₦airaland Forum

[quote author=An2elect2 post=30656277]

*takes a deep breath* huuuh. Thank God there was no fight. Murmurs to herself *is this guy for real? others would jump on me and devour me with their 'dogma'*

I just saw some of your posts and you don't think some books in the bible are valid or have much authority like the others

Ayoku 777 is really dividing the word....rightly. Am glad the both of you are still on it o.

If even one verse in the bible is not God-breathed and sovereignly allowed by Him then it is enough for us to doubt the whole scriptures. You don't think so?

At bolded seems like you passing the baton over to him.

An2elect2:
Hi , well i don't belong to any denomination. Am yet to see one that is not a sham...

here. ..*gives her white handkerchief*

Sham? Even though they serve the same God and use the same Bible?

I salute your courage my friend, it shows you're open and more keen about the Truth.

In my opinion, the breaking away of the church into numerous denominations became possible with the use of the authoritative phrase: "Thus Saith the Lord" or in our parlance, "The Holy Spirit ministered to me..."

I won't rebuke or ask you why but in Christ Words I'd say: Mark 12:34 "Thou art not far from the kingdom of God."

I encourage you to seek on, and when you eventually find that denomination that isn't a sham, I know you will not be deceived/misled in any way because you know the truth which is in your hands.

Remain blessed.

ayoku777:
That is why I said read the bible very well, and ask the Holy Spirit for understanding and He will give you.

If you had studied the scriptures well, you would have seen God do that on more than one occasion. Judging a people after they fulfilled a prophecy that was the will of God; or judging a nation after they carried out a judgment that was the pleasure of God.

God used the Assyrians to judge the nation of Israel after they turned their backs on Him and went after idols. After repeated warnings of judgment against them; He used the Assyrians to fulfil the prophecy of judgment against the nation of Israel and carry out His will against His people.

Yet God still judged the Assyrians for what they did against the nation of Israel even though what they did was carry out God's prophecy of judgment against His people; somethinng that was His will.

God also used the Nebuchadnezzer and Babylon to judge and punish backslidden Judah after repeated warnings to repent. God delivered Judah and her people into the hands of Babylon and they fulfilled God's pleasure upon idolatrous Judah. God even called Nebuchadnezzar "My servant" and babylon "My Army"; to show that He used them to do His will and perform His pleasure against Judah.

Yet God still punished and judged Babylon for what they did to Judah the same way He punished and judged Assyria for what they did to Israel.

2Kings 17v22-23 -For the children of Israel walked in all the sins of Jeroboam which he did; they departed not from them;

Until the Lord removed Israel out of His sight, as He has said by all of His servants the prophets. So was Israel carried away out of their own land to Assyria unto this day.

Jeremiah 34v21 -And Zedekiah King of Judah and his princes will I give into the hand of their enemies, and into the hand of them that seek their life, and into the hand of the king of Babylon's army, which are gone up from you.

Behold, I will command, saith the Lord, and cause them to return to this city; and they shall fight against it, and take it, and burn it with fire: and I will make the cities of Judah a desolation without an inhabitant.

Jeremiah 25v8-9,11 -Therefore thus saith the Lord of hosts; Becasue ye have not heard my words,

Behold, I will send and take all the families of the north, saith the Lord, and Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, MY SERVANT, and will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all these nations round about, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishmetn, and an hissing, and perpetual desolations.

And this whole land shall be a desolation, and an astonishment; and these nations shall serve the King of Babylon seventy years.

Can you see all these scriptures?

It shows that everything that happened to Israel and Judah was the will of God, it was Him that commanded it. God kept saying "I WILL" to show it was Him doing it. Assyria and Babylon were instruments of judgment in His hands, so much that God called Nebuchadnezzar my servant.

Yet look at what God did later. He still judged and punished Assyria and Babylon for what they did to Israel and Judah.

Jeremiah 25v12-14 -And it shall come to pass, when seventy years are accomplished, that I will punish the king of Babylon, and that nation, saith the Lord, for their iniquity, and the land of the Chaldeans, and will make it a perpetual desolations.

And I will bring upon that land all my words which I have pronounced against it, even all that is written in this book, which Jeremiah hath prophesied against all the nations.

Jeremiah 50v17-18 -Israel is a scattered sheep; the lions have driven him away: first the king of Assyria hath devoured him; and last this Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon hath broken his bones.

Therefore thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will punish the king of Babylon and his land, as I have punished the king of Assyria.

Babylon did what God commanded (His will); God said "I will command" Babylon. And yet He still punished and judged Babylon for what they did to Judah.

So can you see now? That the fact that judgment was pronounced on a nation or a people doesn't mean what they did wasn't part of God's plan, will and pleasure.

God still judges His instruments of judgment.

Jesus came to die, His death was according to the will and pleasure of the Father. Even so the nation that delivered Him and the person that betrayed Him (Israel and Judas) were both judged.

If you have issues with this character of God, seek Him by His Spirit He will put you through. God judges His instruments of Judgment. When God judged the sin of the world in Christ according to His will, He still judged the nation and the people that delivered Him to be killed. Just as He judged the nations He used to judge the sins of Israel and Judah.

Assyria performed God's purpose upon Israel, Babylon carried out God's command upon Judah; and Israel worked out God's will for Jesus. Yet they were still judged and punished.

So yes Jesus came to die and give His life as a sin offering. And the fact that judgment was pronounced on the nation and people that delivered Him to be killed doesn't mean His death wasn't the will of the Father or a performance of His pleasure.
Shalom!

Shalom!
That was a nice intro@bolded

I am glad you took your time to expatiate, but you only expanded upon this your statement:

"That judgment was pronounced on the people and nation that delivered Him doesn't mean it wasn't part of God's plan."

But it didn't clarify this stance:

For how can judgement (Divine Punishment/Woe) be pronounced on the individual, people and nation that fulfilled what pleased the Lord?

"Thus Saith the Lord..!"
That a statement or command begins with "Thus saith the Lord", doesn't mean we should swallow hook, line and sinker, that such a command emanates unequivocally from God...If you doubt me then feel free to ask the leaders and proponents of the sects: ISIL/ISIS, Al-Qaeda or Boko-Haram.

I appreciate the Bible passages you quoted here (of which I'll expand upon in the next post), for the viewers to see and understand that God cannot be an author of confusion.

Expressions:
I appreciate the Bible passages you quoted here (of which I'll expand upon in the next post), for the viewers to see and understand that God cannot be an author of confusion.

There is GOD and there is the Man-made-God. -

This is God:

• Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent...

• Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is flawless (NIV): he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

• Hebrew 6:18 So God has given both his promise and his oath. These two things are unchangeable because it is impossible for God to lie. Therefore, we who have fled to him for refuge can have great confidence as we hold to the hope that lies before us. (NLT)

• Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began (KJV) etc.

This is the Man-made-God:

• Jeremiah 20:7 O LORD, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived: thou art stronger than I, and hast prevailed: I am in derision daily, every one mocketh me.

• Ezekiel 14:9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel. etc.

My Point:

• Proverbs 30:6 Don't add to his words, or he will rebuke you, and you will be shown to be a liar. (ISV)
-"Don't add", implies a possibility of adding; and should it happen, it is NOT GOD who lies, but Man it is, who lies and allows himself to be deceived.

Conclusion:

• Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
-Even the prophets weren't exempted(for allowing himself to be deceived NOT BY GOD, the prophet was punished nevertheless) how much more/less... mankind?


Once again my friend, on a personal note, I really would like to know one thing from you, be honest, strictly personal:

If you had a very good, justifiable reason, would you... kill me?

Remain blessed.

Expressions:
Shalom!
That was a nice intro@bolded

I am glad you took your time to expatiate, but you only expanded upon this your statement:

"That judgment was pronounced on the people and nation that delivered Him doesn't mean it wasn't part of God's plan."

But it didn't clarify this stance:

For how can judgement (Divine Punishment/Woe) be pronounced on the individual, people and nation that fulfilled what pleased the Lord?

"Thus Saith the Lord..!"
That a statement or command begins with "Thus saith the Lord", doesn't mean we should swallow hook, line and sinker, that such a command emanates unequivocally from God...If you doubt me then feel free to ask the leaders and proponents of the sects: ISIL/ISIS, Al-Qaeda or Boko-Haram.

I appreciate the Bible passages you quoted here (of which I'll expand upon in the next post), for the viewers to see and understand that God cannot be an author of confusion.

Its finally and obviously clear that you don't believe the bible is the word of God.

First you implied that the writings of the apostles are not trustworthy. Now, you say not all the 'thus saith the Lord' of the scriptural books of the bible prophets are the words of God.

So how do you know which 'thus saith the Lord' is true and which is false? Your opinion decides it?

How do you know the writings of Matthew and Luke are trustworthy but the writings of Paul and Peter are not? Your opinion tells you? So your opinion now defines truth?

I can't debate doctrine with someone who uses his opinion as the foundation for truth, because no matter what portion of scripture i quote you will say, that scripture is not trustworthy, its not the word of God.

And how do you know that? Your opinion says so. Just come out plain, you don't believe in the scriptures as the word of God. You even equate the 'thus saith the Lord' in the bible to the koranic texts of muslims. What absurdity!

Whenever a scipture contradicts your opinion, you throw it out as "not trustworthy"; or "that verse is not the word of God". So now, "The word of God" is whatever your opinion agrees with.

I've shown you from the old testament how it was the Father's will to bruise the Son and make His soul an offering for sin. Showed you from the gospel how Jesus said it was A MUST for Him to be lifted up on the cross just like the serpent of Moses in the wilderness. And showed from the epistles how that the death of a testator is compulsory to give life to a testament.

Yet all these scriptures are not trustworthy to you. If you don't believe the prophets, the gospels and the epistles; or you only choose what you want to believe in them, then YOU DON'T BELIEVE THE SCRIPTURES! Simple.

You ask questions, and we use bible passages to give detailed answers; and you say those verses are not trustworthy, or that 'thus saith the Lord' is not the word of God.

At this point, maybe we will need you to write out what portions of the words of the old testament you consider inspired and not inspired; what portions of the statements of Jesus you consider true and not true; and what portions of the epistles of the apostles you consider trustworthy and not trustworthy. So we know what part we should not quote from when answering your questions from the bible.

Its impossible to edify someone like that with the scriptures. Because you've made your personal opinion the foundation of what you define as true and trustworthy in the scripture. And that is the recipe for self-delusion.

I think my work on this thread is done for now.

ayoku777:
Its finally and obviously clear that you don't believe the bible is the word of God.

First you implied that the writings of the apostles are not trustworthy. Now, you say not all the 'thus saith the Lord' of the scriptural books of the bible prophets are the words of God.

So how do you know which 'thus saith the Lord' is true and which is false? Your opinion decides it?

How do you know the writings of Matthew and Luke are trustworthy but the writings of Paul and Peter are not? Your opinion tells you? So your opinion now defines truth?

I can't debate doctrine with someone who uses his opinion as the foundation for truth, because no matter what portion of scripture i quote you will say, that scripture is not trustworthy, its not the word of God.

And how do you know that? Your opinion says so. Just come out plain, you don't believe in the scriptures as the word of God. You even equate the 'thus saith the Lord' in the bible to the koranic texts of muslims. What absurdity!

Whenever a scipture contradicts your opinion, you throw it out as "not trustworthy"; or "that verse is not the word of God". So now, "The word of God" is whatever your opinion agrees with.

I've shown you from the old testament how it was the Father's will to bruise the Son and make His soul an offering for sin. Showed you from the gospel how Jesus said it was A MUST for Him to be lifted up on the cross just like the serpent of Moses in the wilderness. And showed from the epistles how that the death of a testator is compulsory to give life to a testament.

Yet all these scriptures are not trustworthy to you. If you don't believe the prophets, the gospels and the epistles; or you only choose what you want to believe in them, then YOU DON'T BELIEVE THE SCRIPTURES! Simple.

You ask questions, and we use bible passages to give detailed answers; and you say those verses are not trustworthy, or that 'thus saith the Lord' is not the word of God.

At this point, maybe we will need you to write out what portions of the words of the old testament you consider inspired and not inspired; what portions of the statements of Jesus you consider true and not true; and what portions of the epistles of the apostles you consider trustworthy and not trustworthy. So we know what part we should not quote from when answering your questions from the bible.

Its impossible to edify someone like that with the scriptures. Because you've made your personal opinion the foundation of what you define as true and trustworthy in the scripture. And that is the recipe for self-delusion.

I think my work on this thread is done for now.

@bolded:

I never said I don't believe the prophets, the gospels and the epistles, neither have I said I DON'T BELIEVE THE SCRIPTURES; you have said so... nevertheless I tell you that Truth was, is and will ever be the foundation/basis of any opinion, doctrine, religion, relationship, field of study... not the other way round. My/your/anyone's opinion should not &cannot define Truth, never!

Take for instance:

1 + 1= 2 is truth (in the physical world) and the basis/foundation for further mathematical expressions. If any asserts, even in the name of Pythagora, that 1+1=3 it doesn't matter the number of persons that believe in such a person, I would insist it's 2.

Truth is Eternal, Unchangeable! Christ came to bear witness to the Truth so that we may not be lost in the varied opinions&doctrines of people.

And I never mentioned Islam nor its sacred writings; I only made reference to the sects/denominations perpetrating evil- the dastardly act of murder. And this they do under the religion Islam and in the Name of Allah (Arabic name for God)...isn't that reminiscent of the phrase "Thus saith the Lord"?

You my friend should respect the religious beliefs of others, Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) was a prophet of God sent to the people of Arabia.

It's only a matter of time when sects will rise up under the Christian religion, killing people as well and justifying such hideous acts with the citations you have offered here. It has already begun but not as intensified as what we have with the so called Islamic sects which the true Muslim faithfuls have rejected and condemned for what they truly are.

"Thou shalt not kill" is basic Truth (in the physical world), visible to the blind and audible even to the deaf, anyone who says the Lord commands you to kill has deviated from the Truth!

So my friend, first you tried to discredit me by saying, "I should read my Bible very well" and then when I cited more Scriptures, you dismissed me as delusional

No hard feelings, like I always say: the Truth is in your hands, study the scriptures.

Since your work is done on this thread (though you said for now ) then, once again it is with this question that I'll rest my case:

If you had a very good, justifiable reason, would you... kill me?

Remain blessed.. and Happy Sunday to you all.

Expressions:
@bolded:

I never said I don't believe the prophets, the gospels and the epistles, neither have I said I DON'T BELIEVE THE SCRIPTURES; you have said so... nevertheless I tell you that Truth was, is and will ever be the foundation/basis of any opinion, doctrine, religion, relationship, field of study... not the other way round. My/your/anyone's opinion should not &cannot define Truth, never!

Take for instance:

1 + 1= 2 is truth (in the physical world) and the basis/foundation for further mathematical expressions. If any asserts, even in the name of Pythagora, that 1+1=3 it doesn't matter the number of persons that believe in such a person, I would insist it's 2.

Truth is Eternal, Unchangeable! Christ came to bear witness to the Truth so that we may not be lost in the varied opinions&doctrines of people.

And I never mentioned Islam nor its sacred writings; I only made reference to the sects/denominations perpetrating evil- the dastardly act of murder. And this they do under the religion Islam and in the Name of Allah (Arabic name for God)...isn't that reminiscent of the phrase "Thus saith the Lord"?

You my friend should respect the religious beliefs of others, Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) was a prophet of God sent to the people of Arabia.

It's only a matter of time when sects will rise up under the Christian religion, killing people as well and justifying such hideous acts with the citations you have offered here. It has already begun but not as intensified as what we have with the so called Islamic sects which the true Muslim faithfuls have rejected and condemned for what they truly are.

"Thou shalt not kill" is basic Truth (in the physical world), visible to the blind and audible even to the deaf, anyone who says the Lord commands you to kill has deviated from the Truth!

So my friend, first you tried to discredit me by saying, "I should read my Bible very well" and then when I cited more Scriptures, you dismissed me as delusional

No hard feelings, like I always say: the Truth is in your hands, study the scriptures.

Since your work is done on this thread (though you said for now ) then, once again it is with this question that I'll rest my case:

If you had a very good, justifiable reason, would you... kill me?

Remain blessed.. and Happy Sunday to you all.

Expressions

Let me get you clearly

You believe the scriptures but you don't believe the part that says "without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins". -Hebrews 9v22

You believe the scriptures but you don't believe the part that says "it please God to bruise Him and make His soul an offering for sin". -Isaiah 53v10

You believe the scripture but you don't believe the part that says "the Son of man MUST be lifted up like the serpent of Moses in the wilderness". -John 3v14

In order words, you believe the scriptures selectively. Or you don't believe these ones are scriptures.

I can also see that you believe Mohammed is a true prophet of God, sent by the true God.

Meaning you don't also believe the scriptures that imply Jesus is the ONLY WAY to the Father.

You don't believe these scriptures:

Acts 4v12 -Neither is there salvation in any other: for THERE IS NO OTHER NAME under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

1Timothy 2v5 -For there is one God,and ONE MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND MEN, the man CHRIST JESUS.

John 14v6 -Jesus saith unto him, I am the WAY, the truth and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, BUT BY ME.

Do you believe all these scriptures that say Jesus is the ONLY way to the Father, the ONLY mediator between God and man; and the ONLY one in whose name we have salvation? Or you don't believe them?

And about me killing you.

There can never be any justifiable reason for me to kill you (unless argumentatively in a case of self-defence). But your death and your blood can do nothing positive for me before God.

The only blood that can do anything for anyone is the sinless blood of the lamb of God -Jesus Christ. The blood that gave life to the new testament and was shed for the remission of sins.

So no, I will not kill you.

ayoku777:
And about me killing you.

There can never be any justifiable reason for me to kill you (unless argumentatively in a case of self-defence). But your death and your blood can do nothing positive for me before God.

So no, I will not kill you.

"There can never be any justifiable reason for me to kill you (unless argumentatively in a case of self-defence")

@underlined: so now you want to make "sense" without a corresponding biblical backup?

Matthew 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

"Thou shalt not kill one with a sinful blood".

I would be killed IF alas! someone else found my blood to be of "positive" use.

The point is there is a kill!

My Lord stated thus:

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

He affirmed that you who plot to kill Him are children of the devil.

It's obvious that something in you believes in consistency but you would not be able to address it: I'm not surprised, that's why it's called Dogma!

Until the inconsistencies become consistent, this stance remains:

Proverbs 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

For how can judgement (Divine Punishment/Woe) be pronounced on the individual, people and nation that fulfilled what pleased the Lord?

Regards.

Luke 22:48 "Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss?"

Judas couldn't stand the guilt and hanged himself.

While some persons saw in His (Jesus) death, the seriousness of the Truth and Faith Christ proclaimed, some other people with a sense of complacency, see in it a free ticket to live an easy life where anything goes as long as they are assured their sins have been washed since before they committed it.

The murders didn't end with Jesus:

Beginning with His Disciples, who experienced firsthand, the seriousness of the Faith and Truth their Master stood for, they also suffered greatly for their faith and in most cases met violent deaths on account of their bold witness.-
James was put to death by Herod Agrippa I in 44 AD, Paul was beheaded, Peter was crucified, upside down...

Life Application:
You see so called Christians who know for instance, that they are manufacturing/distributing fake/substandard drugs capable of killing, they know but wash off the guilty feeling with the words, "Lord forgive me" and then go ahead with the dastardly act. If admonished, they would even scoff and say "I'm not Jesus"... (God is not mocked). Same goes with our religious leaders, political leaders, corporate leaders etc... down to the individual.
But then you still find true Christians here and there who stand for the truth in their daily lives even at the risk of losing their lives, jobs (some resign instead). - think of the likes of Dora, Adadevoh... (you can add to the list).

Now, how about you reading this now? Is your confession of Christ only a mask, a hypocrisy, hiding from the view of men the fact that your heart has not changed but is still centered in covetousness, greed, the lusts of the flesh, and pride, hate? Are we only church-goers, outwardly confessing friends of Jesus, but strangers to what He came, lived (proclaimed) and died for?

Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Regards.

So much to learn... I have a few questions tho... Why does death have to come in to redeem man... why not some sorta sacrifice? Why suffering? Why pain?
What miracle is in Jesus's death... Like, does the life of a Heavenly being wash away sin? How does the death appease God... coz our forgiveness is in essence to appease God... I'll be glad if Essence and I'm sorry... The lady with numbers in her monicker without a denomination and other great people of God in here can help out... Bless!

Thomsyne:
So much to learn... I have a few questions tho... Why does death have to come in to redeem man... why not some sorta sacrifice? Why suffering? Why pain?
What miracle is in Jesus's death... Like, does the life of a Heavenly being wash away sin? How does the death appease God... coz our forgiveness is in essence to appease God... I'll be glad if Essence and I'm sorry... The lady with numbers in her monicker without a denomination and other great people of God in here can help out... Bless!

. I love your inquisitive mind to know more! #KUDOS#... Well, I'll try to explain few things to you, and I trust the Holy Spirit to enlighten you more on it. You see, the bible says, "There's no remission øƒ Sins without the shedding øƒ Blood"... That's why even in the days øƒ old i.e, the days øƒ Abraham, Isaac and the rests, they had to offer up blood øƒ Lambs and the likes to appease God ƒσя the remission øƒ their sins..the blood is used to wash away there sins.. its a covenant thing. Even the earthly gods desire it. #blood sacrifice is the greatest sacrifice øƒ all#. Now, consider, God offering His own blood as a human, who knew no sin, perfect in all things yet didn't accept that He was perfect..How much wonder His Holy blood would wrought. That's why, His Blood is the only remission ƒσя our sins, nothing else. His blood purged away, every øƒ God's anger towards our sins and every curses was imputed on Jesus' blood. No more condemnation to Us in Christ, curse no longer dwell in us. We've been purged and made clean, the moment we accept Jesus into our heart. And as long as we dwell in Him, there's everlasting cleansing øƒ sins ƒσя us and we are always made perfect and holy in Jesus before God. ...#TeamHeaven#

Expressions:
Don't beg the question. An objective answer or view is highly needed. If you have nothing to say then you are welcome to reflect upon it.

And if you must know I'm not an atheist. I'm a Christian.

If Christ truly did take away all the sins of man, how come we have sins of unspeakable proportions now?.

Shawl001:
. I love your inquisitive mind to know more! #KUDOS#... Well, I'll try to explain few things to you, and I trust the Holy Spirit to enlighten you more on it. You see, the bible says, "There's no remission øƒ Sins without the shedding øƒ Blood"... That's why even in the days øƒ old i.e, the days øƒ Abraham, Isaac and the rests, they had to offer up blood øƒ Lambs and the likes to appease God ƒσя the remission øƒ their sins..the blood is used to wash away there sins.. its a covenant thing. Even the earthly gods desire it. #blood sacrifice is the greatest sacrifice øƒ all#. Now, consider, God offering His own blood as a human, who knew no sin, perfect in all things yet didn't accept that He was perfect..How much wonder His Holy blood would wrought. That's why, His Blood is the only remission ƒσя our sins, nothing else. His blood purged away, every øƒ God's anger towards our sins and every curses was imputed on Jesus' blood. No more condemnation to Us in Christ, curse no longer dwell in us. We've been purged and made clean, the moment we accept Jesus into our heart. And as long as we dwell in Him, there's everlasting cleansing øƒ sins ƒσя us and we are always made perfect and holy in Jesus before God. ...#TeamHeaven#

Aii... Thanks bro... I digg

Expressions:
■According to the view generally held Christ is supposed, through His alleged expiatory death, to have vicariously taken upon Himself the burden of sins for men, to bring about a reconciliation thereby between God and men. It is striking that in the Revelation of John, which after all came into being and was proclaimed only after the death of Christ, and which contains all the important spiritual events, not a word is said about this taking over of sins. On the contrary, it is clearly stated that it is men who have washed their robes clean, and not Christ, which means that men had to wash off their sins themselves with the help of the Word, Whose Truth Christ sealed with His blood (Rev. 7, 14).
■ Indeed the Lamb of God Which was "slain" is accusingly spoken of several times in the Revelation. And even from the promised judgment of God alone, with the pouring out of the vials of Wrath, anything but a reconciliation between the Godhead and mankind is to be inferred.
■ But if Christ had taken upon Himself or taken away the evil works of men, what works are then referred to in God's judgment, which Christ Himself proclaimed? "For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man (whether Christians or non Christians) according to his works" (Matthew 16, 27); and in the Revelation of John the Son of Man promised: "I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be" (Rev. 22, 12).

1. Jesus Christ saved men from the curse of Sin aka Death but He never wiped away their sins as popular religious doctrines insist. Instead, Jesus Christ teaches that it is those who, upon being saved from death, then live their lives in continuous submission and obedience to His teachings and commandments, that comes to a Knowing of God's Truth and are then saved by God's Truth from slavery to sin - John 8 vs 31 - 36.

2. Jesus Christ was the Passover Lamb of God — Exodus 12 — and the lamb in question wasn't a sin offering of any kind but instead an offering whose blood was used to specially mark those who were set aside by God. In Egypt, the blood of the lamb marked those who were to be passed over by Death, God's judgment against Sin. In a similar manner, those marked by the blood of Jesus Christ are passed from Death — God's curse against all those in default of HIs Old Law — and passed on to Eternal life instead. Of course, eternal life may be salvation from Death but it also opens up the prospect of eternal damnation for those who refuse to pay off their sin debt after the reprieve granted them from Death.

3. Everyman will be rewarded according to his works — the sheep and the goats — Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46.

Skako:
Did the jesus tell u that he die for ur sin? Or paul
haaa i dey pity u (xtian)

Jesus did in fact die for the sins of the sinners of God's Old Covenant, this is in order that they, the sinners of the Old Law, could then, by Him, gain the opportunity to for themselves
* to stop doing bad things
* to stop sinning, to make people pure
* and to bring the goodness that continues forever

These opportunities were made available to the sinners of the Old Covenant as a result of Jesus Christ's sacrifice and offering, and as such, it is accurate to say that Jesus Christ died for the sins of the sinners of the Old.

If he truly took away the sins of the world why is their still corruption and wickedness in the world? The verse also is not about him taking away your individual sins as christians were lied to that he died for their sins. He is the lamb that will end wickedness, corruption and evil in the world and restore righteousness and peace in the world BUT this is in the future at endtime. He was killed unjustly back then. It was a pure murder. They re-wrote his story, created an impostor and told the world he died for their sins. When you kill a lawgiver whose laws you hate, you will surely change his laws and create another. Christians don't know that many things they preach were created by the vatican. Your sins remains yours till you repent. At the time of the messiah and after ppl still honour the passover. He didn't tell anyone he will die for their sins. He told them to repent and keep the commandments. The verse will be fulfilled in the future. He comes as a priest, the refiner, the BRANCH.

channelz:
Christ points out the way to redemption in His Word. He did not come to let Himself be put to death by men, and thereby, as it were, demand of them to transgress His Father's Commandment: "Thou shalt not kill!" That this death was not in the Will of His Father plainly follows from the Parable of the wicked husbandmen given by Christ(Matthew 21, 33-39) After the servants (teachers, prophets) whom the householder (God) sent to help the husbandmen (human beings) had been received by them with enmity and had even been killed, God sent His Son to men, assuming that they would reverence Him (Chapter 21, 37). But Him they also killed.

Did you even bother to read the OP before proceeding?

Ayoakinkahunsi:
■ I easily click on the reply button just to reply sharply but after I read the detail I was some how disturbed
well ,I will love to ask these question why will he come to the world and die if not because of our sin
■why will he say his blood speak than the blood of Abel
■ most of the time I myself is disturbed but we must not forget that though the secret of the lord is with them that fear him, the secret he choose to reveal and some things are better left than touch for our own good for so the philosophers of the past did and they ended up saying there is no God. the way of the lord are mysterious. I await responses anyway

1. Cursed and scattered by the Almighty for our refusal to obey His Old Law, YHWH, the Almighty sent us Jesus Christ to provide to us a path to redemption. The path does not force any decisions on us but gives us the opportunity to stop doing bad things, stop transgressing God's Law, make ourselves pure through continuous obedience of God's Truth to ultimately obtain eternal salvation.

2. You would have to specify where you got that from.

3. God said He would reveal those very same secrets to those who do as He commands. So why not do as He commands in order that those secrets remain secrets no more to you. Of what us is it to claim to believe in God yet refusing to do as He commands?