Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? - Christianity Etc - Nairaland
Nairaland Forum › Nairaland General › Christianity Etc › Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? (3463 Views)
| Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by OLAADEGBU(op): 3:01pm On Apr 22, 2015 |
It is claimed that Paul says salvation is "by faith," but other Biblical writers imply works. Which is right? Do we contribute our works along with our faith for salvation? Is it even right to say that salvation is by faith? |
| Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by gatiano(m): 3:22pm On Apr 22, 2015 |
I saw a chocolate on a very high fridge, I am a baby of just 5 years old, I said to myself "when Daddy comes back, I'm going to make Him give me that chocolate" that i see but could not reach, or when someone else tall enough to reach it. And if Daddy or someone else taller refuses to give me the said chocolate, I will definitely grow up to be able to get it Myself, or Be able to get or buy Myself the chocolate. THIS IS WHAT IS CALLED FAITH. Second version is the same thing except that I did not see the chocolate. THIS IS CALLED BELIEVE. What if i used my initiative, get some stool or chairs together to get the chocolate Myself, THIS IS CALLED FAITH WITH WORK. It just depends only on My conscience whether I'm stealing the chocolate or I'm righteously consuming it. Afterall choco milo is for children. I did not see chocolate, but i guessed it there on the tall fridge, I decided to gather stools together to reach it and in the end there is no chocolate, It is either I continue my search, or I launch my big mouth into a loud cry. THIS IS CALLED BELIEVE WITH WORKING. PICK ONE! |
| Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by OLAADEGBU(op): 4:21pm On Apr 22, 2015 |
gatiano:Before you grow up to be able to get the chocolate wouldn't it have gone off by then? Everybody has faith but faith by itself will not cut it. What is your faith standing on? gatiano:Belief in God will not save you either. Do you know Him? Belief is like believing a parachute is able to save you from crash landing but of what use is your belief in the parachute if you are not going to put it on before a fall? gatiano:To please God you must get 100% in your works anything less will not cut it. gatiano:That is called blind faith and that will only lead you into the pits. Your faith must be based on solid evidence. What is that solid evidence that you are resting your faith on? |
| Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by channelz: 7:02pm On Apr 22, 2015 |
Faith alone without works isn't Faith but mere belief. |
| Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by OLAADEGBU(op): 8:24pm On Apr 22, 2015 |
channelz:Are you saying that the death of Christ was not enough to pay for the penalty of your sins and that you have to do some work in addition to his finished work on the cross? channelz:If your faith is evidenced upon your works then I'm afraid that you have fallen short. See Romans 3:23 channelz:Faith alone will not save you neither will your works. It is by grace we are saved through faith and not by our works of righteousness. See Ephesians 2:8. channelz:We are created as God's workmanship. Works are a product of the gift of eternal life not the cause of it. See Ephesians 2:10; Romans 6:23. |
| Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by Nobody: 8:53pm On Apr 22, 2015 |
OLAADEGBU:The only verse in the Bible where the words *faith* and *alone* are together is when James is saying that we are *not saved by faith alone.* |
| Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by An2elect2(f): 9:03pm On Apr 22, 2015 |
OLAADEGBU:Cosign. salvation by faith plus work is a false gospel from the pit of hell. |
| Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by Image123(m): 9:16pm On Apr 22, 2015 |
OLAADEGBU:my bro from the same Father. Well done sir. |
| Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by OLAADEGBU(op): 9:56pm On Apr 22, 2015 |
Papist:James was saying that your works are the evidence of your faith not the cause of it. |
| Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by OLAADEGBU(op): 9:58pm On Apr 22, 2015 |
An2elect2:What they are saying is that the finished work of Christ on the Cross in not enough for them, they feel that they need to complete the job since it is not finished. |
| Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by OLAADEGBU(op): 9:59pm On Apr 22, 2015 |
Image123:My brother from another mother. It is well in the well sir. ![]() |
| Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by OLAADEGBU(op): 10:17pm On Apr 22, 2015 |
OLAADEGBU:Suggested answers: Question: "Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works?"If am to add my own controversy I'll say that we are not saved by faith alone nor are we saved by the contribution of our works in addition. Does anyone dispute this? |
| Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by channelz: 10:43pm On Apr 22, 2015 |
OLAADEGBU:I like the way you dissected and analysed. Could do same for the below posts by way of more clarifications: |
| Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by channelz: 10:47pm On Apr 22, 2015*. Modified: 11:02pm On Apr 22, 2015 |
[b]James 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. |
| Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by OLAADEGBU(op): 10:50pm On Apr 22, 2015 |
channelz:See the suggested answers posted above your post. |
| Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by channelz: 10:52pm On Apr 22, 2015*. Modified: 9:28am On Apr 26, 2015 |
[b]Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. |
| Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by channelz: 10:57pm On Apr 22, 2015 |
OLAADEGBU:
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| Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by An2elect2(f): 11:37pm On Apr 22, 2015 |
OLAADEGBU:Exactly,but... sad. The "another gospel which is no gospel at all" has taken over Christendom. This grace plus works/merit has never, and will never save any man. It is either we are saved by God's sovereign grace or we are not. The false gospel of grace plus works only gives men a sense of control of their own salvation, and as a result, they believe they can lose the salvation or decide to walk out on God. Nothing can be farther from the truth. The crux of almost all heresies is the denial or rejection of the truth that salvation was earned through the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus once and for all. For ever. Believe that to be saved one must work, then you will believe you can throw away what you've worked for(salvation) and then other heresies upon heresies and then you must come to the conclusion that whether by word or by heart that Christ's death for "us" was not once and for all. And therefore, it is either he comes down to be sacrificed again and again like those bulls and calves of old or you meet God's perfect standards by yourself. |
| Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by johnw74: 3:38am On Apr 23, 2015 |
Our salvation is all thanks to God, we begin with seeking Him and He does the rest. Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: The Grace is from God our Faith is from God Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. But many boast that they are saved by their works, jw and others that must think they are mighty, and don't need the shed blood of the Saviour. Once saved God does works in us, Faith without works is dead. God does it all. First you seek God, not an angel or a wise man, but God. If a person says he is a Christian and he is not becoming a better person, perhaps slowly, but surely over time (Christ working in Him), then he either was not saved to begin with (perhaps he believed in an angel instead of in God), or by turning back to worldly ways, he has rejected his salvation. |
| Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by OLAADEGBU(op): 12:07pm On Apr 23, 2015 |
An2elect2:True depending on what you term as "works". Does repentance qualify as works in your vocabulary? An2elect2:Are you saying that a saved person is not able to walk out and decide to no longer continue in the faith? An2elect2:There is a condition for us to be saved. True repentance and faith in the above finished work of Christ is what will procure us this salvation. An2elect2:Depending on how you interpret Hebrews 6:4-6 |
| Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by OLAADEGBU(op): 12:19pm On Apr 23, 2015 |
johnw74:I agree to a large extent with your post. We are not saved by our faith/works. We are not even saved by faith. It is by grace we are saved through faith and this is a gift of God which we have not worked for. Our faith is in the finished work of Christ who died, was buried and rose on the third day. He said it is finished! Not to be completed by our works. All who received Him will be given the power to become the sons of God. |
| Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by An2elect2(f): 1:26pm On Apr 23, 2015*. Modified: 2:09pm On Apr 23, 2015 |
Well did i suspect that you will disagree with me somehow? yes i did. OLAADEGBU:No it doesn't. Repentance is not a mere confession of our sins to God but a complete change of mind. Where one turns from himself unto God. In other words, taking sides with God against yourself, the world and the devil. Repentance is a gift from God that accompanies regeneration. No man can change his mind or genuinely repent without divine intervention. "Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may you also do good that are accustomed to do evil" Jeremiah 13:23. If the Ethiopian can change his skin and the leopard his spots, then you can become good too. You can change from evil to good. That's what it says. And since they can't, you can't too. OLAADEGBU:To ask me this question, you have to ask what salvation is and how it comes about. A man is dead spiritually, all his thoughts are evil, his flesh is in perpetual enmity with God. He is blind that he cant see his wretched condition and deaf that he cant hear the saviour's call when he beckons. He is completely turned against God and wouldn't care a second for his soul. Why? cos he is dead. Dead to the things of God. When God looks at this man's nature, all he sees is total rebellion. If God decides to save this man, will he ask him for little merit/good knowing he has none to offer? NO. God will save this man from himself and change his heart for that is the only way that he can be new. But will this man still have his old nature/ his body of sin/ flesh? YES Can this flesh stop being in enmity with God? NO Is it not this flesh that tells men to rebel against God? YES Who can subdue this flesh? The Spirit of God dwelling in this man. Is God not aware of this rebellious nature long before hand? YES Will God abandon a man who cannot save himself or contribute little to his salvation along the way all because of this evil nature which He (God) is fully aware of? NO When God saves, He saves to the end! Salvation is God's work. It is the work of the saviour to save. Jonah 2:9 We come to accept God when God has accepted us. Not the other way round. John 1:12,13. vs 13 makes vs 12 come to pass. OLAADEGBU:salvation is by grace through faith( which is a gift too) The scripture says it comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Rom 10:17 Who gives faith? God Who gives repentance? Repentance unto life? The Almighty. These things happen simultaneously with regeneration. You don't produce faith by yourself or even repentance. It is God that gives so no man can boast before Him. OLAADEGBU:It is not dependent on how i interpret it. It is how scripture interprets itself. Those verses do not say a genuinely saved person can be lost. You can still be a goat and still taste what sheep eat but you remain a goat and what will befall goats will not miss you. |
| Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by channelz: 2:19pm On Apr 23, 2015 |
[b]Galatians 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. |
| Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by channelz: 3:04pm On Apr 23, 2015 |
[b]ON GRACE:Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? |
| Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by channelz: 3:09pm On Apr 23, 2015 |
[b]Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.IN CONCLUSION: |
| Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by OLAADEGBU(op): 11:49pm On Apr 24, 2015 |
An2elect2:You don't have to be suspicious, pray for the gift of discernment it will do you good in this life and the world to come. An2elect2:[/quote]You are right to an extent. I agree that repentance and faith are initiated by God. Faith comes by the continual hearing of the Word of God. The moment we receive the Word of God will meekness will be the time that it will save our souls. It is only then that the Spirit of God will convince, convict and then convert us. His salvation comes with a condition. We have to repent when He comes knocking. (See 2 Chronicles 7:14). It is only after then that He will forgive our sins and heal our land. An2elect2:God has accepted us all when He sent His only begotten Son to save the world. It is up to us to receive the gospel truth. How shall we receive and believe if we did not hear the gospel? It is an error to believe that you don't have a part to play in your salvation. Here is the part again as I quote 2 Chron 7:14 "If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land" Your part is to humble yourself and bend your opinion, will and language to that of God's. Pray and turn from your wicked ways. It is only after you've done this that God will forgive your sins. Don't be deceived into thinking that God will play your role for you and that your sins will be forgiven. It is a lie from the pit of hell! An2elect2:The verse I quote above is enough to tell us that we have to respond to His invitation by repentance and trust in our Lord Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit will play His part in convincing and convicting you but you still have to play your part in making up your mind to turn from your wicked ways before He can forgive your sins. An2elect2:If you discern the Scriptures you will find out how it interprets itself. Forcing the Scriptures to say what you want it to say mean will not cut it. |
| Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by OLAADEGBU(op): 5:40pm On Apr 25, 2015 |
OLAADEGBU:We are saved by grace through faith. |
| Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by paxonel(m): 7:41pm On Apr 25, 2015 |
the only unconditional love in religion which Jesus gave as a gift to man is taken away by those who says salvation is faith + works. if new testament is faith + works just like old testament was faith + works, then, there is no point calling ourselves christians. let us go back to Judaism |
| Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by OLAADEGBU(op): 11:21pm On May 04, 2015 |
Papist:If we are not saved by grace which is by faith alone, what else saves us? |
| Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by OLAADEGBU(op): 11:23pm On May 04, 2015 |
paxonel:Good point. ![]() |
| Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by Ubenedictus(m): 12:42am On May 05, 2015 |
I'll go straight to the point. On its own Faith does not have the power to save anyone. On it own works do not have the power to grant salvation either. Both of them were present in the old testament and if they were sufficient in themselves God wouldn't have ended the old testament and make a new covenant. The bible is very clear on what saves us. We are saved by grace, the operative principle of salvation for all men is the super abundant merits of Jesus which is applied unto us as grace, this is what sets the new testament apart. This grace is necessarily pre-conditioned by God upon Faith, so before one can recieve grace he must believe, it is by faith that we can please God and it is by faith that we get grace. On the other hand a faith standing alone is totally useless, what is the use of believing in God if we do not love him or hope in him?, infact when paul teaches about faith that saves he also teaches about a "obedience of faith", so true salvific faith must obey! This is why james state clearly that a faith standing alone is dead, it can't please God or even sustain a life of grace. So he who says he believes unto salvation must posses a faith that work in love, because faith without love is totally useless. So yeah in a nutshell I'll say I am saved by the mercy of God who gratuitiously applies the merits of Christ on me as grace and enables me to recieve this by a faith working in love. I don't have to merit salvation because Jesus already merited it for me, and even then I can only recieve it by faith which works in love. |
| Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by OLAADEGBU(op): 1:42pm On May 05, 2015 |
Ubenedictus:Fire on. ![]() Ubenedictus:Are we then saved by both? ![]() Ubenedictus:Was Abraham saved? Ubenedictus:Granted that it is by grace we are saved through faith but the proud who insists on adding his works to the finished work of Christ to be saved cannot receive the grace of God. The law is for the proud and grace for the humble. God resists the proud. Ubenedictus:Are you saying that we have to obey His laws before we can receive His grace? Ubenedictus:Does your working in love precede your faith in Christ or is a condition for getting saved? |
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