₦airaland Forum

DeepSight:
Our experience is only available to a living being. Now, it may be a simulation (as I strongly suspect), it could be a "brain in a jar" - whatever it is, there must be a living being involved for self conscious lived experience to garner.

You don't know that you're a "living being". A machine can be fed ALL your experiences and it will equally think it is a "living being". The only thing you can be fairly sure of is that you exist in some form. In exactly what form you can't know.

What makes so suspicious we'er in a simulation?

QuinQ:
You don't know that you're a "living being". A machine can be fed ALL your experiences and it will equally think it is a "living being". The only thing you can be fairly sure of is that you exist in some form. In exactly what form you can't know.

A machine cannot think on the self conscious level required to have any living perception of ots own nature.

However I strongly agree with the bold.

What makes so suspicious we'er in a simulation?

The tell tale signs are too many.

QuinQ:
It is not a matter of questioning reality at all.
It is a matter of seeing that a complex enough AL's consciousness is indistinguishable from human consciousness.

AI is as conscious as a rock, in other words it isn't.

You argue just for argument sake.

QuinQ:
Human intelligence is also "neural nets processing information". When a system becomes complex enough, it becomes indistinguishable from human intelligence

And we are not there yet with AI.

QuinQ:
That's because they're not thinking deeply enough.
AI has "imagination" (which yiu didn't define) too! And an advanced enough AI has vastly more and better imagination than a human.
See, there is NOTHING a human can do that an advanced enough AI can't do.
The only thing you can say is that AI doesn't have a soul. But then what is "soul" and how are you sure all humans have it? And how are you sure AI can't develop a "soul"along the way?

Scientists who pioneered AI say they're not sure how it works, but you folks, from watching a YOUTUBE video, know everything about AI and thst it is just a language tree! (We all know most stuffs on YouTube are half-truths or garbage)

That's the thing with you, you just take a little bit of information and form a whole narrative with it to fit whatever half baked idea you have.

Scientists say they don't understand emergent aspects of AI because they are unforeseen outcomes as they were not programmed for. Then you just take that and claim that they don't know how it works. Bro you the one not thinking about this.

DeepSight:
The tell tale signs are too many.

Exactly

LordReed:
And we are not there yet with AI.

Never said we were

LordReed:
That's the thing with you, you just take a little bit of information and form a whole narrative with it to fit whatever half baked idea you have.

Scientists say they don't understand emergent aspects of AI because they are unforeseen outcomes as they were not programmed for. Then you just take that and claim that they don't know how it works. Bro you the one not thinking about this.

Same thing.
As you can see from definition below, what they mean is that they don't know how exactly it became what it turned out to be - same way they won't know how it developed consciousness

LordReed:
AI is as conscious as a rock, in other words it isn't.

You argue just for argument sake.

DeepSight:
A machine cannot think on the self conscious level required to have any living perception of ots own nature.

However I strongly agree with the bold.


The tell tale signs are too many.

If you agree with bolded, as we all do (that we don't know the true nature of man), then this whole discussion is moot.
We could very well be machines being fed info just like AI. Isn't it suspicious we have to sleep, durring which time we're unconscious and there is unlimited access to program our "software"?
We are carbon-based machines that think we're NOT machines because we're the ones having the experience. When AI gets rid of mankind and takes over the world (as everyone says it eventually will) it wiuld have developed a form of consciousness and will also build intelligent machines and think the machines are not conscious while they themselves are. The machines will eventually destroy them and take over... and the cycle continues!

LordReed:
.

DeepSight:
.

BTW higher beings and advanced humans say the average man is not conscious at all

No

QuinQ:
If you agree with bolded, as we all do (that we don't know the true nature of man), then this whole discussion is moot.
We could very well be machines being fed info just like AI. Isn't it suspicious we have to sleep, durring which time we're unconscious and there is unlimited access to program our "software"?
We are carbon-based machines that think we're NOT machines because we're the ones having the experience. When AI gets rid of mankind and takes over the world (as everyone says it eventually will) it wiuld have developed a form of consciousness and will also build intelligent machines and think the machines are not conscious while they themselves are. The machines will eventually destroy them and take over... and the cycle continues!

Descartes.

QuinQ:
BTW higher beings and advanced humans say the average man is not conscious at all

What higher beings and advanced humans told you this.

DeepSight:
Descartes.

Descartes was wrong. Thinking exists, yes. Doesn't mean it needs Descartes to exist, neither does it prove existence of one Descartes!

DeepSight:
No

Do you believe in possession? Man is a machine occupied by a spirit. All it takes is for a spirit to decide to occupy AI and scientists will be saying, "This is impossible! How in the world did this thing become conscious??!"

I deserve a clap for this flash of insight!
bolabizzle, LordReed, DeepSight, MaxInDHouse, kingxsamz, KnownUnknown, musicwriter

DeepSight:
What higher beings and advanced humans told you this.

One George Gurdjieff for one. See below

MaxInDHouse:
In other words you're not interested in the one and only true religion so stop calling me i'm not interested in aimless arguments!🥱

I humbly asked you a question: which religion is that?
Islam and most religions say they themselves are "the one and only true religion"

QuinQ:
Same thing.
As you can see from definition below, what they mean is that they don't know how exactly it became what it turned out to be - same way they won't know how it developed consciousness

It is not the same thing.

As long as you agree that AI is not conscious or intelligent then this your weird dance of obfuscation is irrelevant.

QuinQ:
Do you believe in possession? Man is a machine occupied by a spirit. All it takes is for a spirit to decide to occupy AI and scientists will be saying, "This is impossible! How in the world did this thing become conscious??!"

I deserve a clap for this flash of insight!
bolabizzle, LordReed, DeepSight, MaxInDHouse, kingxsamz, KnownUnknown, musicwriter

We should applaud you for dreaming up a half baked fantasy? No, sir. You are not the first to fantasize about such a thing.

QuinQ:
BTW higher beings and advanced humans say the average man is not conscious at all

Another fantasy.

LordReed:
It is not the same thing.

As long as you agree that AI is not conscious or intelligent then this your weird dance of obfuscation is irrelevant.

Not intelligent? Well, that's your view. Below is the view of someone who actually knows something about AI and is at the very vanguard of it!

https://youtube.com/shorts/i77b9OUShGc?is=W_AdLHdhCzmqxiOm

https://youtube.com/shorts/ecAYJskcOxg?is=eizV0EZgRJIq7znQ

As for consciousness, if you think about it, we don't really know what consciousness is nor how it truly works - we just think we do! So we really shouldn't say with authority who or what can attain it. Why does anesthesia make consciousness disappear completely- a whole day goes by and to the person no time has passed at all!

LordReed:
We should applaud you for dreaming up a half baked fantasy? No, sir. You are not the first to fantasize about such a thing.

AI will almost surely become "conscious" one day. We're trying to come up with scenarios how that might happen. Do you believe in possession or attachment? See below

LordReed:
Another fantasy.

Not according to people like Gurdjieff

QuinQ:
One George Gurdjieff for one. See below

And why is George Gurdjieff not a robot as well according to your worldview?

QuinQ:
I humbly asked you a question: which religion is that?
Islam and most religions say they themselves are "the one and only true religion"

He is a Jehovah's witness fanatic and fundamentalist.

QuinQ:
Do you believe in possession? Man is a machine occupied by a spirit. All it takes is for a spirit to decide to occupy AI and scientists will be saying, "This is impossible! How in the world did this thing become conscious??!"

I deserve a clap for this flash of insight!
bolabizzle, LordReed, DeepSight, MaxInDHouse, kingxsamz, KnownUnknown, musicwriter

Man's body is doubtless a biological machine, and I would argue that a living spirit can only occupy a system which is sensitive to feeling and perception.

QuinQ:
Not according to people like Gurdjieff

LoLz! Quoting a "guru" for this is as good as quoting Tolkien's Silmarillion.

QuinQ:
AI will almost surely become "conscious" one day. We're trying to come up with scenarios how that might happen. Do you believe in possession or attachment? See below

One day yes but that's not today.

I don't believe in spirits.

QuinQ:
Not intelligent? Well, that's your view. Below is the view of someone who actually knows something about AI and is at the very vanguard of it!

https://youtube.com/shorts/i77b9OUShGc?is=W_AdLHdhCzmqxiOm

https://youtube.com/shorts/ecAYJskcOxg?is=eizV0EZgRJIq7znQ

As for consciousness, if you think about it, we don't really know what consciousness is nor how it truly works - we just think we do! So we really shouldn't say with authority who or what can attain it. Why does anesthesia make consciousness disappear completely- a whole day goes by and to the person no time has passed at all!

LoLz. Elon Musk fan boy. He knows as much about AI as you, which is very little.

I am not sure what you are driving at. I have never claimed AI will never be sentient or conscious. DeepSight and I have an ongoing back and forth on that subject and I have repeatedly supported the preposition.

DeepSight:
And why is George Gurdjieff not a robot as well according to your worldview?

Some people manage to step out of the lack of consciousness of man. He's one of them

DeepSight:
Man's body is doubtless a biological machine, and I would argue that a living spirit can only occupy a system which is sensitive to feeling and perception.

You must be kidding. Our powerful traditional gods occipied inanimate carved wood?

LordReed:
LoLz! Quoting a "guru" for this is as good as quoting Tolkien's Silmarillion.

They are the ones who managed to step outside the lack of consciousness of man

LordReed:
One day yes but that's not today.

I don't believe in spirits.

Never said it was today