₦airaland Forum

Kukutente23:
Why are you quoting me to this thread
Have you not enough on your hands blaming God for the process of ageing?
You've not thanked God for the gift of life but you blame God for the limitations of the living
Hmmm

Kukutente23:
That's how life is
You have to accept the sweet and the not so palatable

TV01:
No it isn't.
Death (and all that is wrong with the world) entered through sin. God's creation was perfect. And it will be restored. Join us .


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TV01:
No it isn't.
Death (and all that is wrong with the world) entered through sin. God's creation was perfect. And it will be restored. Join us .


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LordReed:
Eh no thanks.

Who made it possible for senescence to occur if not the god according to your tales?

TV01:
No it isn't.
Death (and all that is wrong with the world) entered through sin. God's creation was perfect. And it will be restored. Join us .


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NerdCat:
We will, after you explain how a perfect being can produce such flawed products, and then blame said products for their own malfunction rather than checking the original blueprints for glaring errors.

DeepSight:
How come animals are affected by death, disease, old age, etc if they didnt participate in sin, or is that just your Yahweh's usual habit of punishing the innocent for the sins of the guilty.

TV01:
The entry of sin corrupted the creation - specifically the domain of man.


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NerdCat:
We will, after you explain how a perfect being can produce such flawed products, and then blame said products for their own malfunction rather than checking the original blueprints for glaring errors.

DeepSight:
Animals are not robots that have no sense of pain. It is wrong to make them suffer for what they have no part in.

DeepSight:
1. Are you sure you can sustain the idea that death was only the consequence of sin? Because to do so, remember you will have to say that man was intended to live in the physical world forever. Do you wish to say that?

DeepSight:
2. The spectrum of diseases in the world is such that no one can attribute to sin. Did mosquitoes for example only begin to exist because of sin? Add to them the entire line of viruses, bacteria etc which are themselves also critical and cardinal to the existence of life!

TV01:
What was flawed about the creation or mankind in particular? A malfunction? Like in machinery . God is perfect in all His ways - no errors!


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TV01:
The entry of sin corrupted the creation - specifically the domain of man.


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TV01:
Yes now, and trains are bad because some people unfortunately throw themselves under them?


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LordReed:
If train makers could stop people from being hurt by trains and did nothing then yeah train makers would be bad. Is your god a frail human or the all powerful? Why are you using human frailties to excuse your god? It's because your god is a human invention and cannot but have those limitations as well. LoLz.

NerdCat:
Was this corruption foreseeable to an omniscient God? If yes, then why was the door left open?

LordReed:
If train makers could stop people from being hurt by trains and did nothing then yeah train makers would be bad. Is your god a frail human or the all powerful? Why are you using human frailties to excuse your god? It's because your god is a human invention and cannot but have those limitations as well. LoLz.

NerdCat:
The interesting thing about claiming no errors is that it actually makes God even more responsible for the existence of sin and the fall of man. If there were no errors in the creation of mankind, then the fall of man wasn't just a slip-up, but the intended design all along.
...which, you have to admit, raises considerably darker questions than mere human imperfection would.

NerdCat:
Was this corruption foreseeable to an omniscient God? If yes, then why was the door left open?

TV01:
Are train makers responsible for the free will decisions of people who throw themselves under trains?


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TV01:
Nice line of thinking...although ultimately incorrect.
The fall of man wasn't a slip-up by God, neither was it by His design. But, He knew it would happen, and it is dealt with as part of His unfolding plan
Ephesians 3:10
to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places,


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NerdCat:
Was this corruption foreseeable to an omniscient God? If yes, then why was the door left open?

DeepSight:
I knew it will end with so called free will. But let us examine this.

DeepSight:
1. Your God is said to be all powerful.

DeepSight:
2. Your God, being an all powerful creator has created a world and life with set choices. In other words, the spectrum of possible choices is determined by your God. To break that down for you, you cannot, for example, choose to be a rabbit today, or choose to stop breathing and still live. The choices you have are limited to a framework and a world- scenario determined by your God.

DeepSight:
3. Given (2) above your God could always have created a world scenario with a framework and set choices which preclude the death, disease, natural disasters and evil inherent in his creation.

DeepSight:
4. But going even beyond all this, your God preaches predestination and says that he in fact determines everything that happens. Do you need me to produce the verses?

DeepSight:
​Ephesians 1:11: "In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will."

​Romans 8:29-30: "For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son... And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified."

​Isaiah 46:10: "I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say, 'My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.'"

Proverbs 16:9: "In their hearts humans plan their course, but the Lord establishes their steps."

​Proverbs 20:24: "A person’s steps are directed by the Lord. How then can anyone understand their own way?"

​Psalm 37:23: "The Lord makes firm the steps of the one who delights in him."

​Proverbs 19:21: "Many are the plans in a person’s heart, but it is the Lord’s purpose that prevails."

There you go. Predestination is clear.
So your argument is thoroughly defeated.

But knowing you, you will pretend not to see these crystal clear verses just as you pretend not to see those on slavery and witches.

DeepSight:
This is laughably escapist. The same God that blocked access to the Tree of Life from fear that man would eat of it and become "as one of us?"

The same God that expressed regret and repentance over his decisions several times? An omniscient God cannot do that. That is logically impossible.

TV01:
Ok den


Yah !

Yes there are limits for created beings.

He could have - if He had taken counsel from god DeepSight - but for some reason He chose not too


Predestination for those who choose Him. Try reading from v28 in Romans 8 for example. 28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.


DeepSight the blowhard .

I have schooled you tire on slavery - will continue tirelessly .

In a closed theocracy with God as ruler, rebellion by consulting fallen spirits, demons or the devil will be rightfully punished by death. As the Israelites agreed too.

Ultimately all unrepented\uncovered sin will bring a punishment of eternal death - the wages of sin is death. There is still time. Join us. Will continue our discussion in the hereafter. I will smash you there too . All welcome.


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NerdCat:
the original question is about mercy and intent, and 'that's how life is' doesn't address either, it simply restates the problem with more resignation and less honesty.

NerdCat:
Well, that's because praising the architect for the building a structure while still ignoring the crumbling foundation beneath it is just poor structural review.

TV01:
Yes.

To ultimately demonstrate His power and wisdom. To show forth His glory. It's not just about mankind.

Ephesians 3:10 - to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places,


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TV01:
Nice line of thinking...although ultimately incorrect.
The fall of man wasn't a slip-up by God, neither was it by His design. But, He knew it would happen, and it is dealt with as part of His unfolding plan
Ephesians 3:10
to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places,


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TV01:
Foreseeable and foreseen. Planned for and ultimately dealt with.


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DeepSight:
The very fact that this supposedly omniscient God regrets his actions is enough to throw his omniscience into the dust bin.

Kukutente23:
Mercy and intent is at the discretion of the bestower
You can't tell a man how to use his property