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Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? - Religion - Nairaland

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Is Salvation By Faith Alone, Or By Faith Plus Works? / Are We Saved By Faith Or By Water Baptism? / Grace Without Works Is Dead! (2) (3) (4)

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Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by OLAADEGBU(m): 3:01pm On Apr 22, 2015
It is claimed that Paul says salvation is "by faith," but other Biblical writers imply works. Which is right? Do we contribute our works along with our faith for salvation? Is it even right to say that salvation is by faith?
Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by gatiano(m): 3:22pm On Apr 22, 2015
I saw a chocolate on a very high fridge, I am a baby of just 5 years old, I said to myself "when Daddy comes back, I'm going to make Him give me that chocolate" that i see but could not reach, or when someone else tall enough to reach it.
And if Daddy or someone else taller refuses to give me the said chocolate, I will definitely grow up to be able to get it Myself, or Be able to get or buy Myself the chocolate. THIS IS WHAT IS CALLED FAITH.

Second version is the same thing except that I did not see the chocolate. THIS IS CALLED BELIEVE.

What if i used my initiative, get some stool or chairs together to get the chocolate Myself, THIS IS CALLED FAITH WITH WORK. It just depends only on My conscience whether I'm stealing the chocolate or I'm righteously consuming it. Afterall choco milo is for children.

I did not see chocolate, but i guessed it there on the tall fridge, I decided to gather stools together to reach it and in the end there is no chocolate, It is either I continue my search, or I launch my big mouth into a loud cry. THIS IS CALLED BELIEVE WITH WORKING.

PICK ONE!
Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by OLAADEGBU(m): 4:21pm On Apr 22, 2015
gatiano:


I saw a chocolate on a very high fridge, I am a baby of just 5 years old, I said to myself "when Daddy comes back, I'm going to make Him give me that chocolate" that i see but could not reach, or when someone else tall enough to reach it.
And if Daddy or someone else taller refuses to give me the said chocolate, I will definitely grow up to be able to get it Myself, or Be able to get or buy Myself the chocolate. THIS IS WHAT IS CALLED FAITH.

Before you grow up to be able to get the chocolate wouldn't it have gone off by then? Everybody has faith but faith by itself will not cut it. What is your faith standing on?

gatiano:


Second version is the same thing except that I did not see the chocolate. THIS IS CALLED BELIEVE.

Belief in God will not save you either. Do you know Him? Belief is like believing a parachute is able to save you from crash landing but of what use is your belief in the parachute if you are not going to put it on before a fall?

gatiano:


What if i used my initiative, get some stool or chairs together to get the chocolate Myself, THIS IS CALLED FAITH WITH WORK. It just depends only on My conscience whether I'm stealing the chocolate or I'm righteously consuming it. Afterall choco milo is for children.

To please God you must get 100% in your works anything less will not cut it.

gatiano:


I did not see chocolate, but i guessed it there on the tall fridge, I decided to gather stools together to reach it and in the end there is no chocolate, It is either I continue my search, or I launch my big mouth into a loud cry. THIS IS CALLED BELIEVE WITH WORKING.

PICK ONE!

That is called blind faith and that will only lead you into the pits. Your faith must be based on solid evidence. What is that solid evidence that you are resting your faith on?
Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by channelz: 7:02pm On Apr 22, 2015
Faith alone without works isn't Faith but mere belief.

True Faith is evidenced upon Works.

Therefore, Salvation is by Faith( +works) and not mere believe.

James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.



NB: Killing for a religion isn't a 'work' of Faith but a counter outworking resulting from "blind faith"
Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by OLAADEGBU(m): 8:24pm On Apr 22, 2015
channelz:


Faith alone without works isn't Faith but mere belief.

Are you saying that the death of Christ was not enough to pay for the penalty of your sins and that you have to do some work in addition to his finished work on the cross?

channelz:


True Faith is evidenced upon Works.

If your faith is evidenced upon your works then I'm afraid that you have fallen short. See Romans 3:23

channelz:


Therefore, Salvation is by Faith( +works) and not mere believe.

James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Faith alone will not save you neither will your works. It is by grace we are saved through faith and not by our works of righteousness. See Ephesians 2:8.

channelz:


NB: Killing for a religion isn't a 'work' of Faith but a counter outworking resulting from "blind faith"

We are created as God's workmanship. Works are a product of the gift of eternal life not the cause of it. See Ephesians 2:10; Romans 6:23.

1 Like

Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by Nobody: 8:53pm On Apr 22, 2015
OLAADEGBU:


Are you saying that the death of Christ was not enough to pay for the penalty of your sins and that you have to do some work in addition to his finished work on the cross?



If your faith is evidenced upon your works then I'm afraid that you have fallen short. See Romans 3:23



Faith alone will not save you neither will your works. It is by grace we are saved through faith and not by our works of righteousness. See Ephesians 2:8.



We are created as God's workmanship. Works are a product of the gift of eternal life not the cause of it. See Ephesians 2:10; Romans 6:23.
The only verse in the Bible where the words *faith* and *alone* are together is when James is saying that we are *not saved by faith alone.*

1 Like

Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by An2elect2(f): 9:03pm On Apr 22, 2015
OLAADEGBU:


Are you saying that the death of Christ was not enough to pay for the penalty of your sins and that you have to do some work in addition to his finished work on the cross?



If your faith is evidenced upon your works then I'm afraid that you have fallen short. See Romans 3:23



Faith alone will not save you neither will your works. It is by grace we are saved through faith and not by our works of righteousness. See Ephesians 2:8.



We are created as God's workmanship. Works are a product of the gift of eternal life not the cause of it. See Ephesians 2:10; Romans 6:23.
Cosign.

salvation by faith plus work is a false gospel from the pit of hell.
Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by Image123(m): 9:16pm On Apr 22, 2015
OLAADEGBU:
It is claimed that Paul says salvation is "by faith," but other Biblical writers imply works. Which is right? Do we contribute our works along with our faith for salvation? Is it even right to say that salvation is by faith?

my bro from the same Father. Well done sir.

1 Like

Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by OLAADEGBU(m): 9:56pm On Apr 22, 2015
Papist:


The only verse in the Bible where the words *faith* and *alone* are together is when James is saying that we are *not saved by faith alone.*

James was saying that your works are the evidence of your faith not the cause of it.

1 Like

Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by OLAADEGBU(m): 9:58pm On Apr 22, 2015
An2elect2:

Cosign.

salvation by faith plus work is a false gospel from the pit of hell.

What they are saying is that the finished work of Christ on the Cross in not enough for them, they feel that they need to complete the job since it is not finished.
Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by OLAADEGBU(m): 9:59pm On Apr 22, 2015
Image123:


my bro from the same Father. Well done sir.

My brother from another mother. It is well in the well sir. cheesy
Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by OLAADEGBU(m): 10:17pm On Apr 22, 2015
OLAADEGBU:


It is claimed that Paul says salvation is "by faith," but other Biblical writers imply works. Which is right? Do we contribute our works along with our faith for salvation? Is it even right to say that salvation is by faith?

Suggested answers:

Question: "Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works?"

Answer: This is perhaps the most important question in all of Christian theology. This question is the cause of the Reformation, the split between the Protestant churches and Catholic Church. This question is a key difference between biblical Christianity and most of the “Christian” cults. Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works? Am I saved just by believing in Jesus, or do I have to believe in Jesus and do certain things?

The question of faith alone or faith plus works is made difficult by some hard-to-reconcile Bible passages. Compare Romans 3:28, 5:1 and Galatians 3:24 with James 2:24. Some see a difference between Paul (salvation is by faith alone) and James (salvation is by faith plus works). Paul dogmatically says that justification is by faith alone (Ephesians 2:8-9), while James appears to be saying that justification is by faith plus works. This apparent problem is answered by examining what exactly James is talking about. James is refuting the belief that a person can have faith without producing any good works (James 2:17-18). James is emphasizing the point that genuine faith in Christ will produce a changed life and good works (James 2:20-26). James is not saying that justification is by faith plus works, but rather that a person who is truly justified by faith will have good works in his/her life. If a person claims to be a believer, but has no good works in his/her life, then he/she likely does not have genuine faith in Christ (James 2:14, 17, 20, 26).

Paul says the same thing in his writings. The good fruit believers should have in their lives is listed in Galatians 5:22-23. Immediately after telling us that we are saved by faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8-9), Paul informs us that we were created to do good works (Ephesians 2:10). Paul expects just as much of a changed life as James does: “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come” (2 Corinthians 5:17). James and Paul do not disagree in their teaching regarding salvation. They approach the same subject from different perspectives. Paul simply emphasized that justification is by faith alone while James put emphasis on the fact that genuine faith in Christ produces good works.

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/salvation-faith-alone.html#ixzz3Y4byn5c4

If am to add my own controversy I'll say that we are not saved by faith alone nor are we saved by the contribution of our works in addition. Does anyone dispute this?
Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by channelz: 10:43pm On Apr 22, 2015
OLAADEGBU:


Are you saying that the death of Christ was not enough to pay for the penalty of your sins and that you have to do some work in addition to his finished work on the cross?



If your faith is evidenced upon your works then I'm afraid that you have fallen short. See Romans 3:23



Faith alone will not save you neither will your works. It is by grace we are saved through faith and not by our works of righteousness. See Ephesians 2:8.



We are created as God's workmanship. Works are a product of the gift of eternal life not the cause of it. See Ephesians 2:10; Romans 6:23.
I like the way you dissected and analysed. Could do same for the below posts by way of more clarifications:
Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by channelz: 10:47pm On Apr 22, 2015
[b]
James 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

2:2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;

2:3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:

2:4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?

2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

2:6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?

2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?

2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Matthew 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
[/b]
Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by OLAADEGBU(m): 10:50pm On Apr 22, 2015
channelz:


I like the way you dissected and analysed. Could do same for the below posts by way of more clarifications:

See the suggested answers posted above your post.
Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by channelz: 10:52pm On Apr 22, 2015
[b]
Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;

5:24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.


7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
ETCETERA.
[/b]
Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by channelz: 10:57pm On Apr 22, 2015
OLAADEGBU:


See the suggested answers posted above your post.

Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by An2elect2(f): 11:37pm On Apr 22, 2015
OLAADEGBU:


What they are saying is that the finished work of Christ on the Cross in not enough for them, they feel that they need to complete the job since it is not finished.
Exactly,but...

sad. The "another gospel which is no gospel at all" has taken over Christendom. This grace plus works/merit has never, and will never save any man. It is either we are saved by God's sovereign grace or we are not.

The false gospel of grace plus works only gives men a sense of control of their own salvation, and as a result, they believe they can lose the salvation or decide to walk out on God. Nothing can be farther from the truth.

The crux of almost all heresies is the denial or rejection of the truth that salvation was earned through the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus once and for all. For ever.

Believe that to be saved one must work, then you will believe you can throw away what you've worked for(salvation) and then other heresies upon heresies and then you must come to the conclusion that whether by word or by heart that Christ's death for "us" was not once and for all. And therefore, it is either he comes down to be sacrificed again and again like those bulls and calves of old or you meet God's perfect standards by yourself.

1 Like

Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by johnw74: 3:38am On Apr 23, 2015
Our salvation is all thanks to God, we begin with seeking Him and He does the rest.

Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

The Grace is from God
our Faith is from God

Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
But many boast that they are saved by their works, jw and others that must think they are mighty, and don't need the shed blood of the Saviour.

Once saved God does works in us, Faith without works is dead.
God does it all.

First you seek God, not an angel or a wise man, but God.



If a person says he is a Christian and he is not becoming a better person, perhaps slowly, but surely over time (Christ working in Him),
then he either was not saved to begin with (perhaps he believed in an angel instead of in God),
or by turning back to worldly ways, he has rejected his salvation.
Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by OLAADEGBU(m): 12:07pm On Apr 23, 2015
An2elect2:


Exactly,but...

sad. The "another gospel which is no gospel at all" has taken over Christendom. This grace plus works/merit has never, and will never save any man. It is either we are saved by God's sovereign grace or we are not.

True depending on what you term as "works". Does repentance qualify as works in your vocabulary?

An2elect2:


The false gospel of grace plus works only gives men a sense of control of their own salvation, and as a result, they believe they can lose the salvation or decide to walk out on God. Nothing can be farther from the truth.

Are you saying that a saved person is not able to walk out and decide to no longer continue in the faith?

An2elect2:


The crux of almost all heresies is the denial or rejection of the truth that salvation was earned through the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus once and for all. For ever.

There is a condition for us to be saved. True repentance and faith in the above finished work of Christ is what will procure us this salvation.

An2elect2:


Believe that to be saved one must work, then you will believe you can throw away what you've worked for(salvation) and then other heresies upon heresies and then you must come to the conclusion that whether by word or by heart that Christ's death for "us" was not once and for all. And therefore, it is either he comes down to be sacrificed again and again like those bulls and calves of old or you meet God's perfect standards by yourself.

Depending on how you interpret Hebrews 6:4-6
Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by OLAADEGBU(m): 12:19pm On Apr 23, 2015
johnw74:


Our salvation is all thanks to God, we begin with seeking Him and He does the rest.

Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

The Grace is from God
our Faith is from God

Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
But many boast that they are saved by their works, jw and others that must think they are mighty, and don't need the shed blood of the Saviour.

Once saved God does works in us, Faith without works is dead.
God does it all.

First you seek God, not an angel or a wise man, but God.



If a person says he is a Christian and he is not becoming a better person, perhaps slowly, but surely over time (Christ working in Him),
then he either was not saved to begin with (perhaps he believed in an angel instead of in God),
or by turning back to worldly ways, he has rejected his salvation.

I agree to a large extent with your post. We are not saved by our faith/works. We are not even saved by faith. It is by grace we are saved through faith and this is a gift of God which we have not worked for. Our faith is in the finished work of Christ who died, was buried and rose on the third day. He said it is finished! Not to be completed by our works. All who received Him will be given the power to become the sons of God.

1 Like

Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by An2elect2(f): 1:26pm On Apr 23, 2015
Well did i suspect that you will disagree with me somehow? yes i did.

OLAADEGBU:


True depending on what you term as "works". Does repentance qualify as works in your vocabulary?
No it doesn't. Repentance is not a mere confession of our sins to God but a complete change of mind. Where one turns from himself unto God. In other words, taking sides with God against yourself, the world and the devil.

Repentance is a gift from God that accompanies regeneration. No man can change his mind or genuinely repent without divine intervention.

"Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may you also do good that are accustomed to do evil" Jeremiah 13:23.

If the Ethiopian can change his skin and the leopard his spots, then you can become good too. You can change from evil to good. That's what it says. And since they can't, you can't too.

OLAADEGBU:


Are you saying that a saved person is not able to walk out and decide to no longer continue in the faith?

To ask me this question, you have to ask what salvation is and how it comes about.
A man is dead spiritually, all his thoughts are evil, his flesh is in perpetual enmity with God. He is blind that he cant see his wretched condition and deaf that he cant hear the saviour's call when he beckons. He is completely turned against God and wouldn't care a second for his soul. Why? cos he is dead. Dead to the things of God. When God looks at this man's nature, all he sees is total rebellion. If God decides to save this man, will he ask him for little merit/good knowing he has none to offer? NO. God will save this man from himself and change his heart for that is the only way that he can be new. But will this man still have his old nature/ his body of sin/ flesh? YES Can this flesh stop being in enmity with God? NO Is it not this flesh that tells men to rebel against God? YES Who can subdue this flesh? The Spirit of God dwelling in this man. Is God not aware of this rebellious nature long before hand? YES Will God abandon a man who cannot save himself or contribute little to his salvation along the way all because of this evil nature which He (God) is fully aware of? NO When God saves, He saves to the end!

Salvation is God's work. It is the work of the saviour to save. Jonah 2:9

We come to accept God when God has accepted us. Not the other way round. John 1:12,13. vs 13 makes vs 12 come to pass.

OLAADEGBU:


There is a condition for us to be saved. True repentance and faith in the above finished work of Christ is what will procure us this salvation.

salvation is by grace through faith( which is a gift too) The scripture says it comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Rom 10:17

Who gives faith? God
Who gives repentance? Repentance unto life? The Almighty.
These things happen simultaneously with regeneration.
You don't produce faith by yourself or even repentance. It is God that gives so no man can boast before Him.


OLAADEGBU:

Depending on how you interpret Hebrews 6:4-6

It is not dependent on how i interpret it. It is how scripture interprets itself. Those verses do not say a genuinely saved person can be lost. You can still be a goat and still taste what sheep eat but you remain a goat and what will befall goats will not miss you.
Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by channelz: 2:19pm On Apr 23, 2015
[b]Galatians 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

6:3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.

6:4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.

6:5 For every man shall bear his own burden.

6:6 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.

6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

6:10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

6:11 Ye see how large a letter I have written unto you with mine own hand.

6:12 As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.

6:13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.

6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

6:17 From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus.

6:18 Brethren, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen.

Proverbs 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.[/b]
Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by channelz: 3:04pm On Apr 23, 2015
[b]ON GRACE:

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.[/b]
Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by channelz: 3:09pm On Apr 23, 2015
[b]Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;

2:19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

2:24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.

2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

2:28 And I will give him the morning star.

2:29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

IN CONCLUSION:

Isaiah 8:10 Take counsel together, and it shall come to nought; speak the word, and it shall not stand: for God is with us.

8:11 For the LORD spake thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying,

Matthew 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ[/b].
Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by OLAADEGBU(m): 11:49pm On Apr 24, 2015
An2elect2:


Well did i suspect that you will disagree with me somehow? yes i did.

You don't have to be suspicious, pray for the gift of discernment it will do you good in this life and the world to come.

An2elect2:


No it doesn't. Repentance is not a mere confession of our sins to God but a complete change of mind. Where one turns from himself unto God. In other words, taking sides with God against yourself, the world and the devil.

Repentance is a gift from God that accompanies regeneration. No man can change his mind or genuinely repent without divine intervention.

"Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may you also do good that are accustomed to do evil" Jeremiah 13:23.

If the Ethiopian can change his skin and the leopard his spots, then you can become good too. You can change from evil to good. That's what it says. And since they can't, you can't too.

To ask me this question, you have to ask what salvation is and how it comes about.
A man is dead spiritually, all his thoughts are evil, his flesh is in perpetual enmity with God. He is blind that he cant see his wretched condition and deaf that he cant hear the saviour's call when he beckons. He is completely turned against God and wouldn't care a second for his soul. Why? cos he is dead. Dead to the things of God. When God looks at this man's nature, all he sees is total rebellion. If God decides to save this man, will he ask him for little merit/good knowing he has none to offer? NO. God will save this man from himself and change his heart for that is the only way that he can be new. But will this man still have his old nature/ his body of sin/ flesh? YES Can this flesh stop being in enmity with God? NO Is it not this flesh that tells men to rebel against God? YES Who can subdue this flesh? The Spirit of God dwelling in this man. Is God not aware of this rebellious nature long before hand? YES Will God abandon a man who cannot save himself or contribute little to his salvation along the way all because of this evil nature which He (God) is fully aware of? NO When God saves, He saves to the end!

Salvation is God's work. It is the work of the saviour to save. Jonah 2:9

[/quote]

You are right to an extent. I agree that repentance and faith are initiated by God. Faith comes by the continual hearing of the Word of God. The moment we receive the Word of God will meekness will be the time that it will save our souls. It is only then that the Spirit of God will convince, convict and then convert us. His salvation comes with a condition. We have to repent when He comes knocking. (See 2 Chronicles 7:14). It is only after then that He will forgive our sins and heal our land.

An2elect2:


We come to accept God when God has accepted us. Not the other way round. John 1:12,13. vs 13 makes vs 12 come to pass.

God has accepted us all when He sent His only begotten Son to save the world. It is up to us to receive the gospel truth. How shall we receive and believe if we did not hear the gospel? It is an error to believe that you don't have a part to play in your salvation. Here is the part again as I quote 2 Chron 7:14

"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land"

Your part is to humble yourself and bend your opinion, will and language to that of God's. Pray and turn from your wicked ways. It is only after you've done this that God will forgive your sins. Don't be deceived into thinking that God will play your role for you and that your sins will be forgiven. It is a lie from the pit of hell!

An2elect2:


salvation is by grace through faith( which is a gift too) The scripture says it comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Rom 10:17

Who gives faith? God
Who gives repentance? Repentance unto life? The Almighty.
These things happen simultaneously with regeneration.
You don't produce faith by yourself or even repentance. It is God that gives so no man can boast before Him.

The verse I quote above is enough to tell us that we have to respond to His invitation by repentance and trust in our Lord Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit will play His part in convincing and convicting you but you still have to play your part in making up your mind to turn from your wicked ways before He can forgive your sins.

An2elect2:


It is not dependent on how i interpret it. It is how scripture interprets itself. Those verses do not say a genuinely saved person can be lost. You can still be a goat and still taste what sheep eat but you remain a goat and what will befall goats will not miss you.

If you discern the Scriptures you will find out how it interprets itself. Forcing the Scriptures to say what you want it to say mean will not cut it.
Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by OLAADEGBU(m): 5:40pm On Apr 25, 2015
OLAADEGBU:


It is claimed that Paul says salvation is "by faith," but other Biblical writers imply works. Which is right? Do we contribute our works along with our faith for salvation? Is it even right to say that salvation is by faith?

We are saved by grace through faith.
Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by paxonel(m): 7:41pm On Apr 25, 2015
the only unconditional love in religion which Jesus gave as a gift to man is taken away by those who says salvation is faith + works.
if new testament is faith + works just like old testament was faith + works, then, there is no point calling ourselves christians.
let us go back to Judaism

1 Like

Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by OLAADEGBU(m): 11:21pm On May 04, 2015
Papist:


The only verse in the Bible where the words *faith* and *alone* are together is when James is saying that we are *not saved by faith alone.*

If we are not saved by grace which is by faith alone, what else saves us?
Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by OLAADEGBU(m): 11:23pm On May 04, 2015
paxonel:


the only unconditional love in religion which Jesus gave as a gift to man is taken away by those who says salvation is faith + works.
if new testament is faith + works just like old testament was faith + works, then, there is no point calling ourselves christians.
let us go back to Judaism

Good point. smiley
Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by Ubenedictus(m): 12:42am On May 05, 2015
I'll go straight to the point.

On its own Faith does not have the power to save anyone.

On it own works do not have the power to grant salvation either.

Both of them were present in the old testament and if they were sufficient in themselves God wouldn't have ended the old testament and make a new covenant.

The bible is very clear on what saves us.

We are saved by grace, the operative principle of salvation for all men is the super abundant merits of Jesus which is applied unto us as grace, this is what sets the new testament apart.

This grace is necessarily pre-conditioned by God upon Faith, so before one can recieve grace he must believe, it is by faith that we can please God and it is by faith that we get grace.

On the other hand a faith standing alone is totally useless, what is the use of believing in God if we do not love him or hope in him?, infact when paul teaches about faith that saves he also teaches about a "obedience of faith", so true salvific faith must obey! This is why james state clearly that a faith standing alone is dead, it can't please God or even sustain a life of grace. So he who says he believes unto salvation must posses a faith that work in love, because faith without love is totally useless.

So yeah in a nutshell I'll say I am saved by the mercy of God who gratuitiously applies the merits of Christ on me as grace and enables me to recieve this by a faith working in love.

I don't have to merit salvation because Jesus already merited it for me, and even then I can only recieve it by faith which works in love.
Re: Is Salvation By Faith Alone Or By Faith Plus Works, Is It Even By Faith At All? by OLAADEGBU(m): 1:42pm On May 05, 2015
Ubenedictus:


I'll go straight to the point.

Fire on. cheesy

Ubenedictus:


On its own Faith does not have the power to save anyone.

On it own works do not have the power to grant salvation either.

Are we then saved by both? undecided

Ubenedictus:


Both of them were present in the old testament and if they were sufficient in themselves God wouldn't have ended the old testament and make a new covenant.

Was Abraham saved?

Ubenedictus:


The bible is very clear on what saves us.

We are saved by grace, the operative principle of salvation for all men is the super abundant merits of Jesus which is applied unto us as grace, this is what sets the new testament apart.

This grace is necessarily pre-conditioned by God upon Faith, so before one can recieve grace he must believe, it is by faith that we can please God and it is by faith that we get grace.

Granted that it is by grace we are saved through faith but the proud who insists on adding his works to the finished work of Christ to be saved cannot receive the grace of God. The law is for the proud and grace for the humble. God resists the proud.

Ubenedictus:


On the other hand a faith standing alone is totally useless, what is the use of believing in God if we do not love him or hope in him?, infact when paul teaches about faith that saves he also teaches about a "obedience of faith", so true salvific faith must obey! This is why james state clearly that a faith standing alone is dead, it can't please God or even sustain a life of grace. So he who says he believes unto salvation must posses a faith that work in love, because faith without love is totally useless.

Are you saying that we have to obey His laws before we can receive His grace?

Ubenedictus:


So yeah in a nutshell I'll say I am saved by the mercy of God who gratuitiously applies the merits of Christ on me as grace and enables me to recieve this by a faith working in love.

I don't have to merit salvation because Jesus already merited it for me, and even then I can only recieve it by faith which works in love.

Does your working in love precede your faith in Christ or is a condition for getting saved?

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