₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse, lol! I am not surprised. I never expected anything different. You weren't going to accept what has been explicitly and unambiguously stated by and in the Scriptures. This is because doing so will not align with your desire to reduce the divinity of the Salvation of YHVH Almighty - Yahushua the Messiah, his Word and begotten Son.

MaxInDHouse:
The damaging aspect of this idea is that the wicked person has been predestined to be wicked so it's God's fault not theirs!😟

So should they be punished in hell if it was predetermined that some shall surely act in a particular manner even before being birthed?

MaxInDHouse:
John wrote this after all the events not before!

Still that doesn't matter because John was quoting Jesus word for word at that time.
He said, one of you is a devil not one of you will be a devil.
Note, He was specific, He knew one of the 12 was a devil and He was very good at recognizing devils.

dalitigator:
Absolutely true. Even Judas knew before Christ exposed him. Right?

At the last supper, Jesus Christ clearly pointed Judas out. That was also Judas took the money and agreed to betray Christ.

First of all there is no predestination in evil doing and secondly hell simply means grave everyone who dies goes there and lastly death is the ultimate punishment for sin so at death all the sins of a sinner has been fully paid for by his death there is no punishment after death for previous sins!

dalitigator:
So should they be punished in hell if it was predetermined that some shall surely act in a particular manner even before being birthed?

tctrills:
Jesus knew one of the 12 was a devil and He was very good at recognizing a devils.

Through the thoughts and actions not while there is no sin yet!

MaxInDHouse:
First of all there is no predestination in evil doing and secondly hell simply means grave everyone who dies goes there and lastly death is the ultimate punishment for sin so at death all the sins of a sinner has been fully paid for by his death there is no punishment after death for previous sins!

what about those who knew no sin but died. How do you answer that. So, no heaven?

MaxInDHouse:
Through the thoughts and actions not while there is no sin yet!

So you mean that when Jesus said, One of you is a devil, he was not being honest?
Are you saying that Judas had not committed the sin yet so Christ was wrong in calling him a devil at that time
Are you saying that Christ should have said, one of you will be a devil?
Is that your point?

dalitigator:
what about those who knew no sin but died. How do you answer that. So, no heaven?

All humans were born with inherited sin {Psalms 51:5} so whoever chose evil is only making his or her chances of survival harder because apart from the inherited sin such ones are complicating issues for themselves.

God didn't create heaven for humans to live it's the abode of spirits so that is where God Himself lives with his spirit sons (angels) Psalms 115:16

People who died due to their sins are in three categories:

RIGHTEOUS: They know God and does His will so God will bring them back as they deserve to live forever. Job 14:13-15

UNRIGHTEOUS: They don't know the true God that is why they can't do His will but they lived by their God's given conscience so God will bring them back to life. Romans 2:14-15

WICKED: They may know God and they may not know Him but they have killed their God's given conscience or rendered it useless so they don't care whether their words or actions affects anyone as long as they have their way it means nothing to them. Such ones will not be remembered during the resurrection of the dead! Psalms 9:17


That's why God's word said there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous {Act 24:15} but as for wicked people they have had all their share in life they are never coming back!🙂

Jesus never mentioned any name he is speaking with a view to what prophecies regarding his betrayal said that one of his closest confidants will betray him!

tctrills:
So you mean that when Jesus said, One of you is a devil, he was not being honest?
Are you saying that Judas had not committed the sin yet so Christ was wrong in calling him a devil at that time
Are you saying that Christ should have said, one of you will be a devil?
Is that your point?

Maxindhouse, there is nothing like "damaging" aspect in the will of our Father in heaven. But, more on that later.

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus never mentioned any name he is speaking with a view to what prophecies regarding his betrayal said that one of his closest confidants will betray him!

He didn't need to.
Even when He was asked by the apostles at the last supper, He didn't mention a name even when it was super clear that He knew it was Judas.

But you are not addressing my question.
When did Judas become a devil? Was it before or after he betrayed Jesus Christ?

tctrills:
When did Judas become a devil? Was it before or after he betrayed Jesus Christ?

You can continue with your arguments i didn't come here to address you.

When did Peter become Satan? Matthew 16:23

I already told you Judas Iscariot was a good man who allowed Satan to use him but regarding what Jesus said about a devil among his disciples that is what the scriptures foretold which Jesus knew must come to pass!

If you don't want to learn please stop mentioning my name asking questions when you refuse to quote what you're saying is stupidity!

elated177:
Maxindhouse, there is nothing like "damaging" aspect in the will of our Father in heaven. But, more on that later.

MaxInDHouse:
You can continue with your arguments i didn't come here to address you.

When did Peter become Satan? Matthew 16:23

I already told you Judas Iscariot was a good man who allowed Satan to use him but regarding what Jesus said about a devil among his disciples that is what the scriptures foretold which Jesus knew must come to pass!

To answer your question, Peter never became satan.
In fact, this is the JW explanation.
Jehovah’s Witnesses emphasize the literal meaning of the Hebrew and Greek word Satan, which simply means "Resister" or "Adversary."
So according to your religion, Jesus meant resister.
And according to your religion, there is a difference between Satan and devil.
Judas was called a devil not Satan.
Now you claim Judas was a good man when Jesus called him a Devil. You are calling Jesus Christ a liar. Is that your final stand?

And I came here to correct you.

tctrills:
Peter never became satan.

Jesus called Peter "Satan" o! Matthew 16:23

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus called Peter "Satan" o! Matthew 16:23

According to JW, satan means Resister. So He was correct to call Peter a Resister for resisting Him.
Are you saying it is the same as calling Judas a devil years before the betrayal?

This is the stupidity behind what people do, you kept mentioning "JW" to make the OP feel irritated that he has been commending a JW while you can't relate with any known church for what you are saying yet you can't adequately answer his questions!😂

Guy leave "JW" out of this matter and go straight to what you want to teach if you can't answer my question then stop quoting me.

Jesus called Peter "Satan" so when did Peter become Satan?

That's the question!🙂

tctrills:
According to JW, satan means Resister. So He was correct to call Peter a Resister for resisting Him.
Are you saying it is the same as calling Judas a devil years before the betrayal?

MaxInDHouse:
This is the stupidity behind what people do, you kept mentioning "JW" to make the OP feel irritated that he has been commending a JW while you can't relate with any known church for what you are saying yet you can't adequately answer his questions!😂

Guy leave "JW" out of this matter and go straight to what you want to teach if you can't answer my question then stop quoting me.

Jesus called Peter "Satan" so when did Peter become Satan?

That's the question!🙂

I used your religion to answer your question and you are getting angry.Your question is,
Jesus called Peter "Satan" so when did Peter become Satan?
My answer Peter became Satan (A Resister) the moment he resisted the blessing of Christ.
The above is the JW answer.
Now can you provide an answer to my question?
Since Jesus Christ called Judas a devil years before he betrayed Jesus, when did he become a devil.
I have been fair in providing an answer to your question even using the doctrine you believe in to clear all doubts.
Now try answering mine. No more beating about the bush

What is the name of your own church?

If you refer me to my church when you want to answer my question then you must mention yours otherwise there is no need to engage you further!🙂

tctrills:
I used your religion to answer your question and you are getting angry.Your question is,
Jesus called Peter "Satan" so when did Peter become Satan?
My answer Peter became Satan (A Resister) the moment he resisted the blessing of Christ.
The above is the JW answer.
Now can you provide an answer to my question?
Since Jesus Christ called Judas a devil years before he betrayed Jesus, when did he become a devil.
I have been fair in providing an answer to your question even using the doctrine you believe in to clear all doubts.
Now try answering mine. No more beating about the bush

MaxInDHouse:
What is the name of your own church?

If you refer me to my church when you want to answer my question then you must mention yours otherwise there is no need to engage you further!🙂

The worst trap is when you are trapped by your beliefs.
JW just trapped JW.
Alright, it was lovely doing this with you.

tctrills:
The worst trap is when you are trapped by your beliefs.

Good to admit that you have no beliefs!😂

MaxInDHouse:
Good to admit that you have no beliefs!😂

Don't mind that guy....I usually block him when he begins to say rubbish and go out of topic. Wetin concern JW with the discussion at hand?🤣

MaxInDHouse:
Good to admit that you have no beliefs!😂

Lol
A person who argues and disagrees with his own beliefs has no beliefs.
When a JW is made uncomfortable by JW doctrine, what is he.
Apostate?

So because i asked you to mention the name of your own church that means i disagree with my own beliefs shey?
Well i'm not here for you because i've known you for long that you are faithless!😂

tctrills:
A person who argues and disagrees with his own beliefs.

Truthseeker10:
Don't mind that guy....I usually block him when he begins to say rubbish and go out of topic. Wetin concern JW with the discussion at hand?🤣

I don't engage him because he goes off point each time he jumps into a discussion and the next thing he will say is he wants to teach everyone!😂

MaxInDHouse:
So because i asked you to mention the name of your own church that means i disagree with my own beliefs shey?
Well i'm not here for you because i've known you for long that you are faithless!😂

Stop confusing yourself.
I presented you with the JW doctrine, you lost your temper and started throwing tantrums.
You clearly do not know or agree with your church's doctrine.
According to your organisation,
In the theology of Jehovah’s Witnesses, the account of Jesus identifying Judas as a "slanderer" (or "devil" in John 6:70-71 is used to explain the timing and nature of Judas's spiritual fall.

The passage reads: “Jesus answered them: ‘I chose you twelve, did I not? Yet one of you is a slanderer.’ He was, in fact, speaking of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for this one was going to betray him, although he was one of the Twelve.”
Discerning the Process: Witnesses believe Jesus used his God-given ability to "read hearts" to notice when Judas’s motivations shifted from devotion to greed.

So you lied when you said Jesus Christ did not know it was Judas in John 6.70-71

It seems you are not really qualified to market JW on nairaland.
I see your willingness to teach but it is advisable that you study first before going out to teach.

MaxInDHouse:
I don't engage him because he goes off point each time he jumps into a discussion and the next thing he will say is he wants to teach everyone!😂

This is the same guy that told me that the bible has contradictions. I don't have time for his nonsense. Na blocking straight.

Truthseeker10:
This is the same guy that told me that the bible has contradictions. I don't have time for his nonsense. Na blocking straight.

Exactly what he told me too so when he comes up it's just to discourage any individual from putting faith in the word of God he has nothing tangible to offer!🙂

Ọmọ you don't believe in any doctrine so arguing with you is pointless!😂

And for the benefit of interested ones following the thread Peter became a tool of Satan when he decided to discourage Jesus from accepting the will of God for him to die and save mankind {Matthew 16:21-23} and Judas became the devil when Satan entered into him not before he was chosen as an apostle. Luke 22:3; John 13:27🙂

tctrills:
Stop confusing yourself.
I presented you with the JW doctrine, you lost your temper and started throwing tantrums.
You clearly do not know or agree with your church's doctrine.
According to your organisation,
In the theology of Jehovah’s Witnesses, the account of Jesus identifying Judas as a "slanderer" (or "devil" in John 6:70-71 is used to explain the timing and nature of Judas's spiritual fall.

The passage reads: “Jesus answered them: ‘I chose you twelve, did I not? Yet one of you is a slanderer.’ He was, in fact, speaking of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for this one was going to betray him, although he was one of the Twelve.”
Discerning the Process: Witnesses believe Jesus used his God-given ability to "read hearts" to notice when Judas’s motivations shifted from devotion to greed.

So you lied when you said Jesus Christ did not know it was Judas in John 6.70-71

It seems you are not really qualified to market JW on nairaland.
I see your willingness to teach but it is advisable that you study first before going out to teach.

MaxInDHouse:
Ọmọ you don't believe in any doctrine so arguing with you is pointless!😂

And for the benefit of interested ones following the thread Peter became a tool of Satan when he decided to discourage Jesus from accepting the will of God for him to die and save mankind {Matthew 16:21-23} and Judas became the devil when Satan entered into him not before he was chosen as an apostle. Luke 22:3; John 13:27🙂

Even you don't know what to believe anymore.
You made the claim that in John 6.70 when Jesus Christ said one of the apostles was a devil, He didn't know it was Judas but your church says you are wrong.

In John 6.70 long before Judas betrayed Christ, he was already a devil. Judas did not become a devil for betraying Christ, he was a devil even before the betrayal.