₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
It does my friend as long as such reports aren't coming from other countries except Western nations it simply means that isn't the identity of the organization!


Exactly what i said if one family can't vouch for millions of people surely reports from one part of the earth is not enough to evaluate a global family of peace loving worshipers.


The point is if we are molesting our children as you think how can a family in the same group of child molesters be awarded a national glory?
So if such reports aren't coming from other countries except the West you should think twice!🙂

Dtruthspeaker:
Haven't you seen that, that guy is speaks like one who is ma...? He's a drug add... who got knocked

martinskelly:
Hahaha ; some people ehn, if you don't take your time to analyse their contextual writings, someone might get confused along the way.

The manchi said God gave humans same message but humans try to weave their own into it, this kind of people say this kind of things just to want to abolish or hide the truth when even Jesus said "yea shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free".

Follow sound doctrine dem no gree hear.

I pity dem, make dem dey feel like say nothing dey happen till e happen e go b like film for their eyes.

Roycemadeit:
You're still confusing “this happened in some countries” with “therefore it didn't happen elsewhere.” The absence of reports you've personally encountered in Africa does not prove the absence of abuse.
How can you vouch for every single JW member worldwide and claim “all of us obey the law”? A national parenting award given to one family doesn't prove that claim, just as reports from particular countries don't prove that abuse is universal. The evidence has to be examined case by case.
And your Putin example doesn't establish what you think it does either. The Order of Parental Glory was awarded to multiple families, not exclusively Jehovah's Witnesses. The fact that one JW family raised eight children and received a parenting award simply means that that particular family was recognized for its parenting. It doesn't certify every JW family worldwide, nor does it establish that every member obeys the law. More importantly, the Bible itself doesn't provide comprehensive parenting manual that guarantees every Christian parent will raise children perfectly.

martinskelly:
See, God is not a God of confusion, He is a God of process and orderliness.

God starts from a point A to a Point B and still be at point A meaning He is here and still in is Throne because He is not bound by time Omnipresent.

Before I proceed, what do you describe yourself as? because I don't want to say which religion are you!

MaxInDHouse:
Who is/are the writer/writers?😁

MaxInDHouse:
Funny man!

MaxInDHouse:
So the fact that reports comes from one part of the world should tell you something is wrong with your judgement that the organization hasn't trained members to be law abiding.
Another thing you failed to notice is that when accusations are coming none ever reported that a JW member molested the child of a none JW.
Or are they not attracted to other children except JWs?😁

Imagine when you hear reports of Muslims killing people do you hear that it only affects Muslims?

Ọmọ something doesn't add up in those reports.
For instance in places like Africa the reports is that JWs are fetish, in Russia JWs are terrorists, in Western countries JWs are child molesters. Haba! Please don't let atheism blur your senses o!😁

sonmvayina:
And God said "Let us make MAN in our image after our likeness ....let them have dominion over the land and sees.....

And God formed man from the dust of the earth and breathed into his nostrils and man became a living soul....


I am a man.....I try to be the best of a man I can be....

sonmvayina:
The Jewish scribes for the Tanakh. And anonymous Greek theologians for the Christians scriptures...

Roycemadeit:
Whether an abuser's victim is JW or non-JW is irrelevant to the question.

MaxInDHouse:
Who is/are the writer/writers?😁

martinskelly:
How can this Sonmy of a person be talking from both sides of the mouth!
Firstly, they are characters that are not in existence, now they are writers with wise intentions to teach spiritual truth. Just be peddling false narratives. Me I can't even argue much.

sonmvayina:
The Jewish scribes for the Tanakh. And anonymous Greek theologians for the Christians scriptures...

MaxInDHouse:
Pastors have scammed him in the past that's why he so much hate anything having to do with Christianity.😁

MaxInDHouse:
You are not a JW so i as one here is telling you that those people are lying to create enemies for the organization.

WHY?

Because they have lost the best of friends who stopped talking to them after leaving the group they are determined to say anything against the organization. That is why you can't see any none JW reporting such. The JW is the happiest of all groups if there is any other happy group of people so when they find out that JWs have stopped associating with them for their immoral behaviors they decided to make unsuspecting people like you view JWs as evil people.
So they are all liars.🙂

Roycemadeit:
You are not actually addressing the evidence, Max. You are simply assuming that anyone who reports wrongdoing by a JW must be lying because they are former members, bitter, or trying to create enemies for the organization. That is circular reasoning: the organization is assumed to be good, therefore anyone presenting evidence against it must be dishonest. You haven't demonstrated that these people are lying, nor have you answered the actual question I raised. You have only explained why you believe they must be lying. Calling every critic a liar doesn't make the evidence disappear. It only shows how far you are willing to go to protect a conclusion you have already reached.

MaxInDHouse:
Please i don't mean to disrespect you but how old are you? 🙂

Let me teach you how to think CRITICALLY.

Do you think a happily married woman will come forward and tell stories about how she was raped?
How many of those claiming this are happily married as family women?

Come on these people are being spiteful. No normal woman happily married with her own children will come forward to start telling stories of how she was raped.

For instance there was a case of one woman who said a man (JW) raped her some 14 years back but after the investigation the court dismissed the case.

Why?

They discovered she's actually the one who initiated s3x with the young man when he was in his teens, her husband left her due to her promiscuity and she was using the teenager who was 17 years old back then while she was in her late 20s but when the young man decided to stop she reported him to the elders that he once raped her the story didn't add up so the elders told her this is slander because the young man was about to get married to a younger woman and she was determined to spoil his relationship with the younger woman. She later left the organization and still took the matter to court but the same thing happened.
But had it been she cooked her story well the brother will be behind bars now.
I am one of the elders and i have heard several cases of ladies who have had s3x with brothers secretly only to come forward and start telling us what happened several years back simply because the brother is now married or getting married to another person and they are left out.
So think critically not just swallow stories on the Internet!🙂

Roycemadeit:
Critical thinking means examining evidence, not deciding beforehand that every accusation must be spiteful.
A woman's marital status has absolutely no bearing on whether a rape allegation is true, and the fact that someone has children does not make her incapable of being a victim. Your personal story about one woman whose case was dismissed is an individual case, not evidence that the other allegations are fabricated.
And your statement that you have heard such cases as an elder is also anecdotal. If a particular case was dismissed, then examine that case on its own evidence. But you cannot take one disputed case and use it to declare that thousands of other allegations are lies. That's not critical thinking. That's confirmation bias.

MaxInDHouse:
That is why i asked you:

How many of such cases do you have in Africa?

As long as it's a Western thing then using it as an identity of a peaceful global organization is also confirmation bias.
I showed you what the Bible said will be the sign of pure worship you are referring to false stories from one particular side of the planet and using it to judge the world's most peaceful group simply because you don't want to see a difference as if rape and other such cases aren't reported in other religions globally.
Ọmọ you are the one who is bias here from the beginning God has given us a sign that will help all sincere and honest hearted people to know the one and only true religion and i have given you that sign so if you are now banking on what is not well grounded then you are the one who is bias!🙂

Roycemadeit:
Max, asking “how many cases do you have in Africa?” doesn't answer the question. The geographical location of documented cases does not determine whether the cases are genuine, and the fact that abuse also occurs in other religions is irrelevant to whether it occurs among JWs.

Roycemadeit:
You keep asserting that the reports are false without actually demonstrating that they are false. As for your “sign of pure worship,” you have shown verses describing peace, love and unity, but you still haven't shown where the Bible says that these qualities uniquely identify one modern organization.[/quote ]
God's word says these qualities are attributes of God's holy spirit {Galatians 5:22-23} and as imperfect humans nobody can cultivate these qualities without fault but where the spirit of God is active imperfect humans that are in such a gathering will unitedly work out these qualities like ants working together but when you look closely at just one of them you won't know any difference until you watch them work together. That is what makes JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES stand out! Isaiah 2:2-4

[quote author=Roycemadeit post=140678736]And there's the other issue you haven't addressed: Jesus himself told his disciples in Luke 22:36, “He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one,” yet you present being completely weaponless as an unmistakable biblical test.

MaxInDHouse:
I'm using what is called WISDOM instead of following mere rumor.
So far the accusations is coming from one side of the planet just as a part of the planet says JWs are terrorists, another say JWs are fetish then this one says JWs are rapists but you dodged the other two instead of critically looking into the matter as these accusations doesn't make sense. It should be that all the nations are saying the same thing either JWs are terrorists or rapists or fetish not that different reports are coming from different part of the planet regarding one single organization that has proved to be the one and only peaceful global group. That is what i call CRITICAL THINKING!🥱

Roycemadeit:
Max, you're confusing interpretation with evidence. The fact that different countries report different accusations against Jehovah's Witnesses doesn't make those reports false. And what about former Jehovah's Witnesses? Are you suggesting that every ex-JW who raises concerns simply left for no reason, or that none of them has a legitimate reason for leaving? If former members are automatically dismissed as bitter or spiteful, while current members are automatically treated as credible, you've created a system where your conclusion can never be challenged.

Roycemadeit:
As for Luke 22:36, you're again presenting your interpretation as though the text itself says it. Jesus said, “He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.” His disciples then produced two actual swords, and Jesus said, “It is enough.” Ephesians 6:17 later uses “the sword” metaphorically for God's word, but Luke 22:36 itself never says that Jesus meant Scripture. That's your interpretation.

Roycemadeit:
We go back to the foundational question: how do you distinguish what the Bible actually says from the interpretation your organization places upon it? Calling my reasoning biased doesn't answer that question.

MaxInDHouse:
Intelligence is what you need!
I was a former Muslim but instead of dwelling on the past i keep on with the future telling everyone that i've found the one and only true religion.
You are an atheist so all what matters to you is how to discredit all religions but with a second thought why not ask any individual if they have found another religion that's better than the one they left?
If someone says JWs are evil and false the next question any right thinking person needs to ask is:
"Have you found a better religion?"
Imagine a man/woman who keeps on talking about his/her ex but never speak about his/her new found love do you think he/she is sincere?
Ọmọ when you leave someone or something what you should be talking about is the next move but if you keep dwelling on the past then any intellectual will know that you are the problem yourself!🙂


Where is your honesty my friend?
This is not rocket science but common sense. Jesus was talking to twelve men and only two swords was found in their possession and Jesus said "it is enough" please how can two swords be enough for twelve men abi you forgot he said each of them must have his own?🥱
Ọmọ try and think deeper!🙂


Because Jesus said "by their FRUITS you will know" {Matthew 7:16-18} so what is the fruit of the JW organization?
Remember the fruit is not about the complaint that's different from place to place the fruit of a tree should be the same everywhere the tree is found.
So only Jehovah's Witnesses have the same fruit of Isaiah 2:4 globally. Members of this group no longer learn war anymore just as Jesus God's only begotten Son commanded his disciples! Mark 12:31🙂

Roycemadeit:
Isaiah 2:4 and then conclude that only Jehovah's Witnesses satisfy it. But Isaiah 2:4 says that people will “beat their swords into plowshares” and “learn war no more.” It doesn't say, “This will identify one modern religious organization.”

Roycemadeit:
You've added that part yourself. And even if Jehovah's Witnesses practice nonviolence globally, that establishes a characteristic of the organization, not automatically that God chose the organization.

Roycemadeit:
As for Luke 22:36, saying two swords could not possibly be enough for twelve men is precisely why the passage requires interpretation. But you cannot resolve that difficulty simply by declaring that Jesus meant something symbolic. The text says “sword”; Ephesians 6:17 gives a separate metaphor about the word of God. Show me where Luke 22:36 itself says the sword means Scripture.

Roycemadeit:
And that's the question you've continued to avoid: how do you know that the interpretation you're defending is God's interpretation rather than the interpretation your organization has given you?

MaxInDHouse:
This is the where Isaiah started:


In the last days the mountain of the Lord’s temple will be established as the highest of the mountains; it will be exalted above the hills, and all nations will stream to it. Isaiah 2:2
(The one and only true religion will be noticed by sincere people throughout the world )
Many peoples will come and say, “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the temple of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths.” The law will go out from Zion, the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. Isaiah 2:3
(They will use what is found in the Bible which is the word of the God of Abraham to teach themselves)
He will judge between the nations and will settle disputes for many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore. Isaiah 2:4
(‭God will use His word to judge those who come together as one religion, they will settle their disparities peacefully among themselves, erase making, buying, selling and using of weapons in their midst and they will no longer learn war)
Isaiah 2:2-4 NIV‬
Ọmọ no matter how stubborn you may prove to be Jehovah's Witnesses have achieved this globally among themselves and that is the sign showing that this group is the one and only true religion?🙂




Jesus is the Prince of Peace that is what he taught his disciples!🙂


Now you are joking right?😁


Because it's this organization that has fulfilled what God promised in the Bible book of Isaiah 2:2-4 while all others are still being influenced by Satan to kill themselves! Revelation 6:3-4🥱

You call Jesus the “Prince of Peace.” Let's look at what Jesus himself said.

Isaiah 9:6 calls someone the “Prince of Peace.” Yet Jesus says in Matthew 10:34-36:

“Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.”

He continues that his message would set father against son, daughter against mother, and members of the same household against one another.

Luke 12:51-53 repeats the point: “I tell you, not at all, but rather division.”

The Bible itself says his message would produce division, even within families.

How do you reconcile “Prince of Peace” with Jesus explicitly saying he came to bring a sword and division? That tension is in the text itself.
Now, who's joking

Roycemadeit:
What is “Jerusalem”? Where is the physical or identifiable mountain described in Isaiah?

Roycemadeit:
So if God had already given humanity the Bible, why did the definitive understanding of its prophecies supposedly have to emerge through a particular modern movement centuries later?

Roycemadeit:
[b]Are you saying nobody has ever left Jehovah's Witnesses because they concluded that its interpretation was wrong?

Roycemadeit:
How do you reconcile “Prince of Peace” with Jesus explicitly saying he came to bring a sword and division?

MaxInDHouse:
Zion symbolizes pure worship so when ancient Israelites sing songs of worship in that place they believe it's acceptable to God {Psalms 137:1} but Jesus said that place has lost its glory due to the attitude of its inhabitants! Matthew 23:37-38


Jesus said shortly after his death true worshipers will be wiped out by false religionists claiming Christians {Matthew 13:25} and in time it's this false religion that'll flourish globally causing confusion until when Jesus returns as a spirit king to restore pure worship {Matthew 13:30} it's then sincere people will be able to identify true religion because it will produce the same fruit as first century disciples of Christ! Matthew 7:16-18


There are many of them in this forum please ask them to present a better performing group than Jehovah's Witnesses!


His teachings will help separate evildoers from honest hearted people so while the honest hearted and sincere individuals use his teachings to achieve what Isaiah 2:2-4 while evildoers claiming they believe in God or Jesus will be blindfolded by Satan to continue hating, fighting and killing themselves! Revelation 6:3-4
So the sword Jesus brought which is truth found in God's word {Ephesians 6:17} will divide people so that righteous and the unrighteous people are separated! Hebrews 4:12
If Jesus actually brought physical sword how is it that he never used it neither does his first century disciples?
The only disciples who used the physical sword was reproved by Jesus whom you are quoting now! Matthew 26:52🥱

Roycemadeit:
Max, let's take your claims separately because you're repeatedly moving from what a verse says to what Jehovah's Witnesses interpret it to mean.
You say Zion symbolizes pure worship. But Isaiah 2:2-4 actually speaks of the mountain of the Lord, Zion and Jerusalem. Where does Isaiah tell us that these references represent a religious movement that would emerge from the nineteenth-century Bible Student movement and eventually become Jehovah's Witnesses?

You then say true worship disappeared after the first century and was eventually restored. But Matthew 13:24-30 doesn't say Christianity would disappear for centuries until Charles Taze Russell and the Bible Students emerged in the nineteenth century. If that's what the passage means, show how you get from Jesus' parable to that specific historical conclusion without first assuming Jehovah's Witness theology.

Then you appeal to “by their fruits” in Matthew 7:16-18. But you've already decided what the identifying fruits are, combined them with Isaiah 2:2-4, and then declared Jehovah's Witnesses the only organization fulfilling them. Where does Jesus say Isaiah 2:2-4 should be used as an exclusive test for identifying Jehovah's Witnesses centuries later? That's the connection I'm asking you to demonstrate.

Your argument about former JWs is equally strange. Someone doesn't need to find a “better religion” before concluding that Jehovah's Witnesses are wrong. Russell himself questioned the religious teachings available to him. Why should questioning one's religion count as searching for truth when it leads toward your movement, but become bitterness or dishonesty when someone applies the same scrutiny to Jehovah's Witnesses and leaves?

And there is another problem with using Ephesians to explain what Jesus meant in Luke. Luke's introduction, Luke 1:1-4, presents him as someone who investigated accounts handed down by eyewitnesses rather than claiming to be an eyewitness himself. Paul, traditionally regarded as the author of Ephesians, was not one of Jesus' original Twelve. Ephesians and Luke were therefore separate writings from different contexts. They were only brought together later as part of the developing New Testament canon, through the recognition and listing of these writings by early Catholic Christian leaders and church councils. So Ephesians 6:17 cannot simply be treated as Paul's explanation of what Jesus meant in Luke 22:36. If Ephesians had never become part of the New Testament, what evidence in Luke 22:36 itself would tell us that Jesus meant “Scripture” rather than an actual sword? The connection is an interpretation made later, not something Luke explicitly tells us.

MaxInDHouse:
All these things are simple but as you've chosen to be an atheist and you don't want to accept that there is original before fake you are angrily arguing as if your life depends on it.😁
Ọmọ God didn't just choose the Israelites or Jerusalem for jokes rather it's to start pure worship that will help gather honest hearted and sincere individuals globally. Isaiah 2:2
So when they failed the promise was given to another nation of people from different countries who are PRODUCING the fruit expected of true worshipers. Matthew 21:43
That is where Jehovah's Witnesses comes in!🙂