₦airaland Forum

AntiChristian:
Summary
-The ruler during Joseph’s time in the Bible is called both "Pharaoh" and "king."
-Historically, the title "Pharaoh" was not used for Egyptian rulers until after Joseph’s supposed era, making its use in Genesis an anachronism.
-This is likely due to the biblical authors using contemporary terms for clarity and familiarity rather than a textual corruption.
-The Bible’s lack of a personal name for the Egyptian ruler and the interchangeable use of "king" and "Pharaoh" reflect the narrative’s theological and literary aims rather than strict historical accuracy.

Kobojunkie:
There is a problem with this conclusion. It assumes that the story in the book of Genesis was written at the time of Joseph, and not much later, during the period when the kings of Egypt were referred to as Pharaohs.😒

Another point, Genesis 41 clearly indicates that Joseph was made a vice or a prime minister in Egypt, not a king, given that his position was still under that of the King of Egypt. 😒

P.S. Moses lived approximately 300 - 400 years after Joseph. 😒

AntiChristian:
➜But it is agreed that the Torah was revealed to Moses and not written by him of his own accord!
➜ Did Moses write "Pharaoh" while YHWH revealed "King"?

Kobojunkie:
1. Agreed by whom? Not written by him of his own accord? Moses was commanded by YHWW, time and time again, to write all he saw and was told in the book of the Law. So, who agreed that he disobeyed the commandment from YHWH? 😒

2. You would need to ask Moses that question. The commandment to write the stories of the Israelites came at the time of Moses, not at the time of Joseph, which was about 300 -400 years later. 😒

AntiChristian:
➜Where was he told to specifically write what he saw? And did he saw Joseph's story too and Pharaoh as the head of Egypt? Also, show us where Moses was permitted to use his own input!
➜ So who commited the error now? Moses, YHWH or an unknown Scribe?

Kobojunkie:
1. In Exodus 17:14, Exodus 34:27, Numbers 3:40, Numbers 17:2, Deuteronomy 31:9... Moses was commanded by YHWH to write what he saw, what he was told, what was happening, names of the people, etc., and he did exactly as he was commanded. Let's not attempt to minimize it in any way. 😒

2. You created this error of your own by your insistence on judging the writing based on details of a time before the writing. Moses grew up in the house of Pharaoh when the term was in common use to refer to the King. So, it made sense that he would regard the King as the Pharaoh. Suggesting that he was in error for referring to the King by the common term of his time is ludicrous.😒

budaatum:
Jesus did warn that those who read only one book shall die of their ignorance, and the other holy book alluded to it too. Unfortunately, we heed them not.

AntiChristian:
➜So this meant YHWH made the mistake then!
2. He shouldn't have done that. If YHWH dictated King to him, he should have just written King and not change it to Pharaoh! Remember Moses had the Holy Spirit in Surplus in Numbers 11:25 that YHWH had to cut soap for the 70 elders. Yet, error still dey!

AntiChristian:
An anachronism is a chronological error in which a person, object, event, or custom is placed in the wrong time period. Derived from Greek roots meaning "against time," it often appears in literature, film, or art, either as an unintentional mistake or an intentional stylistic choice.

The Pharaoh During the Time of Joseph in the Bible
1. Biblical Reference to the Pharaoh in Joseph’s Story
-In the Book of Genesis (chapters 37–50), Joseph rises to prominence in Egypt after interpreting Pharaoh’s dreams. The ruler of Egypt in this narrative is commonly referred to as "Pharaoh." The term "Pharaoh" is used as a title for the Egyptian ruler, but the Bible does not provide a personal name for him.

2. Was He Truly Called "Pharaoh" or "King"?
-Use of "Pharaoh": [/b]The Hebrew Bible uses the term "Pharaoh" (Hebrew: פַּרְעֹה, Par'oh) to denote the ruler of Egypt. This term appears in the Joseph narrative and throughout the Pentateuch.

[b]-Use of "King": In some parts of the Old Testament, the Egyptian ruler is also referred to as "king" (Hebrew: מֶלֶךְ, melekh). For example, in Genesis 41:41, Joseph is made "ruler over all the land of Egypt," second only to Pharaoh, the king.
The terms "Pharaoh" and "king" are often used interchangeably in the biblical text, reflecting the ruler’s supreme authority.

3. Historical and Linguistic Context of the Title "Pharaoh"
-The word "Pharaoh" originally meant "great house" and referred to the royal palace rather than the ruler himself. It became a title for the Egyptian monarch only later, around the New Kingdom period (starting circa 1550 BCE).

-The Joseph story is traditionally placed in the Middle Kingdom or Second Intermediate Period of Egypt (roughly 2000–1600 BCE), before the title "Pharaoh" was commonly used for the king.

-Therefore, the use of "Pharaoh" in the Joseph narrative may be anachronistic, reflecting the language and titles familiar to the biblical authors or later editors rather than the historical reality of Joseph’s time.

4. Why the Error or Anachronism?
-Literary and Theological Reasons: The biblical text was likely written or compiled centuries after the events it describes. The authors used contemporary or familiar terms to communicate effectively with their audience.
-Transmission and Redaction: Over time, the biblical text underwent editing and redaction, during which later terminology could have been inserted or standardized.

-Lack of Specific Names: The Bible does not name the Egyptian ruler during Joseph’s time, possibly because the authors did not have access to or did not prioritize historical Egyptian records.

5. Was the Error Due to Later Corruption?
-The term "error" here is better understood as an anachronism or a linguistic adaptation rather than a corruption in the sense of deliberate falsification.
-The use of "Pharaoh" for the ruler in Joseph’s time likely reflects the language of the biblical writers’ own era rather than a historical mistake or corruption.
-Biblical texts often use titles and terms familiar to their contemporary audience, even if they do not perfectly match the historical period described.

Summary
-The ruler during Joseph’s time in the Bible is called both "Pharaoh" and "king."
-Historically, the title "Pharaoh" was not used for Egyptian rulers until after Joseph’s supposed era, making its use in Genesis an anachronism.
-This is likely due to the biblical authors using contemporary terms for clarity and familiarity rather than a textual corruption.
-The Bible’s lack of a personal name for the Egyptian ruler and the interchangeable use of "king" and "Pharaoh" reflect the narrative’s theological and literary aims rather than strict historical accuracy.

Kobojunkie:
1. Clearly not! Moses is said to have written exactly what he was informed to write on. 😒

2. YHWH dictated King to him? When? Where? Anyways, if you wish to judge his supposed writings by your standard, that is on you, not him. 😒

AntiChristian:
😒 I just want you to tell us the source of error. Is it from YHWH, Moses or Holy Spirit or Jesus or later unknown scribes?

Kobojunkie:
I can't tell you the source of an error you came up with of your own. Moses lived during the times of the Pharaohs and was rightly referred to by the term that was in use at his time. He didn't write a historical epic about the Egyptians but a story about his people. So, this error of yours would be a you issue, not a Moses issue. 😒

AntiChristian:
➜But he was wrong to have used Pharaoh instead of King!