₦airaland Forum

atlwireles:
I actually do, and most times even more.

Give me range of your tithe.

BlackTechnology:
Don't deceive yourself ooooo


Rich pastors do business outside Church oooo


Show me a wealthy pastor and I will show you a business owner outside Church

Let's return back to our American oil at $65.

BlackTechnology:
Give me range of your tithe.

atlwireles:
Let's return back to our American oil at $65.

HahahahahahahaHahahahahahaha

OK no problem.


But I stand on this view that government should stimulate the economy before taxing the economy.


Lets use some part of our reserve to invest into profitable ventures in order to stimulate our economy before taxing the economy


Major profitable ventures are agriculture, natural resources and manufacturing.

Massive supply overcoming demand in these sectors will boom the economy making more money appear in peoples pockets when their jobs/businesses pay them better due to good turn over or reduce the money leaving peoples pockets as price of goods/services crash due to fall in cost of doing business eg raw materials.

This will empower our people to pay taxes .

BlackTechnology:
HahahahahahahaHahahahahahaha

OK no problem.


But I stand on this view that government should stimulate the economy before taxing the economy.


Lets use some part of our reserve to invest into profitable ventures in order to stimulate our economy before taxing the economy


Major profitable ventures are agriculture, natural resources and manufacturing.

Massive supply overcoming demand in these sectors will boom the economy making more money appear in peoples pockets or reduce the money leaving peoples pockets. This will empower our people to pay taxes .

The Nigerian reserve will not be used by any government for investment. That's the insurance our T bills and import receipts have in the international market.

The question is what comes first, the chicken or the egg. People have money now, why not tax now? We cannot stimulate the economy without money. Either taxed or borrowed.

atlwireles:
The Nigerian reserve will not be used by any government for investment. That's the insurance our T bills and import receipts have in the international market.

The question is what comes first, the chicken or the egg. People have money now, why not tax now? We cannot stimulate the economy without money. Either taxed or borrowed.

Not all our reserve that should be used.

10% of $30b is equals to $3b


This can help

1) convert over 20,000sqkm of our land into agricultural fields generating so much raw materials that can crash the cost of doing agro-allied businesses thereby crashing the price of their finished products which will help reduce the amount of money leaving peoples pockets.

2) tap our other natural resources and process them.

3) produce/manufacture the products we import.

atlwireles:
If you cannot pay taxes on your 20,000, don't complain about government services. Nigeria will not be built by men from mars. Most of the same people don't have a problem paying their 10% offerings in church.

THANK YOU. BEST POST OF THE THREAD.

Honestly speaking, if that 10% those people pay to those pastors were to be channelled into taxes for development, we would have ended poverty in this country by now.

American economy is as rugged as the americans. If opec is thinking of outplaying usa in anyway, america will have the last laugh. Opec members should wake up and address the current problem with speed and utmost caution.

akoaki:
American economy is as rugged as the americans. If opec is thinking of outplaying usa in anyway, america will have the last laugh. Opec members should wake up and address the current problem with speed and utmost caution.

You keep forgetting that most of these players went to the same schools,competed with each other and graduated with the same honors. They also bleed irrespective of the country. Every human is adaptive. If Americas plays there hands so will others. It is called economics.

BlackTechnology:
Not all our reserve that should be used.

10% of $30b is equals to $3b


This can help

1) convert over 20,000sqkm of our land into agricultural fields generating so much raw materials that can crash the cost of doing agro-allied businesses thereby crashing the price of their finished products which will help reduce the amount of money leaving peoples pockets.

2) tap our other natural resources and process them.

3) produce/manufacture the products we import.

But these things costs more than 3 billion dollars.

atlwireles:
Stop telling yourself that lie. Corruption has never been the problem in Nigeria, but a failed structure.

definitely you are a partisan politician. just like gej stealing is not corruption, SMH

kmariko:
But these things costs more than 3 billion dollars.

Yes

But $3b can be used to generate more money. These investments will then be privatized and the money/profit used to re-invest into other income ventures that will be later privatized and the process repeated again and again for at least 20yrs.

iaatmguy:
definitely you are a partisan politician. just like gej stealing is not corruption, SMH

He has a point


Corruption is not our major problem but the structure that makes corruption possible and thrive.

atlwireles:
If you cannot pay taxes on your 20,000, don't complain about government services. Nigeria will not be built by men from mars. Most of the same people don't have a problem paying their 10% offerings in church.

You got me cracked up big time.

BlackTechnology:
He has a point


Corruption is not our major problem but the structure that makes corruption possible and thrive.

I will slightly disagree with you on that...
A typical example that readily comes to mind is the issue of our PIB where the law makers are been bribed by major oil giants in Nigeria not to pass the bill.

You will agree with me that the Bill is a major game changer that will instil the needed structure in the system

Secondly is the subsidy issue where the same law makers are being bribed to truncate the ruling( otedola and farook).

Its quite agreeable that structures when properly imposed will eradicate corruption in the system. However the polices for instituting these structures will be enacted by the same set of corrupt, egocentric, pot-bellied, gate scalers in the house of assembly that got to that seat through electoral malpractice.

So corruption presupposes all of them.

conyema12:
I will slightly disagree with you on that...
A typical example that readily comes to mind is the issue of our PIB where the law makers are been bribed by major oil giants in Nigeria not to pass the bill.

You will agree with me that the Bill is a major game changer that will instil the needed structure in the system

Secondly is the subsidy issue where the same law makers are being bribed to truncate the ruling( otedola and farook).

Its quite agreeable that structures when properly imposed will eradicate corruption in the system. However the polices for instituting these structures will be enacted by the same set of corrupt, egocentric, pot-bellied, gate scalers in the house of assembly that got to that seat through electoral malpractice.

So corruption presupposes all of them.

But it is the political structure that first created the assembly you accuse of being corrupt. If the structure of the polity had shifted some of the responsibilities of the assembly as regards the PIB for example to the original "communities" it is well expected that the community will put themselves first before the companies... Because they the communities do also have profit motives as the bribing oil companies

kmariko:
But it is the political structure that first created the assembly you accuse of being corrupt. If the structure of the polity had shifted some of the responsibilities of the assembly as regards the PIB for example to the original "communities" it is well expected that the community will put themselves first before the companies... Because they the communities do also have profit motives as the bribing oil companies

But our political structure (Executive Legislative and Judiciary) is not different from that of most western democratic nations that is less corrupt.

The difference to me still remains the people in this structures. These are the people that will enact policies that will eradicate corruption and move the economy. But these people (legislators) are corrupt themselves and their nefarious activities of enriching themselves at the detriment of the nations economy thrives only in a corrupt ridden society.

BlackTechnology:
Not all our reserve that should be used.

10% of $30b is equals to $3b


This can help

1) convert over 20,000sqkm of our land into agricultural fields generating so much raw materials that can crash the cost of doing agro-allied businesses thereby crashing the price of their finished products which will help reduce the amount of money leaving peoples pockets.

2) tap our other natural resources and process them.

3) produce/manufacture the products we import.

Nigeria needs a 12 months -18 months policy guideline to deal with $65 oil prices. Will your suggestions change our budgetary fundamentals.

That is the test here.

Even the American oil players are reacting to falling prices. Drilling permits are done 40% within the last 60 days and credit is slowing down for new projects. This are the reactions OPEC was expecting. Nevertheless oil below $70 is the new normal.

conyema12:
But our political structure (Executive Legislative and Judiciary) is not different from that of most western democratic nations that is less corrupt.

The difference to me still remains the people in this structures. These are the people that will enact policies that will eradicate corruption and move the economy. But these people (legislators) are corrupt themselves and their nefarious activities of enriching themselves at the detriment of the nations economy thrives only in a corrupt ridden society.

That's exactly the point. Western ,African and Asian cultures are different. What the west call corruption in say our cultural setting e.g Dash is Tip in there's or omiage in some Asian countries but all have different connotations. We should not have used the western institutional ideas as a template for ours as theirs evolved from their cultural way of living. Japan evolved through their cultural lifestyle.
We are not and have no relationship with Western culture besides their historical imposition.
Still that political structural deficit we have and the attendant problems is reliance and use of Western political culture.

atlwireles:
Nigeria needs a 12 months -18 months policy guideline to deal with $65 oil prices. Will your suggestions change our budgetary fundamentals.

That is the test here.

If I am GEJ, I will insist that $50 a barrel should be the budgetary fundamental while the $15 remaining per barrel should be invested into profitable processed agricultural , processed natural resources and manufacturing businesses.


If this is done and the businesses privatized after 10yrs, Nigeria will breakout.

BlackTechnology:
If I am GEJ, I will insist that $50 a barrel should be the budgetary fundamental while the $15 remaining per barrel should be invested into profitable processed agricultural , processed natural resources and manufacturing businesses.


If this is done and the businesses privatized after 10yrs, Nigeria will breakout.

You don't have $15, if prices fall to $48 what are you going to do? Oil money is not a solution.

conyema12:
I will slightly disagree with you on that...
A typical example that readily comes to mind is the issue of our PIB where the law makers are been bribed by major oil giants in Nigeria not to pass the bill.

You will agree with me that the Bill is a major game changer that will instil the needed structure in the system

Secondly is the subsidy issue where the same law makers are being bribed to truncate the ruling( otedola and farook).

Its quite agreeable that structures when properly imposed will eradicate corruption in the system. However the polices for instituting these structures will be enacted by the same set of corrupt, egocentric, pot-bellied, gate scalers in the house of assembly that got to that seat through electoral malpractice.

So corruption presupposes all of them.

You have a point

But

Rather than waste our time fighting corruption, we should spend our time fighting to establish the right structures needed to curtail corruption.


Men will always be who they are but structures will cut their evil wings

atlwireles:
You don't have $15, if prices fall to $48 what are you going to do? Oil money is not a solution.

Oil money is one of the solutions if properly utilized.


Now let's assume oil falls to $30 per barrel. If Nigeria invests $10 per barrel in processed agricultural/ natural resources and manufacturing businesses in years to come we will break out if we privatize the businesses after 10yrs.

BlackTechnology:
Oil money is one of the solutions if properly utilized.


Now let's assume oil falls to $30 per barrel. If Nigeria invests $10 per barrel in processed agricultural/ natural resources and manufacturing businesses in years to come we will break out if we privatize the businesses after 10yrs.

I hope no government in Nigeria ever again, involves itself directly, in Agriculture or Manufacturing. Some of us are praying for them to get out of petroleum sector. We have been there and done that.

When Nigeria is prepared to implement an across the board tax policy, the country will stop drowning in poverty. Oil should not be more than 30% of our budget. This is a bridge we must build and cross.

atlwireles:
I hope no government in Nigeria ever again, involves itself directly, in Agriculture or Manufacturing. Some of us are praying for them to get out of petroleum sector. We have been there and done that.

When Nigeria is prepared to implement an across the board tax policy, the country will stop drowning in poverty. Oil should not be more than 30% of our budget. This is a bridge we must build and cross.

Nobody is against taxes but I believe we should boom the economy first before taxing the economy.


By investing a very good portion of our oil wealth into processed agriculture/natural resources and manufacturing businesses and privatize these businesses after 10yrs,
1) We will supply our market with cheap raw materials which will help crash price of finished products helping every one to save some money of which people will be able to part ways with some in the name of tax without complaining.

2) These businesses will create more direct or indirect jobs thereby putting more money into peoples pockets and enabling them to be able to pay taxes without feeling the pressure.


Also note

As old businesses makes more profits and new businesses spring up, the taxes entering government purse will escalate.

BlackTechnology:
Nobody is against taxes but I believe we should boom the economy first before taxing the economy.


By investing a very good portion of our wealth into processed agriculture/natural resources and manufacturing businesses and privatize these businesses after 10yrs,
1) We will supply our market with cheap raw materials which will help crash price of finished products helping every one to save some money of which people will be able to part ways with some in the name of tax without complaining.

2) These businesses will create more direct or indirect jobs thereby putting more money into peoples pockets and enabling them to be able to pay taxes without feeling the pressure.


Also note

As old businesses makes more profits and new businesses spring up, the taxes entering government purse will escalate.

You don't have any wealth to invest, why is this fact lost to you. Our 2014 budget is already 30% in the red, based on current oil prices. How are you going to make up for that shortfall, before you invest in all your dream projects.

atlwireles:
You don't have any wealth to invest, why is this fact lost to you. Our 2014 budget is already 30% in the red, based on current oil prices. How are you going to make up for that shortfall, before you invest in all your dream projects.

Budget is a blueprint of what you plan to spend money on.

Now we can remove some items on our budget in order to divert some oil money into establishment of processed agriculture/natural resources and manufacturing businesses in order to achieve the things I stated in my last post

BlackTechnology:
Budget is a blueprint of what you plan to spend money on.

Now we can remove some items on our budget in order to divert some oil money into establishment of processed agriculture/natural resources and manufacturing businesses in order to achieve the things I stated in my last post

We are going in circles here.

What is all this talk about tax increment?

The easiest and best way to raise money to adjust for fall in crude oil price,is to reduce the number of govt officers and drastically reduce their salaries.

For a start, i think we can scrap the house of representatives, they are waste of public money,we don't need them, and start operating a unicameral legistlature by using just the senate house, whose members salaries,allowances and kick backs must have been reduced to be at par with those in the civil service.


Any attempt by the looting elites to increase taxation of the already impoverished massess without first taking pay cuts and reducing drastically the cost of governance,would be met with severe resistance by the people. With the war going on in the north already overstretching the Nigerian Army,i wonder how the govt intend to quell any civil uprising, they would be simply playing into the hands of secession apologists.

Anybody who speaks of increase in taxation as the solution to our current budget deficeit, is insincere, unpatroitic,wicked and anti people.

The first solution to our problem, is to reduce the cost of governance, when we have done this, then we can re visit our taxation policy, which i agree has to change. But you don't put the cart( Tax) before the horse(reduction in cost of governance).


Dalu kwanu.

atlwireles:
We are going in circles here.

OK

But my view is boom the economy first before taxing the economy.

Nigeria is full of poor people and struggling businesses.


High taxation was a major reason behind the fall of Roman Russia etc empires.



Even pazienza view of cutting down cost of government is more better than taxation.