₦airaland Forum

Truvelisback:
Healing the sick and raising the dead are two different things. Raising the dead is another dimension. It's classified as wonders or miracles. Although we also have the miracle of healing. In raising the dead, the faith of dead is inactive but it's the faith of the minister that raises the dead through prayer and faith in God. Raising is even tougher because it takes courage or strong faith in God to do so.

So if the faith of the dead is inactive, does that not show that miracles can happen without the faith of the receiver?

ItShallPass:
Doubt is the obstruction. And infact, it's a sin.

A dead man has neither faith nor doubt, God can act on him as he can on only other none living objects. Did the clay need to have faith or doubt for God to a man of it?

You're really ignorant. A dead man has no will of himself. God will use do as He pleases with him.

As a living man, you can not have doubt and still have faith. You must have have one of the two. A dead man has nothing. God's mercy is all that matters.

So how does your above statement counter the fact that faith is not needed to perform a miracle?

Truthseeker10:
So how does your above statement counter the fact that faith is not needed to perform a miracle?

They misunderstood Jesus when he talked to his own disciples who wants to drive out demons but their faith is not solid!

Truthseeker10:
So how does your above statement counter the fact that faith is not needed to perform a miracle?

If faith is not needed, what is the absence of faith?

Or, are you just arguing for arguments sake?

A dead person has neither faith nor doubt.

A living person who has no doubt has faith.

A living person who has no faith has doubt.

So, think we'll before you respond.

MaxInDHouse:
Do you know the difference between God doing something and humans claiming God is doing it?
Guy no dey deceived yourself there's no God that works miracles like Jehovah our God.
Evidence dey yanfu yanfu no be mouth!😂

Yeah, Jehovah is a miracle working God

No evidence that Jehovah God is in your midst.

ItShallPass:
If faith is not needed, what is the absence of faith?

Or, are you just arguing for arguments sake?

A dead person has neither faith nor doubt.

A living person who has no doubt has faith.

A living person who has no faith has doubt.

So, think we'll before you respond.

You are the one who needs the thinking. The argument is if faith is needed by a receiver of miracle. Your argument is that faith is a must. So how does your logic of faith is a must apply in the case of a dead person?

Below in the screenshot is the evidence that your logic is flawed.

Truthseeker10:
You are the one who needs the thinking. The argument is if faith is needed by a receiver of miracle. Your argument is that faith is a must. So how does your logic of faith is a must apply in the case of a dead person?

Below in the screenshot is the evidence that your logic is flawed.

You are confusing things..

A dead person is dead. They cannot exercise anything either faith or doubt.

It's the person praying for them that can exercise faith or doubt.

It's simple

Truthseeker10:
You are the one who needs the thinking. The argument is if faith is needed by a receiver of miracle. Your argument is that faith is a must. So how does your logic of faith is a must apply in the case of a dead person?

Below in the screenshot is the evidence that your logic is flawed.

Faith is a must for a living person because, in the absence of faith, there'll be doubt. There's no way a living person has neither faith nor doubt. The absence of one is the present of the other.

Think!

Why is Thomas called doubting Thomas? Because he had no faith. In fact , Jesus told him in John 20:27:

"And be not faithless, but believing."

Faithlessness means doubtfulness. And that doubt is a miracle blocker. It displeases God.

Hebrews 11:6
"And without faith it is impossible to please God,"

ItShallPass:
Yeah, Jehovah is a miracle working God
No evidence that Jehovah God is in your midst.

How do you distinguish between stage managed tricks and real miracles?🙂

I just told you that real miracles happens in our gathering because we know when God decides to intervene in certain events but what you prefer is shows like entertainment.

For your information Jehovah does not perform miracles for entertaining viewers or advertisement rather it's when His worshipers are in need of help that He provides in supernatural ways.

So when i say real miracles do occur in our midst i'm not telling you we will invite you to come and watch our shows o!🥱

BennyDGreat:
You are confusing things.. A dead person is dead. They cannot exercise anything either faith or doubt. It's the person praying for them that can exercise faith or doubt. It's simple

Obviously you are not getting the gist.

What we are saying here is that in terms of real miracles nothing stops God from doing His work but these people are saying Jesus needs the faith of people to heal them because that is the lies their fake prophets do tell them when they are faced with real sick people.

We know that the only thing any person who is sick needs is to see Jesus and ask for help miracles is certain but this people are lying for their pastors who can't perform real miracles while hiding behind stage managed shows using actors!🥱

MaxInDHouse:
How do you distinguish between stage managed tricks and real miracles?🙂

I just told you that real miracles happens in our gathering because we know when God decides to intervene in certain events but what you prefer is shows like entertainment.

For your information Jehovah does not perform miracles for entertaining viewers or advertisement rather it's when His worshipers are in need of help that He provides in supernatural ways.

So when i say real miracles do occur in our midst i'm not telling you we will invite you to come and watch our shows o!🥱

You can't even differentiate fake Christians from genuine ones. Which Christian does miracles for show if not a fake one? There are real miracles. You can choose to believe or not to believe. It does not stop God from doing His work.

ItShallPass:
You can't even differentiate fake Christians from genuine ones.

Real Christians are Jehovah's Witnesses while fake are Christendom.

Evidence!
*Real Christians are disciples of Christ that always set times apart to preach and teach in their neighborhood just as Jesus commanded all of them {Matthew 28:18-20} they move as a group but in pairs they approach their audience {Luke 10:1} this is in line with what the scriptures says that two are better than one person. Ecclesiastes 4:9
*Real disciples of Christ believe the same teachings and judge matters the same way using the scriptures. Romans 16:17; 1Corinthans 1:10; 1Peter 3:8
*Real disciples of Christ can't be divided by tribal, racial or national factors {John 17:22} so no matter where a disciples comes from he automatically becomes a member of the family of faith once he gets baptized. Matthew 12:46-50
*Real disciples of Christ believe only in God's kingdom and that is what they preach and teach always {Matthew 3:2; 4:17; 10:7} so they are no part of a world that's divided due to politics! John 17:14-16
*Real disciples of Christ love their neighbors {Mark 12:31} love and pray for their enemies {Luke 6:27-28} and have loyal love for their fellow believers! John 13:34-35
*Real disciples of Christ don't participate in wars because Jesus commanded them not to use weapons to settle issues. Matthew 26:52
*Real disciples of Christ are easily recognized by their faith not sight {2Corinthians 5:7} so you can't know us through a mode of dressing rather it's when you interact with us that you can know what we believe. Act 4:13

All these fits only one group:
JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES!

Oya use the scriptures to prove how you can distinguish between true and false Christians.

ItShallPass:
Faith is a must for a living person because, in the absence of faith, there'll be doubt. There's no way a living person has neither faith nor doubt. The absence of one is the present of the other.

Think!

Why is Thomas called doubting Thomas? Because he had no faith. In fact , Jesus told him in John 20:27:

"And be not faithless, but believing."

Faithlessness means doubtfulness. And that doubt is a miracle blocker. It displeases God.

Hebrews 11:6
"And without faith it is impossible to please God,"

Oga you need education to be able to think logically.
Look at the screenshot below again and understand that the absence of doubt is not equal to having faith.
Again your logic is flawed.

BennyDGreat:
You are confusing things..

A dead person is dead. They cannot exercise anything either faith or doubt.

It's the person praying for them that can exercise faith or doubt.

It's simple

You are the one that is confused. If RECEIVER of Miracle MUST have FAITH to receive MIRACLE, then dead people cannot receive miracle because they simply cannot have faith.

Kindly read up the information below and educate yourself.

Truthseeker10:
Oga you need education to be able to think logically.
Look at the screenshot below again and understand that the absence of doubt is not equal to having faith.
Again your logic is flawed.

Is that screenshot your Bible?

If you don't have faith in me to do something for you, what do you have in me Mr logic?

MaxInDHouse:
Real Christians are Jehovah's Witnesses while fake are Christendom.

Evidence!
*Real Christians are disciples of Christ that always set times apart to preach and teach in their neighborhood just as Jesus commanded all of them {Matthew 28:18-20} they move as a group but in pairs they approach their audience {Luke 10:1} this is in line with what the scriptures says that two are better than one person. Ecclesiastes 4:9
*Real disciples of Christ believe the same teachings and judge matters the same way using the scriptures. Romans 16:17; 1Corinthans 1:10; 1Peter 3:8
*Real disciples of Christ can't be divided by tribal, racial or national factors {John 17:22} so no matter where a disciples comes from he automatically becomes a member of the family of faith once he gets baptized. Matthew 12:46-50
*Real disciples of Christ believe only in God's kingdom and that is what they preach and teach always {Matthew 3:2; 4:17; 10:7} so they are no part of a world that's divided due to politics! John 17:14-16
*Real disciples of Christ love their neighbors {Mark 12:31} love and pray for their enemies {Luke 6:27-28} and have loyal love for their fellow believers! John 13:34-35
*Real disciples of Christ don't participate in wars because Jesus commanded them not to use weapons to settle issues. Matthew 26:52
*Real disciples of Christ are easily recognized by their faith not sight {2Corinthians 5:7} so you can't know us through a mode of dressing rather it's when you interact with us that you can know what we believe. Act 4:13

All these fits only one group:
JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES!

Oya use the scriptures to prove how you can distinguish between true and false Christians.

Real Christians do all the above and even more. They walk holy and love righteous while walking in the power of God.

Jehovah Witnesses are fake witnesses with no power or Truth of God's word. They claim Jehovah God but despise His Words.

ItShallPass:
Is that screenshot your Bible?

If you don't have faith in me to do something for you, what do you have in me Mr logic?

Oga it seems that you are not educated enough to understand your position. Your position is that a person must have faith to receive a miracle. But you also claimed that a dead person does not have faith and doubt according to your screenshot below.

So if a dead person does not have faith in you, does your brain also not tell you that a dead person cannot have doubt in you?

Does your brain not also tell you that the absence of doubt in a dead person does not mean that the dead person has the faith needed for a miracle?

ItShallPass:
Real Christians do all the above and even more. They walk holy and love righteous while walking in the power of God.

Let's see which church fits into this your description perhaps your own church.

Oya mention the name let's hear.

Remember this is not about personal attitude of some people because most of you always misconstrue personality with faith.

A Buddhist, Hindu, Judaist, Muslim, Traditionalist, Atheist or Agnostic may be nice that doesn't make him a Christian.
A Christian is someone who follows Jesus' disciples in practicing what Jesus commanded. Note the nice Jewish man who walks up to Jesus ready to do what the laws says but felt bad joining Jesus' seemingly jobless followers who keeps going about preaching and teaching as Jesus commanded them.
So it's not about attitude if so most people don't need Jesus they can just be nice as you assume but it has a lot to do with participating in the assignment Jesus handed over to his disciples.
That is what makes JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES unique.

Now mention the name of your own church and please don't go about the anonymous character that anyone can just apply in any kind of religion!🙂

MaxInDHouse:
Let's see which church fits into this your description perhaps your own church.

Oya mention the name let's hear.

Remember this is not about personal attitude of some people because most of you always misconstrue personality with faith.

A Buddhist, Hindu, Judaist, Muslim, Traditionalist, Atheist or Agnostic may be nice that doesn't make him a Christian.
A Christian is someone who follows Jesus' disciples in practicing what Jesus commanded. Note the nice Jewish man who walks up to Jesus ready to do what the laws says but felt bad joining Jesus' seemingly jobless followers who keeps going about preaching and teaching as Jesus commanded them.
So it's not about attitude if so most people don't need Jesus they can just be nice as you assume but it has a lot to do with participating in the assignment Jesus handed over to his disciples.
That is what makes JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES unique.

Now mention the name of your own church and please don't go about the anonymous character that anyone can just apply in any kind of religion!🙂

Christianity is an individual thing. A church is just a Congregation of individuals who claim to serve the same God. But God knows those who are His.

I attend Harvesters Church.

Truthseeker10:
Oga it seems that you are not educated enough to understand your position. Your position is that a person must have faith to receive a miracle. But you also claimed that a dead person does not have faith and doubt according to your screenshot below.

So if a dead person does not have faith in you, does your brain also not tell you that a dead person cannot have doubt in you?

Does your brain not also tell you that the absence of doubt in a dead person does not mean that the dead person has the faith needed for a miracle?

Is a dead person in the same condition as a living person?

Are you a dead person to be arguing for the dead? When I said a person must have faith, did I say a dead person just have faith? Can a dead person have doubts! No. As long as doubt is out of the way, God can work.

If faith is unimportant according to your demonic doctrines, why is the Bible always saying to us "Have faith in God". And that statement is the very core is the whole Bible. Yet, demons would have us shut our ears to the doctrine of faith. You worship a fake Jehovah evidently. The true Jehovah sees faith as a MUST for all who come to Him: "

Hebrews 11:6

"And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that He exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him."

I wonder why you make the Bible words my words. You'll see something written in Scriptures, and then tell me "you said". Didn't you see it in the Bible?

ItShallPass:
Is a dead person in the same condition as a living person?

Are you a dead person to be arguing for the dead? When I said a person must have faith, did I say a dead person just have faith? Can a dead person have doubts! No. As long as doubt is out of the way, God can work.

If faith is unimportant according to your demonic doctrines, why is the Bible always saying to us "Have faith in God". And that statement is the very core is the whole Bible. Yet, demons would have us shut our ears to the doctrine of faith. You worship a fake Jehovah evidently. The true Jehovah sees faith as a MUST for all who come to Him: "

Hebrews 11:6

"And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that He exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him."

I wonder why you make the Bible words my words. You'll see something written in Scriptures, and then tell me "you said". Didn't you see it in the Bible?

You are arguing against yourself. Below is your statement:
"As long as doubt is out of the way, God can work. "

In the case of a dead person, Is faith not also out of the way? Does that not show that faith is not necessary for God to work?

Truthseeker10:
You are arguing against yourself. Below is your statement:
"As long as doubt is out of the way, God can work. "

In the case of a dead person, Is faith not also out of the way? Does that not show that faith is not necessary for God to work?

In the case of a dead person, both faith and doubt are out of the way. God can still work.

ItShallPass:
In the case of a dead person, both faith and doubt are out of the way. God can still work.

🤣🤣🤣So why have you been arguing against yourself since lack of faith cannot stop the miracle of God from raising a dead person? Does that not tell you that God can work miracle in a person without faith?

ItShallPass:
Christianity is an individual thing. A church is just a Congregation of individuals who claim to serve the same God. But God knows those who are His.

This is a lie!
Christianity has everything to do with the congregation that is why Jesus often go to the temple teaching us that there must be an assembly of those doing God's will. Meanwhile God's will is the assignment Jesus gave all his disciples which we must engage in with the rest of our brothers. Matthew 28:19-20

ItShallPass:
I attend Harvesters Church.

Bolaji Idowu left Deeperlife to start his own business and there is no way members of Deeperlife will accept you as their fellow worshipers even though both churches are in Gbagada.

So stop deceiving yourself if Kumuyi will not approve anyone going to Bolaji Idowu who has changed everything Kumuyi teaches then you and Deeperlifers aren't worshiping the same god! 1Corinthans 1:10

MaxInDHouse:
This is a lie!
Christianity has everything to do with the congregation that is why Jesus often go to the temple teaching us that there must be an assembly of those doing God's will. Meanwhile God's will is the assignment Jesus gave all his disciples which we must engage in with the rest of our brothers. Matthew 28:19-20


Bolaji Idowu left Deeperlife to start his own business and there is no way members of Deeperlife will accept you as their fellow worshipers even though both churches are in Gbagada.

So stop deceiving yourself if Kumuyi will not approve anyone going to Bolaji Idowu who has changed everything Kumuyi teaches then you and Deeperlifers aren't worshiping the same god! 1Corinthans 1:10

Jesus does not know congregations or denominations. He only knows individuals. Both Kumuyi and his members would start alone individually before God. They won't start before him as Deeper life members. The Rewarder knows His faithful servant. And for emphasis, servant, and not servants. Welcome faithful servant. Not "welcome faithful servants". Every individual servant do himself.

MaxInDHouse:
Obviously you are not getting the gist.

What we are saying here is that in terms of real miracles nothing stops God from doing His work but these people are saying Jesus needs the faith of people to heal them because that is the lies their fake prophets do tell them when they are faced with real sick people.

We know that the only thing any person who is sick needs is to see Jesus and ask for help miracles is certain but this people are lying for their pastors who can't perform real miracles while hiding behind stage managed shows using actors!🥱

I respect your position and you do have some points as regard fake prophets.

Let's see if I can get you to the middle. Let's strike a balance.

1. That some do stage managed miracles doesn't mean there aren't genuinely anointed
2. If they ask Jesus for help, that's faith in Jesus' ability to heal.
3. There are genuine men of God that operate God's power under the gifts of healings and/ or working of miracles.
4. If you don't have faith in Jesus' ability, it can hinder your receiving
5. Jesus isn't here on earth with us in the flesh anymore but he can use His anointed ministers to perform miracles.
6. The manifestation of the spirit is not something you switch on or off at your own will. It's as the spirit wills. However, you can position yourself in a way that the spirit of God will move.

Which of these areas do you agree or disagree with?

MaxInDHouse:
This is a lie!
Christianity has everything to do with the congregation that is why Jesus often go to the temple teaching us that there must be an assembly of those doing God's will. Meanwhile God's will is the assignment Jesus gave all his disciples which we must engage in with the rest of our brothers. Matthew 28:19-20


Bolaji Idowu left Deeperlife to start his own business and there is no way members of Deeperlife will accept you as their fellow worshipers even though both churches are in Gbagada.

So stop deceiving yourself if Kumuyi will not approve anyone going to Bolaji Idowu who has changed everything Kumuyi teaches then you and Deeperlifers aren't worshiping the same god! 1Corinthans 1:10

Please stop calling the church or Christ a business. It's not honourable.

Truthseeker10:
You are the one that is confused. If RECEIVER of Miracle MUST have FAITH to receive MIRACLE, then dead people cannot receive miracle because they simply cannot have faith.

Kindly read up the information below and educate yourself.

I saw your post and what you said here is same as what I said. No difference.

That's why I said it's the person praying for the dead that can exercise faith or doubt.

Which part of my statement is inaccurate?
Please point it out to me

BennyDGreat:
I saw your post and what you said here is same as what I said. No difference.

That's why I said it's the person praying for the dead that can exercise faith or doubt.

Which part of my statement is inaccurate?
Please point it out to me

If you really followed the discussion, you would not claim that I was confusing things. I literally used an example of Jesus raising the dead. That should tell you that the faith of the Receipient was actually the one in contention. Their own argument Is that a person cannot receive miracle if he or she does not have faith.

Truthseeker10:
🤣🤣🤣So why have you been arguing against yourself since lack of faith cannot stop the miracle of God from raising a dead person? Does that not tell you that God can work miracle in a person without faith?

You know you died go to school. Since your fake assembly discourages good education. Just keep rolling like a broken fan, I'll continue to bring you back to the fulcrum.

A living person who has no faith will ALWAYS HAVE DOUBT. And that doubt is the negative energy that blocks miracles. Faith is important for a living person because of he lacks faith, he can't lack doubt. For a living person, the absence of faith is automatically the present of doubt. And that's where the problem is.

A dead person has no faith and also has no doubt. He is in the same category as that demon possessed man of Gaddara. That man wasn't in his right mind, and had no ability to ha faith or doubt. Jesus could move on his behalf.

Oftentimes Jesus we hear Jesus say "Do you believe in the only begotten Son of God? Have faith in God. Only Believe. Why did you doubt? Why are yet fearful? Oh ye of little faith! If you believe, you will see the Glory of God. Do not doubt, but believing. Everything is possible to those who believe.

Should I go on?

Even the Angel said to Mary:

Blessed is she that believes for she shall have the thing's that are spoken to her of God.

The Angel says in Luke 1:45: “And blessed is she that believed: [/b]for there shall be a performance[/b] of those things which were told her from the Lord.

Have considered the opposite of this statement?

"Cursed is she that believes not, for there shall not be a performance..."


Why is so much emphasis laid on faith in the Scriptures? That's because by it, and only by it can men do exploits for the Lord. Heaven reigns where faith dwells.

Go read Hebrews 11, and stop feeding on the doctrines of demons.

Truthseeker10:
If you really followed the discussion, you would not claim that I was confusing things. I literally used an example of Jesus raising the dead. That should tell you that the faith of the Receipient was actually the one in contention. Their own argument Is that a person cannot receive miracle if he or she does not have faith.

How's their argument wrong?
Please educate me.

ItShallPass:
You know you died go to school. Since your fake assembly discourages good education. Just keep rolling like a broken fan, I'll continue to bring you back to the fulcrum.

A living person who has no faith will ALWAYS HAVE DOUBT. And that doubt is the negative energy that blocks miracles. Faith is important for a living person because of he lacks faith, he can't lack doubt. For a living person, the absence of faith is automatically the present of doubt. And that's where the problem is.

A dead person has no faith and also has no doubt. He is in the same category as that demon possessed man of Gaddara. That man wasn't in his right mind, and had no ability to ha faith or doubt. Jesus could move on his behalf.

Oftentimes Jesus we hear Jesus say "Do you believe in the only begotten Son of God? Have faith in God. Only Believe. Why did you doubt? Why are yet fearful? Oh ye of little faith! If you believe, you will see the Glory of God. Do not doubt, but believing. Everything is possible to those who believe.

Should I go on?

Even the Angel said to Mary:

Blessed is she that believes for she shall have the thing's that are spoken to her of God.

The Angel says in Luke 1:45: “And blessed is she that believed: [/b]for there shall be a performance[/b] of those things which were told her from the Lord.

Have considered the opposite of this statement?

"Cursed is she that believes not, for there shall not be a performance..."


Why is so much emphasis laid on faith in the Scriptures? That's because by it, and only by it can men do exploits for the Lord. Heaven reigns where faith dwells.

Go read Hebrews 11, and stop feeding on the doctrines of demons.

Ok....lets see who lacks education here.
Below is your statement: For a living person, the absence of faith is automatically the present of doubt.

Look at the evidence below that shows that you lack education.