₦airaland Forum

Welcome, Guest: RegisterLoginWith GoogleTrendingRecentNew

Stats: 3,325,567 members, 8,422,603 topics. Date: Monday, 08 June 2026 at 02:09 PM

Toggle theme

Why Our Refineries Can't Work, At Least For Now. - Politics (5) - Nairaland

Nairaland ForumNairaland GeneralPoliticsWhy Our Refineries Can't Work, At Least For Now. (31810 Views)

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Reply (Go Down)

Re: Why Our Refineries Can't Work, At Least For Now. by baralatie(m): 12:24pm On May 11, 2015
Sunnybobo3:
Refining and distribution are downstream. Check again.

To add to my post above, remember we have already agreed that the refineries buy crude at international oil price.
bros refining supplies the Downstream!
Re: Why Our Refineries Can't Work, At Least For Now. by Sunnybobo3(op): 12:27pm On May 11, 2015
bigmo1:
Op, good article, but ihave questions that I would like you or any other person knowledgeable to answer.
1. How much is a litre of refined petrol directly from international refineries?
2. How much does it cost to ship down to Nigeria?
3. How much does is it cost for clearing, import duties and other sundry expenses at the port?
4. How much does it cost to transport and distribute?
5. What is the actual total amount per litre after adding all expenses.
6. How much is govt subsidizing?
Nb: for the questions above, we need genuine information not the one fabricated by NNPC, or fake ones being bandied on the internet.
7. Can't the govt itself arrange to import refined petrol wholesale or make international refineries supply the country itself, instead of using independent marketers who keep grabbing the whole nation by the balls when it deems fit?
Thanks for the above questions, however at this point, we can only rely on information provided by PPPRA.

Get the the details from here - http://pppra.gov.ng/pricing-template-pms-2/

Re: Why Our Refineries Can't Work, At Least For Now. by Whynotthetruth(m): 12:35pm On May 11, 2015
Pavore9:
But that is not the case, Let me take the case of lgbariam, a farm settlement in Anambra state which is eve closer to Delta State than where l come from. garri is more or less the same price in Umunede! They massively cultivate cassava, they have local labour mostly from Abakilaki (Ebonyi state) and both ends predominantly use firewood for the frying of the garri, me abi alumni in garri frying! cheesy cheesy cheesy
Don't deviate from the topic too much cheesy
Consider the opportunity cost of that firewood...check cost of transportation to market...cost of these available labour note they aren't indigenous labour...these inputs have much to say about local production or importation...
Re: Why Our Refineries Can't Work, At Least For Now. by Sunnybobo3(op): 12:37pm On May 11, 2015
baralatie:
bros refining supplies the Downstream!
Refining of crude is a downstream operation.

http://smallbusiness.chron.com/definitions-upstream-downstream-production-process-30971.html
Re: Why Our Refineries Can't Work, At Least For Now. by ricsman(m): 12:37pm On May 11, 2015
Whynotthetruth:
Do you know about a company called Oando PLC?...biggest beneficiary of subsidy scheme...do you know the ownershuh
yeah. own by O & O. during obj tenure. u know d rest.
they most bow ds time. or they go to jail for denying Nigeria development.
Re: Why Our Refineries Can't Work, At Least For Now. by 4Play(m): 12:39pm On May 11, 2015
@OP

I don't know how time resourced you are but you are wasting your time trying to explain how the market works to Nigerians. They love to reduce discussions to an analysis of character/personality, some have already talked about patriotism and integrity as the solutions to making local refineries work.

If it is commercially viable to refine locally, private investors would be doing so already. I understand Dangote is dipping his toe in. More importantly, any suggestion that the Government should revive our refineries is foolhardy because the Government has a clear cut record of being abject failures in managing businesses. It's not about simply having honest leaders, the Government is simply not suited for running things on a commercial basis. Despite 4 decades of abject failures, Nigerians insist on repeating the same failed policies hoping for a different outcome. I despair for Nigerians.
Re: Why Our Refineries Can't Work, At Least For Now. by Sunnybobo3(op): 12:44pm On May 11, 2015
4Play:
@OP

I don't know how time resourced you are but you are wasting your time trying to explain how the market works to Nigerians. They love to reduce discussions to an analysis of character/personality, some have already talked about patriotism and integrity as the solutions to making local refineries work.

If it is commercially viable to refine locally, private investors would be doing so already. I understand Dangote is dipping his toe in. More importantly, any suggestion that the Government should revive our refineries is foolhardy because the Government has a clear cut record of being abject failures in managing businesses. It's not about simply having honest leaders, the Government is simply not suited for running things on a commercial basis. Despite 4 decades of abject failures, Nigerians insist on repeating the same failed policies hoping for a different outcome. I despair for Nigerians.
Apt, very apt.
Re: Why Our Refineries Can't Work, At Least For Now. by Whynotthetruth(m): 12:44pm On May 11, 2015
ricsman:
yeah. own by O & O. during obj tenure. u know d rest.
they most bow ds time. or they go to jail for denying Nigeria development.
gringringringrin which party are these menhuh
Re: Why Our Refineries Can't Work, At Least For Now. by Sweetguy25: 12:52pm On May 11, 2015
These aren't reasons why the refineries can't work. The refineries can work if they're fixed and managed properly.
What you gave are reasons why there's a lack of private investment in the downstream sector.
Re: Why Our Refineries Can't Work, At Least For Now. by ricsman(m): 12:53pm On May 11, 2015
Whynotthetruth:
gringringringrin which party are these menhuh
one is trying to join APC but has not officially done dat. Lol GMB knows better ways to handle them
Re: Why Our Refineries Can't Work, At Least For Now. by 989900: 12:59pm On May 11, 2015
Pedantic article at best.

Christopher123, onegig, passing shot, and few others already spoke my mind.

How come with limited technology and exposure, we were able to build 4 refineries in the 70s/80s and refine what we needed even though oil sold for mostly less than $10/barrel then?

I remember when PMS was first increased to 70k/litre, and we were all lamenting . . .lol. grin

With improved technology and all, refining should even be cheaper than what obtained then.

Corruption can make you see blue and call it pink.
Re: Why Our Refineries Can't Work, At Least For Now. by Sunnybobo3(op): 1:07pm On May 11, 2015
baralatie:
I get your point but refineries don't sell products that way.
at the refinery end the final cost of product is "stable".it is the cost of lifting and discharge to the downstream operators that differ.that is where you have Benin 140/145 and Lagos 130(just saying)
but in the private hands it is dangerous to stockpile product over time because of 10(the losses on the installation is immense,so the best business is to pump the products with turnover sales in shortest times possible.(as long as it is not a monopolised market).hence the closet Mark et like Nigeria enjoys a more sustainable product price regime.
Refineries who export their products do not need to store the products for a long time.

When the refineries sell to the distributors, the distributors are likely to export or smuggle these products as the case may be to neighbouring countries if the margin is significantly higher and the purpose of having functionary refineries would then have been defeated.

The solution to all these is TOTAL DEREGULATION of the downstream sector of the oil industry so that market forces will determine every other thing.
Re: Why Our Refineries Can't Work, At Least For Now. by masseratti: 1:08pm On May 11, 2015
Nothing nice about this write up,its dull,there are many examples of government owned refineries in the world churning out profits,there is no difference between the fuel importers and an owner of a refinery, if the importers a paid subsidies nothing stop the Government from paying the local owner subsidies if the government want to control the price of the product, the most important thing is regulations, supervision and anti corruption crusade, those are the only things that can help us.
Re: Why Our Refineries Can't Work, At Least For Now. by baralatie(m): 1:16pm On May 11, 2015
989900:
Pedantic article at best.

Christopher123, onegig, passing shot, and few others already spoke my mind.

How come with limited technology and exposure, we were able to build 4 refineries in the 70s/80s and refine what we needed even though oil sold for mostly less than $10/barrel then?

I remember when PMS was first increased to 70k/litre, and we were all lamenting . . .lol. grin

With improved technology and all, refining should even be cheaper than what obtained then.

Corruption can make you see blue and call it pink.
three where built by govt one was by shell
the three refineries cost a total of $1.2billion and each took 3 years to be build.they a combined output of 18 million litres per day for petrol.
cost of final product is synonymous with cost at international market and standard of living ,inflation.
the refineries were always suffering concurrent shut down which required 3 months to put back.
hence the option of import inn products.
Re: Why Our Refineries Can't Work, At Least For Now. by baralatie(m): 1:17pm On May 11, 2015
masseratti:
Nothing nice about this write up,its dull,there are many examples of government owned refineries in the world churning out profits,there is no difference between the fuel importers and an owner of a refinery, if the importers a paid subsidies nothing stop the Government from paying the local owner subsidies if the government want to control the price of the product, the most important thing is regulations, supervision and anti corruption crusade, those are the only things that can help us.
examples please!
Re: Why Our Refineries Can't Work, At Least For Now. by Yemiolads(f): 1:21pm On May 11, 2015
For those of us that have binoculars focused on Buhari... http://opeyemioladotun..com/2015/05/buhari-we-dont-want-excuses-give-us.html
Re: Why Our Refineries Can't Work, At Least For Now. by baralatie(m): 1:23pm On May 11, 2015
Sunnybobo3:
Refineries who export their products do not need to store the products for a long time.

When the refineries sell to the distributors, the distributors are likely to export or smuggle these products as the case may be to neighbouring countries if the margin is significantly higher and the purpose of having functionary refineries would then have been defeated.

The solution to all these is TOTAL DEREGULATION of the downstream sector of the oil industry so that market forces will determine every other thing.
bingo!
that is why the Nation needs its local investors to build refineries like pure water thereby going beyond local supply and supply the whole west Africa region.
chai!
if say this money dey this bros hand,Rockefeller and Bill gate go fear my name.
well opputunity day sha for me!
Re: Why Our Refineries Can't Work, At Least For Now. by onegig(m):
Sunnybobo3:
The people who refine petrol in the Niger Delta using the method you described above can't be compared to conventional refineries.

1.) They do not buy their crude oil, they steal it.
2.) They do not buy the logs of fire wood you mentioned, they get it locally
It's like saying that since I can make orange juice at home with a few oranges from the orange in my garden, Nigeria can then manufacture orange juice at a price cheaper than imported ones.

Nigeria cultivates groundnut yet imported groundnut oil is cheaper.

We have large palm plantations yet it is cheaper to import oil from Malaysia.

It's not about the process, it's about the final cost of production.
Your analogy is not only wrong but faulty. Does Nigeria produce Oranges in large scale? Would it make sense if we did to first export raw oranges to South Africa and later reimport extracted juice at cut throat prices. Wont it make sense to extract and make such juice here.?

There are some things you cant rationalize away. Local refining is one of it. The price of petrol is tied to virtually everything in Nigeria. A significant reduction in pump price would lead to reduction in cost of running business, reduced price of food stuff, reduced cost of transport which in turn give more Nigerians especially the middle class and lower more disposable cash to pursue more project thus spurning retail sales and spendings and this in turn create real economic growth not the ones we hear on paper.


Also, we daily lose around 400, 000 barrels of oil. Lets assume we have a serious government that stems the theft of crude oil by 50%. that's almost 200k barrels.

If you plough into local refining . That's around 18million litres of petrol or pms. That is if you multiply by 90litres derivable from each barrel of oil. 18million litres is half the estimated daily comsumption. So question i ask you is with all these information. Do you still think we can afford it or not ;or would you rather give untaneable excuses why government is abdicating in its responsibilities.

tonychristopher:
Can I buy you beer pls

Your smart
I would prefer kunu or zobo. Lol.
Re: Why Our Refineries Can't Work, At Least For Now. by Whynotthetruth(m): 1:45pm On May 11, 2015
ricsman:
one is trying to join APC but has not officially done dat. Lol
GMB knows better ways to handle them
You know nothing bro...apologies plz...but you know next to nothing about all you have been saying here...pele
Re: Why Our Refineries Can't Work, At Least For Now. by hamilton62(m): 1:48pm On May 11, 2015
Eddygourdo:
Sorry to say this but the op is very dull. U talk about comparative advantage without indicating and arguing out what makes any situation or business perspective disadvantageous to Nigeria. To have a comparative advantage in any sector is purely dependent on good policy governance and policy implementation. The countries u mentioned how did they achieve advantages except through what I listed above. Let's stop telling stories and giving excuses for our failures as leaders and followers in managing our resources and Turning them into dividends for the benefit of the average Nigerian. Any theory can be proven to be true as u just did beautifully. But not all theories are true nor validatable. Cheers
My dear, you who is "smart" was supposed to augment his so-called dull nature with your little vital perspective as stated above...
It's time we start respecting ourselves and others on nairaland !
What are you sorry about since the ill word came after the "sorry"?
Respect is inborne and tamed bro.
Thanks.
Re: Why Our Refineries Can't Work, At Least For Now. by hamilton62(m): 2:07pm On May 11, 2015
Jowonloju:
For me i strongly believe what we need is to start refining here, so that we can power industrialization, leave competition for now. Let government divert the subsidy into making the refinery works. There is no how you would not have increase employment, and enhancing other indirect business by the time we have refinery woerking
If you don't consider competition in business that what will give your business an edge over the present strong ones available?
If the local product is more costlier don't you think marketers will import fuel in large quantity even if task is inflated to discourage them then the quantity of the imported products will be increased by marketers to beat the local price which means bad business to us as a country but good one to wealthy marketers.
Do you think industries will patronize the local product if the imported product is cheaper? No.
The Oil sector of our country need good plan and policies which will take time but Nigerians are too impatient to wait...
I pray this sector's issue is resolved soonest then we will float it affluence as a Nation.
Thanks.
Re: Why Our Refineries Can't Work, At Least For Now. by ricsman(m): 2:09pm On May 11, 2015
Whynotthetruth:
You know nothing bro...apologies plz...but you know next to nothing about all you have been saying here...pele
but u haven't said anything to show I don't know anything. whoever they are GMB will take care of them period.
Re: Why Our Refineries Can't Work, At Least For Now. by 989900: 2:10pm On May 11, 2015
December 10, 2011, if you stopped at the Mobil filling station on Old Aba Road in Port Harcourt , you would be able to buy a litre of petrol for 65 naira or $1.66 per gallon at an exchange rate of $1/N157 and 4 litres per gallon. This is the official price. The government claims that this price would have been subsidized at N73/litre and that the true price of a litre of petrol in Port Harcourt is N138/litre or $3.52 per gallon.

They are therefore determined to remove their subsidy and sell the gallon at $3.52. But, On December 10, 2011, if you stopped at the Mobil Gas station on E83rd St and Flatlands Avenue in Brooklyn, New York, USA, you would be a able to buy a gallon of petrol for $3.52/gallon. Both gallons of petrol would have been refined from Nigerian crude oil. The only difference would be that the gallon in New York was refined in a US North East refinery from Nigerian crude exported from the Qua Iboe Crude Terminal in Nigeria while the Port Harcourt gallon was either refined in Port Harcourt or imported. The idea that a gallon of petrol from Nigerian crude oil cost the same in New York as in Port Harcourt runs against basic economic logic. Hence, Nigerians suspect that there is something irrational and fishy about such pricing. What they would like to know is the exact cost of 1 litre of petrol in Nigeria .

We will answer this question in the simplest economic terms despite the attempts of the Nigerian government to muddle up the issue. What is the true cost of a litre of petrol in Nigeria ? The Nigerian government has earmarked 445000 barrel per day throughput for meeting domestic refinery products demands. These volumes are not for export. They are public goods reserved for internal consumption. We will limit our analysis to this volume of crude oil. At the refinery gate in Port Harcourt, the cost of a barrel of Qua Iboe crude oil is made up of the finding /development cost ($3.5/bbl) and a production/storage /transportation cost of $1.50 per barrel.

Thus, at $5 per barrel, we can get Nigerian Qua Iboe crude to the refining gates at Port Harcourt and Warri. One barrel is 42 gallons or 168 litres. The price of 1 barrel of petrol at the Depot gate is the sum of the cost of crude oil, the refining cost and the pipeline transportation cost. Refining costs are at $12.6 per barrel and pipeline distribution cost are $1.50 per barrel. The Distribution Margins (Retailers, Transporters, Dealers, Bridging Funds, Administrative charges etc) are N15.49/litre or $16.58 per barrel. The true cost of 1 litre of petrol at the Mobil filling station in Port Harcourt or anywhere else in Nigeria is therefore ($5 +$12.6+$1.5+$16.6) or $35.7 per barrel . This is equal to N33.36 per litre compared to the official price of N65 per litre. Prof. Tam David West is right. There is no petrol subsidy in Nigeria . Rather the current official prices are too high. Let us continue with some basic energy economics.

The government claims we are currently operating our refineries at 38.2% efficiency. When we refine a barrel of crude oil, we get more than just petrol. If we refine 1 barrel (42 gallons) of crude oil, we will get 45 gallons of petroleum products. The 45 gallons of petroleum products consist of 4 gallons of LPG, 19.5 gallons of Gasoline, 10 gallons of Diesel, 4 gallons of Jet Fuel/Kerosene, 2.5 gallons of Fuel Oil and 5 gallons of Bottoms. Thus, at 38.2% of refining capacity, we have about 170000 bbls of throughput refined for about 13.26 million litres of petrol, 6.8 million litres of diesel and 2.72 million litres of kerosene/jet fuel.

This is not enough to meet internal national demand. So, we send the remaining of our non-export crude oil volume (275000 barrels per day) to be refined abroad and import the petroleum product back into the country. We will just pay for shipping and refining. The Nigerian government exchanges the 275000 barrels per day with commodity traders (90000 barrels per day to Duke Oil, 60000 barrels per day to Trafigura (Puma Energy), 60000 barrels per day to Societe Ivoirienne de Raffinage (SIR) in Abidjan, Ivory Coast and 65000 barrels per days to unknown sources) in a swap deal. The landing cost of a litre of petrol is N123.32 and the distribution margins are N15.49 according to the government. The cost of a litre is therefore (N123.32+N15.49) or N138.81 . This is equivalent to $3.54 per gallon or $148.54 per barrel. In technical terms, one barrel of Nigerian crude oil has a volume yield of 6.6% of AGO, 20.7% of Gasoline, 9.5% of Kerosene/Jet fuel, 30.6% of Diesel, 32.6% of Fuel oil / Bottoms when it is refined.

Using a netback calculation method, we can easily calculate the true cost of a litre of imported petrol from swapped oil. The gross product revenue of a refined barrel of crude oil is the sum of the volume of each refined product multiplied by its price. Domestic prices are $174.48/barrel for AGO, $69.55/barrel for Gasoline (PMS or petrol), $172.22/barrel for Diesel Oil, $53.5/barrel for Kerosene and $129.68/barrel for Fuel Oil. Let us substitute the government imported PMS price of $148.54 per barrel for the domestic price of petrol/gasoline. Our gross product revenue per swapped barrel would be (174.48*0.066 +148.54*0.207+172.22*0.306+ 53.5*0.095+129.68*0.326) or $142.32 per barrel. We have to remove the international cost of a barrel of Nigerian crude oil ($107 per barrel) from this to get the net cost of imported swapped petroleum products to Nigerian consumers. The net cost of swapped petroleum products would therefore be $142.32 -$107 or $35.32 per barrel of swapped crude oil. This comes out to be a net of $36.86 per barrel of petrol or N34.45 per litre.

This is the true cost of a litre of imported swapped petrol and not the landing cost of N138 per litre claimed by the government. The pro-subsidy Nigerian government pretends the price of swapped crude oil is $0 per barrel (N0 per litre) while the resulting petroleum products is $148.54 per barrel (N138 per litre). The government therefore argues that the “subsidy” is N138.81-N65 or N73.81 per litre. But, if landing cost of the petroleum products is at international price ($148.54 per barrel), then the take-off price of the swapped crude oil should be at international price ($107 per barrel). This is basic economic logic outside the ideological prisms of the World Bank. The traders/petroleum products importers and the Nigerian government are charging Nigerians for the crude oil while they are getting it free.

So let us conclude this basic economic exercise. If the true price of 38.2% of our petrol supply from our local refinery is N33.36/litre and the remaining 61.8% has a true price of N34.45 per litre, then the average true price is (0.382*33.36+0.618*34.45) or N34.03 per litre. The official price is N65 per litre and the true price with government figures is about N34 per litre (even with our moribund refineries).

There is therefore no petrol subsidy. Rather, there is a high sales tax of 91.2% at current prices of N65 per litre. The labor leaders meeting the President should go with their economists. They should send economists and political scientists as representatives to the Senate Committee investigating the petroleum subsidy issue. There are many expert economists and political scientists in ASUU who will gladly represent the view of the majority. The labor leaders should not let anyone get away with the economic fallacy that the swapped oil is free while its refined products must be sold at international prices in the Nigerian domestic market.

The government should explain at what price the swapped crude oil was sold and where the money accruing from these sales have been kept. We have done this simple economic analysis of the Nigerian petroleum products market to show that there is no petrol subsidy what so ever. In the end, this debate on petrol subsidy and the attempt of the government to transfer wealth from the Nigerian masses to a petrol cabal will be decided in the streets. Nigerian workers, farmers, students, market women, youths, unemployed, NGO and civil society as a whole should prepare for a long harmattan season of protracted struggle. They should not just embark on 3 days strike/protests after which the government reduces the hiked petroleum prices by a few Nairas. They must embark upon in a sustainable struggle that will lead to fundamental changes. Let us remove our entire political subsidy from the government and end this petroleum products subsidy debate once and for all. It is time to bring the Arab Spring south.

Izielen Agbon Izielen Agbon writes from Dallas, Texas. izielenagbon@yahoo.com

He is former HOD , Petroleum Eng Dept, former ASUU chairman University of Ibadan, trained many operators in nation's energy industry with pratical experience on our practices and policy focus in the last 20yrs

http://saharareporters.com/2011/12/15/real-cost-nigeria-petrol-dr-izielen-agbon
Re: Why Our Refineries Can't Work, At Least For Now. by ricsman(m): 2:24pm On May 11, 2015
Whynotthetruth:
You know nothing bro...apologies plz...but you know next to nothing about all you have been saying here...pele
a look at ur profile told me who u are. I chat with lovers of truth
if u love Nigeria, u will pray for GMB success.
if u think pgej did well other people don't.
if u benefited others didn't
cheers
Re: Why Our Refineries Can't Work, At Least For Now. by bezimo(m): 3:04pm On May 11, 2015
The Cabalocracy operating in the downstream sector of the Nigerian oil industry is the PROBLEM.It is government of the cabals for the cabals and by the cabals.The cabals colluding with government officials to import fuel wont allow the refineries to be revamped and rebuilt.Over to you Buhari, please disband the cabals and eliminate their influence.
Re: Why Our Refineries Can't Work, At Least For Now. by Nobody: 3:12pm On May 11, 2015
So what is this op saying?we can't operate a refinery in Naija but countries like Niger can, common op...believe me Buhari will make it work,his new nick name is "Mr fix it"
Re: Why Our Refineries Can't Work, At Least For Now. by TRUTHTOPOWER: 3:23pm On May 11, 2015
Corruption and mediocrity is our problem. even PIB needs good pple to work
Re: Why Our Refineries Can't Work, At Least For Now. by Oiselenjakhian(m): 4:23pm On May 11, 2015
Hello I am a programmer. My personal website is [url]trustondevcenary.com[/url] please visit my site and get in touch with me if you want a website.

In addition [url]dreamquestmultimedia.com[/url] is my company website. We are multimedia studio with a passion for telling African stories from an African perspective.
Re: Why Our Refineries Can't Work, At Least For Now. by tonychristopher: 4:40pm On May 11, 2015
Sunnybobo3:
The market forces are not just local forces, this is an international commodity we are talking about and you can't treat Nigeria in isolation here. PMS can never be significantly cheaper in Nigeria than it is in Benin, Togo, Cameroon, Niger, Chad etc and you won't have scarcity in Nigeria. Impossible!
This is where you get it all wrong, this is the problem not only with you but with the way Nigeria try to solve local problems with foriegn solution. My dear market forces are peculiar and each market or economy (all things been equal) is peculiar and you cant use the determinant as a universla approach. what is applicable in UK might not be applicable to Nigerian economic context...this is what we have failed to understand. This is why you have and cant see any African country that is managed by these UN bBretton woods economics that is out of woods. Dude local problem determines local measure...look at china, they did not import brettonwood economist but they looked inward, the earlier Nigeria starts looking inward the better for us...this is the adverse effect of neo colonialism and wrong education...economics is a social science just like politics and each society is unique and its economic approach should be unique.


Now PMS can be signifucantly cheaper in NIgeria, what and how do you analyse micro economics, I have a thread where I analysed the reason why subsidy should be removed...https://www.nairaland.com/2301856/fuel-subsidy-us-nigeriacabal-economy


If you care read it


the simple reason why PMS will be cheaper is that we produce crude here and refine it here and that will be comparative adavantage just like BENZ will be cheaper in Germany than Saudi Arabia while PMS will be cheaper in Saudi than German...it boils down to comparativer advantage...Economics is not all about too much books but common sensical principle. That is why the igbo man in Alaba or Muhammed in Suru Alaba will grow his shop from kiosk to big business while a prof in Economics will not manage a simple kiosk...

Comparative adavantage can be summerized like this...'It is the maxim of every prudent master of a family, never to attempt to make at home what it will cost him more to make than to buy...What is prudence in the conduct of every private family, can scarce be folly in that of a great kingdom.'
Re: Why Our Refineries Can't Work, At Least For Now. by tonychristopher: 4:43pm On May 11, 2015
bezimo:
The Cabalocracy operating in the downstream sector of the Nigerian oil industry is the PROBLEM.It is government of the cabals for the cabals and by the cabals.The cabals colluding with government officials to import fuel wont allow the refineries to be revamped and rebuilt.Over to you Buhari, please disband the cabals and eliminate their influence.
Few years ago, I could remember those days they gathered at Ojota and had a carnival or jamboree in the name of subsidy protest and I laughed, I wonder and I keep wondering what sort of people that run this country. How can we be running welfares system and knowing full well how dishonest, disgruntled and disenchanted we are as a country. This subsidy is a scam, the country is in hands of few subsidy cabal, they call the shots be it in political and economic space. To me the best thing is to let the market forces which is demand and supply determine the price, availability of fuel. But NO we want freebies, welfares etc.

It does not make economic, logistic and logical sense that the cost of PMS will be the same thing in Lagos, Maiduguri, Zamfara and PH . Where do you factor logistics, overhead cost and other factors. Men nigeria and our managers are screwed. This is elementary economics
AS WE CONTINUE THIS SUBSIDY MADNESS SO DO WE LEAVE OURSELVES IN THE HAND OF FEW CABALS AND OVERNIGHT BILLIONAIRES? THEY WILL DICTATE OUR ECONOMY AND POLITICAL SPACE, MERITOCRACY AND MARKET SYSTEM WILL BE DUMPED


https://www.nairaland.com/2301856/fuel-subsidy-us-nigeriacabal-economy
Re: Why Our Refineries Can't Work, At Least For Now. by tonychristopher: 4:44pm On May 11, 2015
LOL...Thats ok


I would have loved you do brandy..but i respect your drinking style


onegig:
Your analogy is not only wrong but faulty. Does Nigeria produce Oranges in large scale? Would it make sense if we did to first export raw oranges to South Africa and later reimport extracted juice at cut throat prices. Wont it make sense to extract and make such juice here.?

There are some things you cant rationalize away. Local refining is one of it. The price of petrol is tied to virtually everything in Nigeria. A significant reduction in pump price would lead to reduction in cost of running business, reduced price of food stuff, reduced cost of transport which in turn give more Nigerians especially the middle class and lower more disposable cash to pursue more project thus spurning retail sales and spendings and this in turn create real economic growth not the ones we hear on paper.


Also, we daily lose around 400, 000 barrels of oil. Lets assume we have a serious government that stems the theft of crude oil by 50%. that's almost 200k barrels.

If you plough into local refining . That's around 18million litres of petrol or pms. That is if you multiply by 90litres derivable from each barrel of oil. 18million litres is half the estimated daily comsumption. So question i ask you is with all these information. Do you still think we can afford it or not ;or would you rather give untaneable excuses why government is abdicating in its responsibilities.


I would prefer kunu or zobo. Lol.
Re: Why Our Refineries Can't Work, At Least For Now. by Sunnybobo3(op): 5:16pm On May 11, 2015
tonychristopher:
This is where you get it all wrong, this is the problem not only with you but with the way Nigeria try to solve local problems with foriegn solution. My dear market forces are peculiar and each market or economy (all things been equal) is peculiar and you cant use the determinant as a universla approach. what is applicable in UK might not be applicable to Nigerian economic context...this is what we have failed to understand. This is why you have and cant see any African country that is managed by these UN bBretton woods economics that is out of woods. Dude local problem determines local measure...look at china, they did not import brettonwood economist but they looked inward, the earlier Nigeria starts looking inward the better for us...this is the adverse effect of neo colonialism and wrong education...economics is a social science just like politics and each society is unique and its economic approach should be unique.


Now PMS can be signifucantly cheaper in NIgeria, what and how do you analyse micro economics, I have a thread where I analysed the reason why subsidy should be removed...https://www.nairaland.com/2301856/fuel-subsidy-us-nigeriacabal-economy


If you care read it


the simple reason why PMS will be cheaper is that we produce crude here and refine it here and that will be comparative adavantage just like BENZ will be cheaper in Germany than Saudi Arabia while PMS will be cheaper in Saudi than German...it boils down to comparativer advantage...Economics is not all about too much books but common sensical principle. That is why the igbo man in Alaba or Muhammed in Suru Alaba will grow his shop from kiosk to big business while a prof in Economics will not manage a simple kiosk...

Comparative adavantage can be summerized like this...'It is the maxim of every prudent master of a family, never to attempt to make at home what it will cost him more to make than to buy...What is prudence in the conduct of every private family, can scarce be folly in that of a great kingdom.'
Bros with all due respect you are yarning theoretical economics here.

My question is simple, if PMS were to be sold in Nigeria at 130 naira per litre and 140 naira per litre in say Benin Republic, Togo, Ghana,, Cameroon, Niger and Chad, where would you as a private investor prefer to sell your product?

This has got nothing to do with Bretton woods. By the way, PMS is being subsidised heavily in Saudi Arabia.
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Reply

We Will Protect Refineries And Pipelines: Fulani GroupHow Far With Our Refineries?3 Reasons Why BIAFRA Can't Work234

Sanwo-olu: I’ve Lost Weight In Just One Week As GovernorRecreational Park At Agulu Lake That Anambra State Government Is ConstructingFubara Sent People 2 Burn Rivers Assembly Complex, Raised Ethnic Politics - Wike