₦airaland Forum

Following from your comments here -

https://www.nairaland.com/8621001/lordreed-revisiting-simulation-reality/2#138721399

I would like to address the aspects of Christian doctrine which I say are absurd and even repugnant.

Let me start with your last comments -

tctrills:
So are you saying that the sacrifice of Christ was unjust to Him or unjust to mankind?

+
My position is that the death of Jesus of Nazareth can by no means serve as a propitiatory sacrifice for anyone's sins under divine justice. Scripture itself is clear when it says that God is not mocked, for whatsoever a man sows the same shall he reap - Galatians 6:7.

This is a clear enunciation of the principle of Karma. And so long as this principle holds true it will remain absurd and contradictory for one person to bear the sins of another. Such a scenario would refute the justice of God.

Now, this is clearly your opinion and you adapted this opinion because of your dislike for the religion.

+
This is upside down. I do not adopt the opinion because I dislike the religion. I dislike the religion because of teachings like that within it.

First, Jesus Christ's sacrifice was a willing sacrifice because of His love for us

+
This is highly contestable because in Gethsemane, Jesus ardently prayed for the cup to pass over his head if it were possible.

Secondly, in nature, it's very common to seen the actions of one having consequences for many.

+
Of course, but this is entirely different from the matter of spiritual consequences for individual actions. Only you can bear the spiritual consequences of your actions.

Third, you are looking at death from a limited and narrow angle. This is what Jesus Christ said about His death.
No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again.

+
Why then did he plead with the father for the cup to pass over his head, saying "nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." -

"And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." - Matthew 26:39.

It seems you are just vigorously searching for a reason to fault Christianity.

+
I contest the virgin birth, the idea of the propitiatory sacrifice for remission of sins, the deity of Christ and the doctrine of the Trinity.
I accept the elevated teachings of Christ on love, growth, detachment from the world and forgiveness.

Now if the wages of sin is death, it would have been unjust if that sin is forgiven without the wages paid? So you seem to have it completely mixed up.

Jesus Christ's sacrifice showed 2 things.
1. God's Justice in that the wages of sin was fully paid.
2. God's mercy in that through the atonement of Christ all mankind can be saved.

+
How come animals die. Have they also sinned.

DeepSight:
Following from your comments here -

https://www.nairaland.com/8621001/lordreed-revisiting-simulation-reality/2#138721399

I would like to address the aspects of Christian doctrine which I say are absurd and even repugnant.

Let me start with your last comments -


+
My position is that the death of Jesus of Nazareth can by no means serve as a propitiatory sacrifice for anyone's sins under divine justice. Scripture itself is clear when it says that God is not mocked, for whatsoever a man sows the same shall he reap - Galatians 6:7.

This is a clear enunciation of the principle of Karma. And so long as this principle holds true it will remain absurd and contradictory for one person to bear the sins of another. Such a scenario would refute the justice of God.


+
This is upside down. I do not adopt the opinion because I dislike the religion. I dislike the religion because of teachings like that within it.


+
This is highly contestable because in Gethsemane, Jesus ardently prayed for the cup to pass over his head if it were possible.


+
Of course, but this is entirely different from the matter of spiritual consequences for individual actions. Only you can bear the spiritual consequences of your actions.


+
Why then did he plead with the father for the cup to pass over his head, saying "nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." -

"And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." - Matthew 26:39.


+
I contest the virgin birth, the idea of the propitiatory sacrifice for remission of sins, the deity of Christ and the doctrine of the Trinity.
I accept the elevated teachings of Christ on love, growth, detachment from the world and forgiveness.


+
How come animals die. Have they also sinned.

Since you accept the teachings of Christ, why do humans die and what is the solution to death?

DeepSight:
Following from your comments here -

https://www.nairaland.com/8621001/lordreed-revisiting-simulation-reality/2#138721399

I would like to address the aspects of Christian doctrine which I say are absurd and even repugnant.

Let me start with your last comments -


+
My position is that the death of Jesus of Nazareth can by no means serve as a propitiatory sacrifice for anyone's sins under divine justice. Scripture itself is clear when it says that God is not mocked, for whatsoever a man sows the same shall he reap - Galatians 6:7.

This is a clear enunciation of the principle of Karma. And so long as this principle holds true it will remain absurd and contradictory for one person to bear the sins of another. Such a scenario would refute the justice of God.


+
This is upside down. I do not adopt the opinion because I dislike the religion. I dislike the religion because of teachings like that within it.


+
This is highly contestable because in Gethsemane, Jesus ardently prayed for the cup to pass over his head if it were possible.


+
Of course, but this is entirely different from the matter of spiritual consequences for individual actions. Only you can bear the spiritual consequences of your actions.


+
Why then did he plead with the father for the cup to pass over his head, saying "nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." -

"And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." - Matthew 26:39.


+
I contest the virgin birth, the idea of the propitiatory sacrifice for remission of sins, the deity of Christ and the doctrine of the Trinity.
I accept the elevated teachings of Christ on love, growth, detachment from the world and forgiveness.


+
How come animals die. Have they also sinned.

I would address a few things and hopefully you will get clarity on the rest.
When the bible says the wages of sin is death, it was only refering to man. So there is no need to bring up animals. Also, when the battery in your phone dies, it's not because of sin.

Good you brought up Galatians 6:7.to show the Justice of God, we reap what we sow hence we reap punishment when we sow sin but then, did you consider what happens when we sow repentance? We reap forgiveness all thanks to the mercy of Christ.

Now let's move on. You claim that only you can bear the spiritual consequences of your actions and that's mostly true when you don't repent. When we repent we no longer bear that consequence. We are forgiven because the price has been paid.

Lastly you make the claim that Jesus was not a willing sacrifice because He pray for the cup to pass by. Well that's being very unfair to Him and the bible.
Was He in pain? Yes
Did He wish the pain to end? Yes
Was He a willing sacrifice? Yes
All 3 are correct.
A friend of mine was once bitten by a snake on his farm in a village.
The villagers applied a very painful treatment to the bite.
Was my friend in pain? Yes
Did he wish the pain to cease? Yes.
Did he willingly allow himself to be treated? Yes.
So taking that verse and claiming Christ was not a willing sacrifice is unfair to the rest of the bible.
Ephesians 5:2: "...just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God".

DeepSight:
✓ Following from your comments here -
I would like to address the aspects of Christian doctrine which I say are absurd and even repugnant.
Let me start with your last comments -
+My position is that the death of Jesus of Nazareth can by no means serve as a propitiatory sacrifice for anyone's sins under divine justice. Scripture itself is clear when it says that God is not mocked, for whatsoever a man sows the same shall he reap - Galatians 6:7.
✓ This is a clear enunciation of the principle of Karma. And so long as this principle holds true it will remain absurd and contradictory for one person to bear the sins of another. Such a scenario would refute the justice of God.
✓ This is upside down. I do not adopt the opinion because I dislike the religion. I dislike the religion because of teachings like that within it.
✓ This is highly contestable because in Gethsemane, Jesus ardently prayed for the cup to pass over his head if it were possible.
✓ Of course, but this is entirely different from the matter of spiritual consequences for individual actions. Only you can bear the spiritual consequences of your actions.
✓ Why then did he plead with the father for the cup to pass over his head, saying "nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." ✓ I contest the virgin birth, the idea of the propitiatory sacrifice for remission of sins, the deity of Christ and the doctrine of the Trinity. I accept the elevated teachings of Christ on love, growth, detachment from the world and forgiveness.
✓ How come animals die. Have they also sinned.

1. Not trying to hold brief for the other side of this. I noticed several problems with your claims and felt to pose a correction before this goes on further.

1. Galatians, a letter that is attributed to the man Paul, is not Scripture. Rather, what Jesus Christ of Israel Himself pointed out that His Word is in support of are the books of the Law and the Prophets. Paul, as we all know was not a prophet as explained in Deuteronomy and Jesus Christ of Israel never asserted that His followers were by any means Prophets according to the old tradition. 🥱🥱

2. This supposition that Karma is biblical is wrong given that the Jesus Christ of Israel, whose Law and the Kingdom of God seem to establish the general context of the statement you quote made abundantly clear that to be reaped would not take place in this life but in the here after. Karma, on the other hand is said to impact future in the current life or subsequent rebirths into life on earth. 🥱🥱

Karma, originating as an ancient Indian concept meaning "action" or "deed," is the universal law of cause and effect, where intentional actions (thoughts, words, deeds) influence a being's future and subsequent rebirths. Good intentions/acts yield positive outcomes (good karma), while bad ones yield negative, impacting one's current or future

3. You dislike the religion yet what you post are essentially doctrines taken from the same religion? How come? Seems more like you prefer some doctrines/denominations over others. 😏😏

4. Again , this isn't an attempt to hold brief for Christianity or any of its over 46000 delusions regarding the content of the book. But, according to the story, the cup of God's wrath which he ardently prayed for was allowed to come upon him still as he died a cursed death for sins he did not commit. And there is no record of him being reborn after that. How is any of that Karmic? 🥱🥱

Anyways, Jesus Christ of Israel is actually recorded to have said in the Gospels that He willing laid down His life in order to gain Glory for Himself - John 10 and John 17. So, His prayer in Gethsemane was not a cry for Karma to be upheld, but just maybe, a cry for the Will of His Father to be upheld even in that very situation above all else? Just as He is recorded to have prayed. 🥱🥱

5. What spiritual consequences? I won't even bother with such nonsense! 🥱😏

6. Well, the cup of God's wrath meant he was marked as sinful and unholy -- cursed by the Law of Moses, the same Law He spent his entire life abiding by. As a human, surely one could see how undesired such a thought would be. That to me is the simple way to analyze what happened at Gethsemane. 🥱🥱

7. So, much like the numerous other denominations that comprise the religion of Christianity (Islam included) , you cherry pick beliefs, discarding the rest as you see fit? 🥱🥱

8. The first indication that death as the wage of sin upon man and woman is in Genesis 3 vs 14 - 24. Now, prior to this, it is possible that death may have already been a thing for animals though it was not for humans. Why? Well, Man(and woman) had dominion over animals, and in Genesis 3 vs 21 we read that God killed animals and made clothing for man and woman from it, further implying the animals were there to serve the needs of men and death for animals may have been part of the plan. Just the musings of my mind of the issue. 🥱

Tctrills,

I am sorry to say but this is a very watery and weak revert.

tctrills:
I would address a few things and hopefully you will get clarity on the rest.
When the bible says the wages of sin is death, it was only refering to man. So there is no need to bring up animals.

How can you magisterially and imperially proclaim this? Death is a factor that applies to living things in the physical world. Your bible however insists that it is the result of sin. I ask again if animals sin. On what grounds do you exempt animals from this quagmire?

Also, when the battery in your phone dies, it's not because of sin.

Dont be absurd.

Good you brought up Galatians 6:7.to show the Justice of God, we reap what we sow hence we reap punishment when we sow sin but then, did you consider what happens when we sow repentance? We reap forgiveness all thanks to the mercy of Christ.

One can repent without believing in the ritual human sacrifice teaching which says that the death of Christ is what saves one.

Now let's move on. You claim that only you can bear the spiritual consequences of your actions and that's mostly true when you don't repent. When we repent we no longer bear that consequence.

Yes - and repentance is not dependent on any belief in blood sacrifice. Repentance involve genuine contrition, seeking the forgiveness of God and those hurt and a determination to change one's ways.

We are forgiven because the price has been paid.

This is pagan.

Lastly you make the claim that Jesus was not a willing sacrifice because He pray for the cup to pass by. Well that's being very unfair to Him and the bible.
Was He in pain? Yes
Did He wish the pain to end? Yes
Was He a willing sacrifice? Yes
All 3 are correct.
A friend of mine was once bitten by a snake on his farm in a village.
The villagers applied a very painful treatment to the bite.
Was my friend in pain? Yes
Did he wish the pain to cease? Yes.
Did he willingly allow himself to be treated? Yes.
So taking that verse and claiming Christ was not a willing sacrifice is unfair to the rest of the bible.
Ephesians 5:2: "...just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God".

+
Then we can only conclude that scripture contradicts itself in this matter.

I am sorry to say but this is a very watery and weak revert.



How can you magisterially and imperially proclaim this? Death is a factor that applies to living things in the physical world. Your bible however insists that it is the result of sin. I ask again if animals sin. On what grounds do you exempt animals from this quagmire?
This is a foolish argument because the bible never claims that animal death was as a result of their sin. And to show how foolish the argument is, I asked you about the death of your phone battery.
The bible is an instruction to humans not animals or batteries.
If someone argued that lions are guilty of breaking God's commandment 'Thou shall not kill,' wouldn't you ask if the person was using drugs? That's exactly how I see your linking the death of animals to sin. It's a zero argument.



One can repent without believing in the ritual human sacrifice teaching which says that the death of Christ is what saves one.

Your opinion. But in truth how can you repent without the one who paid for your skin forgiving you? How is that possible.


Yes - and repentance is not dependent on any belief in blood sacrifice. Repentance involve genuine contrition, seeking the forgiveness of God and those hurt and a determination to change one's ways.

Again, this is just your opinion and I don't know how to argue with your unproven opinion.
Mine is not an opinion, it is the word of God. Of course you don't believe it.

This is pagan.
Just because pagans believe it is wrong to steal doesn't make thou shall not steal a pagan instruction.

Then we can only conclude that scripture contradicts itself in this matter.
Explain yourself

Beyond using words that don't really mean much like calling Christ's sacrifice a pagan practice, can you point to anything wrong or immortal with God sending His Son to pay for our sins?
It shows love, mercy and justice all at the same time.

As a father, would you give your son a task that is really hard but at the end, it will big him great glory and honour and save the lives of many? Sign me on any day, I will do that.

TcTrills:

tctrills:
[b]
This is a foolish argument because the bible never claims that animal death was as a result of their sin. And to show how foolish the argument is, I asked you about the death of your phone battery.

+
How is it a foolish revert?

The bible specifically says that the wages of sin is death.

Therefore the question should naturally be asked why animals die, if they have not sinned.

It is a very natural follow up question and simply getting angry and declaring the question foolish does not solve the matter. Later you will call me childish and emotional and teenage. Address the clear inference and the clear issue.

If someone argued that lions are guilty of breaking God's commandment 'Thou shall not kill,' wouldn't you ask if the person was using drugs? That's exactly how I see your linking the death of animals to sin. It's a zero argument.

+
The instruction not to kill refers to murder that is well known. It never extended to killing animals for food for example, did it?

Look, you have to grapple with the simple fact that death was not known of as per scripture until sin came, and thus the question remains whether the sin of man also introduced death to animals.

Or do you specifically posit that animals were already subject to death while man was immortal?

Just be clear, rather than flinging insults.

Your opinion. But in truth how can you repent without the one who paid for your skin forgiving you? How is that possible.

+
What is repentance if not contrition, seeking forgiveness and a change of heart and ways?
How does that require the ritual murder of a man first?

Explain yourself

Beyond using words that don't really mean much like calling Christ's sacrifice a pagan practice, can you point to anything wrong or immortal with God sending His Son to pay for our sins?
It shows love, mercy and justice all at the same time.

As a father, would you give your son a task that is really hard but at the end, it will big him great glory and honour and save the lives of many? Sign me on any day, I will do that.

+
God is said to be perfectly just. It is not justice to make one man pay for the crimes of another man. According to scripture, God is not mocked and whatsoever a man sows the same shall he reap. That is karma and justice. Therefore it is incompatible with justice to perform a ritual whereby one person dies for another.

He will not respond to this!😀

Truthseeker10:
Since you accept the teachings of Christ, why do humans die and what is the solution to death?

Truthseeker10:
Since you accept the teachings of Christ, why do humans die and what is the solution to death?

MaxInDHouse:
He will not respond to this!😀

+
In my humble view humans die because matter is mutable, transient and not self existent. The body being matter must thus go through the cycles that all matter goes through. Thats all.

Let me just add that I dont believe the body is the human being. The body is like a covering, a dressing which the human wears in the worlds of matter to be able to work therein. Death therefore is little more than removing a covering, like taking off a shirt.

+
How is it a foolish revert?

The bible specifically says that the wages of sin is death.
This is as foolish as claiming that phones or batteries die because of sin. The bible was written for people not animals.

It is a very natural follow up question and simply getting angry and declaring the question foolish does not solve the matter. Later you will call me childish and emotional and teenage. Address the clear inference and the clear issue.

I did not insult you, I only commented on your question. The bible also says that on the last day, everyone will be judged. We know it was talking about humans, not animals so please let's ask serious questions.

The instruction not to kill refers to murder that is well known. It never extended to killing animals for food for example, did it?

Exactly my point, it was meant for humans not animals. The instructions and teachings in the bible relate to and are for humans, do you get it now?

Look, you have to grapple with the simple fact that death was not known of as per scripture until sin came, and thus the question remains whether the sin of man also introduced death to animals.
Now, this is guess work. I can't remember the bible teaching that animals did not die before Adam ate the fruit.


+
What is repentance if not contrition, seeking forgiveness and a change of heart and ways?
How does that require the ritual murder of a man first?
The sins must be paid for, that's called justice. Let's leave it to God to decide the process of repentance and forgiveness not you.

God is said to be perfectly just. It is not justice to make one man pay for the crimes of another man. According to scripture, God is not mocked and whatsoever a man sows the same shall he reap. That is karma and justice. Therefore it is incompatible with justice to perform a ritual whereby one person dies for another.

Again, I will have to disagree with everything you wrote here. What is Justice? It is equal application of the law to all. So, as long as no human is deprived of the blessings of Christ's sacrifice, then God is just.
Again according to you, who is the injustice commited against? Is it us humans or Christ His son? Please answer this one.
Yes, whatever we sow, that we shall reap also applies to having a repentant heart. If you sow repentance, you will reap forgiveness of sin.
Do you understand it now?

So who sets the Kamal law you talked about?🤔

DeepSight:
+
In my humble view humans die because matter is mutable, transient and not self existent. The body being matter must thus go through the cycles that all matter goes through. Thats all.
Let me just add that I dont believe the body is the human being. The body is like a covering, a dressing which the human wears in the worlds of matter to be able to work therein. Death therefore is little more than removing a covering, like taking off a shirt.

tctrills:
Again, I will have to disagree with everything you wrote here. What is Justice? It is equal application of the law to all. So, as long as no human is deprived of the blessings of Christ's sacrifice, then God is just.
Again according to you, who is the injustice commited against? Is it us humans or Christ His son? Please answer this one.
Yes, whatever we sow, that we shall reap also applies to having a repentant heart. If you sow repentance, you will reap forgiveness of sin.
Do you understand it now?

=
1. Repentance does not require a ritual in which someone is killed first.

2. It is of course unjust against Jesus, that is assuming it is true which it is certainly not, it is a myth.

3. The analogy of a phone is bad because it is a not a living thing. We understand that the death referred to was the death of living things.

4. I see that you are determined to be unreasonable, so let us leave these points. The other repugnant aspects of Christian teaching are -

- The doctrine of the Trinity which is blasphemous

- The teaching of eternal hell fire which is barbaric

- The ritual of communion which is negatively pagan in essence, to the extent that it is said to be a representation of eating human flesh and drinking human blood

- The teaching that you must love Jesus more than you love your parents

- The doctrine of inherited sin, which casts blame on the innocent

Let us continue with these, bearing in mind that the worst is the one already discussed: namely the idea that the murder of a man acquits you of your sins.

MaxInDHouse:
So who sets the Kamal law you talked about?🤔

+
The Bible itself preaches Karma -

Galatians 6:7–8: "Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life."

2 Corinthians 9:6: "Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously."

Matthew 7:1–2: "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

Luke 6:38: "Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

Obadiah 1:15: "As you have done, it will be done to you; your deeds will return upon your own head."

Proverbs 22:8: "Whoever sows injustice reaps calamity, and the rod they wield in fury will be broken."

Proverbs 26:27: "Whoever digs a pit will fall into it; if someone rolls a stone, it will roll back on them."

Job 4:8: "As I have observed, those who plow evil and those who sow trouble reap it."

Thus you can see that the teaching of Karma is spread all over scripture.

Tctrills you should note all the above scripture which should tell you that there is nothing like the propitiatory sacrifice for sins.

Karma is not what the Bible is talking about o!😟

God's word is talking to His worshipers who feels they can be wiser than Him so when any of God's servants refuses to accept His counsel such a person will not be protected from the consequences of his or her own actions.

Many wicked people have lived wickedly and died without any punishment apart from the common natural death affecting everyone but no servant of God in the Bible escapes the consequences of disobedience.

That's what the Bible is saying Sir!🙂

DeepSight:
+
The Bible itself preaches Karma -

Galatians 6:7–8: "Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life."

2 Corinthians 9:6: "Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously."

Matthew 7:1–2: "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

Luke 6:38: "Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

Obadiah 1:15: "As you have done, it will be done to you; your deeds will return upon your own head."

Proverbs 22:8: "Whoever sows injustice reaps calamity, and the rod they wield in fury will be broken."

Proverbs 26:27: "Whoever digs a pit will fall into it; if someone rolls a stone, it will roll back on them."

Job 4:8: "As I have observed, those who plow evil and those who sow trouble reap it."

Thus you can see that the teaching of Karma is spread all over scripture.

1. Repentance does not require a ritual in which someone is killed first.
Your opinion, you are not God to determine the terms of repentance.

2. It is of course unjust against Jesus, that is assuming it is true which it is certainly not, it is a myth.
Explain how. Remember, He chose to do it and He was rewarded for doing it. So please explain how. If I have a son, I give him a task, he fails to do it but later comes and pleads and ask for forgiveness. I forgive him but insists he completes the task. His elder brother decides to help him, and I agree, please explain how this makes me unjust.

3. The analogy of a phone is bad because it is a not a living thing. We understand that the death referred to was the death of living things.
But the verse never expressly mention living things just as it did not mention animals or plants so the analogy remains perfect. It's you who assumes it has to be living things and not phones. Also does this also involve plants. Before sin entered the world, if Adam ate a maize, will the grains remain alive in his body?

4. I see that you are determined to be unreasonable, so let us leave these points. The other repugnant aspects of Christian teaching are -
If course, what else would you say? Anyone that disagrees with you is unreasonable. No problem, make we leave that one.

- The doctrine of the Trinity which is blasphemous

- The teaching of eternal hell fire which is barbaric

- The ritual of communion which is negatively pagan in essence, to the extent that it is said to be a representation of eating blood flesh and drinking blood

- The teaching that you must love Jesus more than you love your parents

- The doctrine of inherited sin, which casts blame on the innocent

Let us continue with these, bearing in mind that the worst is the one already discussed: namely the idea that the murder of a man acquits you of your sins.

Pick any, let's do it one at a time. But then, don't call me unreasonable because you have run out of answers

MaxInDHouse:
Karma is not what the Bible is talking about o!😟

God's word is talking to His worshipers who feels they can be wiser than Him so when any of God's servants refuses to accept His counsel such a person will not be protected from the consequences of his or her own actions.

Many wicked people have lived wickedly and died without any punishment apart from the common natural death affecting everyone but no servant of God in the Bible escapes the consequences of disobedience.

That's what the Bible is saying Sir!🙂

+
You are the one preaching a gospel of your own making, the many verses I quoted speak for themselves.

DeepSight:
+
The Bible itself preaches Karma -

Galatians 6:7–8: "Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life."

2 Corinthians 9:6: "Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously."

Matthew 7:1–2: "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

Luke 6:38: "Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

Obadiah 1:15: "As you have done, it will be done to you; your deeds will return upon your own head."

Proverbs 22:8: "Whoever sows injustice reaps calamity, and the rod they wield in fury will be broken."

Proverbs 26:27: "Whoever digs a pit will fall into it; if someone rolls a stone, it will roll back on them."

Job 4:8: "As I have observed, those who plow evil and those who sow trouble reap it."

Thus you can see that the teaching of Karma is spread all over scripture.

Tctrills you should note all the above scripture which should tell you that there is nothing like the propitiatory sacrifice for sins.

None of these verses say what you want them to say. These verses teach personal responsibility but that did not teach that forgiveness is impossible.
Repentance is an aspect of personal responsibility. I understand you don't believe in repentance that is abundantly taught in the bible

DeepSight:
+
You are the one preaching a gospel of your own making, the many verses I quoted speak for themselves.

One simple question:

Are you saying everyone who happens to be wicked must suffer or experience your so called Karma?🙂

MaxInDHouse:
One simple question:

Are you saying everyone who happens to be wicked must suffer or experience your so called Karma?🙂

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This is what is taught in the bible.

It can only be tempered by genuine repentance as per scripture.

Tempered I said, not wholly removed.

DeepSight:
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This is what is taught in the bible.

It can only be tempered by genuine repentance as per scripture.

Tempered I said, not wholly removed.

The simple question is:

Are you saying there is no evil person who lived and died without your Karma?

God's word never mention "Karma"

So it's not what you are thinking!🙂

tctrills:
None of these verses say what you want them to say. These verses teach personal responsibility but that did not teach that forgiveness is impossible.
Repentance is an aspect of personal responsibility. I understand you don't believe in repentance that is abundantly taught in the bible

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Repentance is not a problem, it is simply not tied to the ritual murder of anyone.
That in itself is an absurd and barbaric concept.

Haba. That you will only be forgiven when one innocent man is murdered in a gruesome torturous manner and you buy into it? Think about it for heavens sake, stop and think! What sort of antediluvian caveman ritualistic teaching is that? ? ? ?

MaxInDHouse:
The simple question is:

Are you saying there is no evil person who lived and died without your Karma?

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Personally I am not God so I dont know everything and I cannot know the answer to this question. I am just telling you that that is what scripture teaches and I have given you many verses that say so unless you want to say scripture is wrong or false.

God's word never mention "Karma"

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Must it say the exact word when it describes it?

I hope you know there are many things that scripture does not mention but by description, the stance of scripture is clear.

You position is just like saying scripture does not mention not smoking marjuana or tobacco or sniffing cocaine.
But scripture talks about keeping the body healthy and holy!

MaxInDHouse:
The simple question is:

Are you saying there is no evil person who lived and died without your Karma?

God's word never mention "Karma"

So it's not what you are thinking!🙂

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In addition to my response above, let me say that many traditions have different perceptions of how this karma plays out. In Hindu tradition for example, it does not have to be within one lifetime, it is stretched over many reincarnations.

Repentance is not a problem, it is simply not tied to the ritual murder of anyone.
That in itself is an absurd and barbaric concept.
Again your opinion and no one has any good reason to believe you. You are not a prophet, God doesn't speak to you and you have zero spiritual authority. So in this case, your opinion is not important. You can call God's plan absurd and barbaric if that is how you feel but you haven't presented any evidence to prove your point.

Haba. That you will only be forgiven when one [b]innocent man is murdered in a gruesome torturous manner and you buy into it? Think about it for heavens sake, stop and think! What sort of antediluvian caveman ritualistic teaching is that? ? ? ?
If the wages of sin is death then there is no escaping. For the demands of justice, it must be fulfilled. Is it painful, scary and maybe unbelievable to you but that's the clear definition of justice, every crime must be paid for before forgiveness is granted. Using words like antediluvian caveman ritualistic only express your disgust and opinion, still you don't seem to be able to clearly explain what wrong with it.

DeepSight:
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Personally I am not God so I dont know everything and I cannot know the answer to this question.

The answer is simple jàre.
Many evil people have lived and died without suffering anything else other than oldage and death which is common among humans.
So your Karma doesn't apply to God's word which is absolute truth.

DeepSight:
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Must it say the exact word when it describes it?
I hope you know there are many things that scripture does not mention but by description, the stance of scripture is clear.
You position is just like saying scripture does not mention not smoking marjuana or tobacco or sniffing cocaine.
But scripture talks about keeping the body healthy and holy!

The word Karma has its own meaning that's what i'm telling you and it doesn't go well with God's inspired message.
What Bible teaches is straightforward:

God will not protect anyone from the consequences of disobedience so we must be submissive if we want God's blessing and protection.

As regards people who don't know His laws God has left them with their conscience to judge or permit them in whatever they choose to do! Romans 2:14-15

The idea of a perfect human life to pay for the sin of mankind is not automatic as you erroneously concluded Adamic sin brought sickness, oldage and death something God will remove only after another perfect human soul pays to redeem obedient humans.

So Jesus' sacrificial death will allow us all to have a fair chance in Paradise it's then that wilful sin will no longer have any provision for redemption.

Meanwhile only people who knew God's laws and lived by them (RIGHTEOUS) and those who don't know God's laws but lived by their God's given conscience will be allowed to get that fair chance in Paradise. Act 24:15

Wicked people who have rendered their conscience dead will not be raised back to life they have had their fair share in life but proved to be useless! Psalms 9:17

tctrills:
You are not a prophet, God doesn't speak to you and you have zero spiritual authority.

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How do you know this?

If the wages of sin is death then there is no escaping. For the demands of justice, it must be fulfilled. Is it painful, scary and maybe unbelievable to you but that's the clear definition of justice, every crime must be paid for before forgiveness is granted. Using words like antediluvian caveman ritualistic only express your disgust and opinion, still you don't seem to be able to clearly explain what wrong with it.

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I have said it repeatedly: yes justice is that a crime must be paid for: by the criminal.

PS: Why are you not quoting me but just putting in bold what I write?

MaxInDHouse:
Meanwhile only people who knew God's laws and lived by them (RIGHTEOUS) and those who don't know God's laws but lived by their God's given conscience will be allowed to get that fair chance in Paradise. Act 24:15

Wicked people who have rendered their conscience dead will not be raised back to life they have had their fair share in life but proved to be useless! Psalms 9:17

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This is inconsistent. Why one rule for one group and another rule for other groups?
Jesus made it clear through the Parable of the Good Samaritan that all this is nonsense.

DeepSight:
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Haba. That you will only be forgiven when one innocent man is murdered in a gruesome torturous manner and you buy into it? Think about it for heavens sake, stop and think! What sort of antediluvian caveman ritualistic teaching is that? ? ? ?

If you think about it, you would see that you are not thinking well for first when you are found guilty and condemnd, your problem is who will save you and you really do not care how you are saved.

And secondly, it is not a fellow death row inmate or wanted person like yorself who can save you as we say "you wey never save yourself na im you won save another person? Abeg save yourself first ".

So in all these you are the ones one who looses if no salvation is given like a jws refusing life saving blood transfusion.

Dtruthspeaker:
If you think about it, you would see that you are not thinking well for first when you are found guilty and condemnd, your problem is who will save you and you really do not care how you are saved.

And secondly, it is not a fellow death row inmate or wanted person like yorself who can save you as we say "you wey never save yourself na im you won save another person? Abeg save yourself first ".

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This is incoherent and I must upbraid you for writing all too often in a most scattered, unstructured and incomprehensible manner which seems like the musings of a child or child animation.

So in all these you are the ones one who looses if no salvation is given like a jws refusing life saving blood transfusion.

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Address this to Maxindhouse

DeepSight:
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This is inconsistent. Why one rule for one group and another rule for other groups?
Jesus made it clear through the Parable of the Good Samaritan that all this is nonsense.

Abeg how does the parable of the good Samaritan apply to what we are saying here?

Perhaps you don't know the Samaritans and Jews are all Israelites so they have God's law unlike pagan nations!🙂

DeepSight:
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How do you know this?


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I have said it repeatedly: yes justice is that a crime must be paid for: by the criminal.

PS: Why are you not quoting me but just putting in bold what I write?

But for the above, you already offered the best verse, whatever you sow, you shall reap