₦airaland Forum

gidgiddy:
No military rule allows people to enjoy the same powers they had in democracy. Military rule will always take powers and centralised things, thats how they operate. But thats not the argument

The argument is that you people said Ironsi abolished the 4 Regions Nigeria had. We are glad you guys now realise it was Gowon that did that when he created 12 states

Deadlytruth:
Go and read Ironsi's broadcast very thoroughly and you will see where he said that he himself ran a federal military government from January to May 24 before he decided to convert the structure to National Military Government. So it is a lie that the military cannot operate a decentralized system.
Also, if decentralization is not possible with a military administration, then why did Ojukwu propose confederacy at Aburi and stood by it so strongly that he declared war on Nigeria when it appeared to him that Gowon was not agreeing with him about it? Recall that confederacy which Ojukwu proposed in Aburi as a military officer was actually an extremely decentralized system to be headed by the Supreme Military Council which itself was a military administration. So forget all these your primary school stories that the military does not operate a decentralized system.

gidgiddy:
All of this is not the argument. The argument is that you people said Ironsi abolished the 4 Regions Nigeria had

Deadlytruth:
Yes he abolished the regions and changed then to groups of provinces.

gidgiddy:
All of this is not the argument. The argument is that you people said Ironsi abolished the 4 Regions Nigeria had

T9ksy:
Haba! Why do you keep arguing like a blind man?

Nobody said anything rather Ironsi himself said it in his national broadcast that, "all the regions are NOW abolished and are to be replaced with a group of provinces".

gidgiddy:
Ironsi said it in broadcast yet Ironsi had 4 Military Governors of 4 Regions the day Ironsi died? Or do you people not know that Lt Col Fajuyi was Military Governor of the Western Region the day he was killed alongside Ironsi? The same Western Region you people say Ironsi abolished with a Broadcast.

T9ksy:
No, Fajuyi was not the governor of the western region at the time of his death rather he was the governor of the western groups of Provinces as per his boss, Ironsi's decree 34 of May 1966. He had no autonomy over this groups of provinces as he would have wanted because Ironsi, his oga patapata at the top determines how he, Fajuyi should govern these group of provinces through the civil services that has now being centralised by Ironsi.

gidgiddy:
Each Region was a group of provinces same as each State into today's Nigeria is nothing but a group of Local governments. If I choose to call Anambra State 'Anambra group of Local Governments', does not change the fact that Anambra state is still there as an administrative unit. The terminology did not make Anambra disappear. So if Ironsi's administration chose to call the Western Region, the Western group of provinces, thats what they were anyway.

It was military rule, not democracy. In military rule, you take orders from your boss. How do you people expect military rule to be democratic? Are you people aware that Ironsi didn't take away resource control from the 4 Regions? That each Region controlled it's resources under Ironsi? Are you people aware that after Gowon came in, he abolished the 4 Regions with Decree 14, created 12 new states to replace them, then he removed resource control with Decree 15?

I laugh at peoples ignorance

Glistinin:
He abolished what is still standing till his death? There's no argument anyone will bring up that will make any meaning in this case.

gidgiddy:
Each Region was a group of provinces same as each State into today's Nigeria is nothing but a group of Local governments. If I choose to call Anambra State 'Anambra group of Local Governments', does not change the fact that Anambra state is still there as an administrative unit. The terminology did not make Anambra disappear. So if Ironsi's administration chose to call the Western Region, the Western group of provinces, thats what they were anyway.


It was military rule, not democracy. In military rule, you take orders from your boss. How do you people expect military rule to be democratic? Are you people aware that Ironsi didn't take away resource control from the 4 Regions? That each Region controlled it's resources under Ironsi? Are you people aware that after Gowon came in, he abolished the 4 Regions with Decree 14, created 12 new states to replace them, then he removed resource control with Decree 15?

I laugh at peoples ignorance

Deadlytruth:
You are being disingenuous. The crisis which Aguiyi Ironsi claimed informed his decision to take over government with the view of finding solution to was remotely caused by Tafawa Balewa's abuse of power which was his illegal and unconstitutional intervention in the purely internal affairs of the Western Region. Please recall that the whole trouble actually started when Tafawa Balewa illegally declared a state of emergency in pursuit of political advantage of his NPC-NCNC coalition to truncate Akintola's impeachment proceedings which was the desire of an overwhelming majority of the Western Region House of Assembly members. Tafawa Balewa's interference sparked off a cascade of events which culminated in the ill-advised January 15 1966 coup that only added salt to injury and threw the entire country into further chaos. Now, common sense dictated that any military man who took over power with a genuine intention to correct the system and rescue the nation should have removed more powers from the center at least to forestall Balewa's kind of illegal interference in any regions purely internal political affairs. But what did Ironsi do? He promulgated decrees which even further strengthened the center for greater abuses of power by future rulers. That means Ironsi didn't really have any intention to correct the structural ills of the system but to pursue a totally different agenda obviously for the benefit of his Igbo race.

Kewekubosineh:
Hmmmm

Your narrative is full of innuendos and mischief. Aguiyi ironsi meant well for the country but centrifugal forces set in and put paid his ambition to correct the ills that led to the putsch.

But a close look at Nigeria's political circuit indicates same flaws that led to 1966 putsch. Misrule and corruption still germane in the system. Coupled with croynism, grovelling bigotry and nepotism in the conduct of public affairs.

The only rational conclusion is systemic and revolutionary fervour to remove those causing the problems.

Deadlytruth:
In a democracy the only correct way to remove those perceived to be causing problems is for the self assumed messiah to resign from either the public or civil service, contest for office with convincing campaign of how he can correct the systemic flaws, and then on getting to office actually correct those flaws through constitutionally stipulated methods. Anything short of that snacks of ulterior motive. At the point of being decorated as the Supreme Military Commander of the Nigerian military, Ironsi solemnly swore to uphold and defend the constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria at all times and under all circumstances. Did the constitution he swore to defend make provision for military take over of power from civilians? A big NO.
What was legally needful of Ironsi at that critical point in time was to save democracy which the January Coupists had already attempted to assail and destroy. Hence Ironsi was only supposed to court-martial the coupists, and get them face firing squad, then swear in Alhaji Dipcharima whom the parliament threw up as replacement for the slain Tafawa Balewa, replace the slain premiers with their deputies and returned to the barracks honorably as a career military man. If Ironsi had taken this other route of honour and immediate restoration of democracy, do you in all honesty think that the counter coup would have ever happened talkless of the Northern pogroms and the resultant avoidable civil war which took millions of innocent lives? We should be able to look at the larger pictures of every issue we debate rather than justify missteps of those saddled with positions of high responsibilities.

Deadlytruth:
In a democracy the only correct way to remove those perceived to be causing problems is for the self assumed messiah to resign from either the public or civil service, contest for office with convincing campaign of how he can correct the systemic flaws, and then on getting to office actually correct those flaws through constitutionally stipulated methods. Anything short of that snacks of ulterior motive. At the point of being decorated as the Supreme Military Commander of the Nigerian military, Ironsi solemnly swore to uphold and defend the constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria at all times and under all circumstances. Did the constitution he swore to defend make provision for military take over of power from civilians? A big NO.
What was legally needful of Ironsi at that critical point in time was to save democracy which the January Coupists had already attempted to assail and destroy. Hence Ironsi was only supposed to court-martial the coupists, and get them face firing squad, then swear in Alhaji Dipcharima whom the parliament threw up as replacement for the slain Tafawa Balewa, replace the slain premiers with their deputies and returned to the barracks honorably as a career military man. If Ironsi had taken this other route of honour and immediate restoration of democracy, do you in all honesty think that the counter coup would have ever happened talkless of the Northern pogroms and the resultant avoidable civil war which took millions of innocent lives? We should be able to look at the larger pictures of every issue we debate rather than justify missteps of those saddled with positions of high responsibilities.

Deadlytruth:
Our current six geopolitical regions are groups of states. Now does that mean we are currently practising regional system cum true federalism and resource control?

T9ksy:
So, Ironsi did not take away resources control even though he centralised the Civil services, yeah.
How the hell are you expected to take control of your regional natural resouces if your civil services have been unified?
Or, is there another arm of govt that is in control of regional natural resources apart from the civil services?
That's the whole idea behind Ironsi Unification Decree. We are now One united/unified country!! No more autonomy!!!

The joke is on you, matey.

gidgiddy:
Were the civil service of any of the Regions sent out of Nigeria? They were still in their respective Regions under Ironsi doing their job. The point you guys failed to grasp is that Ironsi did not change the revenue sharing formula agreed at independence. Every Region still got the bulk of what they generated, and remitted the percentage agreed to federal government, as it was before Ironsi. So the civil service being unified or not had no bearing

Go and Google Gowons decree 15 and learn how Gowon removed resource control and changed the revenue sharing formula so that the Federal Government would control everything

gidgiddy:
The current constitution of Nigeria does not recognise anything called "geopolitical zones" or Regions, they dont exist except on paper

Kewekubosineh:
You tried a lot to dissect the problems which led to the civil war.

Certainly, you are knowledgeable of Nigerian history and aftermath of the war.

We pray we don't go through that trajectory again. Otherwise, we shall have no place to bury our sorrows.

Salute 👏

lawani:
Ironsi seizing power when there were still elected people in the parliament was in itself a coup. No other definition for what he did as there was still the parliament which he disbanded. Nzeogwu and co started the coup but it was concluded by Ironsi. There was no other way to answer him except via another coup and since the second coup didn't succeed in the East then the civil war was inevitable

gidgiddy:
Were the civil service of any of the Regions sent out of Nigeria? They were still in their respective Regions under Ironsi doing their job. The point you guys failed to grasp is that Ironsi did not change the revenue sharing formula agreed at independence. Every Region still got the bulk of what they generated, and remitted the percentage agreed to federal government, as it was before Ironsi. So the civil service being unified or not had no bearing

Go and Google Gowons decree 15 and learn how Gowon removed resource control and changed the revenue sharing formula so that the Federal Government would control everything

Deadlytruth:
Thanks. This is why I keep saying that Ironsi remains the worst thing to ever happen to Nigeria. The failure of Nigeria rests on him. Here was a man who had a very rare opportunity to write his name in gold in the history of Nigeria at a very critical moment in the life of the young nation but his greed and quest for illegal power took the better part of him and he failed his generation as well as future generations. Some of his appologists say he took over power illegally and tampered with a sovereign people's constitution because he wanted to unify Nigeria whereas the most basic ingredient needed to calm frayed nerves and genuinely unify the country was to simply court-martial and kill the January 15 coupists and then give power back to the parliament, and that would have been all. But rather than take these very simple steps he started gyrating all over the country in the name of visiting traditional rulers and preaching peace as if the political crisis rocking the country had anything to do with disagreement among traditional rulers. Honestly Ironsi was a dumb and unintelligent army GOC.

Deadlytruth:
Gowon's decree actually restored the revenue distribution formula. The part of the decree which your likes deliberately misinterprete as Gowon changing the revenue sharing formula is the part that has to do with the distributable pool which itself was originally a part of the Independence Constitution. That distributable pool was the 20% which all the former regions used to contribute for emergency hence it was different from the 50% which the regions retained back in their own individual cofers to develop themselves. So Gowon only restored that distributable pool and stated it in the margin of the relevant page in that gazzete of his. I therefore challenge you to show us Ironsi's own gazzete so that we can see if the distributable pool and the 50% retention to the regions or his groups of provinces still remained.

lawani:
Power should not even have ended up with him for him to be trying the coupists. It should have been the Democratic government trying the coupists. The fact he became head of state just proves he was a coup plotter himself

gidgiddy:
Oh I see. Gowon abolished the 4 Regions, created 12 new states, changed the revenue sharing formula, thereby altering the structure of Nigeria

But you people's problem is Ironsi's decree 34 that was about the civil service? Laughter won't kill me

gidgiddy:
Oh I see. Gowon abolished the 4 Regions, created 12 new states, changed the revenue sharing formula, thereby altering the structure of Nigeria

But you people's problem is Ironsi's decree 34 that was about the civil service? Laughter won't kill me

Deadlytruth:
Gowon abolished Ironsi's four groups of provinces and began to change them back to their original regional status. He was still in the process when the Aburi Summit was convened and during the summit Ojukwu proposed an extremely decentralized structure which Gowon agreed to with him. But on return to Nigeria, majority of the duly elected political leaders who were not consulted or carried along on the Aburi agreement rejected that extremely decentralized structure and rightly advised Gowon to throw it into the dustbin. So Gowon did as they advised. This angered Ojukwu who then declared war on Nigeria. To protect Nigeria from Ojukwu's war declaration, Gowon had to halt his previous attempt to change Ironsi's four groups of provinces back to the original regions, so Gowon regrouped Ironsi's provinces into twelve states and Ojukwu's failure was sealed.

Deadlytruth:
You have been given evidences that Ironsi abolished the regions and set up groups of provinces in their place, but you keep on pretending not to see the evidences. Well that is your cup of tea.

gidgiddy:
The Regions were always a group of provinces same as a State in todays Nigeria is nothing but a group local government areas. The Eastern Region was made up of 20 provinces such as Ogoja Province, Enugu provinces, Yenagoa province etc. Group of provinces was even more accurate in describing the Regions. Below is your own evidence of how Gowon abolished the 4 Regions Nigeria had and replaced them with 12 states, using decree 14. Then decree 15 that ended resource control and and revenue sharing formula agreed at independence(section 141 and section 164 of the constitution)

Now try your best to blame Ironsi for what Gowon did, you know Gowon is a Northerner

Deadlytruth:
If the regions were groups of provinces, then why did Ironsi change their names officially from regions to groups of provinces? Why not just leave their names the way he met them?

I have already given explanations on the gazzete you attached above. The ball is now in your court to show us Ironsi's gazzete so that we can juxtapose it with this Gowon s own you are always quick to upload, and then see who tampered with the revenue distribution formula with respect to the original independence constitution.
The Distributable pool account is the account which all regions pay just 20% of their revenue into as savings for future emergency and that is why, as you can see above, the revenue is paid back to them from the center. The main 50% which the regions retain has no central pool because they don't even pay it to the center at all in the first instance, and that is why you can't see anything about it in Gowon's gazzete that you uploaded above.
Until you upload that of Ironsi no genuine truth seeker will take you seriously.

Christistruth03:
The Original Broadcast from Ironsi abolishing the Regions is in this Audio .

Start listening from 28 minutes to Gen Ironsi.

He is abolishing the Regions with his full chest!!!!!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dYKm_KIJ2s

The Broadcaster is trying to defend Ojukwu.
There is no evidence anywhere Ojukwu opposed the unification decree until after the Northerners seized power after the Northern Coup.


The Author of this thread has already been corrected many times before on this issue