₦airaland Forum

tctrills:
your church says you are wrong.

I'm not faithless like you nah!😂

Oya quote where any of our publication says Jesus already knew Judas was an evil person yet chose him to be one of his undershepherds!😂

Here is what our book insight says on the matter.

Judas is introduced into the Gospel accounts in the listing of the apostles sometime after Passover 31 C.E. and about a year and a half after Jesus began his ministry. (Mr 3:19; Lu 6:16) It is logical to conclude that Judas had been a disciple for a time before Jesus made him an apostle. Many writers paint an entirely black picture of Judas, but evidently for a while he had been a disciple who found favor with God and with Jesus; his very selection as an apostle indicates that.

MaxInDHouse:
I'm not faithless like you nah!😂

Oya quote where any of our publication says Jesus already knew Judas was an evil person yet chose him to be one of his undershepherds!😂

Here is what our book insight says on the matter.

Judas is introduced into the Gospel accounts in the listing of the apostles sometime after Passover 31 C.E. and about a year and a half after Jesus began his ministry. (Mr 3:19; Lu 6:16) It is logical to conclude that Judas had been a disciple for a time before Jesus made him an apostle. Many writers paint an entirely black picture of Judas, but evidently for a while he had been a disciple who found favor with God and with Jesus; his very selection as an apostle indicates that.

When I presented John 6.70, did you or did you not claim that Jesus Christ was not speaking specifically to Judas and at that time, He did not know Judas will betray Him?
I have the receipts if you deny.

Do you still claim that in John 6.70 Jesus Christ wasn't speaking specifically to Judas?

JW fighting Jw

tctrills:
When I presented John 6.70, did you or did you not claim that Jesus Christ was not speaking specifically to Judas and at that time, He did not know Judas will betray Him?
I have the receipts if you deny.
Do you still claim that in John 6.70 Jesus Christ wasn't speaking specifically to Judas?
JW fighting Jw

Jesus believe the scriptures not what you are thinking so one of his closest confidants will betray him and that means one of the twelve.
That's what Jesus was talking about not specifically Judas Iscariot!🙂

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus believe the scriptures not what you are thinking so one of his closest confidants will betray him and that means one of the twelve.
That's what Jesus was talking about not specifically Judas Iscariot!🙂

But your church says he was speaking specifically of Judas in John 6.70-71. Do we believe you or your organisation. Choose one.
This is why I said JW is fighting Jw.
Again, Jesus Christ had many other friends outside the 12. So using your logic, there was nothing to show for certain that it would be one of the 12. He only know this because it had always been Judas, the devil 👿 He chose 12 but one was a devil even before the betrayal

tctrills:
But your church says he was speaking specifically of Judas in John 6.70-71.

Now you've started lying again!😂

Ọmọ apostle John wrote that some 66 years later after Jesus' ministry, death, resurrected and ascended to heaven not any church!😂

MaxInDHouse:
Now you've started lying again!😂

Ọmọ apostle John wrote that some 66 years later after Jesus' ministry, death, resurrected and ascended to heaven not any church!😂

So, how about I quote directly from JW sources.
If we find out you are lying, would you agree to apologise?

tctrills:
So, how about I quote directly from JW sources.
If we find out you are lying, would you agree to apologise?

Here is what JWs said on the matter:

Judas is introduced into the Gospel accounts in the listing of the apostles sometime after Passover 31 C.E. and about a year and a half after Jesus began his ministry. (Mr 3:19; Lu 6:16) It is logical to conclude that Judas had been a disciple for a time before Jesus made him an apostle. Many writers paint an entirely black picture of Judas, but evidently for a while he had been a disciple who found favor with God and with Jesus; his very selection as an apostle indicates that.

We never said Jesus chose a devil to be one of his Apostles!😂

MaxInDHouse:
Here is what JWs said on the matter:

Judas is introduced into the Gospel accounts in the listing of the apostles sometime after Passover 31 C.E. and about a year and a half after Jesus began his ministry. (Mr 3:19; Lu 6:16) It is logical to conclude that Judas had been a disciple for a time before Jesus made him an apostle. Many writers paint an entirely black picture of Judas, but evidently for a while he had been a disciple who found favor with God and with Jesus; his very selection as an apostle indicates that.

We never said Jesus chose a devil to be one of his Apostles!😂

I ask again my guy, how about I provide the JW explanation of John 6.70 to 71 to see if Jesus Christ was not taking about Judas or if He didn't know by that time that Judas will betray Him?

If we find that you are lying, will you repent and apologise?

MaxInDHouse:
Here is what JWs said on the matter:

Judas is introduced into the Gospel accounts in the listing of the apostles sometime after Passover 31 C.E. and about a year and a half after Jesus began his ministry. (Mr 3:19; Lu 6:16) It is logical to conclude that Judas had been a disciple for a time before Jesus made him an apostle. Many writers paint an entirely black picture of Judas, but evidently for a while he had been a disciple who found favor with God and with Jesus; his very selection as an apostle indicates that.

We never said Jesus chose a devil to be one of his Apostles!😂

Here you go. Please call me out if the below is not the JW opinion.

JW Understanding of John 6:70–71

Jehovah’s Witnesses teach that Jesus was speaking prophetically about Judas Iscariot, who would later betray him.

JWs believe Jesus could discern Judas’ future betrayal because of his deep insight into people.

From the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures study note on John 6:64 at JW.org
:

“Jesus knew from the beginning … who was the one who would betray him.”

The note explains that Jesus:

“could discern Judas’ deteriorating attitude and traits.”

Another JW reference appears in The Watchtower:

“Jesus could read hearts and knew that Judas was developing wrong tendencies.”

— Jehovah's Witnesses, The Watchtower, discussing Judas Iscariot and John 6:64–71. Available through Watchtower Online Library

Please do you apologise for your dishonesty?

Can you see the reason why you need to humbly learn from Jehovah's Witnesses instead of misquoting our publications?

Deteriorating and Developing is enough to tell you that Judas Iscariot wasn't a devil before Jesus chose him rather he was one of the fittest for the work of undershepherds! 🙂

tctrills:
Jesus:
“could discern Judas’ deteriorating attitude and traits.”
Another JW reference appears in The Watchtower:
“Jesus could read hearts and knew that Judas was developing wrong tendencies.”

MaxInDHouse:
Can you see the reason why you need to humbly learn from Jehovah's Witnesses instead of misquoting our publications?

Deteriorating and Developing is enough to tell you that Judas Iscariot wasn't a devil before Jesus chose him rather he was one of the fittest for the work of undershepherds! 🙂

Oga the question remains, according to JW, did Jesus Christ know Judas was the one to betray Him in John 6. 70 to 71?

Your answer is No but JW says yes.
Do you now agree with the JW group that Jesus Christ knew in John 6.70 that Judas will betray Him?

If you now agree, please apologise for lying against your church.

You are changing the subject!😂

OP asked a question regarding whether Judas was specifically chosen to betray Jesus not that along with way he developed a bad trait!🙂

That's what i told the OP before you jumped in to say:

tctrills:
It couldn't have been anyone. Jesus Christ knew who it would be even before choosing him

So you are the one who supposed to tender an apology for cutting in without knowing exactly what happened.

Judas developed that trait along the way not before he was chosen and for your information Satan actually wanted to use all the Apostles as his tool not only Judas if Jesus had not stepped in:

“Simon, Simon, look! Satan has demanded to have all of you to sift you as wheat. But I have made supplication for you that your faith may not give out; and you, once you have returned, strengthen your brothers.” Luke 22:31-32

tctrills:
Oga the question remains, according to JW, did Jesus Christ know Judas was the one to betray Him in John 6. 70 to 71?
Your answer is No but JW says yes.
Do you now agree with the JW group that Jesus Christ knew in John 6.70 that Judas will betray Him? If you now agree, please apologise for lying against your church.

9

MaxInDHouse:
You are changing the subject!😂

OP asked a question regarding whether Judas was specifically chosen to betray Jesus not that along with way he developed a bad trait!🙂

That's what i told the OP before you jumped in to say:



So you are the one who supposed to tender an apology for cutting in without knowing exactly what happened.

Judas developed that trait along the way not before he was chosen and for your information Satan actually wanted to use all the Apostles as his tool not only Judas if Jesus had not stepped in:

“Simon, Simon, look! Satan has demanded to have all of you to sift you as wheat. But I have made supplication for you that your faith may not give out; and you, once you have returned, strengthen your brothers.” Luke 22:31-32

Lol,
I have been asking the very same consistent question.
You claim in John 6.70 Jesus Christ did not know Judas with betray Him.
Since yesterday, I have been asking you if you have changed your mind about that. You said no.
I can quote myself and your response if you don't mind, let's see who is changing the topic.

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus never mentioned any name he is speaking with a view to what prophecies regarding his betrayal said that one of his closest confidants will betray him!

This was your response to John 6.70

The topic is whether Jesus deliberately chose Judas to betray him and i told the OP that the man developed a bad trait along the way.

And regarding John 6:70 Jesus never mentioned any name so no religious book says Jesus had a specific person in mind at the time he spoke what we all know for sure is the prophecies foretold that one of Jesus' closest confidants will betray him and Jesus strongly believe what God's word says!🙂

tctrills:
9
Lol,
I have been asking the very same consistent question.
You claim in John 6.70 Jesus Christ did not know Judas with betray Him.
Since yesterday, I have been asking you if you have changed your mind about that. You said no.
I can quote myself and your response if you don't mind, let's see who is changing the topic.

tctrills:
Stop confusing yourself.
I presented you with the JW doctrine, you lost your temper and started throwing tantrums.
You clearly do not know or agree with your church's doctrine.
According to your organisation,
In the theology of Jehovah’s Witnesses, the account of Jesus identifying Judas as a "slanderer" (or "devil" in John 6:70-71 is used to explain the timing and nature of Judas's spiritual fall.

The passage reads: “Jesus answered them: ‘I chose you twelve, did I not? Yet one of you is a slanderer.’ He was, in fact, speaking of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for this one was going to betray him, although he was one of the Twelve.”
Discerning the Process: Witnesses believe Jesus used his God-given ability to "read hearts" to notice when Judas’s motivations shifted from devotion to greed.

So you lied when you said Jesus Christ did not know it was Judas in John 6.70-71

It seems you are not really qualified to market JW on nairaland.
I see your willingness to teach but it is advisable that you study first before going out to teach.

This was me yesterday still consistent with my points today on John 6.70

tctrills:
This was your response to John 6.70

Maintained!🙂

Now you know you are wrong!🙂

tctrills:
This was me yesterday still consistent with my points today on John 6.70

MaxInDHouse:
Now you know you are wrong!🙂

Wrong about what my boy.
I ask again, do you still insist that Jesus Christ was not referring to Judas in John 6.79 or do you now agree with the JW group?

MaxInDHouse:
Maintained!🙂

So you maintain that Jesus Christ was not speaking specifically about Judas in John 6.70?

You are just a joke!😂

No reference work from JWs said Jesus was specifically talking about Judas all we know according to the scriptures is that Jesus believe what the scriptures foretold so he kept watching each of his Apostles to know which one exactly will become Satan's tool.

By the time Jesus knew Judas is the one the man has been developing a materialistic mindset which wasn't what he was before Jesus chose him!🙂

tctrills:
Wrong about what my boy.
I ask again, do you still insist that Jesus Christ was not referring to Judas in John 6.79 or do you now agree with the JW group?

YES!
Maintained!🙂

tctrills:
So you maintain that Jesus Christ was not speaking specifically about Judas in John 6.70?

MaxInDHouse:
YES!
Maintained!🙂

So commenting on John 6.70, the JW people say that as of the time Christ made that statement, He knew Judas will betray Him.
So, I guess you no longer represent JW.
That's ok by me, You don't need to represent an organisation to express your beliefs

Funny atheist!🙂

tctrills:
So commenting on John 6.70, the JW people say that as of the time Christ made that statement, He knew Judas will betray Him.
So, I guess you no longer represent JW.
That's ok by me, You don't need to represent an organisation to express your beliefs

MaxInDHouse:
Funny atheist!🙂

Or are there now 2 JW factions?
I used to know that JW kicks out members who disagree with it's teachings.
But the group is changing so fast these days, it's hard to tell what they believe anymore

If you are not a JW you can't know what we believe regarding deep spiritual things that's what is paining exjws they are no longer part of the organization yet they want to know what happens in the organization.😂

tctrills:
Or are there now 2 JW factions?
I used to know that JW kicks out members who disagree with it's teachings. But the group is changing so fast these days, it's hard to tell what they believe anymore.

MaxInDHouse:
First of all there is no predestination

Romans 9: 17-18
For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

Paul says God raised Pharaoh up for a specific divine purpose and hardened him. That is predestination.

So God predestined him for destruction shey?

Please try to reason after reading what you see in the Bible!

Nelson21:
Romans 9: 17-18
For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Paul says God raised Pharaoh up for a specific divine purpose and hardened him. That is predestination.

MaxInDHouse:
If you are not a JW you can't know what we believe regarding deep spiritual things that's what is paining exjws they are no longer part of the organization yet they want to know what happens in the organization.😂

You are right, I don't know your deep things but I know contrary beliefs and from what I see, you and your organisation have very contrary beliefs on the matter. Is that now accepted?

MaxInDHouse:
So God predestined him for destruction shey?

Romans 9:21 (KJV)

“Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?''

MaxInDHouse:
Please try to reason after reading what you see in the Bible!

Please try to look for a good church to attend not one that teach you lies.

You are wrong because no JW will tell you that God predestined anyone to be destroyed Jesus knew one of his closest confidants will betray him that's what the scriptures say. John wrote what you are quoting 66 years after Jesus and JWs said Jesus could read hearts so by the time Judas has fully developed that bad trait Jesus has seen it not that he knew before choosing him.

tctrills:
You are right, I don't know your deep things but I know contrary beliefs and from what I see, you and your organisation have very contrary beliefs on the matter. Is that now accepted?

Nelson21:
Romans 9:21 (KJV)
“Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?''
Please try to look for a good church to attend not one that teach you lies.

What if God predestined me to be where i am?😂