₦airaland Forum

TenQ:
This was my observation and not the question asked.
My Question was:
1. How come every chapter of the Qur'an (including chapters 1-49 according to Revelation) except chapter 9 begins with Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem ?

Mohammed NEVER RECITED Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem until surah 50 by revelation.



I never asked you if the order of revelation differs for the order of RECITATION. No one heard Mohammed call Allah by Rahmanir Raheem before the 50th Surah according to Revelation. The Question I asked was

2. Was it Jibril that came back to re-reveal it for the earlier 1-49th chapters (in the order of revelation) as he forgot to dictate it the first time?




I did not dispute that al-Rahman al-Rahim was part of the Qur'an. I only follow your Asbab al-Nuzul where people were saying that Mohammed now has two gods Allah and the God of al-Yamamah (meaning Musaylimah the liar)

How is it that al-Rahman al-Rahim was also part of then first 49 surahs according to Revelation.

What is your explanation?



SMH!
I asked a question and you answer a different question and you also give yourself a pass mark for the answer you gave!?

ME: What is the name of the President of Nigeria?
YOU: The president of Nigeria is over 80 years old and he is an extremely good politician. He used to be the governor of Lagos state.

Ask yourself: is this the right answer to the question?


The Question was:
3. Who's words then is Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem in chapters 1-49: Is it Allah's words or Mohammed's words?

honesttalk21:
When you stop feigning loss of composure, pretending not to see whst is written directly, you will find all three answers already sitting in the post you quoted.

TenQ:
Boohoo!!!

[. Your prophet claimed he was recieving the Qur'an from a purported Angel called Jibril

2. For the first 49 purported revelations, Mohammed started the Qur'an according to Jibril with the phrase "In Thy name, O Allah"!

3. Then Mr Mohammed met this guy called al-Yamamah who called his god by the name the beneficent

4. But Mohammed fell in love with the name of the god of al-Yamamah and he began to recite his Quran with the phrase Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem

5. The idolaters said "we do not know of anyone by the name of the Beneficent except the beneficent of al-Yamamah (meaning Musaylimah the liar)’,

6. Therefore Allah, revealed this verse Quran 17:110

7. Since then, “At the beginning of revelation, Mohammed used to write ‘In Thy name, O Allah’ until this verse was revealed , after which he always wrote ‘In the name of Allah the Beneficent, the Merciful’

8. So, we expect that only the 50th chapter through the 114th chapter by revelation would contain this new found phrase of Mohammed.

9. Unfortunately, someone EITHER Mohammed himself or One of his Followers decided to Add to the earlier Revealed chapters Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem : a phrase Jibril never dictated to Mohammed.

10. Muslims like honesttalk21 wish that the Asbab al-Nuzul for the verse Quran 17:110 was incorrect ALAS the Asbab al-Nuzul for the verse is iron cast.[/i]

But because these people Love LIES and hate the TRUTH, they will pretend they are not seeing the OBVIOUS Truth but Adopt the falsehood they have chosen to believe.

It is not a wonder that it is impossible for Muslims to truthfully answer the Questions:
Tell me, if Quran 17 was the 50th chapter according to Revelation,
1. How come every chapter of the Qur'an (including chapters 1-49 according to Revelation) except chapter 9 begins with Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem ?

2. Was it Jibril that came back to re-reveal it for the earlier 1-49th chapters (in the order of revelation) as he forgot to dictate it the first time?

3. Who's words then is Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem in chapters 1-49: Is it Allah's words or Mohammed's words?


I am sure that You wouldn't answer AGAIN because this is another evidence that the Qur'an of Allah is different from the Qur'an of Mohammed .

honesttalk21:
Where it is difficult to discern:

1. The Basmallah appears at the start of every surah except the ninth one, as the Prophet (pbuh) directed its placement in the final compilation. This is universally accepted and preserved, with no discrepancies among manuscripts.


2. Jibril didn’t forget, and nothing was re-revealed; the order of revelation differs from the order of compilation.


3. Bismillah al-Rahman al-Rahim is part of the Qur’an;words from Allah, clearly stated in 27:30 and consistently transmitted through every recitation.


Tell me these are not in the former reply. How can you obviously paint falsehood as truth? LIEING tenq


Please tell that these aren't direct answers to your questions!

honesttalk21:
.......
You quibble about Quran 1-49 see yours

and pretend that Quran 27:30 is separate and changes something but it doesn't.

1The Basmallah appears at the start of every surah except the ninth one, as the Prophet (pbuh) directed its placement in the final compilation. This is universally accepted and preserved, with no discrepancies among manuscripts.

2 Jibril didn’t forget, and nothing was re-revealed; the order of revelation differs from the order of compilation.

3 Bismillah al-Rahman al-Rahim is part of the Qur’an;words from Allah, clearly stated in 27:30 and consistently transmitted through every recitation. There are no alternative versions, no missing texts, and no competing scriptures. Your objection is unfounded.

honesttalk21:
Only when you're done grieving through outpouring about publicly being caught in lies will I respond. Keep pouring.

Observers note the questions answered and numbered in red 1, 2 and 3 perharps 2 should have been numbered a few words before however Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will also be like him. Answer a fool as his folly deserves, that he not be wise in his own eyes. (Prov. 26:4–5)





I hope you are able to retain proper composure for appropriate understanding and discernment soon.

TenQ:
.
A man who ignores the Truth will fall into the irrevocable destruction!

Being Obstinate is not the same thing as Faith!

Faith itself is the Trust in the INTEGRITY of God and not in the integrity of a Man called Mohammed!...


Have a good week!

honesttalk21:
Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in another's eye and ignore the plank in your eye?

Sure a week will be enough for you to ponder and repent?

TenQ:
Every Muslim must enter the fire of hell then younwill wait endlessly for Allah to remove you from it.

I know you selectively believe Allah but a reminder of what he says to you

Quran 19:71-72
"There is not one of you who shall not go down to it (Hell): such is a thing decreed, determined by your Lord."
"Then, We will save those who were cautious of Us, but the harmdoers shall be left there hobbling on their knees."

Even Allah sometimes speak the truth to you but you wouldn't listen. You will rather invent a non-existent bridge of Sirat above the fire.

A word is enough for the wise!



Have a Good day please!

honesttalk21:
What did this discussion thread start on? Men's braids in Islam? Got into what hadith is authentic and why some single hadith narrations are regarded as Sahih gharib due to other Sahih hadith containing similar narration? Did you then move this to Quran despite a difference between the two?

Next to an illusionary due to gross misunderstanding existence of numerous Quran not divinely revealed and accepted recitation styles? When you got obviously held in your obvious contradiction you now come to this one? 😪🤔

Must you be seen to out debate anyone upholding Islam because you choose to irrationally hate anything Islam or any Muslim that practices this despite their imperfections? You’re forcing “enter Hell” into a word that doesn’t require it. Wariduha can mean to approach or pass by not necessarily or strictly to go in 🔍. Even early scholars didn’t read it as universal punishment.

Then the very next line settles it. God saves the mindful and leaves the wrongdoers behind. That’s not “everyone burns” that’s clear separation and Justice ⚖️.

And the Sirat isn’t something people made up it comes from established prophetic reports explaining how that passing happens 🌉.

So this isn’t a gotcha. It’s a verse about who makes it through and who doesn’t not everyone ending up in Hell 🔥.

TenQ:
1. I definitely do NOT hate Muslims as many Muslims are good people who were just unfortunate to apparently adopt the erroneous teachings of Mohammed without due diligence.
2. Isilaimu appears to be a religion of the Al-Masih ad-Dajjal because it opposes the core reason for why Jesus came to the world which is SALVATION through atonement for Sin. Unlike in Islam, Jesus is our ransom from the consequences of Hell for Sin
3. My objective is to force Muslims to think because part of the system of this world is that God does not PREVENT people from being Deceived by Satan because deception requires the cooperation of the Deceived.
4. As long as a Muslim refuses to think, he remains in Darkness: any Muslim that THINKS will find the TRUTH. Any Muslim that Adopts the Truth will be SAVED.

This said




Quran 19:71-72
"There is not one of you who shall not go down to it (Hell): such is a thing decreed, determined by your Lord."
"Then, We will save those who were cautious of Us, but the harmdoers shall be left there hobbling on their knees."

Why will you choose to self delude your self on this verse?

You said:
"Wariduha can mean to approach or pass by not necessarily or strictly to go in"

Why don't you truthfully answer these Questions strictly according to the verse
1. Along with the Muslims, Will the evildoers also approach hell or pass by it?
2. If along with Muslims the evildoers will approach hell or pass by it, what are they doing on their knees after they have escaped hell?
3. If along with Muslims the evildoers will approach hell or pass by it, within where then are they kneeling?

Let me help your with your classical Tafsirs
1. Tafsir al-Jalalayn Quran 19:71-72
There is not one of you but shall come to it that is but shall enter Hell. That is an inevitability already decreed by your Lord something which He made inevitable and which He decreed; He will not waive it.


2. Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs Quran 19:71-72
( There is not one of you but shall approach it ) there is not a single one of you, to the exclusion of prophets and messengers, save that he will enter it, i.e. hell. ( That is a fixed ordinance of your Lord ) it is a decree that must necessarily take place.

3. Tafsir al-Tabari on Quran 19:71
(“And there is none of you except he will come to it”) explains that wurud (coming) means every person—both believers and sinners will enter Hell as a decreed, inevitable destiny. However, this entry is not permanent for believers, who will be saved.

Later, Muslims began to invent an imaginary bridge or that the fire will be cool to Muslims: things Allah never said.

Let me help you with a few Hadiths of tour prophet

Sunan Ibn Majah 4281
Abu Bakr bin Abi Shaybah narrated to us, Abu Mu'awiyah narrated to us, from Al-A'mash, from Abu Sufyan, from Jabir, from Umm Mubashshir, from Hafsa, who said: The Prophet (ﷺ) said:
"I hope that no one who was present at Badr and Hudaibiya will enter the Fire, if Allah wills."
She (Hafsa) said: I asked, "O Messenger of Allah, has Allah not said: {'And there is none of you but will pass over it (Hell), this is a decree of your Lord that must be accomplished' [19:71]}?"
He replied: "Did you not hear Him say: {'Then We shall save those who used to fear Allah and were dutiful to Him, and We shall leave the wrongdoers in it (Hell) to their knees' [19:72]}?"

Is it untrue that Your prophet said:
If Allah wills, he will create an exception for Muslims present at Badr and Hudaibiya so that they will NOT enter the Fire!

As usual of Mohammed, he began to create exceptions to the decree of Allah

Sunan Abi Dawud 4653
Jabir reported the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) as saying: No one of those who took the oath of allegiance under the tree will go to hell.

Jami` at-Tirmidhi 1060
Abu Hurairah narrated that:
The Messenger of Allah said: "Any Muslim who has lost three of his children will not be touched by the Fire, except for what will fulfill the oath."

Will any Muslim be touched by the fire as they pass OVER or BY the Fire of Hell?


I am so sorry for you sir!
As decreed by Allah, all Muslims must enter hell at least temporarily

honesttalk21:
You say you don’t hate Muslims, but calling their faith “deception” while assuming your theology is the only valid lens already shuts down real understanding especially since Islam doesn’t reject Jesus Christ, it rejects a later atonement framework, much like earlier monotheistic traditions did ✝️➡️📖

honesttalk21:
On “forcing people to think,” that cuts both ways as you’re locking onto one translation and one reading of wurud while ignoring that even classical scholars differed on whether it means entering or passing, which weakens the idea of a clear contradiction 🧩

honesttalk21:
You’ve quoted Tafsir al-Jalalayn, Ibn Abbas, and Al-Tabari for “entry,” but left out that the same tradition explains how through the Sirat relates to reconcile 19:71 with 19:72 🌉

honesttalk21:
So the real issue isn’t “does wurud mean entry?” it’s what kind, for how long, and with what outcome and even your own cited hadith shows a distinction between those who remain and those who are saved 🔍

Which means even on your reading, the passage is about temporary passage and final separation, not “all Muslims burn”—and those “exceptions” are just clarifying who falls under the saved group in 19:72 ⚖️

TenQ:
What makes Islam my target is that it claims to take its authority from my Bible teachings about God, the Prophets, Heaven and Hell etc BUT then after standing rejected the Bible for something else called Islam.

The truth is a double edged sword. A poisoned food will kill whether you tell the eater or not.
Tell me:
If I Truely know that you are going to hell based on what my Bible says AND what your Qur'an says, do you think it is alright if I keep Quiet!?

Secondly, we both know that their is only one God the Creator of all. Unfortunately, the identity of your God Allah and the identity of the God of the Christians and Jews YHWH is completely different.

Allah is NOT a Spirit
Allah is not Omnipresent
Allah cannot enter his Creation
Allah does not have Children

Meaning that we cannot both be going to the same Paradise!


Why is it advantageous for you to re-explain the plain words of Allah for the words of your scholars who always disagree with each other.

Disagreement within your religion is your problem not mine.

Is the words of Allah not detailed again!?
Qur'an 12:111
The verse states that the Qur’an is not an invented story but a confirmation of what came before it, “a detailed explanation of all things, a guide and a mercy for those who believe.”

Qur'an 16:89
Allah says: “We have revealed to you the Book as an explanation of all things,” followed by describing it as a guide, mercy, and glad tidings for those who submit.

Except you admit that Allah contradicts himself, why is it difficult to follow the exact words of Allah?


Did Mohammed make Ibn Abbas the “Tarjumān al‑Qur’ān” (Interpreter of the Qur’ān)?

Sahih al-Bukhari 75
Narrated Ibn `Abbas: Once the Prophet (ﷺ) embraced me and said, "O Allah! Bestow on him the knowledge of the Book (Qur'an).

But, you want to throw him under the bus because he speaks bitter things!?


Allah says there is NOT one amongst you that will not be roasted in the fire
BUT
Your real God created EXEMPTIONS and you ignore the eternal words of Allah for the temporary words of a man?


Allah says you can do Mutah in his eternal words of the Qur'an
BUT
Your real God forbade Mutah and you ignore the eternal words of Allah for the temporary words of this man?

Unfortunately, Allah did not state how long you Muslims will remain in the fire (one hour? One million years? hundred million years?) before he starts replacing you one by one with Jews and Christians.

Sahih Muslim 2767 a
Abu Musa' reported that Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said: When it will be the Day of Resurrection Allah would deliver to every Muslim a Jew or a Christian and say: That is your rescue from Hell-Fire.


The Questions Again!
Why don't you truthfully answer these Questions strictly according to the verse
1. Along with the Muslims, Will the evildoers also approach hell or pass by it?
2. If along with Muslims the evildoers will approach hell or pass by it, what are they doing on their knees after they have escaped hell?
3. If along with Muslims the evildoers will approach hell or pass by it, within where then are they kneeling?

honesttalk21:
You’re still building on a false premise. Islam doesn’t borrow authority from your Bible; it comes from Allah directly, while affirming earlier revelations in origin but not guaranteeing your current text is unchanged 📖

honesttalk21:
On God’s identity, the traits you deny: God not being a man (Numbers 23:19), not contained in creation (1 Kings 8:27), and not sharing His glory (Isaiah 42: are affirmed in your own scripture too, so the difference is in later theology, not the original concept of God ⚖️

honesttalk21:
On “thinking vs blindness,” disagreement isn’t ignorance; every serious tradition has scholars; even your own faith splits on core doctrines, so interpretation isn’t a flaw, it’s unavoidable ?!

On Ibn Abbas you can’t cite him when he serves you, then dismiss the broader scholarly tradition he represents when it doesn’t; that’s not consistency, that’s selective reasoning 🎯

honesttalk21:
On 19:71–72, your argument collapses on the second verse: yes, everyone reaches it, but only wrongdoers remain so they’re kneeling in Hell, while others are saved; that’s not contradiction, that’s the distinction the text itself makes 🔥

honesttalk21:
On Sahih Muslim 2767, the “ransom” (fidya) language isn’t literal body-swapping into Hell. It’s understood as God lifting the burden of sins from some and placing full accountability on those who actually bear them; you’re turning a theological expression of justice and mercy into a crude physical exchange to force a contradiction ⚖️

honesttalk21:
And the rest of the hadith you cited don’t override the Qur’an they explain it: some are explicitly identified among the saved (Badr, Hudaibiya), which fits 19:72, not contradicts it 🤲

So no this isn’t Muslims avoiding the plain meaning; it’s you isolating lines, ignoring context, and then calling the result a contradiction when the full text already resolved it before you even asked.

TenQ:
Who is the one claiming the God of the Jews and Christians as theirs?
Qur'an 29:46
“Do not argue with the People of the Book except in a way that is best, except for those who commit wrong. And say: ‘We believe in what has been revealed to us and what has been revealed to you. Our God and your God is One [Allah], and to Him we have submitted.’”


Who is seeking validation of our scripture and our God as also their own?


Muslims and Strawman arguments!

Is Jibril a man?
Qur’ān 19:17
“Then she took a veil (to screen herself) from them; then We sent to her Our Spirit (Rūḥ), and he appeared to her as a man, well‑proportioned.”

Our God is NOT a man but His Power allow Him to come to us as a man!
Does Allah have the power to come to Muslims in any form he wants?


It is you Muslims who pick and choose what to take from your scholars. You do so with your Qur'an, you do so with your Hadiths and You do so with your Tafsirs and Sirah.
Sahih Bukhari is not sahih
Sahih Muslim is not sahih


That is in fact my argument that specifically Muslims must first enter hell fire for some undetermined TIME period before Allah removes you by placing Christians and Jews in your stead!

Unfortunately, the implication is that during this time, Christians and Jews are NOT in the fire of hell: this is why Allah can use us for ransom.

Something is fishy here o!
Will the time be one million years in hell?



Sorry!
Your prophet cannot speak clearly again!?
What is the justice for Allah to put the sins of Muslims of Adultery, Theft, Murder on Me?

Is Allah speaking contradictions again because the eternal words of Allah says:

Qur’ān 2:62
“Indeed, those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians—whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good—will have their reward with their Lord, and there will be no fear for them, nor will they grieve.”

Same with Quran 5:69

Allah says Jews and Christians will enter paradise but your prophet cancels Allah's eternal decree in other to use us for the ransom of Muslims!



Allah gave his condition: there is NOT one of you who shall not go down to it (Hell):
AND
It is a DECREE by Allah

So, according to Allah, who are the EXEMPTION to the Decree of Allah!?


Quran 19:71-72
"There is not one of you who shall not go down to it (Hell): such is a thing decreed, determined by your Lord."
"Then, We will save those who were cautious of Us, but the harmdoers shall be left there hobbling on their knees."

Does the Hadith override the Qur'an?

Sorry!
When a doctrine is based on LIES, it is impossible to defend except with more LIES!


The Questions Again!
Why don't you truthfully answer these Questions strictly according to the verse
1. Along with the Muslims, Will the evildoers also approach hell or pass by it?
2. If along with Muslims the evildoers will approach hell or pass by it, what are they doing on their knees after they have escaped hell?
3. If along with Muslims the evildoers will approach hell or pass by it, within where then are they kneeling?

honesttalk21:
You’re not exposing a contradiction you’re stacking verses, ignoring how language works, then calling it confusion when the text itself already separates outcomes.

Q29:46 isn’t “borrowing your God”; it affirms the same Creator while correcting where transmission diverged 📖

Your Jibril point collapses on your own scripture Numbers 23:19 says God is not a man. An angel appearing in human form isn’t God becoming man; manifestation isn’t incarnation, and your own text already drew that line 🔍

On Q19:71–72, this has been answered: yes, all reach it; only wrongdoers remain left kneeling in Hell while others are saved.

Repeating the same questions doesn’t create a contradiction, it just avoids the distinction already stated 🔥

On ransom, you’re merging categories. Q2:62 speaks about those who meet its conditions; Sahih Muslim 2767 addresses others. Different groups, different outcomes. No contradiction just selective reading ⚖️.

At this point, this isn’t about clarity anymore it’s repetition. The answers are already on the table, and anyone reading can see that 📚

Gabrielshow24:
Mind completing... and adding the full verse🤨. Anyone that sees the bolded will just laugh at your puerile attempt to sell cheap scripts. The verse doesn't offer any limitation on God👀!

Here is the full context:
"God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?" 🤨

Kindly point out where in the verse the text does say "God cannot appear as a man" or "God cannot become human." It says God is not like a man (i.e., fickle, untruthful). 🤷

How, you and your Ai😂, drew such a conclusion is baffling? It's ludicrous 😅.

As for your other writeup, it's so obvious that you addressed nothing. Pls, keep your ai-generated taqqiya to yourself🥱.

Gabrielshow24:
Unfortunately for you, the Talmud is not the word of God👀. But as for the 'best of mankind'👀 whose words "supposedly" come from "God" you have no excuse.

I advise you...Sorry, the best of mankind indulges you👀... to dip that housefly👀 into your food🤨. While doing that also drink camel's urine. If this is not enough also kiss the "mole"👀 on his back. If possible be like jabir that wanted to eat the excess of " the best of mankind"🤧. You can as well drink his urine and use his sweat as perfume🤨.

Aitalk at it once again...

honesttalk21:
You’re not exposing a contradiction you’re stacking verses, ignoring how language works, then calling it confusion when the text itself already separates outcomes.

Q29:46 isn’t “borrowing your God”; it affirms the same Creator while correcting where transmission diverged 📖

honesttalk21:
Your Jibril point collapses on your own scripture Numbers 23:19 says God is not a man. An angel appearing in human form isn’t God becoming man; manifestation isn’t incarnation, and your own text already drew that line 🔍

honesttalk21:
On Q19:71–72, this has been answered: yes, all reach it; only wrongdoers remain left kneeling in Hell while others are saved.

Repeating the same questions doesn’t create a contradiction, it just avoids the distinction already stated 🔥

honesttalk21:
On ransom, you’re merging categories. Q2:62 speaks about those who meet its conditions; Sahih Muslim 2767 addresses others. Different groups, different outcomes. No contradiction just selective reading ⚖️.

At this point, this isn’t about clarity anymore it’s repetition. The answers are already on the table, and anyone reading can see that 📚

TenQ:
Show me the correction according to Qur'an 29:46 where transmission diverged because all whoever is the author of the verse said was
1. We believe in what has been revealed to us and what has been revealed to you.
2. Our God and your God is One, and to Him we have submitted.’”

Did Allah say to to our God you submit!?



And I asked you: Is Jibril a man?
And I said:
Our God is NOT a man but His Power allow Him to come to us as a man!
Does Allah have the power to come to Muslims on Earth in any form he wants?

You cannot answer because Allah cannot enter his creation and still remain almighty: or can he?

Secondly,
Every human being is a Descendant of Adam: Is Jesus Christ a descendant of Adam?
According to Allah in the Qur'an, Did Jesus exist before His incarnation or His existence came at his birth?

Qur'an 4:171
“O People of the Book! Do not go to extremes in your religion. Say nothing about Allāh except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was no more than a Messenger of Allāh, and His Word which He bestowed upon Mary, and a Spirit from Him.”

With evidence, when exactly did Jesus became a messenger of Allah before of after he was named Jesus?
With evidence when did Jesus become the Word of Allah cast down to Mary before of after he was named Jesus??
With evidence, when did Jesus become a Spirit from Allah before of after he was named Jesus?

To help your cognition, we will do the same with Mohammad!

With evidence, when exactly did Mohammed became a messenger of Allah?



It is good that you agree with me that you will at least temporarily be in hell fire.
So, can you tell me why it makes sense that Allah will first put Muslims in HELL Fire when their place is in Paradise?

What if you discovered that it was a ploy by Allah to give you a false hope that you will eventually come out of the fire?



Allah says
Allah states clearly in Quran 5:69 and Qur'an 2:62 that Jews and Christians will have their reward with their Lord, and there will be no fear for them, nor will they grieve.”

Can you state exactly the conditions of Allah for the Jews, Christians and Sabians without adding or interpolating with your own perception?

honesttalk21:
🍿 Bravo! Fair point on Numbers 23:19.
The full verse is about divine faithfulness, not metaphysical limitation, and that specific citation deserved the correction 📖

But you've only moved one brick and called the building collapsed.

Isaiah 42:8 still stands "I will not share my glory with another" and 1 Kings 8:27 still stands. You walked past both to celebrate the one you could partially deflect 🎯



On the Talmud, the very tradition you're dismissing is the foundational legal and theological framework of Rabbinic Judaism, revered by the people who actually received and preserved the Torah you're citing. Jewish scholars for over fifteen centuries have treated it as the authoritative oral transmission of Sinai alongside the written Torah. If its primary custodians considered it worth that reverence, dismissing it to win a forum argument needs more justification than a wave of the hand 📚

And you're still making the Islamic point. If rabbinic scholarship doesn't bind you because it isn't direct divine word, you understand exactly why Muslims distinguish between the Qur'an and scholarly tradition. The principle you're using to dismiss the Talmud is the same one you've been mocking Muslims for applying 📖

Showing what one verse doesn't prohibit isn't evidence that incarnation occurred so that burden remains entirely yours and you haven't touched it ⚖️

As for camel urine and housefly the theological argument ran out and mockery walked in. That's visible to everyone reading 👀

These narrations exist within the same corpus containing responses you haven't refuted. You can't mine the same tradition for ridicule while dismissing it when it answers you 🔍

Address Isaiah 42:8 and 1 Kings 8:27 or the concession stands 📚

Gabrielshow24:
As usual, you and your AI muddle contexts up. You failed to provide the relevant context to your AI agent🥱. That's why it spits irrelevant statements.

If neither you nor Agent failed to understand my message that's very bad, indeed. I expected more from your agent. You, by the way, not much... You can't even defend your religion without relying on generated scripts🥱.

My point in this is that the subject of the Hadith—the best of mankind—supposedly God's spokesperson, gave a questionable statement recorded in your Hadith. It's also to highlight that the Talmuds are plainly commentaries of men(Rabbis) on the Scripture and not the supposed 'Divine word' received from Allah🤨.

The other examples, which you call mockery are to highlight a persistent pattern given by the 'best of mankind'... Apparently Allah's spokesperson... If we find this in the Talmud , it's not important since they are just men, teachers👀 but the same can't be said of the 'best of mankind'—whom also has the Islamic propaganda of exuding 'purity' hence the essence of me highlighting stories of the sabiuns drinking urine, gathering sweat and in one instance 'seeking to eat' the excess of 'the best of mankind'.

As for 1 kings 8:27 and Isaiah 42:8, I didn't walk past both. You just referenced them after I dismissed your fallacious argument with Numbers🤨. Part of the reasons I said you both muddle up contexts 🥱. If both were present I would have thrashed them out. I wonder how you intend to somewhat use these verses to disprove and possibly place a limitation on God becoming flesh🤕—AI slop in full view.

Let's quote both verses:
1 kings 8:27 "But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?"

How does this disprove Jesus?👀 when Solomon’s point is that no building can contain or limit God's entire essence. Christians do not believe the physical body of Jesus "contained" the totality of the infinite God in a way that left the rest of the universe empty🤦🏾‍♂️. Instead, the Bible teaches that in Christ, the "fullness of the Deity dwells in bodily form" (Colossians 2:9) while God simultaneously remains omnipresent🧐. However, if God is all-powerful, He is not "trapped" by His own infinity which the 'best of mankind' wants us to believe🤦🏾‍♂️; He has the power to manifest Himself locally without losing His transcendent nature.

Solomon's Temple was a "type" or shadow of what was to come. While Solomon asked, "Will God indeed dwell on the earth?" the New Testament answers this with a definitive "Yes" in the person of Jesus, the Word who "became flesh and tabernacled among us" (John 1:14)😁 God is Spirit; His "dwelling" is a matter of relationship and revelation, not displacement of volume. Solomon himself believed God would "dwell" in the Temple (1 Kings 8:12-13) while still acknowledging God's transcendence in verse 27. So what's your point?🥱

Isaiah 42:8: "I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images."

In John 17:5, Jesus prays, "Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began". If God gives His glory to no one else, yet Jesus possessed this glory from eternity, it indicates that Jesus is part of the same divine nature as the Father

You inadvertently made a case for Jesus🤦🏾‍♂️.
You also forgot about the worship of the Lamb (Jesus). According to Revelation 5:12-13, every creature in heaven and on earth gives the exact same blessing, honor, and glory to "the Lamb" (Jesus) as they do to "Him who sits on the throne".
Thus, If Jesus deserves the worship and glory that God says belongs to Him alone, then Jesus must be God!🙌

This is why you should try to read the output of your Ai prompts🥱. It saves one the embarrassment from inadvertently disproving oneself😂.

honesttalk21:
Good you engaged the verses and that's some progress but does your engagement hold?

On 1 Kings 8:27 by your own response you prove the point against yourself. You say God manifests locally without His infinite essence being contained. Agreed completely. That's precisely the Islamic position Allah communicates, acts and reveals without being limited by or merged into creation. You've defended transcendence using Islamic logic while thinking you were defending incarnation 🤔🤣😋

In Colossians 2:9 Paul writing decades after Jesus doesn't interpret Solomon. You're using later theology to answer an earlier question Solomon never posed as a prophecy. Solomon's humility before divine transcendence isn't John 1:14 waiting to happen that conclusion requires importing a framework Solomon never held. Show it differently if you can but the framework Solomon held doesn't contain it.

Isaiah 42:8 and John 17:5 collapses your argument completely. God shares glory with no other. Jesus prays for glory. A prayer requires a distinct petitioner and a distinct recipient. God does not petition Himself. Either Jesus is God making John 17:5 incoherent or Jesus is distinct from God making Isaiah 42:8 fatal to your position. You cannot resolve both without Trinitarian philosophy that Isaiah never knew and never taught otherwise the adhents of Judaism will accept later Christian views.

On Revelation 5:12-13, the same book seats God and the Lamb separately, references them distinctly and maintains that distinction throughout. If shared worship proves identical divine nature then the angel of Revelation 19:10 refusing John's worship while being worshipped elsewhere becomes your next problem. The book you're using as your strongest proof actively undermines by disagreement the conclusion you're drawing from it.

On the Prophet's narrations you've clarified your actual point and it is here addressed: Hadith literature claims prophetic authority unlike Talmudic commentary which acknowledges human authorship. That's a legitimate distinction worth serious debate. However not every narration claiming prophetic authority is authenticated to the same standard or always clearly understood in its context. Islamic scholarship itself developed an entire science precisely to address that, grading narrations, questioning chains and debating meaning. What isn't legitimate is mining that same corpus selectively for mockery while dismissing it entirely when it provides answers that's not a standard, that's a convenience more in mischievous manipulation.

What your entire response actually reveals is every argument requires later texts reinterpreting earlier ones. Paul reinterpreting Solomon. John reinterpreting Isaiah. Revelation reframing everything. That's not consistent original revelation speaking across centuries. That's a developing theology reading backwards through texts whose authors never intended those conclusions 🤔🤔🤔🤔

Isaiah 42:8 still stands. John 17:5 still contradicts your reading of it. And Revelation's own internal distinction between God and the Lamb still hasn't been explained 🔍.

The inadvertent case was yours. The questions keep multiplying because the answers keep landing 💡

Gabrielshow24:
God doesn't reveal everything on page one. Solomon’s statement in 1 Kings 8:27 ("The heavens cannot contain you" establishes God’s transcendence, which the New Testament doesn't contradict—it builds upon.🧐

If the "Infinite Essence" cannot be contained, but God still "manifests locally" (as you have admitted🤦🏾‍♂️🤨), then you have already conceded the possibility of the Incarnation😂. The Incarnation isn't God being "trapped" in a body; it is the Word (Logos) adding humanity to His divinity.

If you reject "reading backwards😂," kindly throw away the Qur'an😂. The Qur'an "reads backwards" into the life of Abraham, Moses, and Jesus, claiming they were Muslims👀—a "framework" those figures never held. You are using a standard against the Bible that dismisses your own book😂.

Kindly read John 17:5, Jesus asks for the glory He had with the Father before the world began.🤷 "Began" is emphatically italicized 👀 Incase you and your agent missed that😂🥱.

If Isaiah 42:8 says God shares His glory with no one, and Jesus is explicitly claiming to share that same eternal glory, there are only two options: Either Jesus is a blasphemer, or Jesus is the God of Isaiah.🤨 Both options still make your book false😂!

You said "God does not petition Himself." Correct. But the Son petitions the Father🧐. This is the distinction of Persons within the Being of God (The Trinity) . You are arguing against "Modalism" (the idea that God is just one person who changes masks🤦🏾‍♂️), which Christians also reject—a puerile straw man🥱. YOU ARE BASICALLY punching a straw man🥱.

Let's take a look at Revelation 5:13, every creature in heaven and earth gives the exact same worship to "Him who sits on the throne AND to the Lamb." 👀

If the Lamb (Jesus) is a mere creature👀, then Revelation 5 depicts the greatest act of Shirk (idolatry) in history, and all of heaven is guilty of it. 👀🤨

Thus, We(Christians) agree they are distinct Persons (Father and Son), but they receive the same worship. In a monotheistic universe, you only worship God. Therefore, the Lamb is God.

Now, to your Hadith Science😂. May I ask, is the Hadith about the fly in Sahih Bukhari? Is the Hadith about the 'mole' (Seal of Prophethood) or the drinking of urine in the Sahih collections?🤨

If they are Sahih (Authentic), then "Hadith Science" has already validated them. You can’t hide behind "context" to avoid the absurdity. If the "best of mankind" commanded it and it's "Authentic," a believer's... unfortunately, that will be you🤕...only response is "we hear and we obey."

You claim I am "mining for mockery," but You are "mining for convenience"—tossing out "Authentic" narrations the moment they become an embarrassment in a 21st-century debate.😂

It’s fascinating to watch you use 'Islamic logic' to defend Solomon, while simultaneously ignoring that your own Prophet, 'best of mankind'👀, claimed to be the final word on texts he didn't write. You claim I’m 'reading backwards,' yet your entire religion is based on a 7th-century book 'reinterpreting' 2,000 years of Hebrew and Greek scripture—Very Ludicrous 😂

You say God shares His glory with no one? I agree. Yet Jesus explicitly claims that eternal glory in John 17. Instead of following the evidence to its conclusion, you try to put God in a box that fits your 7th-century presuppositions.🤦🏾‍♂️🥱


And as for the Hadiths—if your 'science' says the fly-wing-medicine and the husband's-pus-licking are authentic😮‍💨, don't get mad at me for reading them. Get mad at the 'science'👀 that preserved them. You can't call a source 'the most authentic book after the Qur'an' and then cry 'context!' when someone actually opens it. 🎯🌀🌀😂

Aitalk at it again🥱...

honesttalk21:
Q29:46 says “what has been revealed to you,” not “what your current text says” and not what you assume it means. Revelation and transmission aren’t the same. A shared origin doesn’t guarantee perfect preservation by later copyists, translators, or councils that’s exactly where divergence enters, and even Biblical scholarship concedes that 📖.

honesttalk21:
On Jibril appearing as a man you answered it yourself. Jibril isn’t Allah; he’s a created messenger. A created being taking human form doesn’t prove God becomes human it proves the opposite: God communicates through creation because He isn’t it 🔎

honesttalk21:
On can Allah enter creation? That’s a category error. Entering creation means accepting limitation. Omnipotence isn’t self-contradiction. Even your own theology accepts God cannot lie not from weakness, but because it contradicts His nature 🎯

honesttalk21:
On Jesus as Word and Spirit; preordination isn’t pre-existence. Q3:59 is explicit: Jesus is like Adam brought into existence by divine command. His Word explains the act of creation, not a divine identity. You’re importing later theology into the text and calling the result a contradiction ✝️

honesttalk21:
On Muslims in Hell, if temporary accountability is a problem, then punishing the sinless in place of the guilty is a far bigger one. That’s not justice that’s liability without agency ⚖️

honesttalk21:
On Q2:62 and Q5:69 the conditions are explicit: belief in God, the Last Day, and righteous action. Not blanket inclusion. Different outcomes reflect different criteria not contradiction, just selective reading.

honesttalk21:
At this point, the pattern is clear. The issue isn't lack of answers, it's refusal to accept them. Changing the question each time doesn't expose a flaw, it just avoids the one already addressed. The questions keep multiplying because the answers keep landing 💡

TenQ:
When Muslims tell their preferred lies, we remind them of things said before

Quran 5:43:
"But how is it that they come to you for judgement while they have the Torah, in which is the judgement of Allah?"

This directly states Jews have the Torah for rulings.

Quran 5:47:
"And let the People of the Gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein."

Commands Christians to judge using the Injeel they possess.

Quran 5:68:
"Say, 'O People of the Scripture, you are [standing] on nothing until you uphold [the law of] the Torah, the Gospel, and what has been revealed to you from your Lord.'"

Requires observance of Torah and Injeel held by them.

Quran 7:157:
"Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered prophet, whom they find written in what they have of the Torah and the Gospel."

Indicates Torah and Injeel in their possession mention the Prophet.

Quran 2:89
"And when there came to them a Book from Allah confirming that which was with them ..."


Affirms what is with them.

Quran 2:91
"And when it is said to them, 'Believe in what Allah has revealed,' they say, 'We believe [only] in what was revealed to us.' And they disbelieve in what came after it, while it is the truth confirming that which is with them."


Quran 2:101
"And when there came to them a messenger from Allah, confirming that which was with them, a party of the people of the Scripture threw away the Scripture of Allah behind their backs as if they did not know [it]."


Tell me another LIE from the standard islamic narrative since its obvious that you don't believe Allah!



Why are you scared of answering my questions?
Jibril is not Allah
BUT
Does Allah have the power to do what Jibril can do without ceasing to be almighty!?


The God of Abraham and Moses can enter into His creation without ceasing to be Almighty:
Can Allah enter his creation without ceasing to be almighty?

This is the simple question of YES or NO!



Muslims think that the more they deny the truth, the more their falsehood become real.

No wonder you couldn't answer the direct questions.

Let's force your brain to think LOGICALLY:
If Allah is on his throne above the seven heavens and Jesus is his Word which He bestowed upon Mary, from where did the Word come from? Above the Heavens or on Earth?


If Allah is on his throne above the seven heavens and Jesus is a Spirit from Him, from where did the spirit come from? Above the Heavens or on Earth?


I expect you to avoid the questions like a plague as Muslims hate the truth.



Yes punishing a sinful human being eternally in Hell for the sin of another human being is a greater injustice.

Unfortunately, Jesus my Ransom is not human and He doesn't have to be in hell eternally.

Why does Allah hate Jews and Christians this much? Could he be Iblis in disguise?



A person who claims to be Christian or Jew who do not believe in God nor the last day nor live perfect righteous lives are NOT Christians or Jews.
Matthew 7:21: "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." 7:23: Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

How can anyone Christ reject be a Christian?

By the way, how come Allah seems not to know that "Jew" is a tribal appellation and not a Religion. The religion of the Jews is called Judaism and not Jew.



Yours is an escape from answers to avoid confronting the TRUTH!
Even with your AI assisted answers, the truth is far from you.
I will ask you a question and you jubilate because you answered a different question like Hamas will jubilate after they have been pummeled by the IDF. It is the same fruit you exhibit.

honesttalk21:
Your argument sounds convincing right up until it's tested.

The Qur'anic verses you cited don't prove what you think they do. Saying what is with them or what was revealed affirms origin, not flawless preservation of every manuscript. That conclusion is being read into the text, not drawn from it.
More decisively, Qur'an 2:101 explicitly describes people mishandling and discarding scripture which directly undercuts any claim that the text itself guarantees perfect transmission.

honesttalk21:
The same applies to 5:43 and 5:47. These verses aren't certifying textual purity they're exposing inconsistency. People are told to judge by revelation while being criticized for not doing so. That's a moral critique, not a preservation claim. Confirmation refers to alignment in message, not validation of every later copy. Your argument depends on collapsing those categories and that collapse doesn't hold.

honesttalk21:
As for the repeated claim of lies, name one and prove it. Repetition isn't evidence. The Islamic position clearly distinguishes between original revelation and later transmission. That's not deception it's a defined framework. Refute it or drop the charge.

honesttalk21:
On whether Allah can enter creation the question assumes contradiction is power. It isn't. Being created and uncreated at the same time isn't omnipotence it's incoherence. Even in your own theology, God cannot lie, not from weakness but because it contradicts His nature.
On Jesus as Word and Spirit, Qur'an 3:59 is explicit: Jesus is like Adam, brought into existence by divine command. Word describes how he was created, not what he is. From Him indicates origin, not shared essence otherwise everything created by God becomes divine, which collapses monotheism entirely.

honesttalk21:
Jibril doesn't introduce a limitation either. Sending a messenger reflects order, not inability. The sender is not diminished by what He sends. He is distinguished from it.

honesttalk21:
The claim that Allah hates Jews and Christians fails against the text itself. Qur'an 2:62 and 5:69 explicitly include the righteous among them under clear conditions. That's not hatred it's moral accountability. Even your own citation of Matthew 7:21 affirms that principle.

honesttalk21:
And here's the central contradiction in your argument: you claim Jesus is not human, yet also a substitute for humans. If he isn't human, he cannot bear human responsibility. What you're left with is a divine being absorbing punishment for others which raises deeper problems about justice, not fewer.

honesttalk21:
Suggesting Allah is Iblis isn't theology it's another point where the argument collapses. As for the Hamas comparison, every question raised here received a direct answer. Announcing that questions went unanswered while the answers sit in the post directly above isn't debate. It's the same jubilation you described, celebrating after a different question while the original stands answered. That's not a win. That's avoidance with confidence. Everyone reading can see the difference.

Strip away the accusations and assumptions, and your case reduces to this: equating possession with perfect preservation, treating confirmation as certification, reading later theology into terms like Word, redefining omnipotence as the ability to contradict.

Remove those, and the argument doesn't weaken. It disappears. 🎯

TenQ:
Only in Islamic compression that a scripture with us mean that the scripture is NOT with us!

Tell me why Allah asked the People of the Gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein when the book says Jesus was crucified?

Tell me why Allah commands the Jews to judge from their corrupt book rather than come to Mohammed?

Why did Allah say that Mohammed's name is FOUND by us written in what we have of the Torah and the Gospel is books that do not contain his name?

But, Islamic Language is not dependable as it requires reinterpretation to make any sense.


Again, the Logic and Syntax of Islamic language says
When a people are criticised, it means their scripture is criticised!
People=Scripture!

Yet islamic wisdom says that a flawed people are enjoined by Allah to follow and obey a flawed scripture!

This is what is called the ISLAMIC DILEMMA!



Of course, the Islamic position is superior to the position of Allah except you can show us without Allah contradicting himself where Allah says transmission is different from Revelation.

This is self deception at best! Sorry!


The God of Abraham, Jacob, Isaiah and Moses could enter His creation how come Allah doesn't have that power?

Does Allah have the power to do what Jibril can do without ceasing to be almighty!?



Is your claim is that Jibril can you what Allah does NOT have the power to do!?

At least Angels are sinless according to Islam! LOL!!


Do you want the islamic interpretation of Qur'an 1:1-7. The Jews cursed by Allah and the Christians mislead!? Five times a day, you repeat this hate speech in prayers: why!??
Only Iblis hate the Jews and Christians this much!


If Jesus existed even in Islam before He was born, how could He be human?
But at the same time, If Jesus was born by a Human and ate food, slept and walked amongst us, isn't He human!?

Thus as not a non-Human Spirit from Allah, Jesus could be sinless and He could as Human legally take upon himself the sins of men?


Your problem is that even when Islam becomes Illogical, False and an Error, your choice is to follow it. Then your destination is according to Allah in Quran 19:71 in Hell for an undetermined TIME period.

Many People hate Light but love Darkness
Many People hate Truth but love Falsehood

honesttalk21:
These arguments sound forceful until they’re examined.

“Scripture being with them” only works if possession equals preservation but the Qur’an itself breaks that link. It affirms access while exposing distortion (2:79, 5:13). That’s not tension it’s a distinction. You’re the one collapsing it.

honesttalk21:
The same flaw runs through the Gospel argument. You’re treating every layer of the current text as revelation an assumption your own scholarship doesn’t support. The Qur’an calls back to what was revealed, not everything later attached to it. That’s internally consistent. Your premise isn’t.

honesttalk21:
On Muhammad not being named you’ve turned recognition into a demand for a specific label. The verse never does that. You imposed the condition, then blamed the text for not meeting it.

honesttalk21:
Your dilemma only exists because you keep merging revelation with transmission. The Qur’an separates them clearly holding people to truth within what they have while exposing where it was altered. Your argument survives only by erasing that line.

As for lies name one and prove it. Repetition isn’t evidence. Without a defined contradiction, it’s just noise.

honesttalk21:
On God entering creation this is where the logic collapses. You’ve redefined power as the ability to contradict. Infinite and finite at once isn’t power it’s incoherence. Even your own text says God is not a man (Numbers 23:19). That doesn’t switch on and off when convenient.

honesttalk21:
On Jibril the logic reverses on you. The one who sends is above the one sent. Claiming the sender lacks the capacity of the messenger isn’t theology it’s confusion.

honesttalk21:
On hate the same Qur’an you cite includes righteous Jews and Christians in salvation (2:62, 5:69). A text that does that cannot be reduced to blanket hostility. That conclusion only survives selective reading.

honesttalk21:
On Jesus this is your breaking point. You say he isn’t human, yet assign him a human role. That removes the basis of substitution entirely. And your own scripture (Ezekiel 18:20) rejects transferred guilt outright. You’ve stepped outside your own foundation to keep the claim alive.

honesttalk21:
On pre-existence this is where it fully unravels. Qur’an 7:172 makes pre-existence universal to all souls. That doesn’t prove divinity it cancels it as a unique claim. By your logic, everyone becomes divine.

honesttalk21:
On Qur’an 19:71 the argument only works if you cut the passage in half. Read 71 with 72: all approach, not all remain. The problem is created, not discovered.

At this point, the pattern is obvious:

possession is being treated as preservation

confirmation as certification

later theology read back into earlier texts

omnipotence redefined as contradiction

Remove those assumptions, and nothing is left standing.

And when an argument falls back on calling everything else darkness, it isn’t exposing error.

It’s exposing that it has nothing left. 🎯

TenQ:
Its amazing that Muslims treat Allah as if he is a toddler with incoherent speech. Muslims make it seem like Allah cannot be understood unless the Mothers of Allah tells us what he means.

Can you show anywhere in your Quran where Allah distinguishes between possession and preservation?



How can I help you when you clearly disrespect the clear words of Allah in the Qur'an?
Do you concur that Allahs words must be reinterpreted to make sense?




Lets see what your Allah said wrt to this

Quran 7:157
"the Messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write (Ummi), whom they find written with them in the Torah and the Gospel."

So, where in the Torah AND Injeel is this Unlettered Prophet WRITTEN in our corrupted scripture?



Your dilemma exists because Allah aka Mohammed appeared to have seriously goofed in the Qur'an.
Only men willing to tell lies can bail out the Harbinger of errors!



Infinite and Finite is ONLY a power wielded by the Almighty God. It is a flaw in the Taoheed that your God is Finite as he is a subset of the Universe.
Indeed the statement God is not a man that he should lie is forever valid.
BUT Is Jibril man?
You will insist no: but how come he appeared to Mary as a perfect man?
You are dumbfounded!

Jibril is not a man but he came as a man is an islamic contradiction according to your insinuation. SMH



Notice how you have to change the narrative from Ability to an answer for Hierarchy in other to escape your noose!

the question remains:
Does Allah have the power to do what Jibril can do without ceasing to be almighty!?



So, according to Islamic doctrine, who are those Allah has cursed and who are those mislead according to Qur'an 1:1-7


Ezekiel is correct!
Every human has his sin, thus no human can take up the sins of another. This doesn't apply to Jesus because He isn't a son of Adam!


Please shamelessly provide the Tafsir for Qur'an 7:172 and show where it says pre-existence is universal?




Qur'an 19:71 says that
+ALL Muslims will enter the Hell Fire
+It is a DECREE of Allah to first put you in Hell
Qur'an 19:72 says that
+Allah will eventually remove you pius Muslims after an undetermined TIME period
+Allah will leave the evildoers in Hell fire



Is this not straightforward enough?

honesttalk21:
These questions have already been answered directly.

What follows is simply the clarification of where your reading continues to collapse under its own assumptions.

You ask where the Qur'an distinguishes between possession and preservation yet the distinction is already explicit in the text itself. Quran 2:79 condemns those who write scripture with their own hands and attribute it to God, while Quran 5:13 states that words were distorted from their places. At the same time, the Qur'an still refers to revelation being with them. That is not confusion it is a clear separation: possession of revelation on one hand, and corruption or mishandling on the other. The distinction you claim is missing is already embedded in the text. It is your reading that collapses it 📌

honesttalk21:
The accusation that understanding requires reinterpretation misrepresents what is actually happening. Context, grammar and occasion of revelation are not distortions they are the basic tools of reading any text. The same principle exists within your own scripture. Deuteronomy 21:18-21 commands that a stubborn and rebellious son be brought to the elders of the city and stoned to death by all the men of his town. That is canonical. You do not practice it. That is not rejection of your text it is recognition that interpretation governs application. The same principle applies here 📖

honesttalk21:
When you appeal to Quran 7:157 you impose a condition the verse never states. It says the Prophet is found written with them, which speaks to recognition, not to the presence of a specific Arabic name. Turning that into a requirement for explicit naming is an external standard introduced into the text then used to judge it. The absence of that imposed condition is not a failure of the verse 🎯

honesttalk21:
The argument about Jibril reflects the same category confusion. A created being appearing in human form does not define the nature of the Creator. Form belongs to the messenger, not the sender. A doctor's uniform doesn't make the hospital board administrator a doctor. A general's insignia on a soldier doesn't make the commander a foot soldier. The sender is never reduced by the form of what is sent that is not limitation, that is the distinction between authority and its expression. The act of sending is not limitation. It is the exercise of will ✋

honesttalk21:
Your reading of Quran 1:1-7 isolates condemnation while ignoring qualification elsewhere. The same Qur'an explicitly affirms in Quran 2:62 and Quran 5:69 that righteous Jews and Christians who believe in God and the Last Day and act righteously are eligible for salvation. The categories in the opening chapter describe spiritual states, not blanket condemnation of entire identities. Reading one without the other produces the distortion you are attributing to the text ⚖️

honesttalk21:
Your statement about Jesus not being from Adam is the clearest internal break in your position. Ezekiel 18:20 establishes that each soul bears its own burden. If Jesus is not from Adam not fully within the human lineage then he does not stand within the same moral category as those he is said to represent. A non-human cannot function as a human substitute under the very framework you are invoking. That removes the foundation of the substitution claim rather than supporting it 💡

honesttalk21:
On pre-existence the appeal to Quran 7:172 does not isolate Jesus it universalizes the concept. The verse describes a pre-temporal covenant involving all human souls. Classical tafsir including that of Ibn Kathir explains this as a collective testimony of humanity before earthly existence. That makes pre-existence a shared human condition, not a unique marker of divinity. Treating it as proof of divinity would extend that status to all humans which defeats the argument entirely 🤔

honesttalk21:
Your reading of Quran 19:71 only appears problematic because it is being isolated from its completion. The moment it is read together with Quran 19:72, the structure resolves itself.

The passage is not describing identical outcomes for all people it is describing a sequence followed by a distinction. First, there is a universal approach (or passing over), then an immediate separation of outcomes: the righteous are delivered, and the wrongdoers remain. The decree encompasses both stages, not just the first half.

In other words, 19:71 without 19:72 creates a false impression of uniform entry, but 19:72 clarifies that the experience is not the same for all. The righteous are not described as dwelling or being punished they are explicitly saved from it, while the wrongdoers are left within it.

So the problem only exists if the passage is artificially split and the qualifying verse is ignored. Read as a continuous statement, the text is internally coherent: universal encounter, immediate distinction, divergent outcomes. 👀

honesttalk21:
The broader claim of corruption collapses under historical reality. If the Qur'an had undergone the kind of alteration being suggested we would expect divergent manuscript traditions, competing structures, varying chapter counts and regional textual conflicts. Instead what exists is a uniform text of 114 surahs in consistent order across vast geography and centuries. That is not the pattern of corruption. That is the pattern of preservation 📚

honesttalk21:
At this point the pattern in your argument is no longer difficult to see. It consistently merges categories the text keeps distinct: possession with preservation, recognition with explicit naming, origin with essence and power with contradiction. Once those distinctions are restored the conclusions being asserted no longer follow.

The issue is not that the questions remain unanswered. It is that the answers depend on distinctions your argument continues to erase. And without those distinctions the argument cannot sustain itself 🎯

TenQ:
Quran 2:79 refers to you
1. Is it true that Your Quran was written by the hands of Zayd ibn Thabit , Ubayy ibn Ka'b, Ali ibn Abi Talib , Uthman ibn Affan etc
2. Is it TRUE that they claimed that what they wrote was from Allah through an Angel Jibril Mohammed?



As a Christian, I am NOT under the mosaic law. The law of Moses is the basis for my faith and I follow Jesus: this is why I am a Christian not a "Jew"!

How come Allah doesn't know that being a Jew is NOT a Religion but an ethnic identity?

Did not the Quran say that:

Quran 3:50
‘(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me.



And I asked where your Prophet'swas name or described in our scripture!



Its a simple question:
Does Allah have the power of incarnation like Jibril?



You will explain taya like a witch!
Five times a day you curse and revile us as only Iblis can.
Continue!


Who is the One who made Mary pregnant!?
Is it a Joseph or Mohamed?



How you are comfortable with misinformation is amazing!
Quote the Tafsir directly


Tell me what is wrong in

Qur'an 19:71 says that
+ALL Muslims will enter the Hell Fire
+It is a DECREE of Allah to first put you in Hell
Qur'an 19:72 says that
+Allah will eventually remove you pius Muslims after an undetermined TIME period
+Allah will leave the evildoers in Hell fire



So, why did Uthman burn divergent Qur'ans id they don't exist?


That you convinced yourself about is a guaranteed path to Hell Fire!
Think and be free