₦airaland Forum

Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala says:

وَبَشِّرِ الَّذِيْنَ اٰمَنُوْا وَ عَمِلُوا الصّٰلِحٰتِ اَنَّ لَهُمْ جَنّٰتٍ تَجْرِيْ مِنْ تَحْتِهَا الْاَ نْهٰرُ ۗ كُلَّمَا رُزِقُوْا مِنْهَا مِنْ ثَمَرَةٍ رِّزْقًا ۙ قَا لُوْا هٰذَا الَّذِيْ رُزِقْنَا مِنْ قَبْلُ وَاُ تُوْا بِهٖ مُتَشَا بِهًا ۗ وَلَهُمْ فِيْهَاۤ اَزْوَا جٌ مُّطَهَّرَةٌ ۙ وَّهُمْ فِيْهَا خٰلِدُوْنَ
"And give good tidings to those who believe and do righteous deeds that they will have gardens [in Paradise] beneath which rivers flow. Whenever they are provided with a provision of fruit therefrom, they will say, "This is what we were provided with before." And it is given to them in likeness. And they will have therein purified spouses, and they will abide therein eternally."
(QS. Al-Baqara 2: Verse 25)

* Via Qur'an English https://quranapp.id/en

Where will the Paradise garden be?

Please show me where the Quran EXPLICITLY say it will be another earth but not this planet earth because what most Muslim say is that they are going to heaven!🙂

Explore2xmore:
On transmission, the point about Luke's contemporaries and the early Church's acceptance is well taken. Establishing authorship and general reliability matters. The narrower point is simply that confirming Luke accurately recorded an event is not the same as evaluating the evidential status of a visionary experience within that event. Those are related questions, but they are not identical.

That does not invalidate the fact that Luke and Eusebus were thorough. Peter's vision was relayed throughout Christiendom as at that day. And when you remember that Peter deliberately took other christians along with him to Cornelius' place as witnesses of whatever might happen there, plus the fact that the entire congregation of Acts 15 were all fully aware of the event even before Peter narrated it in that convention, you'll come to understand that there was nothing secret or unknown about the entire episode. You alleged lack of similarity between an actual experience in relation to a general narrative does not invalidate the accuracy of Luke's account, and by extension, Eusebus'.

On Cornelius, Acts 10 actually strengthens the point under discussion. God intervened before Peter fully understood what was happening and poured out the Spirit before baptism, before formal incorporation, and before Peter had finished speaking. The sequence matters. Cornelius did not receive the Spirit because Peter authorized it; Peter recognized God's work because Cornelius had already received the Spirit. The institution did not create the reality, it acknowledged a reality God had already established.
So the disagreement is quite narrow. Faith, the Word, and the Spirit are central. The question is whether any human institution determines where God may act. Acts 10 presents God acting first and the institution adjusting afterward.

The bolded is the norm in christiendom. God acts first, then we follow. Christianity is in no way a human institution, neither is it human-led. You can study the entire book of Acts to see this model in full glare. What can be established right now is that Cornelius heard the Gospel through Peter. He believed the Gospel, and God went ahead of everyone to seal him up with the Holy Spirit. The most important lesson here is that, man cannot stand in the way of God for His people. God will bypass you if you are unwilling to carry out His will to the fullest. God bypassed Peter.

MaxInDHouse:
This is where you failed woefully!

The ORGANIZED PEOPLE unitedly doing the will of God as followers of Jesus are the ones called "CHRISTIANS" not someone who can't be seen.

So pick your lamba if you don't belong to any known group anyone can just make the same claim as in all the many different religions claiming Christians surely have individuals making the same claim joo!😂

My dear, this is what I said:

I'm a Christian. I do not lie. I do not deceive people. I do not fabricate doctrines. I do not cut off people's statements to say what they didn't say. I believe Jesus is the Son of God according to the Bible. I don't believe Jesus is an angel because the Bible didn't say so. I believe Jesus is my everlasting King because the Bible says so. I don't believe that Jesus started reigning in 2014 because the Bible didn't say so.

I believe only in what the Bible says or directly implies. I do not believe in human formulated doctrines. I'm a blind follower of Jesus Christ. I follow Jesus blindly because I am too confident in His leadership.

Why cut off my words to feed yourself with half truths as you do the Bible? You do not have any quality of a Christian in your gathering.

Christianity is not by gathering. If the Spirit of Christ is not in you, you are none of His!

"But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

All these your talks about a fleshly gathering where lies reign and the Spirit of God is absence is just pure blindness.

That question cuts both ways. If the standard is an explicit statement, then the burden is not only on me to show where the Quran places Paradise, but also on you to show where your cited passages explicitly place all saved believers in heaven. Descriptions of Paradise and its blessings are not the same as an explicit statement about its final location. More importantly, this is still a side issue. The original claim under debate is that the Bible teaches two permanent classes of believers with two permanent eternal destinations. That is why Revelation 21–22 keeps returning to the center of the discussion. It depicts the New Jerusalem descending from heaven and God dwelling permanently with humanity. Whatever distinctions of role may exist, the passage presents one people of God in God's presence. It does not explicitly describe two eternal classes living forever in separate destinations.
So even if every side discussion is granted for argument's sake, the central question remains unchanged: where does the Bible explicitly teach two permanent classes of saved believers with two permanent eternal destinies? Revelation 21–22 is still part of the biblical picture, and it still has not been directly addressed.

MaxInDHouse:
Where will the Paradise be heaven or earth?🙂

MaxInDHouse:
Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala says:

وَبَشِّرِ الَّذِيْنَ اٰمَنُوْا وَ عَمِلُوا الصّٰلِحٰتِ اَنَّ لَهُمْ جَنّٰتٍ تَجْرِيْ مِنْ تَحْتِهَا الْاَ نْهٰرُ ۗ كُلَّمَا رُزِقُوْا مِنْهَا مِنْ ثَمَرَةٍ رِّزْقًا ۙ قَا لُوْا هٰذَا الَّذِيْ رُزِقْنَا مِنْ قَبْلُ وَاُ تُوْا بِهٖ مُتَشَا بِهًا ۗ وَلَهُمْ فِيْهَاۤ اَزْوَا جٌ مُّطَهَّرَةٌ ۙ وَّهُمْ فِيْهَا خٰلِدُوْنَ
"And give good tidings to those who believe and do righteous deeds that they will have gardens [in Paradise] beneath which rivers flow. Whenever they are provided with a provision of fruit therefrom, they will say, "This is what we were provided with before." And it is given to them in likeness. And they will have therein purified spouses, and they will abide therein eternally."
(QS. Al-Baqara 2: Verse 25)

* Via Qur'an English https://quranapp.id/en

Where will the Paradise garden be?

Please show me where the Quran EXPLICITLY say it will be another earth but not this planet earth because what most Muslim say is that they are going to heaven!🙂

You can continue deceiving yourself nobody knows you here to confirm if you are a liar in your house or community that is why your church matters most because your church speaks better regarding who you truly are.

In the first century a person may have some questionable characters but once he belongs to the group known as "CHRISTIANS" they will start watching if he is joining the group in their practices and of course they all know that if he continues with that group he will become better a person there scriptures say:

Happy is the man who does not walk according to the advice of the wicked And does not stand on the path of sinners And does not sit in the seat of scoffers Psalms 1:1

But when you refuse to mention the group name of your religion and start hiding under anonymous religionists claiming Christians today there is no way people can evaluate you.

Yesterday i was talking with an immigration officer who treated me the same way he did to all those entering his office but when one of his fellow officers greeted me in his presence and told him i'm one of Jehovah's Witnesses the man felt he has not treated me well.

WHY?

Am i not just a Nigerian like the rest?

It's because of the group name JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES in fact he was ready to go extra mile in assisting me further.

So if you come telling us stories about your personality you are just bluffing until you mention the name of the group with which you associate as worshipers!🙂

FxMasterz:
My dear, this is what I said:
Why cut off my words to feed yourself with half truths as you do the Bible? You do not have any quality of a Christian in your gathering. Christianity is not by gathering. If the Spirit of Christ is not in you, you are none of His!
"But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."
All these your talks about a fleshly gathering where lies reign and the Spirit of God is absence is just pure blindness.

Explore2xmore:
That question cuts both ways. If the standard is an explicit statement, then the burden is not only on me to show where the Quran places Paradise,

Guy the Bible EXPLICITLY say the righteous will inherit the earth and live forever on it! Psalms 37:29

So why is your own Quran confusing all of you so that you can't speak convincingly regarding where righteous people will be permanently?

But here you are questioning the Bible where everything is stated clearly!😂

FxMasterz:
That does not invalidate the fact that Luke and Eusebus were thorough. Peter's vision was relayed throughout Christiendom as at that day. And when you remember that Peter deliberately took other christians along with him to Cornelius' place as witnesses of whatever might happen there, plus the fact that the entire congregation of Acts 15 were all fully aware of the event even before Peter narrated it in that convention, you'll come to understand that there was nothing secret or unknown about the entire episode. You alleged lack of similarity between an actual experience in relation to a general narrative does not invalidate the accuracy of Luke's account, and by extension, Eusebus'.



The bolded is the norm in christiendom. God acts first, then we follow. Christianity is in no way a human institution, neither is it human-led. You can study the entire book of Acts to see this model in full glare. What can be established right now is that Cornelius heard the Gospel through Peter. He believed the Gospel, and God went ahead of everyone to seal him up with the Holy Spirit. The most important lesson here is that, man cannot stand in the way of God for His people. God will bypass you if you are unwilling to carry out His will to the fullest. God bypassed Peter.

We are not far apart, in fact your own words confirm the argument. On Luke and Eusebius the position has never been that the account is inaccurate. The witnesses Peter brought, the Jerusalem church's awareness, Acts 15's familiarity with the episode all strengthen the narrative's credibility. The narrower point remains distinct a well-attested report and the epistemic status of the visionary experience within that report are related but separate questions. Acknowledging that distinction is not denying the account.
On Cornelius your own framing settles it. God acted first. Peter followed. God bypassed Peter rather than waiting for Peter's authorization. That sequence is exactly the principle this thread has been pressing. If God moved ahead of Peter, ahead of baptism, ahead of formal incorporation, and ahead of Jerusalem's expectations, then the decisive factor is God's initiative, not institutional control. Peter did not open a door God was waiting for permission to open. God opened it and Peter was compelled to acknowledge what had already happened.
Your personal testimony of receiving the Holy Spirit on July 6 2000 without any preacher present is consistent with exactly that pattern. God moving independently of institutional sequence is not exceptional in Acts 10. It is the norm you yourself described.
Cornelius is therefore not an exception. He is Scripture's clearest demonstration that no institution however ancient or sincere can legitimately position itself as the necessary gateway through which God must operate. Acts 10 does not merely record history. It establishes permanent theological precedent.

Psalm 37:29 actually sharpens the question, not answer it. Yes, the righteous inherit the earth forever. Agreed. But if Psalm 37:29 says the righteous dwell on earth forever, Revelation 21–22 shows God dwelling with humanity on earth, and John 10:16 ends with one flock under one shepherd, then where is the passage that explicitly divides the saved into two permanent classes; one in heaven and one on earth?
Quoting Psalm 37:29 supports an everlasting future on earth. It does not, by itself, establish a separate eternal class living elsewhere. That's still the missing step in the argument.

MaxInDHouse:
Guy the Bible EXPLICITLY say the righteous will inherit the earth and live forever on it! Psalms 37:29

So why is your own Quran confusing all of you so that you can't speak convincingly regarding where righteous people will be permanently?

But here you are questioning the Bible where everything is stated clearly!😂

When i said your Quran is useless and worthless it may seem as if i'm speaking against your book. Can you now see that your own Quran can't answer any question regarding the destination of the righteous?

Please state where the righteous will inherit using your Quran. Is it heaven or earth?🙂

I said answer with that your own book (Quran) not quoting the Bible and later questioning the book that made things clear for you.

Oya quote where your Quran explicitly say where the righteous will inherit nah!

Explore2xmore:
Psalm 37:29 actually sharpens the question, not answer it. Yes, the righteous inherit the earth forever. Agreed. But if Psalm 37:29 says the righteous dwell on earth forever, Revelation 21–22 shows God dwelling with humanity on earth, and John 10:16 ends with one flock under one shepherd, then where is the passage that explicitly divides the saved into two permanent classes; one in heaven and one on earth?
Quoting Psalm 37:29 supports an everlasting future on earth. It does not, by itself, establish a separate eternal class living elsewhere. That's still the missing step in the argument.

The Quran describes Paradise as the post-resurrection reward for the righteous, not the present earth as seen in "Gardens beneath which rivers flow…” (Quran 3:133)
“The righteous will be in a seat of truth near a Sovereign, Perfect in Ability.” (Quran 54:54–55) And in authentic hadith (e.g., Sahih al-Bukhari), Al-Firdaus is the highest level of Paradise under the Throne of Allah. So the consistent Quranic framework is afterlife reward with Allah, not earthly residence.
All this still doesn’t answer the original question being discussed.
Revelation 21–22 describes God dwelling with humanity on earth in the final state. The issue remains unchanged about where does the Bible explicitly teach two permanent classes of saved people with two permanent eternal destinations?

MaxInDHouse:
When i said your Quran is useless and worthless it may seem as if i'm speaking against your book. Can you now see that your own Quran can't answer any question regarding the destination of the righteous?

Please state where the righteous will inherit using your Quran. Is it heaven or earth?🙂

I said answer with that your own book (Quran) not quoting the Bible and later questioning the book that made things clear for you.

Oya quote where your Quran explicitly say where the righteous will inherit nah!

I said LEAVE THE BIBLE OUT OF THIS FOR NOW SINCE YOU WANT IT TO BE WRITTEN EXPLICITLY.

So answer directly:

Where did your Allah said the righteous will be HEAVEN or EARTH?

Quote it out in your Quran!🙂

Explore2xmore:
The Quran describes Paradise as the post-resurrection reward for the righteous, not the present earth as seen in "Gardens beneath which rivers flow…” (Quran 3:133)
“The righteous will be in a seat of truth near a Sovereign, Perfect in Ability.” (Quran 54:54–55) And in authentic hadith (e.g., Sahih al-Bukhari), Al-Firdaus is the highest level of Paradise under the Throne of Allah. So the consistent Quranic framework is afterlife reward with Allah, not earthly residence.
All this still doesn’t answer the original question being discussed.
Revelation 21–22 describes God dwelling with humanity on earth in the final state. The issue remains unchanged about where does the Bible explicitly teach two permanent classes of saved people with two permanent eternal destinations?

The Bible God never promised anyone heavenly life what He said consistently is a resurrection which will happen on planet earth {John 5:28-29; Act 24:15} and those resurrected will live forever in Paradise on earth if they pass the final test. Psalms 37:9-11,29

Regarding this servants of God always hope to be called back to life on planet earth! Job 14:13-15

It's because the Jews polluted the place where God wanted to use as government house which is Jerusalem {Isaiah 9:7} by killing servants of God and spilling their blood there {Matthew 23:37-38} that Jesus made a promise to his corulers saying he will go and prepare another place for them to stay and rule with him. John 14:1-3

So only Jesus talked about heavenly reward and it's only for his future corulers who are limited in number that is why he needs to go and PREPARE because there was no such arrangement in heaven for that before then!

Please answer those questions by quoting your own Quran with full explanation as i did!🙂

Your explanation actually creates a difficulty for the permanent two-class framework. If John 14:1–3 describes a special arrangement for Christ's co-rulers because of a specific historical circumstance, then the arrangement is tied to that circumstance. A temporary solution to a particular problem is not the same thing as a permanent eternal separation between two classes of believers.
That becomes even more significant when Revelation 21–22 is brought into the picture. The New Jerusalem descends from heaven, God's throne is with humanity, and His servants serve Him there. If Christ's kingdom ultimately centers on earth, then the final biblical vision is one of convergence, not permanent separation.
Ironically, the passages you've cited point strongly toward an earthly resurrection and an earthly future for God's people. When combined with Revelation 21–22, they seem to undermine rather than establish a permanent heaven-versus-earth divide. The Bible's closing picture remains one people under one King; one flock, one shepherd.

MaxInDHouse:
The Bible God never promised anyone heavenly life what He said consistently is a resurrection which will happen on planet earth {John 5:28-29; Act 24:15} and those resurrected will live forever in Paradise on earth if they pass the final test. Psalms 37:9-11,29

Regarding this servants of God always hope to be called back to life on planet earth! Job 14:13-15

It's because the Jews polluted the place where God wanted to use as government house which is Jerusalem {Isaiah 9:7} by killing servants of God and spilling their blood there {Matthew 23:37-38} that Jesus made a promise to his corulers saying he will go and prepare another place for them to stay and rule with him. John 14:1-3

So only Jesus talked about heavenly reward and it's only for his future corulers who are limited in number that is why he needs to go and PREPARE because there was no such arrangement in heaven for that before then!

Please answer those questions by quoting your own Quran with full explanation as i did!🙂

The Quran has already answered that question. Surah 54:54–55 places the righteous in a seat of truth near the Sovereign, and authentic hadith places Al-Firdaus beneath the Throne of Allah. The answer is clear: Paradise is an afterlife, heavenly reward.
So on the location of Paradise between heaven and earth, the Islamic sources already provide a direct answer. The discussion is not unresolved on that point. The texts themselves place the final reward of the righteous with Allah in the Hereafter.

MaxInDHouse:
I said LEAVE THE BIBLE OUT OF THIS FOR NOW SINCE YOU WANT IT TO BE WRITTEN EXPLICITLY.

So answer directly:

Where did your Allah said the righteous will be HEAVEN or EARTH?

Quote it out in your Quran!🙂

How do we not refer to the Bible when the text being reviewed is the Bible?

Explore2xmore:
The Quran has already answered that question. Surah 54:54–55 places the righteous in a seat of truth near the Sovereign, and authentic hadith places Al-Firdaus beneath the Throne of Allah. The answer is clear: Paradise is an afterlife, heavenly reward.
So on the location of Paradise between heaven and earth, the Islamic sources already provide a direct answer. The discussion is not unresolved on that point. The texts themselves place the final reward of the righteous with Allah in the Hereafter.

I don't want all this story just go straight to the point and quote it from your Quran.

Explore2xmore:
The Quran then consistently describes Paradise (Jannah) as a reward after resurrection and judgment, not the present earth. So the pattern is: earthly creation → temporary Garden → earthly life → final Paradise in the afterlife.

Where exactly did your Allah say the righteous will live forever?

Heaven or Earth?😂

MaxInDHouse:
I don't want all this story just go straight to the point and quote it from your Quran.



Where exactly did your Allah say the righteous will live forever?

Heaven or Earth?😂

Heaven. Surah 54:54-55 and Sahih Al-Bukhari on Al-Firdaus both confirm it explicitly. The Quran says heaven. Your Bible says earth. Revelation 21-22 still awaits your response.

Explore2xmore:
Heaven. Surah 54:54-55 and Sahih Al-Bukhari on Al-Firdaus both confirm it explicitly. The Quran says heaven. Your Bible says earth. Revelation 21-22 still awaits your response.

This is what is found written in your Quran and heaven wasn't EXPLICITLY STATED
Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala says:
اِنَّ الْمُتَّقِيْنَ فِيْ جَنّٰتٍ وَّنَهَرٍ
"Indeed, the righteous will be among gardens and rivers,"
فِيْ مَقْعَدِ صِدْقٍ عِنْدَ مَلِيْكٍ مُّقْتَدِرٍ
"In a seat of honor near a Sovereign, Perfect in Ability"
(QS. Al-Qamar 54: Verse 54-55)

Of course i won't take any other Muslim seriously but you so don't think i will bring in any contrary opinion from other Muslims. Let's use your own interpretation!🙂

Now if your Allah created Adam and Eve on planet earth what led to taking Adam's descendants to heaven?

Did your Allah missed his purpose or humans changed his mind on where they should live forever?🙂

Explore2xmore:
We are not far apart, in fact your own words confirm the argument. On Luke and Eusebius the position has never been that the account is inaccurate. The witnesses Peter brought, the Jerusalem church's awareness, Acts 15's familiarity with the episode all strengthen the narrative's credibility. The narrower point remains distinct a well-attested report and the epistemic status of the visionary experience within that report are related but separate questions. Acknowledging that distinction is not denying the account.
On Cornelius your own framing settles it. God acted first. Peter followed. God bypassed Peter rather than waiting for Peter's authorization. That sequence is exactly the principle this thread has been pressing. If God moved ahead of Peter, ahead of baptism, ahead of formal incorporation, and ahead of Jerusalem's expectations, then the decisive factor is God's initiative, not institutional control. Peter did not open a door God was waiting for permission to open. God opened it and Peter was compelled to acknowledge what had already happened.
Your personal testimony of receiving the Holy Spirit on July 6 2000 without any preacher present is consistent with exactly that pattern. God moving independently of institutional sequence is not exceptional in Acts 10. It is the norm you yourself described.
Cornelius is therefore not an exception. He is Scripture's clearest demonstration that no institution however ancient or sincere can legitimately position itself as the necessary gateway through which God must operate. Acts 10 does not merely record history. It establishes permanent theological precedent.

Exactly. I only want to make one clarification each on the two questions raised in the discussion:

1. That Eusebus' claim of Luke's audience with Peter can be considered overwhelmingly authentic- going by what we have discussed so far. Luke himself clarified in Luke 1 that he made thorough research from the very first disciples before penning anything.

2. That Cornelius' salvation experience did not happen anytime before Acts 10. It happened as Peter preached. God bypassed Peter to seal him up because Peter wouldn't have done it.

MaxInDHouse:
You can continue deceiving yourself nobody knows you here to confirm if you are a liar in your house or community that is why your church matters most because your church speaks better regarding who you truly are.

In the first century a person may have some questionable characters but once he belongs to the group known as "CHRISTIANS" they will start watching if he is joining the group in their practices and of course they all know that if he continues with that group he will become better a person there scriptures say:

Happy is the man who does not walk according to the advice of the wicked And does not stand on the path of sinners And does not sit in the seat of scoffers Psalms 1:1

But when you refuse to mention the group name of your religion and start hiding under anonymous religionists claiming Christians today there is no way people can evaluate you.

Yesterday i was talking with an immigration officer who treated me the same way he did to all those entering his office but when one of his fellow officers greeted me in his presence and told him i'm one of Jehovah's Witnesses the man felt he has not treated me well.

WHY?

Am i not just a Nigerian like the rest?

It's because of the group name JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES in fact he was ready to go extra mile in assisting me further.

So if you come telling us stories about your personality you are just bluffing until you mention the name of the group with which you associate as worshipers!🙂

It's not a matter of a gathering dear.

"But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." Romans 8:9.

No matter how good you may think your character is, if the Spirit of Christ is not dwelling in you, forget it. You're none of His.

FxMasterz:
It's not a matter of a gathering dear.
"But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." Romans 8:9.
No matter how good you may think your character is, if the Spirit of Christ is not dwelling in you, forget it. You're none of His.

So the same applies to you!

Now what was the evidence Jesus gave as future signs that will help his disciples know that they truly belong to him?

Mind you the first is they must be one as a united family {Mark 10:28-30} they must form a group {Matthew 18:20} they must have love among themselves as one group {John 13:34-35} Jesus himself presented his fellow believers as his spiritual family! Matthew 12:46-50

Was Jesus talking about perfection when he pointed to those having the same line of thought with him?

NO!

So if you can't present any group as your fellow worshipers you are not in that same man called Christ Jesus!🙂

MaxInDHouse:
So the same applies to you!

Now what was the evidence Jesus gave as future signs that will help his disciples know that they truly belong to him?

Mind you the first is they must be one as a united family {Mark 10:28-30} they must form a group {Matthew 18:20} they must have love among themselves as one group {John 13:34-35} Jesus himself presented his fellow believers as his spiritual family! Matthew 12:46-50

Was Jesus talking about perfection when he pointed to those having the same line of thought with him?

NO!

So if you can't present any group as your fellow worshipers you are not in that same man called Christ Jesus!🙂

If Jesus was talking about perfection, is a lying organization perfect? Lol.

Do you have the Spirit of God in you? Your lying organization does not even believe in the indwelling Presence of the Holy Spirit, let alone the Baptism.

FxMasterz:
If Jesus was talking about perfection, is a lying organization perfect? Lol.
Do you have the Spirit of God in you? Your lying organization does not even believe in the indwelling Presence of the Holy Spirit, let alone the Baptism.

The same way Jews used dogmas to disqualify Jesus and his disciples nah!🙂

To the Jews Jesus and his disciples were liars but there is no better performing group to present just as you don't have any to mention now!🙂

MaxInDHouse:
The same way Jews used dogmas to disqualify Jesus and his disciples nah!🙂

To the Jews Jesus and his disciples were liars but there is no better performing group to present just as you don't have any to mention now!🙂

Is the Bible dogma to you? You don't value your soul?

If Jesus was talking about perfection, is a lying organization perfect?

Do you have the Spirit of God in you? Your lying organization does not even believe in the indwelling Presence of the Holy Spirit, let alone the Baptism.

The Bible says if the Spirit of Christ is not in you, you do not belong to Him. Romans 8:9. Is the Spirit of Christ in you? If no, you are none of His according to the Scriptures.

FxMasterz:
Is the Bible dogma to you? You don't value your soul? If Jesus was talking about perfection, is a lying organization perfect? Do you have the Spirit of God in you? Your lying organization does not even believe in the indwelling Presence of the Holy Spirit, let alone the Baptism. The Bible says if the Spirit of Christ is not in you, you do not belong to Him. Romans 8:9. Is the Spirit of Christ in you? If no, you are none of His according to the Scriptures.

Sebi the so called indwelling is in you shey?😂

Keep on deceiving yourself when there is no group of worshipers to present as your fellow believers!😂

MaxInDHouse:
Sebi the so called indwelling is in you shey?😂

Keep on deceiving yourself when there is no group of worshipers to present as your fellow believers!😂

No, the Bible didn't say anyone who does not present a group of worshipers aa fellow believers is deceiving himself. Did the Bible say so? But the one who has no indwelling Presence of the Holy Spirit is deceiving himself according to the Bible.

",...if the Spirit or Christ is not in you, you are none of His "

FxMasterz:
No, the Bible didn't say anyone who does not present a group of worshipers aa fellow believers is deceiving himself. Did the Bible say so?

Jesus said so!
Each Pharisee, Sadducee and Scribe was claiming they have holy spirit nah!

Their problem is they can't present any better performing group than Jesus' disciples because it's performance that serves as evidence of God's holy spirit that is what Peter presented as evidence of God's holy spirit with the disciples of Christ! Act 2:16-18🙂

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus said so!
Each Pharisee, Sadducee and Scribe was claiming they have holy spirit nah!

No, each Pharisee never claimed to have Holy Spirit.

Their problem is they can't present any better performing group than Jesus' disciples because it's performance that serves as evidence of God's holy spirit that is what Peter presented as evidence of God's holy spirit with the disciples of Christ! Act 2:16-18🙂

No, your lying group is not performing anything.

FxMasterz:
No, each Pharisee never claimed to have Holy Spirit.

When the Pharisees said about Jesus:

“This fellow does not expel the demons except by means of Be·elʹze·bub, the ruler of the demons.” Matthew 12:25

What spirit are they claiming that's in them?🤔

FxMasterz:
No, your lying group is not performing anything.

Jesus said:
“You are the light of the world. A city cannot be hid when located on a mountain. People light a lamp and set it, not under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it shines on all those in the house. Likewise, let your light shine before men, so that they may see your fine works and give glory to your Father who is in the heavens. Matthew 5:14-16

freethinker01:
Tho I don't like their disturbance, I'd have to say they're far better than all their Christian tithe whoring counterparts.

BafanaBafana:
Quite true. JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES are actually one of the few denominations who are still following Christ. Most churches now are headed by motivational speakers who only use the name of Jesus to preach other things. The goal is to attract members to their church and the members will bring the money.
Shikena!

APOPTOSIS:
JEHOVAH'S WITNESS is operating at a different level.
They have been steadfast, resolute and committed.
I hold no grudge against them. They downplay commercialization of churches.
They entertain persecutions a lot, in fact more than several Christian bodies.
Seems in their church everyone is at same level irrespective of your degree, financial acquaintance and contacts.
And it seems they obey the Bible the most:
-They hardly disturb neighbors during prayers.
-They frown at intimidation and flamboyant lifestyles.
-They ensure financial gifts are covered and never displeased at whatever they recieve.
-Their members would make good politicians but they frown at politics
I respect them. I judge based on actions and not what I'm told.

Oye0404:
well said, once had a witness DAT comes around for years, truth is,dis guys are so caring and accommodating. lots if misconceptions about dem..

XXLDICK:
They remain the most peaceful Christian denomination.
They do not pay tithes. They are the only Christian denomination yet to be commercialized. They are my favourite.
Cons:
They do not recite the national anthem.
They do not participate in elections.
They do not accept blood transfusion.

boss1310:
The way they are hated makes me to think sometimes they might be the true Christians but I might be wrong.

Love800:
I would love to be a JEHOVAH'S WITNESS, because of their gentle life. Relaxed service and programs(not those stressful and loud types), and serenity of their church yard. Infact, its this serenity of their abode that blows my mind!

But the thing that worries me, is their misled teachings. How can you say that we are not going to die, but remain on earth and unite with our love ones and live happily together forever!

Deway52:
I am convinced that JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES are the real religion, they do everything in line with the bible.
Na small time remain for me now, I don enter. If everybody in the world is a jw the world would be a better place.

DeepSight:
I am not sure the respect JWs have is on account of what you say. It is more on account of their general simplicity, general adherence to bible truth, and the fact that no one can accuse them of being commercialised or money or power focused like most other denominations are. Alot of people see a purity in them which is lacking in many other places. I should know, for as I told you, in my youth, I used to be one.

HardMirror:
unfortunately, JW are the best Christians if we will be honest.

MaxInDHouse:
When the Pharisees said about Jesus:

“This fellow does not expel the demons except by means of Be·elʹze·bub, the ruler of the demons.” Matthew 12:25

What spirit are they claiming that's in them?

No. They didn't claim to possess any spirit, neither did they claim that Jesus has any spirit in Him. They only claimed a spirit was helping Him. That does not mean the spirit is in Him.

Jesus said:
“You are the light of the world. A city cannot be hid when located on a mountain. People light a lamp and set it, not under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it shines on all those in the house. Likewise, let your light shine before men, so that they may see your fine works and give glory to your Father who is in the heavens. Matthew 5:14-16

Many people want to become witches too. Many want to join Boko haram. There were many bandits recruit ongoing right now. And many are joining church of Satan. What's joining a lying JW organization any different?

The matter is that no one can have the Spirit of Jesus except he is a follower of Christ. You can even do good works. Everyone can do it. But the single differentiator that no one can do is to have the Spirit of Christ which is given by God alone.

My dear, the Bible says if you don't have the Spirit of Christ, you don't belong to Christ. Do you think this Word of God is a lie?

You're assuming more than the Quran explicitly says. Quran 54:54–55 states that the righteous will be in gardens and rivers, near a Sovereign, Perfect in Ability. It does not specifically say this is the same heaven from which Adam was sent down. That conclusion comes from reading multiple texts together. The Quran also makes it clear that earth was part of Allah's plan from the beginning; I will place a khalifah (representative) on the earth (Quran 2:30). That was declared before Adam's creation.
And that's really the point. Adam's story explains humanity's origin and purpose on earth. By itself, it does not establish two permanent classes of saved people with two different eternal destinations. The original question therefore remain where is that doctrine explicitly taught in your Bible?

MaxInDHouse:
This is what is found written in your Quran and heaven wasn't EXPLICITLY STATED
Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala says:
اِنَّ الْمُتَّقِيْنَ فِيْ جَنّٰتٍ وَّنَهَرٍ
"Indeed, the righteous will be among gardens and rivers,"
فِيْ مَقْعَدِ صِدْقٍ عِنْدَ مَلِيْكٍ مُّقْتَدِرٍ
"In a seat of honor near a Sovereign, Perfect in Ability"
(QS. Al-Qamar 54: Verse 54-55)

Of course i won't take any other Muslim seriously but you so don't think i will bring in any contrary opinion from other Muslims. Let's use your own interpretation!🙂

Now if your Allah created Adam and Eve on planet earth what led to taking Adam's descendants to heaven?

Did your Allah missed his purpose or humans changed his mind on where they should live forever?🙂

FxMasterz:
No. They didn't claim to possess any spirit, neither did they claim that Jesus has any spirit in Him. They only claimed a spirit was helping Him. That does not mean the spirit is in Him.

So according to them Beelzebub is only following Jesus shey?
It's obvious you don't lie!🙂

FxMasterz:
Many people want to become witches too. Many want to join Boko haram. There were many bandits recruit ongoing right now. And many are joining church of Satan. What's joining a lying JW organization any different?
The matter is that no one can have the Spirit of Jesus except he is a follower of Christ. You can even do good works. Everyone can do it. But the single differentiator that no one can do is to have the Spirit of Christ which is given by God alone. My dear, the Bible says if you don't have the Spirit of Christ, you don't belong to Christ. Do you think this Word of God is a lie?

At least they joined what seems virtuous to them nah!🙂

When i told you that your Quran is just one useless and worthless book it may seem as if i was exaggerating things shey?😂

Oya look at where your Quran landed you:

Explore2xmore:
It does not specifically say this is the same heaven from which Adam was sent down.

Explore2xmore:
Adam and Eve were created on earth. That's not in dispute.

Please where exactly did your Quran say your Allah created Adam and Eve?

Do you now see that you have started disputing with yourself on where Adam and Eve were created?😂

MaxInDHouse:
So according to them Beelzebub is only following Jesus shey?
It's obvious you don't lie!🙂

Give me any instance that demonstrates the Jews believe Belzebub was inside Jesus.

At least they joined what seems virtuous to them nah!🙂

The same way you also joined what seemed virtuous to you.

But what seems virtuous to man does not necessarily seem virtuous to God.

To God, "If you have not the Spirit of Christ, you're none of His"