₦airaland Forum

lawani:
The bible is not just one book but a collection of books written over thousands of years with most of the authours' identity unknown.

The old testament isn't written in the language of the characters it talks about. It was written thousands of years after their languages went extinct and there are no accounts in any other languages apart from those relatively new languages. Actually not very strange because in a thousand years time, all Yoruba history written may be in English alone

When being compiled, some books were removed because the compilers do not like the contents. The Catholic bible, the Ethiopian bible and probably some other Bibles have some books that do not exist in the European bible

The bible is full of contradictions. Just type contradictions in the bible inside google

Therefore read the Bible as it will give you insights into many things but never be so naive as to think it is the word of God because it was written by mere men and it is full of errors too

But have you ever considered that the end product we have today is how God always intended it to be - that these are the true words of God? It is like, say, you give someone a letter to deliver, but you know they'll rewrite it b4 they deliver it. So you write it in such a way that after their rewrite the final product will be exactly the letter you wanted them to deliver!

Theawakensoul:
Truth should survive investigation.
Only control fears questions.


I AM - THE AWAKEN SOUL TAS.
QUESTIONING EVERYTHING.

Theawakensoul:
And truth should never fear investigation.

If God is truth,
then historical questions should not threaten Him.


I AM - THE AWAKEN SOUL TAS
QUESTIONING EVERYTHING

The Awaken Soul, you're actually wrong. No one is afraid of or threatened by "truth" or investigations, but things ought have a purpose. What's the purpose of this "truth" (you can't really find absolute truth)? Faith and belief are very valuable assets with real life benefits. They are NOT strengthened by constant questioning and investigations and searchings for "truth"!

QuinQQ:
But have you ever considered that the end product we have today is how God always intended it to be - that these are the true words of God? It is like, say, you give someone a letter to deliver, but you know they'll rewrite it b4 they deliver it. So you write it in such a way that after their rewrite the final product will be exactly the letter you wanted them to deliver!

These bible books had been lying around for centuries before they were compiled into one volume. So at what point did they become the word of God when even the authors can not be clearly identified?

Then people are converted to religion by force, by intimidation, by indoctrination and by band wagon effect. Not by reason

lawani:
These bible books had been lying around for centuries before they were compiled into one volume. So at what point did they become the word of God when even the authors can not be clearly identified?

Then people are converted to religion by force, by intimidation, by indoctrination and by band wagon effect. Not by reason

We pretend to believe in God yet we take God out of the equation of things. We have to believe that what God originally intended is what finally made it's way down to us despite all the tortuous routes.

People can be converted to religion by force, by intimidation, by indoctrination and by band wagon effect, BUT those things can't keep them converted. What keeps them converted is that it WORKED better than what they had before. And they've become convinced in their hearts of the authenticity and beneficiality of what they converted into (compared to what they had before)

QuinQQ:
We pretend to believe in God yet we take God out of the equation of things. We have to believe that what God originally intended is what finally made it's way down to us despite all the tortuous routes.

People can be converted to religion by force, by intimidation, by indoctrination and by band wagon effect, BUT those things can't keep them converted. What keeps them converted is that it WORKED better than what they had before. And they've become convinced in their hearts of the authenticity and beneficiality of what they converted into (compared to what they had before)

Christianity and Islam trying to convert the whole world do not work better than traditional spiritualities that maintain their own lane and let others breathe! People who say God is a maniac burning idolators and unbelievers in hell are not the right guys. Tell me one thing they added to human civilization other than new reasons to fight wars and hate people? There is nothing they added more than negatives ie jihads and crusades

lawani:
Christianity and Islam trying to convert the whole world do not work better than traditional spiritualities that maintain their own lane and let others breathe! People who say God is a maniac burning idolators and unbelievers in hell are not the right guys. Tell me one thing they added to human civilization other than new reasons to fight wars and hate people? There is nothing they added more than negatives is jihads and crusades

That's exactly why some people stayed with traditional religions - they found it more beneficial to them! Others did not abd stayed Christians or Muslims. The richest man in the world is agnostic/atheist who brags he has never prayed in his life. Then there are other billionares who attribute their success entirely to their faith and prayers. Will you tell them to abandon it because it causes wars (according to you)?

QuinQQ:
That's exactly why some people stayed with traditional religions - they found it more beneficial to them! Others did not abd stayed Christians or Muslims. The richest man in the world is agnostic/atheist who brags he has never prayed in his life. Then there are other billionares who attribute their success entirely to their faith and prayers. Will you tell them to abandon it because it causes wars (according to you)?

Anything that has been established to cause wars shouldn't be allowed in public. It should not even be encouraged in private

lawani:
Anything that has been established to cause wars shouldn't be allowed in public. It should not even be encouraged in private

I humbly took your assumption to Google. See the answer below.

We know at least no one takes defeated people as slaves anymore or as sex slaves. There were also nothing like war crimes

QuinQQ:
I humbly took your assumption to Google. See the answer below.

We know at least no one takes defeated people as slaves anymore or as sex slaves. There were also nothing like war crimes

In the pre Christian world, they fought only over territory but in the Christian world, they now fight over faith in addition to territory. We don't need more reasons to fight wars and even wars over territory are no longer common as it used to be while war over God continues

lawani:
In the pre Christian world, they fought only over territory but in the Christian world, they now fight over faith in addition to territory. We don't need more reasons to fight wars and even wars over territory are no longer common as it used to be while war over God continues

There is now Christian and Moslem morality even in wars. What do you think prevents Trump from bombing Iran to stone age? In the old days he'd have done that long ago. Also, an armed robber could have been converted on his way to rob you without you ever being aware of it - that religion just saved you

QuinQQ:
There is now Christian and Moslem morality even in wars. What do you think prevents Trump from bombing Iran to stone age? In the old days he'd have done that long ago. Also, an armed robber could have been converted on his way to rob you without you ever being aware of it - that religion just saved you

The US could have nuked the USSR before the USSR acquired nukes but they didn't and now they will not nuke any country or is it now that many countries have nukes that they will use nukes in a war they initiated? President Trump has announced that there will not be the use of nukes and it is nothing to do with Christianity but to do with maintaining balance and peace on Earth.
People changing from their evil ways have existed since the beginning of time and it is not something introduced by religion. The only thing introduced to Earth by religion is aggression over God and nothing else

lawani:
The US could have nuked the USSR before the USSR acquired nukes but they didn't and now they will not nuke any country or is it now that many countries have nukes that they will use nukes in a war they initiated? President Trump has announced that there will not be the use of nukes and it is nothing to do with Christianity but to do with maintaining balance and peace on Earth.
People changing from their evil ways have existed since the beginning of time and it is not something introduced by religion. The only thing introduced to Earth by religion is aggression over God and nothing else

Who said anything about nukes?? He'd destroy Iran with conventional bombs as he previously threatened - and the Pope and other religious leaders strongly condemned the statement.
An armed robber won't suddenly stop being an armed robber. The internet is full of testimonies of people who changed their ways after they found religion

QuinQQ:
Who said anything about nukes?? He'd destroy Iran with conventional bombs as he previously threatened - and the Pope and other religious leaders strongly condemned the statement.
An armed robber won't suddenly stop being an armed robber. The internet is full of testimonies of people who changed their ways after they found religion

You can't destroy Iran with conventional bombs.you can just damage not wiping off the map as you originally inferred and people have been changing their ways before religion was invented, I am surprised you don't know this

lawani:
You can't destroy Iran with conventional bombs.you can just damage not wiping off the map as you originally inferred and people have been changing their ways before religion was invented, I am surprised you don't know this

If yiu destroy a country's power plants and all oil extractors, refineries, and infrastructure, what else is left?
Gove example of a horrible person who suddenly changed and started preaching to people to be good and loving, based on nothing

PastorAIO:
Who said god arranged anything?

Do you believe the Bible?🙂

MaxInDHouse:
Do you believe the Bible?🙂

Believe as how? I believe such a thing exists. I believe it contains some historical events. I also believe it contains some cultural and mythological stories. I believe it contains some politically motivated stuff too.
I also believe that the creator is expressed in creation.

In what sense do you mean believe?

QuinQQ:
But have you ever considered that the end product we have today is how God always intended it to be - that these are the true words of God? It is like, say, you give someone a letter to deliver, but you know they'll rewrite it b4 they deliver it. So you write it in such a way that after their rewrite the final product will be exactly the letter you wanted them to deliver!

This is a cynical way to put it

QuinQQ:
The Awaken Soul, you're actually wrong. No one is afraid of or threatened by "truth" or investigations, but things ought have a purpose. What's the purpose of this "truth" (you can't really find absolute truth)? Faith and belief are very valuable assets with real life benefits. They are NOT strengthened by constant questioning and investigations and searchings for "truth"!

I actually understand your point.

And honestly, you’re right about one thing:

👉 faith, belief, and meaning can have very real psychological benefits.

They can:
👉 help people survive suffering
👉 create hope
👉 provide emotional stability
👉 build community
👉 give purpose during difficult times

I don’t deny that at all.

But here’s the deeper question:

🔥 Does something become true simply because it is comforting or useful?

Because throughout history, many beliefs gave people:
👉 comfort
👉 identity
👉 certainty
👉 emotional security

and yet were still questioned later.

My point is not:
👉 “faith is bad.”

My point is:
👉 truth should not be afraid of investigation.

You said faith is not strengthened by constant questioning.

Sometimes that’s true.

But then we must ask:
👉 what kind of faith completely collapses the moment difficult questions appear?

Because personally, I think there’s a difference between:
👉 blind certainty
and
👉 examined understanding.

One is inherited.
The other is consciously explored.

And honestly, questioning does not always destroy belief.

Sometimes it refines it.
Sometimes it deepens it.
Sometimes it removes fear and leaves only what is genuine.

Also, I agree that absolute truth may be difficult for humans to fully grasp.

But that doesn’t mean we should stop:
👉 investigating
👉 reflecting
👉 learning
👉 or examining inherited ideas critically.

Because without questioning, people can inherit:
👉 falsehood
👉 manipulation
👉 superstition
👉 or institutional conditioning
without ever realizing it.

So I’m not arguing against meaning, spirituality, or even faith itself.

I’m arguing against the idea that beliefs should be protected from honest examination simply because they feel valuable.

Because comfort and truth are not always the same thing.

And if something is genuinely true…
it should survive sincere investigation, not depend on fear of questioning.

I AM - THE AWAKEN SOUL TAS.
QUESTIONING EVERYTHING.

PastorAIO:
Believe as how? I believe such a thing exists. I believe it contains some historical events. I also believe it contains some cultural and mythological stories. I believe it contains some politically motivated stuff too.
I also believe that the creator is expressed in creation.
In what sense do you mean believe?

Do you believe the Bible is God's word?

QuinQQ:
I have a question for you and I want an honest answer:
Despite all that, it is working for people. What do you have to say about that?

Honestly, I think that’s one of the best questions anyone has asked so far.

Because yes…
despite translations, edits, interpretations, church politics, and centuries of human involvement…

👉 the Bible is still helping some people.

I acknowledge that fully.

Some people have found through it:
👉 hope
👉 healing
👉 purpose
👉 discipline
👉 inner strength
👉 spiritual meaning

And I don’t think that should be dismissed casually.

But here’s the deeper point I’m making:
Something being impactful does not automatically mean every part of its historical formation was untouched, perfect, or beyond examination.

Those are two different conversations.

A book can:
👉 transform lives
AND
👉 still have a complex human history.

For example:
music can heal people emotionally.
Stories can change lives.
Philosophy can awaken minds.
Poetry can transform consciousness.

Human beings are deeply affected by meaning.

So yes, the Bible absolutely carries power for some group of people.

But then we must ask:
👉 where does that power come from exactly?

Is it:
👉 divine inspiration?
👉 collective faith?
👉 spiritual symbolism?
👉 wisdom accumulated across centuries?
👉 psychological transformation?
👉 consciousness responding to meaning?

Maybe it’s a mixture of several things.

My point has never been:
👉 “the Bible is useless.”

My point is:
👉 people should understand WHAT the Bible actually is.

Not a book that fell complete from heaven untouched by history…

but a collection of writings:
👉 written by humans
👉 preserved by humans
👉 translated by humans
👉 selected by institutions
👉 interpreted across centuries

And despite all that…
many people still encounter wisdom, transformation, and spiritual awakening through it.

To me, that doesn’t weaken the conversation.

It actually makes it more fascinating.

Because maybe truth, meaning, and spiritual insight can still shine through imperfect human systems.

And maybe questioning history does not destroy spirituality…

maybe it helps people approach it more consciously.

I AM - THE AWAKEN SOUL (TAS)
QUESTIONING EVERYTHING 🌿

MaxInDHouse:
Do you believe the Bible is God's word?

I believe in the Divine Logos which is badly translated into English as ‘word’. The bible is not the Divine Logos, no!

I like your line of reasoning

Theawakensoul:
Honestly, I think that’s one of the best questions anyone has asked so far.

Because yes…
despite translations, edits, interpretations, church politics, and centuries of human involvement…

👉 the Bible is still helping some people.

I acknowledge that fully.

Some people have found through it:
👉 hope
👉 healing
👉 purpose
👉 discipline
👉 inner strength
👉 spiritual meaning

And I don’t think that should be dismissed casually.

But here’s the deeper point I’m making:
Something being impactful does not automatically mean every part of its historical formation was untouched, perfect, or beyond examination.

Those are two different conversations.

A book can:
👉 transform lives
AND
👉 still have a complex human history.

For example:
music can heal people emotionally.
Stories can change lives.
Philosophy can awaken minds.
Poetry can transform consciousness.

Human beings are deeply affected by meaning.

So yes, the Bible absolutely carries power for some group of people.

But then we must ask:
👉 where does that power come from exactly?

Is it:
👉 divine inspiration?
👉 collective faith?
👉 spiritual symbolism?
👉 wisdom accumulated across centuries?
👉 psychological transformation?
👉 consciousness responding to meaning?

Maybe it’s a mixture of several things.

My point has never been:
👉 “the Bible is useless.”

My point is:
👉 people should understand WHAT the Bible actually is.

Not a book that fell complete from heaven untouched by history…

but a collection of writings:
👉 written by humans
👉 preserved by humans
👉 translated by humans
👉 selected by institutions
👉 interpreted across centuries

And despite all that…
many people still encounter wisdom, transformation, and spiritual awakening through it.

To me, that doesn’t weaken the conversation.

It actually makes it more fascinating.

Because maybe truth, meaning, and spiritual insight can still shine through imperfect human systems.

And maybe questioning history does not destroy spirituality…

maybe it helps people approach it more consciously.

I AM - THE AWAKEN SOUL (TAS)
QUESTIONING EVERYTHING 🌿

PastorAIO:
I believe in the Divine Logos which is badly translated into English as ‘word’. The bible is not the Divine Logos, no!

So who arranged the "Divine Logos" ?

MaxInDHouse:
So who arranged the "Divine Logos" ?

Don’t go off topic. I’ve told you that the Divine Logos is NOT the bible in any of its various compilations or versions.
The bible is the topic so leave the Divine Logos. I’ve already said that it is conflated with the bible. You are trying to use this conflation to spread lies. Don’t!

Back to the bible, who arranged it?

HeatSeeker:
This is a cynical way to put it

Not cynical at all but realistic. You believe God is omnipotent yet you don't believe same God can get somrthing as important as his intended words (or the Bible exactly as he intended it) into the hands of people! And that he can do this through human manipulations and misinterpretations!

Theawakensoul:
Honestly, I think that’s one of the best questions anyone has asked so far.

Because yes…
despite translations, edits, interpretations, church politics, and centuries of human involvement…

👉 the Bible is still helping some people.

I acknowledge that fully.

Some people have found through it:
👉 hope
👉 healing
👉 purpose
👉 discipline
👉 inner strength
👉 spiritual meaning

And I don’t think that should be dismissed casually.

But here’s the deeper point I’m making:
Something being impactful does not automatically mean every part of its historical formation was untouched, perfect, or beyond examination.

Those are two different conversations.

A book can:
👉 transform lives
AND
👉 still have a complex human history.

For example:
music can heal people emotionally.
Stories can change lives.
Philosophy can awaken minds.
Poetry can transform consciousness.

Human beings are deeply affected by meaning.

So yes, the Bible absolutely carries power for some group of people.

But then we must ask:
👉 where does that power come from exactly?

Is it:
👉 divine inspiration?
👉 collective faith?
👉 spiritual symbolism?
👉 wisdom accumulated across centuries?
👉 psychological transformation?
👉 consciousness responding to meaning?

Maybe it’s a mixture of several things.

My point has never been:
👉 “the Bible is useless.”

My point is:
👉 people should understand WHAT the Bible actually is.

Not a book that fell complete from heaven untouched by history…

but a collection of writings:
👉 written by humans
👉 preserved by humans
👉 translated by humans
👉 selected by institutions
👉 interpreted across centuries

And despite all that…
many people still encounter wisdom, transformation, and spiritual awakening through it.

To me, that doesn’t weaken the conversation.

It actually makes it more fascinating.

Because maybe truth, meaning, and spiritual insight can still shine through imperfect human systems.

And maybe questioning history does not destroy spirituality…

maybe it helps people approach it more consciously.

I AM - THE AWAKEN SOUL (TAS)
QUESTIONING EVERYTHING 🌿

Theawakensoul:
I actually understand your point.

And honestly, you’re right about one thing:

👉 faith, belief, and meaning can have very real psychological benefits.

They can:
👉 help people survive suffering
👉 create hope
👉 provide emotional stability
👉 build community
👉 give purpose during difficult times

I don’t deny that at all.

But here’s the deeper question:

🔥 Does something become true simply because it is comforting or useful?

Because throughout history, many beliefs gave people:
👉 comfort
👉 identity
👉 certainty
👉 emotional security

and yet were still questioned later.

My point is not:
👉 “faith is bad.”

My point is:
👉 truth should not be afraid of investigation.

You said faith is not strengthened by constant questioning.

Sometimes that’s true.

But then we must ask:
👉 what kind of faith completely collapses the moment difficult questions appear?

Because personally, I think there’s a difference between:
👉 blind certainty
and
👉 examined understanding.

One is inherited.
The other is consciously explored.

And honestly, questioning does not always destroy belief.

Sometimes it refines it.
Sometimes it deepens it.
Sometimes it removes fear and leaves only what is genuine.

Also, I agree that absolute truth may be difficult for humans to fully grasp.

But that doesn’t mean we should stop:
👉 investigating
👉 reflecting
👉 learning
👉 or examining inherited ideas critically.

Because without questioning, people can inherit:
👉 falsehood
👉 manipulation
👉 superstition
👉 or institutional conditioning
without ever realizing it.

So I’m not arguing against meaning, spirituality, or even faith itself.

I’m arguing against the idea that beliefs should be protected from honest examination simply because they feel valuable.

Because comfort and truth are not always the same thing.

And if something is genuinely true…
it should survive sincere investigation, not depend on fear of questioning.

I AM - THE AWAKEN SOUL TAS.
QUESTIONING EVERYTHING.

Very well-written. But I answer you with same words I used for guy above:
You believe God is omnipotent yet you don't believe same God can get something as important as his intended words (or the Bible exactly as he intended it) into the hands of men. And that he can do this through human manipulations and misinterpretations!

As for your insistence on "truth" and questioning, if you truly start questioning, the first few questions will collapse everything: where did God come from, who created God? If God is so human-like and so into human affairs, why doesn't he simply show himself directly in a way that leaves nothing to doubt? Why do unspeakable evil and massive natural disasters exist? Why is the all-important earth so tiny it is invisible even by microscope (smaller than an atom - see below)? Etc.

Non of these questions are answerable from our human perspective (I mean answering them honestly and directly not the usual "uncaused cause" convoluted answer).
So if you consider your faith valuable and important to you, you spend your time on things that strengthen it, NOT on things that are, frankly, beyond you as a human being (like what are the exact original words Genesis?!)

Believing god is omnipotent and can get ‘his intended words’ to people does not automatically mean that the bible is such an ‘intended words’.

QuinQQ:
Very well-written. But I answer you with same words I used for guy above:
You believe God is omnipotent yet you don't believe same God can get something as important as his intended words (or the Bible exactly as he intended it) into the hands of men. And that he can do this through human manipulations and misinterpretations!

As for your insistence on "truth" and questioning, if you truly start questioning, the first few questions will collapse everything: where did God come from, who created God? If God is so human-like and so into human affairs, why doesn't he simply show himself directly in a way that leaves nothing to doubt? Why do unspeakable evil and massive natural disasters exist? Etc.

Non of these questions are answerable from our human perspective (I mean answering them honestly and directly not the usual "uncaused cause" convoluted answer).
So if you consider your faith valuable and important to you, you spend your time on things that strengthen it, NOT on things that are, frankly, beyond you as a human being (like what are the exact original words Genesis?!)

PastorAIO:
Believe as how? I believe such a thing exists. I believe it contains some historical events. I also believe it contains some cultural and mythological stories. I believe it contains some politically motivated stuff too.
I also believe that the creator is expressed in creation.

In what sense do you mean believe?

What Is the name of the Creator?

PastorAIO:
Believing god is omnipotent and can get ‘his intended words’ to people does not automatically mean that the bible is such an ‘intended words’.

Exactly. We as humans will never know. BUT I CHOOSE to believe 100% that it is! That's where my power comes from as a believer, NOT endless, fruitless questionings and investigations!
(I modified my post by the way)

PastorAIO:
Don’t go off topic. I’ve told you that the Divine Logos is NOT the bible in any of its various compilations or versions.
The bible is the topic so leave the Divine Logos. I’ve already said that it is conflated with the bible. You are trying to use this conflation to spread lies. Don’t!
Back to the bible, who arranged it?

So you believe God arranged the Divine Logos right?

lawani:
These bible books had been lying around for centuries before they were compiled into one volume. So at what point did they become the word of God when even the authors can not be clearly identified?

Then people are converted to religion by force, by intimidation, by indoctrination and by band wagon effect. Not by reason

Your argument falls apart under critical and logical scrutiny. This argument of corruption and editing is simply lafable.
The dead sea scrolls makes the whole argument of corruption fall apart.

Now u guys argue the bible is corrupt. At what point did the corruption start and when did it stop. Who decided that the corruption in the bible is enough and thus no further need for corruption.

The dead sea scrolls are oldest extant old testament manuscripts written around 250BC. if we are to go by that date, it means the dead sea scrolls are over 2,000 yrs old and possibly 400-1000 yrs removed from the original copies of the old testament books.

Now the beautiful thing is the dead sea scroll is exactly like the old testament we have today. No doctrinal or theological difference. No added chapters or missing chapters. No passage omission, addition, editing or correction.

I have the dead sea scroll English translation with me and if I give u a copy, u won't know the difference. The book of Isaiah or exodus in dead sea scroll is just like the ones in KJV or NIV.

We can then deduce that there is a high level of textual stability and preservation in the old testament books from 250BC till date. Even the academic scholars admit to this stability.

Now what this shows is there was no corruption in the old testament from 250bc.
From 250bc, the scribes were not corrupting the text or decided to stop corrupting the old testament for reasons best known to them.

So according to people like u, All so called corruption or manipulation or editing happened before 250BC.

Now my question is this. Why do u think the scribes and the priests from 250BC onwards decided not to corrupt the bible any longer.
Is it they were happy with the corruptions in the bible and felt no need to corrupt further
OR
They were bereft of ideas on how to corrupt the bible this couldn't do it.
OR
Jews started producing saints as scribes from 250bc thus wouldn't think of corrupting the bible
OR
The Jews didn't create a quality control system to ensure preservation and stability of the bible until 250BC. Thus became impossible to corrupt the bible after 250BC.

Which one is the answer. I want u to tell me why corruption of the bible suddenly stopped after 250 BC. Why were the scribes b4 250 BC awfully corrupting the text without any conscience but scribes after 250 BC choose not to.

I'm interested in your response.

AntiisIam:
Yes Sule, the one recommended for you here in Quran 10:94 Irving & Mohamed Hegab

If you are in any doubt concerning what We have sent down to you, then question those who have read the Book (Bible) before you: Truth has come to you
from your Lord, so do not be a waverer;

Porn book ahaa

Our Quran can never talked about your porn book nah 🤣🤣


Song of Solomon 4:5: "Your two breasts are like two fawns, twins of a gazelle, that graze among the lilies." (Repeated in Song of Solomon 7:3)