₦airaland Forum

freecocoa:
where did sin come from? Satan was the finest thing God made and he made all things perfect, who them created sin?

sin comes from satan will, satan was created with one of the finest material and he was created perfect, satan don't want to play by anybody ruled,(just like an atheists) an atheist don't want to play by any ruled, that why they called themselves
"freethinker " God did not created sin , he created man and give man the ability to chose to accepts Good or reject it, and once you reject God , you fall for the opposite site of freewill "evil" which is SIN .
I do not forced you to accepts my explanation, I am satisfied with my faith in God , what is stressful in loving God and love your neighbours ? Do not steal, do not commit adultery, obey this law and we will live in peace, I understand, an atheist can even do more than obey this , but if he break this law, he needed not to feel guilty, this is nothing but. Anatomy to do as they(atheists) pleased.

malvisguy212:
sin comes from satan will, satan was created with one of the finest material and he was created perfect, satan don't want to play by anybody ruled,(just like an atheists) an atheist don't want to play by any ruled, that why they called themselves
"freethinker " God did not created sin , he created man and give man the ability to chose to accepts Good or reject it, and once you reject God , you fall for the opposite site of freewill "evil" which is SIN .
I do not forced you to accepts my explanation, I am satisfied with my faith in God , what is stressful in loving God and love your neighbours ? Do not steal, do not commit adultery, obey this law and we will live in peace, I understand, an atheist can even do more than obey this , but if he break this law, he needed not to feel guilty, this is nothing but. Anatomy to do as they(atheists) pleased.

You didn't answer the question.

If Satan was made perfect as you said, how could imperfection come out of something that's perfect?

PietraK:
We have heard it all how the world began and how Satan rebelled against God and was driven to earth.

He thereafter corrupted humans and we inherited death. We accept Jesus the savior and redeemer which qualifies us for heaven.

If heaven is pure and without sin, what tempted the devil in the first place?

Do we still have the capacity to sin when we get to heaven?

Sin is not a person, it is just doing things against God's standard of what is right.

Satan was previously perfect, having no burning urge to sin as we do today, but one's own desire could gradually lead him to sin. James 1:13-15.

That was what happened to Satan.

Being in heaven does not mean that God will insert a miraculous filter in ur thought so as not to sin, no.
Its possible that someone there will intentionally deviate from the true way. However, we should be confident that that won't happen since those who will be going to heaven are tested and confirmed. 1pet 4:12, 13

The devil didn't pass this process.

onetrack:
If we cannot choose to sin in heaven then there is no free will, we are just robots in heaven. How sad.

Before you make Heaven,the desire to sin would have vanished

Medicis:
Gush!! you sound like someone whose IQ is very low, more like a kindergarten.

He sounds like somebody that needs Love...you can see the hate in his words

JMAN05:
Sin is not a person, it is just doing things against God's standard of what is right.

Satan was previously perfect, having no burning urge to sin as we do today, but one's own desire could gradually lead him to sin. James 1:13-15.

That was what happened to Satan.

Being in heaven does not mean that God will insert a miraculous filter in ur thought so as not to sin, no.
Its possible that someone there will intentionally deviate from the true way. However, we should be confident that that won't happen since those who will be going to heaven are tested and confirmed. 1pet 4:12, 13

The devil didn't pass this process.

So why didn't an omniscient being forsee this?

freecocoa:
You didn't answer the question.

If Satan was made perfect as you said, how could imperfection come out of something that's perfect?

what is the meaning of perfect ? A perfect being without a freewill, is it perfect?

davien:
So why didn't an omniscient being forsee this?

No need, He was creating free moral agents. Besides total omniscience doesn't describe Him.

freecocoa:
It's no point even asking as they can't give an answer because all that never happened in the first place.

He made all things perfect, lucifer aka Satan, was even the most perfect, yet somehow in a perfect heaven, sin(that was nowhere before) found the most perfect thing an all knowing God created and corrupted it, where the feck did the sin come from if not from God who made all things? Nonsense.

define sin!!

PietraK:
@twosqaure Thank you.

I cannot eat Faeces because it is not food. Can you? Perhaps you can. Since you think Devil sinning is tantamount to eating faeces. Therefore, if devil could sin, you too can eat faeces.

It is a matter of fact that Evil existed even before the creation of man. Evident in God's words and it is pretty obvious that evil is normal before God. Let me explain before you hack me down for heresy or blasphemy.

Sometime ago in biblical history, God sent an evil spirit from his throne to afflict King Saul. A few more of such abound in the bible.

Secondly, The fruit we ate at the garden of eden only opened our eyes to what already exists. Perhaps Adam and Eve sinned on daily basis but could not tell from right and good. The tree of knowledge opened their eyes to see that they were naked. Being naked to me is nature but it is often classified as immoral and dirty. Why?

I dont want to distract myself, what i am saying is that Evil existed in heaven, will continue to exist till eternity.

Will Angels too be upgraded to a new state where they cannot sin anymore? The bible didnt say.

It is my submission that nature Itself is both good and evil. They balance each other.

I still wonder why we Christians dont walk naked
because that was God's plan. We got ourselves cloths that God didnt give to us naturally. Isnt that against God's plan just as we preach against ear-hole, earing and other ornaments.

I await responses

You said you can't.....sin is abominable...that's what it will look like to some people right here on earth even before the emergence of the world to come. You can't take faeces because you know what it is.....so also shall sin be to you.....you have not gotten this concept yet....sin is not ornaments, earrings or jewels...that's not sin...even Eden produces the best of precious stones used in making these things. Sin simply is being against God, not what you are taught in your sunday school that don't do this or that.....ornaments can't give you righteousness, neither can it input sin into you....who can do that is the Wicked One.

You said nature is both good and evil, YES because we partook of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil....the civilization that rules this present earth and cosmic sphere is that Good and Evil....it is still from the same tree....one root....two branches....this is what rules our world....but in the book of Revelation...you won't find it anymore, it has been cut down....Even the good is not good...what you call good is not what God calls good. If you want to know what "goodness" is, take the Tree of Life.

The first apparel was made by God....being naked is evil, coz Adam lost something on that day....it is a spiritual reprogramming that happened. The physical eyes was tuned to see earthly things...Adam had no need for these physical eyes, coz in the beginning he uses another eyes to operate, but what Lucifer did was to give another eyes to men...so, that's why you get turned on seeing the unclothedness of a woman, a piece of flesh that shouldn't make any impact on you.


God sent or an evil spirit from God means God commanded an evil spirit to go to saul.....angels don't do such errands, otherwise they will slay Saul like they did Herod....evil spirits enjoys tormenting people who disobeys God, but angels don't have time for such. Evil is not normal, it is in your eyes....but not in God's eyes...Evil came as a result of treason that happened long before you were conceived. What Satan simply told God was that, I will make these people you called MAN hate you, they won't even have the knowledge about youn some won't even believe you exist.

All what I'm trying to say to you is you should have an insight into what sin/evil is....Evil/sin is simply a knowledge that was tweaked by a Cherub. it is like having an android from the manufacturer and you "root" it, tweak it to suit your own need...that's it. Satan got his knowledge from God but manufactured(corrupt) his own to colonize others. He went forth to colonize our earth with this knowledge so right now, we are part of his colony, christians who walk in truth are rebels.

malvisguy212:
what is the meaning of perfect ? A perfect being without a freewill, is it perfect?

Who said anything about him not having free will? Freewill was part of his nature, agreed. I am asking where his bad nature came from? You said he was made perfect.

freecocoa:
where did sin come from? Satan was the finest thing God made and he made all things perfect, who them created sin?

the scriptures never said he was the finest God made, but his was extremely colourful but he discovered later that it is inferior to the beauty that the position of Adonnai carries.

twosquare:
the scriptures never said he was the finest God made, but his was extremely colourful but he discovered later that it is inferior to the beauty that the position of Adonnai carries.

ok so God made him and put sin in him?

freecocoa:
ok so God made him and put sin in him?

check the last paragraph of the comment I made to PietraK that is just above your own comment.

twosquare:
check the last paragraph of the comment I made to PietraK that is just above your own comment.

Just answer the question, where did sin come from? Or where does the will to sin come from?

freecocoa:
ok so God made him and put sin in him?

freecocoa:
Just answer the question, where did sin come from? Or where does the will to sin come from?

This is the way I see it.

The will to sin (or I prefer the ability to sin) comes from freewill. What is freewill? It is a man or angels right of choice to submit to God or not submit to God. Once you have freewill you can sin. Not that you will sin, but that you can sin if you want.

If a being has just one choice, then he doesn't have freewill. Freewill is choice; and it is not choice if it is only one option or path. Freewill means ability to obey God or to disobey God. Inherit in freewill is the potential to sin.

God didn't create sin, but He created freewill; and freewill created the potential and ability to sin. Freewill created the potential to sin, and Lucifer was the first to sin.

Now, one may ask, if God hates sin, why did He create the potential to sin? Well, I think because the only other alternative to that was creating robots, who obey because they can't do otherwise. God does not want to spend eternity with robots.

So I figured, between creating freewill (which created the potential to sin) and creating robots; God chose creating freewill.

But saying God is therefore the cause or creator of sin, is like saying marriage is the cause of divorce, or plane is the cause of plane crash, or internet is the cause of internet fraud. Ridiculous right?

And you're also missing the point. "Perfect" as used by the scriptures does not mean a being that cannot sin, it means a sinless being.

A sinless being can still sin if he so chooses because even a sinless being has freewill.

I believe you are presuming that to be called perfect is to be unable to sin. That is not true, to be perfect is to be sinless. Even so a perfect being also has a freewill.

Ecclesiates 7v29 -Lo this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.

Being perfect or upright does not mean you don't have the freewill or the power of choice to search out many inventions.

Jesus was perfect and he was the sinless lamb of God; yet he chose to go to the cross, meaning He had the choice not to go; and he learned obedience by submitting His will to that of His Father.

I believe perfect means sinless, not the inability to sin. So God made us perfect and upright (sinless) and then gave us freewill - the right to choose to remain sinless or search out many inventions.

Shalom

freecocoa:
Who said anything about him not having free will? Freewill was part of his nature, agreed. I am asking where his bad nature came from? You said he was made perfect.

you are confused , A spiritual being with the power of freewill, no one can make decision for him, he has the power to ACTS according to his will.