police commissioner he has the right to declare at statement of no confidence in the police commissioner which must lead to his replacement.
Funding must be provided by the three tiers of government. The state police commissioner budget is funded by the three tiers of government. The federal government may focus on personnel costs while the state and local government focus on capital expenditure. Like building rehabilitation of police stations, providing IT systems with the state, vehicles and other equipments.
The lower cadre of police officers should be residents of the state.
State Police is not a silver bullet.

lawani:
There is no regional government so regional police makes no sense. Any organisation be it a company, residential estate or school have the right to form a security unit and they have been doing so not to talk of a whole tier of government. OAU had a security unit when I was there in the 90s. The only problem is they are not adequately armed and that is the problem that needs to be solved. Any security outfit should be adequately armed so far they are licensed security outfits

Well noted

DeLaRue:
Some regions are so diverse in culture and large geographically that a regional police will not be very effective.

Plateau and Kwara state are in the same NC region,but there is little that connects them in terms of language and culture.

Having a South South regional police catering for Bayelsa and Cross River will not work.

Likewise, a South West regional police headquartered in Ibadan won't be effective in handling the different policing requirements of Lagos and Ondo State for example.

A State police made up of a majority of each state's residents will be more local and know their environment better.

Good assertion

Babanah:
We don’t need State Police. People tend to refer to countries like the USA as examples. Local police in the USA are the most useless in terms of policing. Remember the incident that sparked off the black lives matter protests. NYPD, LAPD all have problems. Same thing in Brazil where Federal Police has an overwhelming presence.
What we need is a hybrid arrangement. In terms of control, the federal government is allowed to appoint state commissioners of police after consulting the state Governor. If the the governor is not happy with the performance of the police commissioner he has the right to declare at statement of no confidence in the police commissioner which must lead to his replacement.
Funding must be provided by the three tiers of government. The state police commissioner budget is funded by the three tiers of government. The federal government may focus on personnel costs while the state and local government focus on capital expenditure. Like building rehabilitation of police stations, providing IT systems with the state, vehicles and other equipments.
The lower cadre of police officers should be residents of the state.
State Police is not a silver bullet.

The state already have well armed vigilante service......we may as well formalize their existence! Meanwhile we all know the feudal north has used the Nigerian police and even army to further their not so well hidden jihadi agenda! let us have a balance of coercive forces!

Regional Police is a very good idea.

Those claiming the states in a region may not have anything in common in terms of culture and language. Nonsense.

What do Federal police have in common now?

In the first place, we have too many states created to satisfy looters of allocations.

Any of these states can go rogue and start another war. Regional Police is a moderating influence.

The Police Chiefs can be rotated among the states in a region on specified number of years

commoditiesnig:
https://www.nairaland.com/8625229/tinubu-urges-senators-amend-constitution

In response to advocating for State Police, mr President, National and State Assembly members, let’s push for REGIONAL POLICE instead of State Police

I feel the State Governors may not be politically matured yet to handle state police, this may be turned to political tools in their hands

My take since this state police discussion had been on front burner.

Let’s Advocate for REGIONAL POLICE instead.

Cc: Mods

Regional police will die a natural death as there will be conflict on which governor calls the shot. There must be a chief security officer controlling them, which of the governors in the region will you give that power that will not cause issues?

Best to do is having state police. but maybe a month or 2 to any general election or statewide election, the Federal police takes over. and the state police commissioner start taking orders directly from Abuja and no more the governor.

State policing is better if proper clauses are properly and unambiguously inputted to prevent interference from political office holders and ensure effective policing!
There can be collaboration between states in terms of intelligence sharing..however,states should operate their own security as every state possess it's peculiarity!

ijayalolo:
Regional police will die a natural death as there will be conflict on which governor calls the shot. There must be a chief security officer controlling them, which of the governors in the region will you give that power that will not cause issues?

Best to do is having state police. but maybe a month or 2 to any general election or statewide election, the Federal police takes over. and the state police commissioner start taking orders directly from Abuja and no more the governor.

The moment a state policing is controlled by the governor,everyone in that state will start screaming for it to be removed!
State policing doesn't imply that it must be controlled by the governor!
On a norm,no political office holders should be in charge of policing!

bentenny:
State policing is better if proper clauses are properly and unambiguously inputted to prevent interference from political office holders and ensure effective policing!
There can be collaboration between states in terms of intelligence sharing..however,states should operate their own security as every state possess it's peculiarity!

Which clauses are in place to prevent the current federal police from political interference? The President appoints the IGP and can fire him/her at will. Where in the world is the police independent of the executive arm of government? The need for State police in Nigeria is now critical and urgent. No further delay is required.

bentenny:
The moment a state policing is controlled by the governor,everyone in that state will start screaming for it to be removed!
State policing doesn't imply that it must be controlled by the governor!
On a norm,no political office holders should be in charge of policing!

In democracy, police is just an extension of the executive, controlled by either the President or the governor, if not that is a military rule.

Note: The job of the Executive in a democracy is to enforce the law, and police is one of its branches it uses to do that

Federal police MUST be controlled by the president, state police MUST be controlled by the governor, that's what democracy says.

There is always a trade-off in every policy of the government. It is about choosing the "lesser evil"

is interesting

ijayalolo:
In democracy, police is just an extension of the executive, controlled by either the President or the governor, if not that is a military rule.

Note: The job of the Executive in a democracy is to enforce the law, and police is one of its branches it uses to do that

Federal police MUST be controlled by the president, state police MUST be controlled by the governor, that's what democracy says.

There is always a trade-off in every policy of the government. It is about choosing the "lesser evil"

In a democratic setup which is practiced by the US and germany,there are clauses in the police laws that empowers the IGP or state commissioner not to obey directives from the president or state governor respectively esp if such directive is seen as undemocratic and against the constitutional right of citizens!
The question is do we have such laws in our constitution?
If that's not the case,then the setting up of state policing without any unambiguous clauses that impedes the excessiveness of the governor is a recipe for disaster.

IkeOnyia:
Which clauses are in place to prevent the current federal police from political interference? The President appoints the IGP and can fire him/her at will. Where in the world is the police independent of the executive arm of government? The need for State police in Nigeria is now critical and urgent. No further delay is required.

Seems you didn't understand my stance!
I am fully in support of state policing only if there are adequate clauses that will impede the excessiveness of the state governors even if they are the ones that may appoint them!
In US which we copy our system of governance from, there are laws that impede the federal and state police from obeying the directive of the president and state governor respectively if such directives are undemocratic or go against the rights of citizens!
State policing structure without the proper framework to ensure the independence and effectiveness of the police is a recipe for disaster!

bentenny:
In a democratic setup which is practiced by the US and germany,there are clauses in the police laws that empowers the IGP or state commissioner not to obey directives from the president or state governor respectively esp if such directive is seen as undemocratic and against the constitutional right of citizens!
The question is do we have such laws in our constitution?
If that's not the case,then the setting up of state policing without any unambiguous clauses that impedes the excessiveness of the governor is a
recipe for disaster.

Bros which of the USA are you talking about? We are trying to inform you in case you didn't know, but this doubling down from you is beginning to sound somehow. If trump tells an FBI agent to shoot you now, he will do it immediately, if he can't then he tenders his resignation. Just to be clear, can you quote which part of the US or Germany constitution that says Ordinary police can disobey the president when even the highest ranking General will be jailed if he dared disobey the president.

In all Democracies of the world there is nothing like clause in any police, why didn't you say there is clause in the Army too that will say Chief of Defence can disobey the President's order.

Don't let the uniform the police is wearing confuse you, it is just an ordinary branch of the executive that helps to enforce the law.

Legislature Makes law through the House of assemblies
Judiciary interprets the law through the various courts and Judges
The executive enforces the law. The chief executive officer is the president for the country and the governor for the state.

googi:
Regional Police is a very good idea.

Those claiming the states in a region may not have anything in common in terms of culture and language. Nonsense.

What do Federal police have in common now?

In the first place, we have too many states created to satisfy looters of allocations.

Any of these states can go rogue and start another war. Regional Police is a moderating influence.

The Police Chiefs can be rotated among the states in a region on specified number of years

Yoruba may decide to never leave power again unless Nigeria breaks up. Would you still not like state police? Who do you think you are to be saying a state with millions of people and a governor should not have a well armed police force? Any tier of government should be able to have a police force. If you have a regional police do you have regional government that it will report to? You can have a university police because the university has an administration with leadership.

bentenny:
The moment a state policing is controlled by the governor,everyone in that state will start screaming for it to be removed!
State policing doesn't imply that it must be controlled by the governor!
On a norm,no political office holders should be in charge of policing!

Yes the governor will control it for as long he or she is leader. What is wrong with that? The governor can be removed anytime and the policemen are civil servants. Apart from police any responsible person whose background has been checked should be able to bear arms. Local governments too should be able to have police. Private security firms that are licensed should freely bear arms so that people can hire them. What is wrong with all that?

Good idea but seem to complicated for a growing democracy like Nigeria

If I could understand you, are you saying Local Govt Police may be a viable solution?

Babanah:
We don’t need State Police. People tend to refer to countries like the USA as examples. Local police in the USA are the most useless in terms of policing. Remember the incident that sparked off the black lives matter protests. NYPD, LAPD all have problems. Same thing in Brazil where Federal Police has an overwhelming presence.
What we need is a hybrid arrangement. In terms of control, the federal government is allowed to appoint state commissioners of police after consulting the state Governor. If the the governor is not happy with the performance of the police commissioner he has the right to declare at statement of no confidence in the police commissioner which must lead to his replacement.
Funding must be provided by the three tiers of government. The state police commissioner budget is funded by the three tiers of government. The federal government may focus on personnel costs while the state and local government focus on capital expenditure. Like building rehabilitation of police stations, providing IT systems with the state, vehicles and other equipments.
The lower cadre of police officers should be residents of the state.
State Police is not a silver bullet.

Exactly! Very brilliant submission. Regional police is the best.. keep all states in region in better check

Also on the bolded very good idea

googi:
Regional Police is a very good idea.

Those claiming the states in a region may not have anything in common in terms of culture and language. Nonsense.

What do Federal police have in common now?

In the first place, we have too many states created to satisfy looters of allocations.

Any of these states can go rogue and start another war. Regional Police is a moderating influence.

The Police Chiefs can be rotated among the states in a region on specified number of years

lawani:
Yes the governor will control it for as long he or she is leader. What is wrong with that? The governor can be removed anytime and the policemen are civil servants. Apart from police any responsible person whose background has been checked should be able to bear arms. Local governments too should be able to have police. Private security firms that are licensed should freely bear arms so that people can hire them. What is wrong with all that?

In a democratic setup,governors have 'limited' control over the police as a measure to curb their excessiveness and high-handedness!
There is also the aspect of the legislative and judicary operating as an oversight on the executive with the inclusion of important clauses that impedes the governor from having unlimited access to the state police!
If a state governor is given 100% over the police,it's will most likely be used as a tool to attack political opponents and ensure the rights of citizens are stifled!
The senate must draft state police g in such a way that the governor only has limited powers not total access!

Good submission in your 2nd paragraph..

However I don’t agree with your first paragraph. As someone stated, the states rotate leadership of the central regional police head maybe yearly. But regional HQ will be decided by all governors in the region.

Not a big deal my brother.

ijayalolo:
Regional police will die a natural death as there will be conflict on which governor calls the shot. There must be a chief security officer controlling them, which of the governors in the region will you give that power that will not cause issues?

Best to do is having state police. but maybe a month or 2 to any general election or statewide election, the Federal police takes over. and the state police commissioner start taking orders directly from Abuja and no more the governor.

bentenny:
In a democratic setup,governors have 'limited' control over the police as a measure to curb their excessiveness and high-handedness!
There is also the aspect of the legislative and judicary operating as an oversight on the executive with the inclusion of important clauses that impedes the governor from having unlimited access to the state police!
If a state governor is given 100% over the police,it's will most likely be used as a tool to attack political opponents and ensure the rights of citizens are stifled!
The senate must draft state police g in such a way that the governor only has limited powers not total access!

The President, Governor, LG chairmen and even university VCs should have the same control over the police that is under them. Private security firms should also bear arms as well as responsible adult citizens after a background check. The job of the police is to provide security and if the President is not using the police against his opponents then a governor or LG chairman can't. President Jonathan lost elections despite controlling the police

State police is good BUT are our state governors politically mature to handle and manage it, that’s the issue. Absolutely power corrupts absolutely!

I only trust just handful governors to effectively handle/manage state police.

bentenny:
State policing is better if proper clauses are properly and unambiguously inputted to prevent interference from political office holders and ensure effective policing!
There can be collaboration between states in terms of intelligence sharing..however,states should operate their own security as every state possess its peculiarity!

bentenny:
The moment a state policing is controlled by the governor,everyone in that state will start screaming for it to be removed!
State policing doesn't imply that it must be controlled by the governor!
On a norm,no political office holders should be in charge of policing!

Absolutely spot on.. well said

ijayalolo:
Bros which of the USA are you talking about? We are trying to inform you in case you didn't know, but this doubling down from you is beginning to sound somehow. If trump tells an FBI agent to shoot you now, he will do it immediately, if he can't then he tenders his resignation. Just to be clear, can you quote which part of the US or Germany constitution that says Ordinary police can disobey the president when even the highest ranking General will be jailed if he dared disobey the president.

In all Democracies of the world there is nothing like clause in any police, why didn't you say there is clause in the Army too that will say Chief of Defence can disobey the President's order.

Don't let the uniform the police is wearing confuse you, it is just an ordinary branch of the executive that helps to enforce the law.

Legislature Makes law through the House of assemblies
Judiciary interprets the law through the various courts and Judges
The executive enforces the law. The chief executive officer is the president for the country and the governor for the state.

You obviously seem to not know that there are limitations to the powers of the president on the federal policing agencies esp FBI!
I suggest you do more research esp the post Watergate reforms before misinforming people here!

bentenny:
In a democratic setup,governors have 'limited' control over the police as a measure to curb their excessiveness and high-handedness!
There is also the aspect of the legislative and judicary operating as an oversight on the executive with the inclusion of important clauses that impedes the governor from having unlimited access to the state police!
If a state governor is given 100% over the police,it's will most likely be used as a tool to attack political opponents and ensure the rights of citizens are stifled!
The senate must draft state police g in such a way that the governor only has limited powers not total access!

This is reservation of many people, that state police could be used as a tool against political opponents.

I agree that the Senate has a big role to play in enacting laws to check the governors

commoditiesnig:
State police is good BUT are our state governors politically mature to handle and manage it, that’s the issue. Absolutely power corrupts absolutely!

I only trust just handful governors to effectively handle/manage state police.

Based on research esp on the US and germany template,the president and state governors control are only limited to selection and appointment of the heads eg FBI but their powers are mostly limited to curb their rascality and it will be unwise to grant state governors unlimited access to the policing structure as this will be a recipe for disaster!

I think it’s premature to start comparing Nigeria system to US advanced democracy. Let’s work a way to make either regional or state police work effectively to suit our country

US police system shouldn’t be our benchmark for now

bentenny:
You obviously seem to not know that there are limitations to the powers of the president on the federal policing agencies esp FBI!
I suggest you do more research esp the post Watergate reforms before misinforming people here!

lawani:
The President, Governor, LG chairmen and even university VCs should have the same control over the police that is under them. Private security firms should also bear arms as well as responsible adult citizens after a background check. The job of the police is to provide security and if the President is not using the police against his opponents then a governor or LG chairman can't. President Jonathan lost elections despite controlling the police

Are you serious with this statement of yours?
The presidency uses security operatives at will to carry out their rascality on political opponents!
A simple example is how EFCC treated former governor yahaya bello and Nasir elrufai!
Both may have questions to answer but one is free because he is loyal to the president but another is in custody because he is an opponent!
Yes GEJ could have but he refused but that doesn't mean another will not use it at their will!
This is why there should be laws to limit the powers of governors or president on policing in order to curb their excessiveness!