₦airaland Forum

Roycemadeit:
I wonder why your God would state something so plainly in Isaiah 45:7, then leave it to you thousands of years later to explain what he “really meant.”
If an omniscient God knows how people interpret language, why communicate so straightforwardly and rely on followers to correct it?
That is the convenience of biblical interpretation: when the text says something uncomfortable, believers become God’s public relations department.
You call my reading erroneous because it conflicts with your theology. I call it reading the sentence without deciding in advance what it may mean.

MaxInDHouse:
You are not reasoning like a mature individual!

To help you will give you an illustration.
Imagine a teacher claims he is the best and there is no teacher like him only for thousands of to read his testbook and fail in the task expected by his students. Isaiah 65:13-14
But then the teacher explained that it's not everyone reading his textbook that can perform. Matthew 7:21-23

WHY?

Because the understanding of his textbook is tied to the attitude of a reader. Zephaniah 2:2-3; compare to Proverbs 2:1-5

And after so many years a group of scholars changed their attitude towards their study of the textbook and soon people started talking about this group but the funny thing most people are saying is that members of these group have turned the textbook upside down.

But in everywhere they may be found they are the best performing students.

Would you still say the teacher's textbook makes no practical sense?

I told you the meaning of God's word you are arguing yet you have concluded that the book is useless but there is a group of people making me best use of this same book and the whole world can testify to it. Matthew 5:14🥱

Roycemadeit:
But how do they know which attitude is correct? How do they know which interpretation of the book is right? How do they distinguish the wisdom in the book from the parts that require reinterpretation?

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus said "By their fruits" Matthew 7:16-18
Which means each organization of Bible students has a fruit that you will see anywhere they may be.

So the group that has the right attitude will do the things expected of God's people at the right time.
For instance this is what God's word says:


In the last days the mountain of the Lord’s temple will be established as the highest of the mountains; it will be exalted above the hills, and all nations will stream to it. Many peoples will come and say, “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the temple of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths.” The law will go out from Zion, the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. He will judge between the nations and will settle disputes for many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore. ‭Isaiah 2:2-4 NIV‬

Verse 2 says this group will go throughout the world to gather their students.

Verse 3 says they will use the information found in the book of law authored by the God of Israel to teach themselves.

Verse 4 says this teaching will help them to settle their disparities peacefully among themselves, divert their resources into production of food and information materials, stop producing, buying, selling and/or using of weapons and bow never to raise weapons against anyone again!

This is the FRUIT expected of the group that truly understood God's word and that is what Jesus came to teach his disciples as the Prince of Peace {Isaiah 9:6} and Jesus said they will be his Witnesses throughout the world {Act 1:8} this means if you can't find any organization of people who can't do without weapons know that Jesus' followers have achieved this globally among themselves and all you need to do is IDENTIFY the group. And Jesus didn't leave you in the dark he said his true disciples will have LOVE among themselves and the whole world will testify to it that this global group have love for their members! John 13:34-35

Roycemadeit:
But that doesn't follow. Peace, love, preaching, unity, and nonviolence aren't unique to one group,

Roycemadeit:
You've made two separate claims.

First, you say “evil” in Isaiah means calamity. Show that from the Torah; don't simply substitute “calamity” and declare the issue settled.

Second, you claim that “the universe is a mental creation of THE ALL.

” What evidence supports that, and what exactly is “THE ALL”?

Is this demonstrable, or merely another belief?

Redefining evil is a linguistic argument; placing the universe in a cosmic mind is philosophical.

Both require justification.

I am waiting.

sonmvayina:
1. Was it not God that flooded the earth and sent fire and brimstone on sodom and gomorah and also drowned the Egyptian army..

For number 2 read the kybalion .

Learn to read wife

MaxInDHouse:
This is where you choose to lie!🙂

There is only one group that has all these qualities you may choose to deny it but that's the truth.

*Can you mention a group that has no politician as member throughout the world? John 17:14-16

Well if you must know the reason why i asked you it's because politics is the only reason why people invent weapons so there is no way someone in politics will not use or be around those using weapons.

*Can you mention a group that a member could just get to any part of this planet and he already has a home simply because his fellow disciples will house him? Matthew 19:29

*Can you mention any group that goes from house to house and door to door speaking with people in their homes and going back to teach whoever receives them just as Jesus commanded his disciples? Matthew 28:19-20

*Can you mention a group that is united to the point of having the same beliefs so that people in all the earth knows what they believe because they are truly united in their faith? John 17:22 compare to 1Corinthans 1:10

*Can you mention a group where you won't see any force man either Army, Navy, Air Force not even a police man in their midst? Matthew 26:52

I'm sure by now you will wonder if there could ever be such a global group having all these qualities!🙂

Roycemadeit:
How does the reader know that his attitude is the correct one?

Roycemadeit:
What objective standard determines that?

Roycemadeit:
Where does the Bible establish that peace, love, preaching, doctrinal unity, and nonviolence are collectively an exclusive test for identifying one modern organization?

Roycemadeit:
[b]“My organization fits the characteristics” does not prove “God chose my organization.”

MaxInDHouse:
God said the right attitude is reading, meditating and humbly asking questions for understanding. Psalms 1:1; Proverbs 2:1-5


There will be a gathering of humble people seeking righteousness. Zephaniah 2:2-3


That is what Jesus (God's only begotten Son) taught his disciples and according to God's word whoever is not his follower can't have everything life {John 3:16} that is why they must be recognized as a group! John 13:34-35


God said: during the end time Satan will blindfold people, they will continue seeing other people as enemies so instead of loving people they will all use weapons to kill their neighbors! Revelation 6:3-4

MaxInDHouse:
God said the right attitude is reading, meditating and humbly asking questions for understanding. Psalms 1:1; Proverbs 2:1-5


There will be a gathering of humble people seeking righteousness. Zephaniah 2:2-3


That is what Jesus (God's only begotten Son) taught his disciples and according to God's word whoever is not his follower can't have everything life {John 3:16} that is why they must be recognized as a group! John 13:34-35


God said: during the end time Satan will blindfold people, they will continue seeing other people as enemies so instead of loving people they will all use weapons to kill their neighbors! Revelation 6:3-4

Roycemadeit:
You said the correct attitude is reading, meditating, and humbly asking questions. But how does the reader know his interpretation is correct rather than merely his own?

Roycemadeit:
You also have not shown where Scripture makes peace, love, preaching, doctrinal unity, and nonviolence an exclusive test for identifying one modern organization. Teaching these qualities does not mean they uniquely identify one organization.

Roycemadeit:
Your appeal to Revelation 6:3-4 and Satan “blindfolding” people is another interpretation, not proof. I asked you to establish a premise, but you quoted another verse and asserted a conclusion.

Roycemadeit:
You also said humble people will gather, but did not explain how we know they are genuinely humble or correct.

Roycemadeit:
You left my question about Isaiah 2:3 unanswered: What does “the Law” mean in its original context, and why expand Isaiah’s reference into different books that did not exist, yet?

Roycemadeit:
What guarantees that the person say, MaxInDHouse, answering those questions has correctly understood the verses rather than simply imposing his own interpretation?

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus said:

“Keep on asking, and it will be given you; keep on seeking, and you will find; keep on knocking, and it will be opened to you" Matthew 7:7

This means it's only individuals who continue with asking sincerely that can find answers that is why only his closest confidants got to understanding of his parables as they always return to him asking for the meaning. Matthew 13:36 compare to Proverbs 2:3-5


That is what Jesus taught through his actions as he continue being peaceable, loving, uniting his listeners and commanding them never to hate or fight anyone be it friend or foe.
God Himself said we should listen to Jesus! Matthew 17:5


Only those blinded by Satan keeps fighting against themselves {Revelation 6:3-4} due to racism and politics! 2Corinthians 4:4


Because they are fully obedient to those taking the lead in their gathering just as Jesus' disciples did in the first century! Hebrews 13:7, 17


God wanted to use the Israelites as the light for all other nations {Exodus 19:5} but they failed so He established another covenant through Jesus this time the laws are not like the first ones written in tablets or scrolls rather they written in the hearts of Jesus' disciples {Jeremiah 31:31-33} as they closely learn through his words, thoughts and actions that is why Jesus himself never wrote any book unlike Moses who was asked to pen down the laws!


Because i belong to the one and only group that's fulfilling what Isaiah 2:2-4 says!🙂

Roycemadeit:
You say your group is the one fulfilling what the Bible says. But isn't that precisely what virtually every religious group believes about itself?

MaxInDHouse:
NO!🙂
Think more of action rather than mere words.
Jesus taught his disciples to go and meet people in their homes confident that no religion has that strong convincing message other than his disciples.
For instance if you are asked to travel from one country to another to market a product that's not the best surely you won't have the liver to do so but when you are certain of what you have ọmọ you won't even think twice before moving with your product.
Of all the religions in the world today which one do you know that's actively going to meet people in their homes?
It's easy to stand in the corners of the street and start shouting at passersby or on radio or TV saying whatever you like but standing one on one facing your audience requires a lot because you must have what no one else have before you can do that.
So when Jesus commissioned Christianity he made it mandatory that his disciples are not to go disturbing people with noise because then you'll have to speak into the air with no one asking you any question but when you knock on people's door surely you must be fully prepared for questions.
Today you have politicians claiming Christians because their religion doesn't make it a compulsion to go and knock on people's doors so they will stay on social media or worship center, say whatever comes to their mouth and off they go.
But can they truly be Christians if they must speak with people from house to house?

Ọmọ if someone else is deceiving you please don't deceive yourself, the one and only true religion doesn't give a room for hypocritical form of worship!🙂

Roycemadeit:
Other religious groups can demonstrate the same commitment to their own beliefs.

MaxInDHouse:
Never!
I am telling you today that there is none and there will never be no other like my group regarding all what i told you.
Do you think i was born into the true religion?

Ọmọ i searched thoroughly and diligently perhaps i can find another but there is none because the standard is too high for whoever isn't ready for pureness! Psalms 24:3-4🙂

Roycemadeit:
Every religious group can claim the same thing. A Muslim, Catholic, Protestant, or another sect can search sincerely and reach a different conclusion. Your conviction proves that you believe you found the truth, not that you actually did.

Roycemadeit:
[b]God's standard is too high, but it is the believers who become certain of their own righteousness deem their judgment of themselves for God's judgment of them.

MaxInDHouse:
Of course that's the ultimate truth!🙂
In the world today what mankind need for all of us to live happily on the planet is food, clothing and shelter these three costs almost nothing if we are united but due to politics caused by Satan 99% of the world's population spends the resources on destructive devices storing it for God knows what. So if a religion could stand out to erase the making, buying, selling and usage of weapons in the minds of all their members globally replacing it with love for neighbors ọmọ that's the one and only true religion! James 1:27

Being high doesn't translate to unattainable that's what you failed to understand it simply means to climb up to the peak requires special training which you must humbly welcome not just arguing hopelessly claiming there is nothing as such.
So when humans from different nations come to a realization that there is a problem and figured it out but you keep on arguing aimlessly just to prove stubborn it can't change the truth that you and i know.
Our problem is the diversion of resources into the making of destructive devices and thinking of how to disarm other people just to feel on the top but an organization has eradicated that in the minds of all their members throughout the world.

If you feel that's just a coincidence ọmọ i will tell you that you're simply deceiving yourself!🥱

MaxInDHouse:
Of course that's the ultimate truth!🙂
In the world today what mankind need for all of us to live happily on the planet is food, clothing and shelter these three costs almost nothing if we are united but due to politics caused by Satan 99% of the world's population spends the resources on destructive devices storing it for God knows what. So if a religion could stand out to erase the making, buying, selling and usage of weapons in the minds of all their members globally replacing it with love for neighbors ọmọ that's the one and only true religion! James 1:27




Being high doesn't translate to unattainable that's what you failed to understand it simply means to climb up to the peak requires special training which you must humbly welcome not just arguing hopelessly claiming there is nothing as such.
So when humans from different nations come to a realization that there is a problem and figured it out but you keep on arguing aimlessly just to prove stubborn it can't change the truth that you and i know.
Our problem is the diversion of resources into the making of destructive devices and thinking of how to disarm other people just to feel on the top but an organization has eradicated that in the minds of all their members throughout the world.

If you feel that's just a coincidence ọmọ i will tell you that you're simply deceiving yourself!🥱

Roycemadeit:
MaxInDHouse, the circular reasoning in your argument is becoming very clear.

Your reasoning is essentially:

1. You interpret certain Bible verses as describing the identifying marks of God's true organization.

2. You find that your organization has those characteristics.

3. You then use the fact that your organization has those characteristics as proof that your interpretation of those verses was correct.

4. You then use that “correct” interpretation to prove that your organization is God's organization.

That is a circle.

The problem is that your interpretation is being used to validate your organization, while your organization is then being used to validate your interpretation.

I am asking you to break that circle.

Where does the Bible independently establish that your particular combination of peace, love, preaching, doctrinal unity and nonviolence is an exclusive test for identifying one modern organization?

You haven't established that. You have simply shown that your organization fits the interpretation you have constructed.

And when I question how you know your interpretation is correct, you point back to the same verses and your organization's “fruits.”

That isn't independent evidence. It is self-validation.

Before telling me that I am “deceiving myself,” establish the missing premise.

Don't use your conclusion to prove your premise, then use the premise to prove your conclusion.

MaxInDHouse:
One simple question:

If all humans agree not to waste our resources on the production of weapons but food and other necessities of life how do you think this world will be?

Please answer that question and see what you're arguing aimlessly against!🙂

Roycemadeit:
That isn't the question I asked.
You keep proving that nonviolence is desirable, then assuming that it proves your organization is God's organization.
Where does the Bible establish that nonviolence, preaching, unity and love are an exclusive test for identifying one modern organization?
Your argument is:
“My organization fits the qualities, therefore God chose it.”
But I am asking you to prove the missing step:
“God established these qualities as the exclusive test.”
You haven't proved that. You keep changing the question instead.
That's the deflection.

martinskelly:
God, obtainable in an holy book NEVER! I know and believe without any doubt that God lives in us only if we truly look inward.
Holy books are law written by men with inspiration from God and also their own consciousness perception.

God is not an author of confusion only men used by Devil (thoughts) are the ones confusing others because hierarchically, men will definitely wants to subdue, overpower and control the weaker minds.

My 2 cent.

MaxInDHouse:
Since you don't believe in God or the Bible let's start from that point.
So answer the question:
If all humans agree not to waste our resources on the production of weapons but on food and other necessities of life how do you think this world will be? 🙂

Roycemadeit:
Japan, Sweden, Norway and Denmark. Christianity is not what explains their social order, yet they have built highly peaceful and functional societies through human institutions, cooperation and shared civic values.

MaxInDHouse:
Now i know how low atheists can think!🥱

So when two people disagree and you hold a weapon 🔪 to scare them that translates to peace from your own point of view shey?

I asked you:

Do this societies have people who always carry weapons among them?
For what purpose are they using weapons?

Ọmọ as long as they have weapon carriers among them there is no peace for real.

WHY?

Because the criminals among them are afraid of the weapons so at the slightest chance of a disorder things will turn upside down since it's the weapons that's holding criminals back not to harm people.

That is why God's word says:

For those rulers are an object of fear, not to the good deed, but to the bad. Do you want to be free of fear of the authority? Keep doing good, and you will have praise from it; Romans 13:3

So we aren't scared of weapons rather we obey the authorities because our God said we should obey them as long as their policies doesn't conflict with God's will but the criminals in your society are scared of weapons therefore when they are able to build a stronger weapon than their rulers things will change!🙂

Roycemadeit:
If a ]people can create peaceful and cooperative societies through reasoning, laws, institutions and shared civic values, why must they invoke God or a particular religious organization to explain those achievements?

Roycemadeit:
If a people can create peaceful and cooperative societies through reasoning, laws, institutions and shared civic values, why must they invoke God or a particular religious organization to explain those achievements?

MaxInDHouse:
The highlighted in red is what i'm correcting!

Instead say people created a seemingly peaceful and cooperative societies through the use of WEAPONS!🙂

As long as they carry weapons to threaten themselves in order to abide by the rules then the so called "peace" is still as a result of INTIMIDATION.

It simply means even though you are not contented with the rules you must be compelled through the use of WEAPONS.

Do you understand what i'm saying now?🙂

lawani:
They achieved their peace and prosperity by understanding.

lawani:
In a place kike China the police don't carry weapons and your Bible teachings and beliefs can't take over the world even at gunpoint. Some people would rather die than believe nonsense. Your Christianity and it's twin Island tried gunpoint persuasion severally it just didn't work.