₦airaland Forum

Imagine an Arab or Yoruba muslim arguing with an Israeli that David and Solomon who built the Temple in Jerusalem were both Muslims 😂 😂 😂 😂. That tells you the state of mind of those who accept such distortion of well accepted fact of history.

BlackViper:
The koran claims that the Islamic jesus is the same person as the Gospel Jesus. The sane koran also says that the Bible stands in judgment over the koran. So we Christians have to judge the koran according to the Bible.

So if the Jesus of the koran does not align with the Jesus of the Bible, he is a fabrication.

Are you a Muslim? The Qur'an is for Muslims and we believe all the claims in it but you don't. Whenever you see any claim in the Qur'an that doesn't align with your belief, just shake your head and waka pass. The shouldn't be your headache.

Do you want us to ignore the Qur'an that was well documented and preserved during the time of prophet Muhammad and follow the Bible which was written hundred years after the death of your God, Jesus?

Do you want us to choose the Bible which has been deprived of its original language, translated and edited several times over our own Qur'an?

Do you want us to believe a book full of random letters from one uncle Paul?

The Qur'an was never meant for you. So leave it for Muslims. It's their headache not yours

BlackViper:
Hey, Rashduct4luv. There is a huge blunder in this hadith which reveals the ignorance of the "prophet" who revealed it.

You muslims believe that every word which comes out of your "prophet's" is wahi or divinely inspired. So why would the islamic god commit a huge blunder like he does in the hadith you posted? Isn't he supposed to be all knowing?

You haven't pointed out the blunder in it, Mr. Blunder finder.

RightChanneI:
Your own Muslim believed Jesus died and resurrected, good for this acknowledgement!

Back to your Eesa, quran made us to understand that your Eesa created bird and give it life, if a whole Eesa could did this and recognized as a creator, he deserves to be worshipped!

Go back to school. Your comprehension skill is faulty.

RightChanneI:
Are you expecting Jesus to worship himself?

Is like saying why is Jesus not a Christian, all you needed here is little cence!

If he was God then he must worship himself.

You can see Yahweh praising himself several times in the old testament. Isaiah 42:8 -"I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not yield my glory to another or my praise to idols.

But Jesus came on earth and woshipped Yahweh calling Him God but forgot he himself is another God.

I rather kpeme than no joining
The blord sooking religion called
Islam

BlackViper:
According to the koran, Jesus is the word of Allah in Surah An-Nisa (4:171) and Surah Ali 'Imran (3:45) and according to the same koran, Allah's word is divine and eternal.

So if Jesus is the Word of Allah in the koran, then Jesus is also Allah. In fact according to the koran, Jesus is the only other person who can create life apart from allah. You can see this in Surah Ali 'Imran (3:49) and Surah Al-Ma'idah (5:110).

That's why the koran calls allah "the best of creators"

"Creators" is used in the plural tense and not singular tense in the koran because the koran acknowledges that there is more than one creator in Islam and the two creators in Islam are allah and Jesus.

According to Allah in the same Qur'an, "Verily, the likeness of 'Iesa (Jesus) before Allah is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: "Be!" - and he was. Qur'an 3:59

This means that the spirit is the same as what Allah created Adam with. And the same spirit is in us all too.

Is Adam Allah too?

AntiChristian:
According to Allah in the same Qur'an, "Verily, the likeness of 'Iesa (Jesus) before Allah is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: "Be!" - and he was. Qur'an 3:59

This means that the spirit is the same as what Allah created Adam with. And the same spirit is in us all too.

Is Adam Allah too?

Is Adam the spirit of allah, the word of allah, is Adam the Messiah?

AntiChristian:
If he was God then he must worship himself.

Same way allah worshipped himself right?

No wonder allah and his angels prayed for muhammad but till now no one ask who is allah and his angels sending their prayers to!

AntiChristian:
You can see Yahweh praising himself several times in the old testament. Isaiah 42:8 -"I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not yield my glory to another or my praise to idols.

That is not the definition of praise in regards to the bone of contention. Jesus can't worship himself because he is God. Is there anywhere in quran where allah worshipped himself? You can praise yourself, even many quran verses stated allah praising himself but does that mean he should be worshipping himself?

AntiChristian:
But Jesus came on earth and woshipped Yahweh calling Him God but forgot he himself is another God.

Yahweh is his father, he called his father God, he said him and his father are one, why? because he is the word of the father same way your Eesa is the word of allah. Jesus can worship his father, Yahweh but never worshipped himself!

ola20ng:
Go back to school. Your comprehension skill is faulty.

When truth is been unleashed, that is the end result. If your Eesa could created a bird and give it life, he deserves to be worshipped!

What does your Islamic prophet created? Nothing..

The koran also told you and your "prophet" to come to Jews and Christians if he was confused and seeking for guidance?


Surah 10:94

"So if you are in doubt, O Muhammad, about that which We have revealed to you, then ask those Christians and Jews who have been reading the Scripture before you”

ola20ng:
Are you a Muslim? The Qur'an is for Muslims and we believe all the claims in it but you don't. Whenever you see any claim in the Qur'an that doesn't align with your belief, just shake your head and waka pass. The shouldn't be your headache.

Do you want us to ignore the Qur'an that was well documented and preserved during the time of prophet Muhammad and follow the Bible which was written hundred years after the death of your God, Jesus?

Do you want us to choose the Bible which has been deprived of its original language, translated and edited several times over our own Qur'an?

Do you want us to believe a book full of random letters from one uncle Paul?

The Qur'an was never meant for you. So leave it for Muslims. It's their headache not yours

RightChanneI:
When truth is been unleashed, that is the end result. If your Eesa could created a bird and give it life, he deserves to be worshipped!

What does your Islamic prophet created? Nothing..

Our own prophet wasn't given the power to create anything. He is our prophet, not our God. Our Easa in the Qur'an was given the power to create and perform some miracles with the permission of his God (our Allah). Easa never told his followers to worship but directed them Allah who created him and his mother.
Qur'an 5 vs 72 says
They have certainly disbelieved who say, ‘Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary,’ while the Messiah said, ‘O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord

Your own Bible also says:
“You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.”
— Matthew 4:10

Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.”
— Mark 12:29

“And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.”
— Mark 12:30

BlackViper:
The koran also told you and your "prophet" to come to Jews and Christians if he was confused and seeking for guidance?


Surah 10:94

"So if you are in doubt, O Muhammad, about that which We have revealed to you, then ask those Christians and Jews who have been reading the Scripture before you”

For your mind, you think Allah is referring to the Christians like you with a fabricated and edited Bible?
Allah describe those Christians here:

Surah Al-Mā’idah, Verses 82–83
5:82
“You will surely find the most hostile of the people to those who believe to be the Jews and those who associate others with Allah; and you will surely find the nearest of them in affection to the believers to be those who say, ‘We are Christians.’ That is because among them are priests and monks and because they are not arrogant.”
5:83
“And when they hear what has been revealed to the Messenger, you see their eyes overflowing with tears because of what they have recognized of the truth. They say, ‘Our Lord, we have believed, so write us among the witnesses.’”

The likes of:
Waraqah ibn Nawfal — Christian
ʿAbdullāh ibn Salām — Jewish scholar
The Negus (al-Najāshī) — Christian ruler of Abyssinia

Then the koran has contradicted itself!

Because that same koran says that Jesus is not just the Word of Allah, He is a Spirit from Allah.

"The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah and His Word which He cast to Mary, and a Spirit from Him…”
— Qur’an 4:171

Which means Jesus was existing in eternity with Allah before He entered into Creation as the Messiah!

Are Spirits also created from dust?

The book of contradictions has damaged itself again for the 2000th time!

AntiChristian:
According to Allah in the same Qur'an, "Verily, the likeness of 'Iesa (Jesus) before Allah is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: "Be!" - and he was. Qur'an 3:59

This means that the spirit is the same as what Allah created Adam with. And the same spirit is in us all too.

Is Adam Allah too?

Question: What Scripture were those Christians like Waraqa and those Jews like Salam reading? Is it not the Old and New testaments that they were reading?

Do you know that Paul is called a messenger of Allah in Islam and Muhammad even copied from Paul's Epistles?

ola20ng:
For your mind, you think Allah is referring to the Christians like you with a fabricated and edited Bible?
Allah describe those Christians here:

Surah Al-Mā’idah, Verses 82–83
5:82
“You will surely find the most hostile of the people to those who believe to be the Jews and those who associate others with Allah; and you will surely find the nearest of them in affection to the believers to be those who say, ‘We are Christians.’ That is because among them are priests and monks and because they are not arrogant.”
5:83
“And when they hear what has been revealed to the Messenger, you see their eyes overflowing with tears because of what they have recognized of the truth. They say, ‘Our Lord, we have believed, so write us among the witnesses.’”

The likes of:
Waraqah ibn Nawfal — Christian
ʿAbdullāh ibn Salām — Jewish scholar
The Negus (al-Najāshī) — Christian ruler of Abyssinia

BlackViper:
Question: What Scripture were those Christians like Waraqa and those Jews like Salam reading? Is it not the Old and New testaments that they were reading?

Do you know that Paul is called a messenger of Allah in Islam and Muhammad even copied from Paul's Epistles?

During the Prophet's Muhammad lifetime, there was no single physical book called “the Bible” that all Jews and Christians possessed in an identical form.
There were different manuscript traditions, languages, textual collections and canonical traditions.

The present day Bible is a later edited and compiled version after some addition and subtraction here and there.

ola20ng:
Our own prophet wasn't given the power to create anything. He is our prophet, not our God. Our Easa in the Qur'an was given the power to create and perform some miracles with the permission of his God (our Allah). Easa never told his followers to worship but directed them Allah who created him and his mother.
Qur'an 5 vs 72 says
They have certainly disbelieved who say, ‘Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary,’ while the Messiah said, ‘O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord

Your own Bible also says:
“You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.”
— Matthew 4:10

Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.”
— Mark 12:29

“And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.”
— Mark 12:30

Your own Muslim is different, you said the truth and I love that.

You said your prophet was not given power to create anything even if it is pencil and do miracle, but some of your folks do lied that your prophet performed miracles they can't show or bring out from quran.

If your Eesa was given power to create and give life, can't you see he should be worshipped because your Eesa that create and gave life is in the same category with your allah?

So why are the Torah and Gospel mentioned in the koran if those books didn't exist in the time of your "prophet"? Why is the koran referring to the Torah and Gospel?

ola20ng:
During the Prophet's Muhammad lifetime, there was no single physical book called “the Bible” that all Jews and Christians possessed in an identical form.
There were different manuscript traditions, languages, textual collections and canonical traditions.

The present day Bible is a later edited and compiled version after some addition and subtraction here and there.

BlackViper:
So why are the Torah and Gospel mentioned in the koran if those books didn't exist in the time of your "prophet"? Why is the koran referring to the Torah and Gospel?

.
They existed as fragmented scriptures in scattered manuscripts and in the memories of some early Jews and christians not as physical books.

So was the Quran during the lifetime of prophet Muhammad until the time of the first Caliph Abu Bakr who ordered the compilation of the Qur'an from the memorisers and the written documents.

They existed as complete canons of Scripture centuries before your so called "prophet" was even born.

The Dead Sea Scrolls (roughly 3rd century BC–1st century AD) contain manuscripts of essentially every book of the Hebrew Bible except Esther, demonstrating that these books were already circulating together within Jewish community for over a thousand years before your "prophet" was born in the 6th century AD

ola20ng:
.
They existed as fragmented scriptures in scattered manuscripts and in the memories of some early Jews and christians not as physical books.

So was the Quran during the lifetime of prophet Muhammad until the time of the first Caliph Abu Bakr who ordered the compilation of the Qur'an from the memorisers and the written documents.

BlackViper:
They existed as complete canons of Scripture centuries before your so called "prophet" was even born.

The Dead Sea Scrolls (roughly 3rd century BC–1st century AD) contain manuscripts of essentially every book of the Hebrew Bible except Esther, demonstrating that these books were already circulating together within Jewish community for over a thousand years before your "prophet" was born in the 6th century AD

When was The Dead Sea Scrolls discovered? Was it available for every Jew? Was it one physical book or a collection of manuscripts?
And where was the New testament during that time?

It's not about when the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered, it's about how old they are and the fact that they were all gathered into one collection.

The Old Testament collection is called the Tanakh and it is thousands of years old.

The New Testament canon obviously could not exist at the time of the Tanakh because Christ had not began His earthly ministry when the events in the Tanakh were occurring.

The New Testament Gospel Canon was completed within 60 years of the resurrection of Christ in the 1st century AD which is still several centuries before your "prophet" was born.

Meanwhile, compare that to your koran.

Muhammad did not even leave any instructions for the various verses of the koran to be gathered into one book. So Muslims had to commit Bid'ah (innovation) before the koran could become a book.

Narrated Zaid bin Thabit: ...

"Therefore I (Umar) suggest, you (Abu Bakr) order that the Qur'an be collected." I said to 'Umar: "How can you do something which Allah's Apostle did not do?"

(Sahih al-Bukhari: vol. 6, Book. 61, No. 509)

So the koran is haram because neither allah nor muhammad gave instructions for it to be collected as a book.

ola20ng:
When was The Dead Sea Scrolls discovered? Was it available for every Jew? Was it one physical book or a collection of manuscripts?
And where was the New testament during that time?

BlackViper:
It's not about when the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered, it's about how old they are and the fact that they were all gathered into one collection.

The Old Testament collection is called the Tanakh and it is thousands of years old.

The New Testament canon obviously could not exist at the time of the Tanakh because Christ had not began His earthly ministry when the events in the Tanakh were occurring.

The New Testament Gospel Canon was completed within 60 years of the resurrection of Christ in the 1st century AD which is still several centuries before your "prophet" was born.

Meanwhile, compare that to your koran.

Muhammad did not even leave any instructions for the various verses of the koran to be gathered into one book. So Muslims had to commit Bid'ah (innovation) before the koran could become a book.

Narrated Zaid bin Thabit: ...

"Therefore I (Umar) suggest, you (Abu Bakr) order that the Qur'an be collected." I said to 'Umar: "How can you do something which Allah's Apostle did not do?"

(Sahih al-Bukhari: vol. 6, Book. 61, No. 509)

So the koran is haram because neither allah nor muhammad gave instructions for it to be collected as a book.

You don't need all these epistles or do you want to compete with uncle Paul who bullied the original disciples of your prophet and changed most of his beliefs and teachings.
Whether the compilation of the Qur'an is an innovation or not should not be your headache. It's the headache of Muslims. Let them deal with it.
Your headache should be how to get the Bible in the original language of your prophet for originallity and authentication; how to retrieve the missing parts of your book; how to remove the random letters from Paul which you are parading as words of your prophet, how to harmonise many contradictions in your book;; how......... ......

You need to do more research on the different versions/editions of your book to uncover which one is the original. You will discover that you have a lot of work to do to give credibility to your religion and book instead of delving into Muslims' affairs that do not concern you.

If uncle Paul changed most of the original beliefs and teachings, why was your "prophet" plagiarising from the writings of Paul?

Specifically, your "prophet" copied
PAUL the Apostle of Christ in 1 Corinthians 2:9

However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him."

(1 Corinthians 2:9)

Your "prophet" several centuries later:

Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "ALLAH SAID, 'I have prepared for My righteous slaves (such excellent things) as no eye has ever seen, nor an ear has ever heard nor a human heart can ever think of." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 93, Number 589)

Why is your "prophet" putting the words of Paul into allah's mouth?

ola20ng:
You don't need all these epistles or do you want to compete with uncle Paul who bullied the original disciples of your prophet and changed most of his beliefs and teachings.
Whether the compilation of the Qur'an is an innovation or not should not be your headache. It's the headache of Muslims. Let them deal with it.
Your headache should be how to get the Bible in the original language of your prophet for originallity and authentication; how to retrieve the missing parts of your book; how to remove the random letters from Paul which you are parading as words of your prophet, how to harmonise many contradictions in your book;; how......... ......

You need to do more research on the different versions/editions of your book to uncover which one is the original. You will discover that you have a lot of work to do to give credibility to your religion and book instead of delving into Muslims' affairs that do not concern you.

BlackViper:
If uncle Paul changed most of the original beliefs and teachings, why was your "prophet" plagiarising from the writings of Paul?

Specifically, your "prophet" copied
PAUL the Apostle of Christ in 1 Corinthians 2:9

However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him."

(1 Corinthians 2:9)

Your "prophet" several centuries later:

Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "ALLAH SAID, 'I have prepared for My righteous slaves (such excellent things) as no eye has ever seen, nor an ear has ever heard nor a human heart can ever think of." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 93, Number 589)

Why is your "prophet" putting the words of Paul into allah's mouth?

That shows you don't know who saul/paul was before he claimed he encountered jesus on his way to Damascus. Go and read about him first. You will discover that those words are not your paul's own. He was only echoing
Isaiah 64:4.
The same Allah that inspired prophet Isaiah with those words inspired prophet Muhammad too.

Islam is the surrender to One and Only God. He has no son, wife, daughters and nothing is like Him. He shared His kingdom with no one and we are all His creation. I personally surrender to Him and wishes to do what only please Him.

Whatever you explicitly or implicitly surrender to other than Allah will not be accepted. Regret, wailing and hell will be the final resting place.

Know that Truth will always prevail. Islam, the natural religion, will prevail over all religions although you hate it. You or your children along the line will be Muslim and nothing you can do about it.

Here is Isaiah 64:4. Now Tell us if your "prophet" was copying from Paul or from Isaiah:

Since ancient times no one has heard, no ear has perceived, no eye has seen any God besides you, who acts on behalf of those who wait for him

Isaiah is saying that since Ancient times, no one has heard or seen God outside of the Nation of Israel.

Compare that to Paul who was talking about the reward that awaits Christians from God.

Your "prophet" was very obviously copying from Paul since he is expressing the same promise that Paul expressed because he is referring to the reward for allah's slaves!

Your "prophet" couldn't have been plagiarising from Isaiah because your "prophet" didn't know who Isaiah was. He thought Isaiah was in the Torah!🤣☺️☺️

But we know that your "prophet" was familiar with Paul because early muslims respected Paul as a messenger of allah!

Would you like me to share that Islamic narrative with you?

ola20ng:
That shows you don't know who saul/paul was before he claimed he encountered jesus on his way to Damascus. Go and read about him first. You will discover that those words are not your paul's own. He was only echoing
Isaiah 64:4.
The same Allah that inspired prophet Isaiah with those words inspired prophet Muhammad too.

BlackViper:


Here is Isaiah 64:4. Now Tell us if your "prophet" was copying from Paul or from Isaiah:

Since ancient times no one has heard, no ear has perceived, no eye has seen any God besides you, who acts on behalf of those who wait for him

Isaiah is saying that since Ancient times, no one has heard or seen God outside of the Nation of Israel.

Compare that to Paul who was talking about the reward that awaits Christians from God.

Your "prophet" was very obviously copying from Paul since he is expressing the same promise that Paul expressed because he is referring to the reward for allah's slaves!

Your "prophet" couldn't have been plagiarising from Isaiah because your "prophet" didn't know who Isaiah was. He thought Isaiah was in the Torah!🤣☺️☺️

But we know that your "prophet" was familiar with Paul because early muslims respected Paul as a messenger of allah!

Would you like me to share that Islamic narrative with you?

You are so funny and desperate to make your uncle paul relevant.
Which version of the Bible did you use?
Check this one out:

Isaiah 64:4 in the King James Version (KJV) reads: "For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee, what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him".

Do you want to tell me you have not seen this one or you chose the version that fits your argument?

Even the paul's version you are referring to betrays you and exposes your level of understanding.

Now take a deep breath and focus on the bolded part of the paul's version. You will understand that paul was quoting the previous text.

"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." (1 Corinthians 2:9).

Oga, channel your energy to something that will be beneficial to your religion. Leave Islam for Muslims. You still have many things to learn about your own religion.

Just to be sure, are we talking about the same Uncle Paul that is mentioned in Qur'an 36:13–14, which speaks of a town to which two messengers were sent and then a third was added?

Is the same Uncle Paul that Ibn Kathīr was hailing as a messenger in his Tafsīr?
:
“The names of the first two Messengers were Shamʿūn (Simon) and Yūḥannā (John), and the name of the third was Būlus (Paul), and the city was Antioch.”

I had no idea Ibn Kathir is considered a liar in your religion...🤣🤣🤣

ola20ng:
You are so funny and desperate to make your uncle paul relevant.
Which version of the Bible did you use? ;
Check this one out:

Isaiah 64:4 in the King James Version (KJV) reads: "For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee, what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him".

Do you want to tell me you have not seen this one or you chose the version that fits your argument?

Even the paul's version you are referring to betrays you and exposes your level of understanding.

Now take a deep breath and focus on the bolded part of the paul's version. You will understand that paul was quoting the previous text.

"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." (1 Corinthians 2:9).

Oga, channel your energy to something that will be beneficial to your religion. Leave Islam for Muslims. You still have many things to learn about your own religion.

BlackViper:
Just to be sure, are we talking about the same Uncle Paul that is mentioned in Qur'an 36:13–14, which speaks of a town to which two messengers were sent and then a third was added?

Is the same Uncle Paul that Ibn Kathīr was hailing as a messenger in his Tafsīr?
:
“The names of the first two Messengers were Shamʿūn (Simon) and Yūḥannā (John), and the name of the third was Būlus (Paul), and the city was Antioch.”

I had no idea Ibn Kathir is considered a liar in your religion...🤣🤣🤣

You are so desperate and you will never concede defeat. Whenever your deliberate lies are exposed, you open up another issue without addressing the current issue.

Why didn't you choose KJV of Isaiah 64:4 but chose another edited version?

Why didn't you notice that uncle paul was directly quoting from the previous text?

We are not on the same level of comprehension. The holy spirit is not holying well in your interpretations of the biblical texts. You are just wasting my time.

You need more training and mentorship.
Bye.

Come back and answer the questions! Don't scurry off with your tail between your legs, lol!🤣🤣🤣

Even if I had mentioned the KJV's version of Isaiah 64:4, you are still conceding that your "prophet" plagiarised from our allegedly corrupted Scriptures!🤣🤣🤠

So answer my question:

Is it not the same Uncle Paul that allah referred to as his Messenger, at least according to Ibn Kathir? Or are you saying I can no longer trust the koran?

ola20ng:
You are so desperate and you will never concede defeat. Whenever your deliberate lies are exposed, you open up another issue without addressing the current issue.

Why didn't you choose KJV of Isaiah 64:4 but chose another edited version?

Why didn't you notice that uncle paul was directly quoting from the previous text?

We are not on the same level of comprehension. The holy spirit is not holying well in your interpretations of the biblical texts. You are just wasting my time.

You need more training and mentorship.
Bye.