₦airaland Forum

I totally agree with this submission!!
We understand why the army did it, but it does not excuse the moral questions it poses, as well as the criminality it encourages! Government must investigate and clean house, but should view reports in the context of the Nigerian situation. No collateral damage is right, no matter the extenuating circumstances, simply because no taking of human life is right!

Jbenue:
@ q
uid

LOOK AT THE BIGGER PICTURE.

What the army is doing is wrong and immoral, it can happened to you aswell. Indiscriminate killing is does not help in a situation like this, certainly it is the easier route to take but what will the long term consequences be for perpetrator and victim?

@ quid

Can I ask you why you want to stop BOKO HARAM?

Jbenue:
@ quid

Can I ask you why you want to stop BOKO HARAM?

Because they are a threat to national security in Nigeria.
Because they have killed 13,000 innocent people for nothing.
Besides it is an extremist terrorist organization with sinister plans for the future.

Hmmm

Jbenue:
@ quid

Can I ask you why you want to stop BOKO HARAM?

wonderful question

nawa o

quid:
Boko haram has killed over 13,000 innocent people.
The only thing I can think about is how to suppress boko haram permanently.
]

in life.. there is a theory known as the "butterfly effect"

The theory that everything that happens must happen; that you can't save one thing without destroying something else.

Boko Haram would surely come to an end in some month's time.

we are sure abt what happens to d arrmoury and artilleries recovered by the NA..

what happens to the shotguns, RPGs, hand guns and bullets, mines and bombs recovered by the Civilian JTFs?

u r saying they cant be stashed away, sold, or kept for selfish reasons later in the future?

all i am saying is.. Nigeria needs pessimistic views from folks like us to handle this matter of uprising and insurgence from any citizen ( either as a BH member or ordinary civilian), either small scale thievery, or brandishing of arms or a large scale onslaught by any citizen now or in future

kilokeys:
in life.. there is a theory known as the "butterfly effect"

The theory that everything that happens must happen; that you can't save one thing without destroying something else.

Boko Haram would surely come to an end in some month's time.

we are sure abt what happens to d arrmoury and artilleries recovered by the NA..

what happens to the shotguns, RPGs, hand guns and bullets, mines and bombs recovered by the Civilian JTFs?

u r saying they cant be stashed away, sold, or kept for selfish reasons later in the future?

all i am saying is.. Nigeria needs pessimistic views from folks like us to handle this matter of uprising and insurgence from any citizen ( either as a BH member or ordinary civilian), either small scale thievery, or brandishing of arms or a large scale onslaught by any citizen now or in future

Make boko harm end first.
We will worry about seized armaments later

tit:
nobody is going to support boko haram for any good reason.
if you are looking for an excuse to sympathize with boko haram, just say so.

You lack logical reasoning.
When fighting evil, care must be taken not to be come that evil you're fighting. Thats the greatest danger.
It is said that ...it's better for the guilty to escape than to kill an innocent person.
War also bring out the ugly side of us...just like money and power does.

kilokeys:
in life.. there is a theory known as the "butterfly effect"

The theory that everything that happens must happen; that you can't save one thing without destroying something else.

Boko Haram would surely come to an end in some month's time.

we are sure abt what happens to d arrmoury and artilleries recovered by the NA..

what happens to the shotguns, RPGs, hand guns and bullets, mines and bombs recovered by the Civilian JTFs?

u r saying they cant be stashed away, sold, or kept for selfish reasons later in the future?

all i am saying is.. Nigeria needs pessimistic views from folks like us to handle this matter of uprising and insurgence from any citizen ( either as a BH member or ordinary civilian), either small scale thievery, or brandishing of arms or a large scale onslaught by any citizen now or in future

are you saying that boko haram will make better use of the weapons than NA or civilian JTF?

It certainly does @tit!! I know that towns like Konduga and Bama are almost 100 percent Muslims! In fact, in Konduga, churches are not allowed!! This was more than 10 years before the full blown Boko Haram issue!

I remember being stoned during a polio immunisation exercise because a cleric told local folks that we were agents of the West armed with drugs to sterilise their male folk, and prevent future childbirth and consequently, advancement of their community!! In that time an age, I was amazed at the simplistic thinking and the sheer venom of hatred against anything seen as anti-islam! We even heard of parents murdering their own children over a religious infarction!!!

tit:
About 1960, the NE was 65% pagan, 30% Christian and 5% Muslim.
It looks like all that has changed now.
But I wonder if this plays a part in the civilian jtf targeted killings?

tit:
No.
NA just deal with BH terrorists by the book.
Our warriors should live by the warrior creed.
they should not descend to the level of barbaric jihadists.

Theres no dealing with boko haram by any book this time around. did they deal justly with their victims when they kidnapped and married off little helpless girls, when they bombed innocent people to pieces, beheading so-called infidels left, right and centre? This govt offered them amnesty, chose to dialogue with them but they threw the offer back to the govt's face and continue their wickedness. This govt was called 'weak' and 'clueless' on account of that. And now u want the NA to go by the book? Desperate times require desperate measures. They were threatening the unity and stability of this nation. Boko haram is going down and theres nothing anyone can do about it.

quid:
Because they are a threat to national security in Nigeria.
Because they have killed 13,000 innocent people for nothing.
Besides it is an extremist terrorist organization with sinister plans for the future.

So When you see "security" men abuse, extorting and killing citizens on a daily basis in you mind are they not a threat to nation security?
When you see civilians killing, extorting and tormenting other civilians are they not a threat to national security.

This wanton exercise in killing in the operation against BK only serves to entrench that sense of lawlessness among security forces and civilians alike. The message is clear Nigerian lives mean nothing. This is an equally ominous threat to national security.

ayindejimmy:
It is said that ...it's better for the guilty to escape than to kill an innocent person.

it is better to hang boko haram, after a fair trial, than to allow them to escape and kill innocent people.

Jbenue:
So When you see "security" men abuse, extorting and killing citizens on a daily basis in you mind are they not a threat to nation security?
When you see civilians killing, extorting and tormenting other civilians are they not a threat to national security.

This wanton exercise in killing in the operation against BK only serves to entrench that sense of lawlessness among security forces and civilians alike. The message is clear Nigerian lives mean nothing. This is an equally ominous threat to national security.

Translate this proverb: "anu gbaa ajo oso, a gbaa ya ajo egbe"

tit:
are you saying that boko haram will make better use of the weapons than NA or civilian JTF?

read again..

.... handle this matter of uprising and insurgence from any citizen ( either as a BH member or ordinary civilian), either small scale thievery, or brandishing of arms or a large scale onslaught by any citizen now or in future


that was my last paragraph..

quid:
Translate this proverb: "anu gbaa ajo oso, a gbaa ya ajo egbe"

I no sabi that language

internetpirate:
I made my statement as an unbiased onlooker, and you reduced it to a personal attack! Someone like you would probably do more harm if you were in the shoes of the military or JTF!! I merely highlighted what every rational mind knows! When Muslim fundamentalists urged on their brethren to all forms of evil in the north, no one talked of abuse and degradation of the human condition; yet, they inadvertently cast suspicion on innocents and it became hard to separate the goats from the sheep!

Tell me how you would find a Boko Haram infiltrator in the core Northeast where everyone views anything perceived as anti-islam as untenable, and regarded Boko Haram as a vanguard of Islam, ab initio?

It was only much later, when the attacks turned to the Muslim populace that people began to scream blue murder!

No one can justify brutality and war crimes (for indeed, these are war crimes!), but we must review issues in the context of reality and our own peculiar Nigerian environment! It is easy to accuse from behind laptops and phones, in the safety of our rooms! How would you have handled the situation without any collateral damage? Please enlighten me!!!

First, we Nigerians know our soldies . We see the way they act on the streets. The question is ...are our soldiers trained to minimise the incidents fr situations of collateral damage? An error is different from when something is deliberate.
This was what got us here in the first place ...when the police killed the leader of Bh and his in law without prosecution. Thats was how someone like Shekau was able to take power and have his way.

kilokeys:
read again..

.... handle this matter of uprising and insurgence from any citizen ( either as a BH member or ordinary civilian), either small scale thievery, or brandishing of arms or a large scale onslaught by any citizen now or in future


that was my last paragraph..

i still do not understand you.
you seem to imply doing nothing about boko haram,
leaving the towns and villages of the NE to the tender mercies of boko haram,
would be the best course of action.

are you obasanjo in disguise?

@Jbenue: welcome to the real world.

"A man who wishes to make a profession of goodness in everything must necessarily come to grief among so many who are not good. Therefore it is necessary for a ruler, who wishes to maintain himself, to learn how not to be good, and to use this knowledge and not use it, according to the necessity of the case" -- Niccolo Machiavelli

tit:
i still do not understand you.
you seem to imply doing nothing about boko haram,
leaving the towns and villages of the NE to the tender mercies of boko haram,
would be the best course of action.

are you obasanjo in disguise?

boko haram is almost over.. i am talking about the aftermath.


in some months BH would be over.. if my ideologies are ignored.. banks would be robbed with RPGs.. mines would be set on enemies farms, we would see armed robbers on highways and in communities as never before.

and who do u call when these crimes are to be tackled?
the Nigerian Police.
and to think the NP can withstand this new sect?

it would come full circle.

ayindejimmy:
First, we Nigerians know our soldies . We see the way they act on the streets. The question is ...are our soldiers trained to minimise the incidents fr situations of collateral damage? An error is different from when something is deliberate.
This was what got us here in the first place ...when the police killed the leader of Bh and his in law without prosecution. Thats was how someone like Shekau was able to take power and have his way.

Tell boko haram to explore civilized ways of tabling their grievances.
Murdering 13,000 people in cold blood will only invite heavy handedness from the army (whose duty it is to ensure security).
Welcome to the real world

Nig army o. Since they've started collecting N20- N50 on the road

this OP is so lame! I pray the law haunts you down and take you in for questioning.
-are you trying to say the military should be like a painter, carefully carving out piece of land where to perform?
- you've not even understood the power of an army, it's like a monkey playing in a power-house, it could get burnt and there will be nobody to blame.
- the pride of a nation is the military arms, hit one and you cause disaster, attack a soldier and you will be marked as a threat. you think the military job is police job that's why you upload rubbish online and expect people to follow your ways of thoughts. guy you are dull!deal with it.

shadowgwalker:
this OP is so lame! I pray the law haunts you down and take you in for questioning.
-are you trying to say the military should be like a painter, carefully carving out piece of land where to perform?
- you've not even understood the power of an army, it's like a monkey playing in a power-house, it could get burnt and there will be nobody to blame.
- the pride of a nation is the military arms, hit one and you cause disaster, attack a soldier and you will be marked as a threat. you think the military job is police job that's why you upload rubbish online and expect people to follow your ways of thoughts. guy you are dull!deal with it.

Congratulations who have successfully written an inane post well done. what are you on about army painter,

If this Army is the pride of the Nigerian nation then this nation has no pride.

ayindejimmy:
You lack logical reasoning.
When fighting evil, care must be taken not to be come that evil you're fighting. Thats the greatest danger.
It is said that ...it's better for the guilty to escape than to kill an innocent person.
War also bring out the ugly side of us...just like money and power does.

tell that to Obama.
who doesn't know that the fight against those rag boys are done in hostile zones?

if you are chasing hardened criminals as an officer(serious threats to a nation) and they run into caves or unfamiliar places what will you do if you were ordered on an assignment?will you keep on re-strategizing your next move and keep on flopping while the rebels win and cause more harm?

abeg, lives and properties, which is more important and which one is replaceable?

@ayindejimmy, what you just highlighted is an institutional error committed by our leaders (past to present)! Although the best trained armies have collateral damages, our institutions have failed to hold up the right values as the banners of democracy! So, in reality, the blame is not for the soldiers alone...or for this government alone! The government of today is certainly dealing with institutionalised brigandage, cruelty and utter regard for the right of citizens, even though my opinion is that they seem helpless and have achieved nothing in this regard! Even our politicians are bullies, exhibiting the same devil-may-care attitude!! It's a vicious circle, and strong leadership is needed to curb it's momentum!

ayindejimmy:
First, we Nigerians know our soldies . We see the way they act on the streets. The question is ...are our soldiers trained to minimise the incidents fr situations of collateral damage? An error is different from when something is deliberate.
This was what got us here in the first place ...when the police killed the leader of Bh and his in law without prosecution. Thats was how someone like Shekau was able to take power and have his way.

People like you are the reason why Nigeria is a Banana Republic! I am ashamed at your reasoning!

shadowgwalker:
this OP is so lame! I pray the law haunts you down and take you in for questioning.
-are you trying to say the military should be like a painter, carefully carving out piece of land where to perform?
- you've not even understood the power of an army, it's like a monkey playing in a power-house, it could get burnt and there will be nobody to blame.
- the pride of a nation is the military arms, hit one and you cause disaster, attack a soldier and you will be marked as a threat. you think the military job is police job that's why you upload rubbish online and expect people to follow your ways of thoughts. guy you are dull!deal with it.

Boko-Haram is definitely worse especially if GMB is in the picture.


Elect GEJ till 2019 to keep this mess in check.

quid:
@Jbenue: welcome to the real world.
"A man who wishes to make a profession of goodness in everything must necessarily come to grief among so many who are not good. Therefore it is necessary for a ruler, who wishes to maintain himself, to learn how not to be good, and to use this knowledge and not use it, according to the necessity of the case" -- Niccolo Machiavelli

Yes I know asked Eddard Stark. But what you are saying is extremely dangerous, you are in essence abdicating your right to life, well being and all round wholeness to the whim of an authority that might decide to infringe on the aforementioned based on circumstances and situations that are niether in your control nor involving you.

Correct me if I am wrong but was The Prince not ostensibly written for as the name alludes to a princely ruler or an oligarch in which an individual wields the power of life and death. We "run" a democracy here in which the lives of citizens are guaranteed if an organ of state such as the military cannot respect that then the whole bloody thing might aswell be jettisoned.

The school boy story brought tears to my eyes. This is just horrible. War indeed is something no one should pray for.

So sad.

Jbenue:
Yes I know asked Eddard Stark. But what you are saying is extremely dangerous, you are in essence abdicating your right to life, well being and all round wholeness to the whim of an authority that might decide to infringe on the aforementioned based on circumstances and situations that are niether in your control nor involving you.

Correct me if I am wrong but was The Prince not ostensibly written for as the name alludes to a princely ruler or an oligarch in which an individual wields the power of life and death. We "run" a democracy here in which the lives of citizens are guaranteed if an organ of state such as the military cannot respect that then the whole bloody thing might aswell be jettisoned.

It is not for nothing that I keep telling you: "welcome to the real world, very different from the imaginary world"]