₦airaland Forum

You alone are the LORD (YHWH).... Nehemiah 9:6

May they know that You alone, whose name is the LORD (YHWH), are Most High over all the earth. Psalm 83:18

Who is being addressed here as You alone; Is it God's divine essense or one of the persons of trinity or what exactly?

John 17:3 - Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only TRUE God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.

QuinQ

AntiChristian:
You alone are the LORD (YHWH).... Nehemiah 9:6 May they know that You alone, whose name is the LORD (YHWH), are Most High over all the earth. Psalm 83:18
Who is being addressed here as You alone; Is it God's divine essense or one of the persons of trinity or what exactly?
John 17:3 - Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only TRUE God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.

The fact that Allah, the supposed creator of all things, had Isa of Islam create some things by his leave implies that Isa of Islam has godly attributes. Add to this the fact that the Quran states that Isa of Islam was taken to be with Allah--- not only did he not die but also there was no judgment or hell for him --- and you start to see something which is that in Islam, Isa of Islam has godhood attributed to him.** 😒

From the above, one can essentially argue then that the Allah of Islam is the true God of Islam, while the Quran and Isa of Islam also share godhood as they both have some of Allah's attributes within them while maintaining some level of separation from Allah of Islam himself. This is part of the Islamic faith. 😒

**People like John of Damascus, a Syrian monk, understood this fact regarding what is contained in the Islamic texts from as far back as the 8th century AD. This is probably why he rightly wrote in his letter titled The Heresy of the Ishmaelites that Islam was a heretic sect of the religion of Christianity.

Kobojunkie:
The fact that Allah, the supposed creator of all things, had Isa of Islam create some things by his leave implies that Isa of Islam has godly attributes. Add to this the fact that the Quran states that Isa of Islam was taken to be with Allah--- not only did he not die but also there was no judgment or hell for him --- and you start to see something which is that in Islam, Isa of Islam has godhood attributed to him.** 😒

From the above, one can essentially argue then that the Allah of Islam is the true God of Islam, while the Quran and Isa of Islam also share godhood as they both have some of Allah's attributes within them while maintaining some level of separation from Allah of Islam himself. This is part of the Islamic faith. 😒

**People like John of Damascus, a Syrian monk, understood this fact regarding what is contained in the Islamic texts from as far back as the 8th century AD. This is probably why he rightly wrote in his letter titled The Heresy of the Ishmaelites that Islam was a heretic sect of the religion of Christianity.

What kind of argument is this?

The Qur'an explicitly says Isa created the bird by Allah's permission, not by independent power. If “doing something by Allah’s permission” makes someone divine , then every prophet who performed miracles would be divine too.

Was Musa (AS) divine because Allah split the sea through him? Was Salih(AS) divine because Allah brought a she-camel from a rock as a sign for his people? Was Ibrahim (AS) divine because Allah made the fire cool and safe for him?

As for Isa being raised, being raised by Allah is not a divine attribute either. And being saved from punishment simply means someone is righteous, not divine. Even there's an hadith that talks about a number of people going to paradise without reckoning, by that logic, every prophet who enters Paradise becomes a god, all the people who are admitted into paradise without reckoning are gods too, this is is so absurd.

You’re taking actions that the verses explicitly attribute to Allah’s power and then attributing them independently to Isa. The verses do the exact opposite of what you’re claiming.

Duuude, how can you even bring this as evidence? 🤣 You’re arguing against the very verses you’re quoting.

pillager:
➜What kind of argument is this? The Qur'an explicitly says Isa created the bird by Allah's permission, not by independent power. If “doing something by Allah’s permission” makes someone divine , then every prophet who performed miracles would be divine too.
➜ Was Musa (AS) divine because Allah split the sea through him? Was Salih(AS) divine because Allah brought a she-camel from a rock as a sign for his people? Was Ibrahim (AS) divine because Allah made the fire cool and safe for him?
➜ As for Isa being raised, being raised by Allah is not a divine attribute either. And being saved from punishment simply means someone is righteous, not divine. Even there's an hadith that talks about a number of people going to paradise without reckoning, by that logic, every prophet who enters Paradise becomes a god, all the people who are admitted into paradise without reckoning are gods too, this is is so absurd.
➜ You’re taking actions that the verses explicitly attribute to Allah’s power and then attributing them independently to Isa. The verses do the exact opposite of what you’re claiming. Duuude, how can you even bring this as evidence? You’re arguing against the very verses you’re quoting.

E be like say either the Taquiya is strong with you or comprehension dey very far from you. 😒

Pay attention! It does not matter that the permission for the act came from Allah of Islam, as what is of importance here is that the creation was done through the acts of Isa of Islam. Allah of Islam used Isa of Islam, his spirit in human form, to carry out the act of creation. That says everything. 😒

2. Creation is not a miracle; it is essentially the bringing of a thing into existence from nothing. Allah said he alone had the capability of such. Musa of Islam's parting of the sea, on the other hand, is a miracle and does not compare to bringing life into existence. The sea existed, and so also the sea floor. The parting of the water so the people could walk on the sea floor was a miracle, not an act comparable to the act of creation itself. 😒

3. Now you are just lying! According to Allah in the Quran and Hadiths, no human being will escape judgment and Jahanam(even the Islamic prophet is expected to spend time in the Islamic Hell). However, Isa of Islam was able to escape judgment and Jahannam, placing him not among humans but among gods. 😒

4. Wrong! Allah of Islam himself attributed those things to Isa of Islam by his words. I am simply reiterating what your Quran and Hadiths clearly state. 😒

Kobojunkie:
E be like say either the Taquiya is strong with you or comprehension dey very far from you. 😒

Pay attention! It does not matter that the permission for the act came from Allah of Islam, as what is of importance here is that the creation was done through the acts of Isa of Islam. Allah of Islam used Isa of Islam, his spirit in human form, to carry out the act of creation. That says everything. 😒

2. Creation is not a miracle; it is essentially the bringing of a thing into existence from nothing. Allah said he alone had the capability of such. Musa of Islam's parting of the sea, on the other hand, is a miracle and does not compare to bringing life into existence. The sea existed, and so also the sea floor. The parting of the water so the people could walk on the sea floor was a miracle, not an act comparable to the act of creation itself. 😒

3. Now you are just lying! According to Allah in the Quran and Hadiths, no human being will escape judgment and Jahanam(even the Islamic prophet is expected to spend time in the Islamic Hell). However, Isa of Islam was able to escape judgment and Jahannam, placing him not among humans but among gods. 😒

4. Wrong! Allah of Islam himself attributed those things to Isa of Islam by his words. I am simply reiterating what your Quran and Hadiths clearly state. 😒

It's ironic that you started with accusations of "taqiyya" and dishonesty, then immediately made claims that are demonstrably false, you can do better than this, and next time, before accusing me of "taquiya" you have to bring evidence from the Quran and the sunnah that establishes whatever I said as a "taquiya" otherwise keep quiet.

You said that no human being escapes judgment and punishment, and that even Muhammad (SAW) is expected to spend time in Hell. Where is your evidence for either claim?

The Prophet (SAW) explicitly mentioned seventy thousand people who will enter Paradise without reckoning and without punishment. So your statement that "no human being will escape judgment" is already false.

You're also moving the goalposts.

Your original argument was that Isa has godhood because he created. Now you've changed it to Allah created through Isa. Those are two completely different claims.

If Allah creating through someone makes that person divine, then every prophet becomes divine. Allah split the sea through Musa. Allah brought forth the she-camel as a sign through Salih. Allah made the fire cool for Ibrahim. Allah healed people through Isa. In every case, the power belongs to Allah, not the prophet.

And you're sneaking in another assumption: that Isa created from nothing. The verse doesn't even say that. It says he fashioned a bird from clay and it became a living bird by Allah's permission. The life came from Allah, not from Isa independently.

In fact, what do you do with Ibrahim(AS)? Allah commanded him to take birds, cut them into pieces, place them on different hills, then call them, and they came back to him alive by Allah's permission, then by your logic Ibrahim would also have to share in divinity.

As for Isa (AS) being raised, being raised by Allah is not a divine attribute. It is something Allah did for him. Receiving a favor from God does not make someone God.

The Qur'an repeatedly calls him a servant, a messenger, and one sent by Allah. You're importing divinity into texts that are explicitly emphasizing his dependence on Allah.

The irony is that every verse you're citing stresses Allah's power and Isa's (AS) dependence on Him:

- He created the bird by Allah's permission.
- He healed by Allah's permission.
- He raised the dead by Allah's permission.
- He was raised by Allah.

None of those statements establish divinity. They establish the exact opposite.

At this point, your argument boils down to: "If Allah performs extraordinary acts through someone, that person shares in godhood."

But that conclusion doesn't follow from the verses, and if applied consistently, it would make multiple prophets, and even ordinary believers who enter Paradise without reckoning participants in godhood.

pillager:
➜It's ironic that you started with accusations of "taqiyya" and dishonesty, then immediately made claims that are demonstrably false, you can do better than this, and next time, before accusing me of "taquiya" you have to bring evidence from the Quran and the sunnah that establishes whatever I said as a "taquiya" otherwise keep quiet.
You said that no human being escapes judgment and punishment, and that even Muhammad (SAW) is expected to spend time in Hell. Where is your evidence for either claim?
The Prophet (SAW) explicitly mentioned seventy thousand people who will enter Paradise without reckoning and without punishment. So your statement that "no human being will escape judgment" is already false.
You're also moving the goalposts.
Your original argument was that Isa has godhood because he created. Now you've changed it to Allah created through Isa. Those are two completely different claims.
If Allah creating through someone makes that person divine, then every prophet becomes divine. Allah split the sea through Musa. Allah brought forth the she-camel as a sign through Salih. Allah made the fire cool for Ibrahim. Allah healed people through Isa. In every case, the power belongs to Allah, not the prophet.
And you're sneaking in another assumption: that Isa created from nothing. The verse doesn't even say that. It says he fashioned a bird from clay and it became a living bird by Allah's permission. The life came from Allah, not from Isa independently.
In fact, what do you do with Ibrahim(AS)? Allah commanded him to take birds, cut them into pieces, place them on different hills, then call them, and they came back to him alive by Allah's permission, then by your logic Ibrahim would also have to share in divinity.
As for Isa (AS) being raised, being raised by Allah is not a divine attribute. It is something Allah did for him. Receiving a favor from God does not make someone God.
The Qur'an repeatedly calls him a servant, a messenger, and one sent by Allah. You're importing divinity into texts that are explicitly emphasizing his dependence on Allah.
The irony is that every verse you're citing stresses Allah's power and Isa's (AS) dependence on Him:
- He created the bird by Allah's permission.
- He healed by Allah's permission.
- He raised the dead by Allah's permission.
- He was raised by Allah.
None of those statements establish divinity. They establish the exact opposite.
At this point, your argument boils down to: "If Allah performs extraordinary acts through someone, that person shares in godhood."
But that conclusion doesn't follow from the verses, and if applied consistently, it would make multiple prophets, and even ordinary believers who enter Paradise without reckoning participants in godhood.

This is an example of arguing for the sake of it. 😒

If you are serious about this, I suggest you go back through the actual conversation where it started cause I no get strength to repeat anything I have made clear so far. https://www.nairaland.com/8675798/100-god-100-man