₦airaland Forum

nku5:
Shikena! The states are getting away with total incompetence while we are blaming a president because its more convenient than walking into your local govt council office to demand performance

kaboninc:
At the first bold part, here's something you would need to digest:
Source: https://www.nairaland.com/2153758/lack-capacity-prevent-corruption-nigeria
This quote was from the Minister and I believe to a large extent it has answered your questions on CORRUPTION.
However, I need to point out something here. When dealing with a problem that is cancerous in nature like corruption, you fight it with the intention of preventing future occurrence. This brings us back to the issue of getting to the root cause of a problem and fighting it from that level. That has been the focus of this administration. Note that your 'strategy' is a generic one as every Tom, Dick and Harry will say the same thing: you investigate, prosecute and convict.
Leaving out the question of 'how do you prevent future occurrence'!
I schooled in a university where the HOD of a particular department at one time said he knows the actual number of staff in that department and still tell you the number of staff receiving salaries and that number is more than the actual number of staff employed in that department. Obviously there are ghost workers. So question is how do you solve such a problem? For me if a system can be developed to capture the actual number of employee, that will be my first action. Secondly is to identify and prosecute those who aid this fraud by investigation.
But then, you would need to do a thorough investigation so you will have strong, quality and credible facts to back you. That should be your focus. That is the focus of this Government.
Note that you have never accepted the stride this government has made in battling the syndrome of GHOST WORKERS!
This is what I have to say about that:
http://www.ngrguardiannews.com/lead-story/197840-anxiety-as-govt-implements-oronsonye-panel-s-report
Read and digest.
Its one thing to say this government is not doing enough but its another thing to support a change that appears to be worse off. No matter how you try to paint your stand against the Lagos State Government, you indirectly support them. Read your own comments. Since you cannot comment on Rivers State, why don't you find out since your vote is most likely going to them.
Lastly, you indeed are not informed of government's progress. If you say you can get 'reports' from faraway US with the click of a button and you can't find any about our government, then you do yourself a great disservice. These reports actually exist. The day you begin to be truly unbiased, that day your opinions will become objective.
Yes, we'll meet at the polls.

kaboninc:
At the first bold part, here's something you would need to digest:
Source: https://www.nairaland.com/2153758/lack-capacity-prevent-corruption-nigeria
This quote was from the Minister and I believe to a large extent it has answered your questions on CORRUPTION.
However, I need to point out something here. When dealing with a problem that is cancerous in nature like corruption, you fight it with the intention of preventing future occurrence. This brings us back to the issue of getting to the root cause of a problem and fighting it from that level. That has been the focus of this administration. Note that your 'strategy' is a generic one as every Tom, Dick and Harry will say the same thing: you investigate, prosecute and convict.
Leaving out the question of 'how do you prevent future occurrence'!
I schooled in a university where the HOD of a particular department at one time said he knows the actual number of staff in that department and still tell you the number of staff receiving salaries and that number is more than the actual number of staff employed in that department. Obviously there are ghost workers. So question is how do you solve such a problem? For me if a system can be developed to capture the actual number of employee, that will be my first action. Secondly is to identify and prosecute those who aid this fraud by investigation.
But then, you would need to do a thorough investigation so you will have strong, quality and credible facts to back you. That should be your focus. That is the focus of this Government.
Note that you have never accepted the stride this government has made in battling the syndrome of GHOST WORKERS!
This is what I have to say about that:
http://www.ngrguardiannews.com/lead-story/197840-anxiety-as-govt-implements-oronsonye-panel-s-report
Read and digest.
Its one thing to say this government is not doing enough but its another thing to support a change that appears to be worse off. No matter how you try to paint your stand against the Lagos State Government, you indirectly support them. Read your own comments. Since you cannot comment on Rivers State, why don't you find out since your vote is most likely going to them.
Lastly, you indeed are not informed of government's progress. If you say you can get 'reports' from faraway US with the click of a button and you can't find any about our government, then you do yourself a great disservice. These reports actually exist. The day you begin to be truly unbiased, that day your opinions will become objective.
Yes, we'll meet at the polls.

df2006:
This is what I mean by keenly and objectively Observing!

Note the non- confronting ways of tackling corruption, using technology and systems?

Note the response to the orosanye report?

Note the PWC report on the wide spread false missing billions of dollars?

These are all facts, better authority than beer parlour gist.

yet we choose to believe the beer parlour gist because it enhances our benefits on the patronage that we get.

This is the plain truth that some of us chose to be blind to see.

@ Volvo S60 I respect your choice, but as far as I can see it won't move us any way forward.

Like I said, being confr-ontational will get you no where in the nigerian system.

Heck your choice only lasted 20 months and we were brought back worse than where he started from, and you chose to follow the same path?! Hmmmmm

Who are the new forms of patronage? Asari Dokubo? Tompolo? My brother you very well know, this are local champions, and wat is wrong with one getting some value of the resources in his back yard?

As long as he dos nt disturb Tunji in his cocoa farm or Sa'ad in his Gold mine!

Equity fairness and justice is all that all Nigerians I repeat All nigerians including minorities require

Not all this intellectual story we use in bamboo-zling most Nigerians.

I now come back to your abhor-rence of Gen Obj, I note all his des-picable acts you have stated above,

How is it now possible for me to align with his choice for Nigeria's next leadership? Impossible!

kaboninc:
At the first bold part, here's something you would need to digest:


Source: https://www.nairaland.com/2153758/lack-capacity-prevent-corruption-nigeria

This quote was from the Minister and I believe to a large extent it has answered your questions on CORRUPTION.

However, I need to point out something here. When dealing with a problem that is cancerous in nature like corruption, you fight it with the intention of preventing future occurrence. This brings us back to the issue of getting to the root cause of a problem and fighting it from that level. That has been the focus of this administration. Note that your 'strategy' is a generic one as every Tom, Dick and Harry will say the same thing: you investigate, prosecute and convict.

Leaving out the question of 'how do you prevent future occurrence'!

I schooled in a university where the HOD of a particular department at one time said he knows the actual number of staff in that department and still tell you the number of staff receiving salaries and that number is more than the actual number of staff employed in that department. Obviously there are ghost workers. So question is how do you solve such a problem? For me if a system can be developed to capture the actual number of employee, that will be my first action. Secondly is to identify and prosecute those who aid this fraud by investigation.

But then, you would need to do a thorough investigation so you will have strong, quality and credible facts to back you. That should be your focus. That is the focus of this Government.

Note that you have never accepted the stride this government has made in battling the syndrome of GHOST WORKERS!

kaboninc:
This is what I have to say about that:

http://www.ngrguardiannews.com/lead-story/197840-anxiety-as-govt-implements-oronsonye-panel-s-report

Read and digest.

kaboninc:
Its one thing to say this government is not doing enough but its another thing to support a change that appears to be worse off. No matter how you try to paint your stand against the Lagos State Government, you indirectly support them. Read your own comments. Since you cannot comment on Rivers State, why don't you find out since your vote is most likely going to them.

Lastly, you indeed are not informed of government's progress. If you say you can get 'reports' from faraway US with the click of a button and you can't find any about our government, then you do yourself a great disservice. These reports actually exist. The day you begin to be truly unbiased, that day your opinions will become objective.

Yes, we'll meet at the polls.

df2006:
This is what I mean by keenly and objectively Observing!

Note the non confronting ways of tackling corruption, using technology and systems?

Note the response to the orosanye report?

Note the PWC report on the wide spread false missing billions of dollars?

These are all facts, better authority than beer parlour gist.

yet we choose to believe the beer parlour gist because it enhances our benefits on the patronage that we get.

This is the plain truth that some of us chose to be blind to see.

@ Volvo S60 I respect your choice, but as far as I can see it won't move us any way forward.

Like I said, being confrontational will get you no where in the nigerian system.

Heck your choice only lasted 20 months and we were brought back worse than where he started from, and you chose to follow the same path?! Hmmmmm

Who are the new forms of patronage? Asari Dokubo? Tompolo? My brother you very well know, this are local champions, and wat is wrong with one getting some value of the resources in his back yard?

As long as he dos nt disturb Tunji in his cocoa farm or Sa'ad in his Gold mine!

Equity fairness and justice is all that all Nigerians I repeat All nigerians including minorities require

Not all this intellectual story we use in bambo-ozling most Nigerians.

I now come back to your abh-orrence of Gen Obj, I note all his despicable acts you have stated above,

How is it now possible for me to align with his choice for Nigeria's next leadership? Impossible!

anonimi:
The earlier WE hold our 36 state governors and 774 LGA chairmen accountable to us rather than wait for the federal government to make them accountable, the better for us all.

kaboninc:
When I put it to VolvoS60 on the sham going on in Rivers State, he claims not to know. Obviously, he's not interested.

kaboninc:
I do not want to even dig his Buhari. I just want him to explicitly mention his support for him. Then we would know who is indeed gullible or who really have Nigeria at heart.

They say GEJ is not fighting corruption. Yet he says he is eliminating Ghost workers. Still they even rubbish his effort. What more do they want? That he forcefully and unlawfully jails someone who the court will eventually set free?

I tire.

VolvoS60:
It is deeply cynical of you to present capacity/institution building and law enforcement as mutually exclusive options. IPPIS, the E-wallet system, flushing out ghost workers and the GIFMS are sensible, long overdue initiatives. But to pretend that these initiatives cannot proceed [b]alongside routine investigation, prosecution and conviction of offenders is nothing short of high level deceit.[/b] I ask you again: where is the deterrent? Countries with far more sophisticated institutional frameworks than Nigeria do have strict, severe penalties for malfeasance - penalties they do not hesitate to enforce when necessary. Is it that the governments in these countries are stuppid? Do you think you are talking to children here?

She said that 14 people were presently under trial for various pension scams in the country.

The minister said that the names of the persons found to be involved in the act had been sent to the ICPC for further action.

I had already seen the news on the link provided yesterday. The newsreport says that implementation of the federal government white paper 'has commenced'. However, the extent of implementation is still unclear to me. As far back as last year I began searching online for copies of the oronsaye report and the FG white paper to educate myself. So far my search has been unsuccessful. If you have access to the Report and the White Paper, let me know. It is very hard for Nigerians to adequately assess government policy when the only source of information is highly abridged newspaper articles. That is why the PwC Report and others should be made public!!

The Oronsaye Report is only one of the Reports I mentioned. What do you have to say of the others?

Don't be ridiculous. I never said I couldn't find any reports about our government. Don't misrepresent me. According to you, the reports exist. Fine. All I am saying is that I want easy access to copies of these reports for voter education. Am I asking too much?

On your other comments about the RVSG and the LASG - it is sad that your seige mentality is beginning to cloud this debate. You persistently drag in the Lagos and Rivers state governments and impute that I am a partisan supporter of these two. On what grounds? Sir, don't devalue this debate. If you want this thread to degenerate into a mudfight then let me know so that I can gracefully take my leave.

VolvoS60:
^^^^
You want to compel me to declare my support for Mr. Buhari even though I have not at any point on this thread endorsed him.

Interestingly, you didn't brand me an Albert, Galadinma, Salau, Okoye, Sonaiya, Okorie, Onovo, Ahmad or Anifowoshe-Kelani supporter.

This constant reference to Mr. Buhari is becoming tiresome. I have focused squarely on the reasons why I am angry and dissatisfied with the Jonathan administration and your response here is to tell me why Mr. Buhari is an unsuitable candidate?

VolvoS60:
And for this reason, he should go.

kaboninc:
I have just answered this question to you by providing a link of what the Minister said and YET you seem not to be satisfied?

Did you read anywhere in her statement in which she did state that routine investigation, prosecution and conviction of offenders is currently not ongoing? Let me quote again:

kaboninc:
If these statements do not answer your questions on government's effort in investigating, prosecuting and convicting of offenders, then indeed I may be talking to a child here. More so, since you claim to know, you should be aware of the challenges facing our judiciary. Remember the Pension Thief? How he paid the fine and walked away? The law actually provides for it. Now one begins to ask who makes such laws and why such laws will have such a provision even when the funds stolen is quite huge.

kaboninc:
In the US you've mentioned at one time, they have working systems, structures and processes in place to actually track and monitor activities of both government and private institutions. Sadly we do not. But this government is working towards it. In order to move forward, we learn from our past. During the sack and subsequent prosecution of bank chiefs by the EFCC and also the various ongoing trials by EFCC on former governors, one would have observed why plea bargain is usually preferred by both parties. It is not because the case cannot get to a conclusive stage, but the amount of resources especially time affects these cases.

There would always be thieves and criminals. But blocking loopholes will reduce and prevent these corrupt cases. This is the point I have been trying to sink into you. This is the focus of this administration.

kaboninc:
Like I've told you, should you need these reports, simply write to the relevant agency and request for a copy since you cannot rely on news articles. That should quell your quest for government activities.

On the PwC report, this link will help you with some unanswered questions.
https://www.oaugf.ng/78-highlights-of-investigative-forensic-audit-done-by-pwc


On government policies, am sure you know nothing about the National Automotive Industry Development Plan, the Roadmap for Power Sector Reform, National Industrial Revolution Plan, the Nigerian Sugar Master Plan, The National Housing Policy.

How about the Medium Term Expenditure Frameworks? All these are government policy documents that have been made public.


You see why I keep insisting you are being biased and subjective? You already have a perception and its appalling you continue to hold on to it for whatever reason that tickles you. I am debating you to let you know how misinformed you have been so you can do more research with an objective mindset.

VolvoS60:
^^^^
Indeed.

You principals have persisted in governing by speeches when cold, hard action is required. Nigerians do not want to hear what the minister said. They want to see lawbreakers pay for their actions, full stop. If your principals cannot make this happen then they should make way for those who can. You can argue this point until the cows come home. That is your choice. Enough said.





^^^^
You have answered nothing, my friend. The same old circular, convoluted logic. I'll give you an 'A' for persistence though - few people have the kind of dogged determination you have in calling black white. But I will call you out one time, every time.

You brought in the case of Mr. John Yakubu and Justice Talba's ruling in another brazen attempt at equivocation. Nice try. In yet one more example of your chicanery you conveniently forgot to add that the EFCC withdrew the initial 10 count charges against Yakubu (charges with a 14 year maximum sentence plus fine) and filed a three count charge (charges with a 2 year maximum sentence with or without the option of a fine). This is the result of plea bargaining (a concept which you extol in the rest of your post) between the EFCC and defence counsel - plea bargaining that eventually led to that miscarriage of justice in the Yakubu case. Read the EFCC statement after the ruling: “The commission is of the view that the option of fine runs contrary to the understanding between the prosecution and the defence wherein the convict consented to a custodial sentence with the forfeiture of all assets and money that are proceeds of the crime.”.

Even though the NJC eventually suspended Justice Talba for abuse of judicial discretion, is the EFCC saying it was unaware of the sentence for the 3 count charge filed against Mr. Yakubu? The EFCC knew Yakubu would walk. So what are we talking about here?





^^^^
What exactly is your point? Plea bargains are part of the GEJ administration's strategy of 'blocking loopholes and preventing corruption'?




^^^^
Pure, undiluted nonsense. Not worth a response from me.

The bottomline is that you have one vote and I have one too. We shall meet at the polls.

It has been a pleasure debating with you.

df2006:
@ Volvo S60


The last thing I would do is to try to absolve Dr Jonathan from all you have stated above.


But looking at the issues keenly and Objectively, I would say Nigerians have seen worse.


I am not a good writer so pls bear with me.


I would remind you that a C in C came out publicly to shout at a bereaved people that he wasn't suppose to be there consoling them, this was after a totally under maintained ammo dump went up in loud bangs maiming a large no of people and sending countless others into a swampy watery grave.


The current Ex C in C campaigning for office now, came out to not only tell us that we were indis-cipline, but said we were use-less, the same man wearing some funny attire, now smiling, begging for my vote.

This people did not, and never had any need for us until one man Jonathan came and made the electoral process more transparent and credible.

This alone is enough to ink my thumb for him.


Like the main article stated, Nigeria is a country of patronage, right from the elite to the dirt poor, and I am afraid it will remain so

Hence the do or die fight for elective posts,

Things that should normally happen in civilised society like sending corrupt people to jail, seldom happen here, this patronage system creates untouchables.

it is thru patronage that Nigeria still remains as one

And like the writer rightly said this means of patronage are slowly being dismantled, and privatised, which is causing the very much div-isive atmosphere now.

Our Combustible nation has made some of our leaders not be able to do the clearly right thing,
Because of our peculiar creation as a Nation.

When people say this is how it is done in the west, why can't we do same, I laugh, because we were not created like the west.

Rather than being confronting, Goodluck has been using institutions, technology, and systems to tackle patronage.

He has single handedly cause the most change howbeit, lackadaisically giving our peculiar nature without the country going up in smoke yet.

(Bh is also the result of the dearth of patronage.)

And for this reason almost every person who has benefited from that patronage is clearly on the other divide and against him, today shouting Change.

Cheers.

nku5:
I respect your opinion but I disagree with your submission.

My last paragraph should not weaken any critic of GEJ, I believe its necessary to draw a line. I am highlighting the failure that is Obj and asking for a crystal clear exposition of any scandal or case of theft in this administration an how they measure up to the cankerworm and beastly glory of Obj. Is that too much to ask? Regarding the PWC report I am sure an opposition that has no problem obtaining top secret letters between the CBN governor and the C in C should have no wahala using the FOI bill to get a copy if it will be of political value to them.

GEJ bashing is a national sport but let's extricate emotion from our analysis.

kaboninc:
Like I've told you, should you need these reports, simply write to the relevant agency and request for a copy since you cannot rely on news articles. That should quell your quest for government activities.

On the PwC report, this link will help you with some unanswered questions.
https://www.oaugf.ng/78-highlights-of-investigative-forensic-audit-done-by-pwc