I'm confused I'm confused I'm confused

I will say yes!!

Yes of course

Seems so, yes.

Abeg, wires no dry pass through vacuums?

Electricity needs a medium to flow na

paranorman:
Electricity needs a medium to flow na

electricity is it's own medium. Once converted to the right form (electron beam) it can transverse a vacuum. This is a technical question,

paranorman:
Electricity needs a medium to flow na

They don't... Even high voltage electricity doesn't need a medium

Teempakguy:
electricity is it's own medium. Once converted to the right form (electron beam) it can transverse a vacuum. This is a technical question,

wow, I never knew. I ain't physicist anyway.
But wait, isn't the conductor of electricity the same medium?

paranorman:

wow, I never knew. I ain't physicist anyway.
But wait, isn't the conductor of electricity the same medium?

Lolz.
The conductor is actually a resistor. Blocking the flow of electricity. It's just that it's so lowly resistive, compared to everything else, that in the end, electricity would rather travel within it than in the surroundings. That's why semiconductors work. They provide just enough resistivity in and fluctuations to make sure the electricity is guided to produce work.

Teempakguy:
Lolz.
The conductor is actually a resistor. Blocking the flow of electricity. It's just that it's so lowly resistive, compared to everything else, that in the end, electricity would rather travel within it than in the surroundings. That's why semiconductors work. They provide just enough resistivity in and fluctuations to make sure the electricity is guided to produce work.

then explain what happens durring lightening. The ions react and produce flashes, which I suppose is electricity.
We got static electricity where we have ions sitting idly, doing no work. In lay language, when ions reach it produces energy and when set on motion produces it becomes current.

What then is electricity? I suppose this is when the + and - charged particles workout and produces current na.

In a perfect vacuum (with absolutely no matter) you can't have electricity since there's no place for moving electrons to pass. But in a vacuum with no air, if there's a high enough voltage, the electrons can propel themselves through the vacuum without a conductor. Another possibility is that is there's even a slight amount of air it can act as a conductor given the righ voltage.

I think this is a very tricky question. Now electricity is the flow of electrons through a medium, however electrons can be propagated through vacuum in the form of energy I.e electromagnetism, infra, ultraviolet etc.
I know you might be thinking what about crt, in a crt the cathode is heat to enable the electron escape and make the jump to the anode. Now the more the distance between them, the greater the energy required to make the jump.

UyiIredia:
In a perfect vacuum (with absolutely no matter) you can't have electricity since there's no place for moving electrons to pass. But in a vacuum with no air, if there's a high enough voltage, the electrons can propel themselves through the vacuum without a conductor. Another possibility is that is there's even a slight amount of air it can act as a conductor given the righ voltage.

are you aware that beta rays are a form of electricity?
Once converted into the right form, electricity can be made to act as a form of electromagnetic force. One of the most fundamental forces in the universe. The atom is governed by electricity among other things, and it exists in a vacuum.

paranorman:

then explain what happens durring lightening. The ions react and produce flashes, which I suppose is electricity.
We got static electricity where we have ions sitting idly, doing no work. In lay language, when ions reach it produces energy and when set on motion produces it becomes current.

What then is electricity? I suppose this is when the + and - charged particles workout and produces current na.

in Lightning, electrons take the path with the least resistance. Which means that some parts of the atmosphere have more resistance than other parts. The light is produced by photon emission which occurs when the electrons hit some atoms, exciting them.

Current and static electricity are just manifestations of a more fundamental force. The electromagnetic force. This is one of the forces that hold the atom together. Take an electron. This is the unit of electricity. When you strip an election from it's atom, it optimizes it's motion. Jumping from atom to atom. Through the vaccums between those atoms but first, something has to attract it. It's that attraction that enable the electron to even move. And when there is no attraction, the electron wouldn't be able to even move. That's one of the differences between conductors and resistors.

In a complete vaccum, provided enough attraction is provided, an electron will travel several meters from one place to another at almost the speed of light.

It can do this because electricity is a product of particle movement. The units of electricty have mass and can therefore move in vacuums. Compared with sound, sound is the product of particle vibration. So, you need particles to be lined up between A and B so they can transfer sound from A to B. But electricity, you need just one particle to move from A to B.

You grab my drift?

Teempakguy:
in Lightning, electrons take the path with the least resistance. Which means that some parts of the atmosphere have more resistance than other parts. The light is produced by photon emission which occurs when the electrons hit some atoms, exciting them.

Current and static electricity are just manifestations of a more fundamental force. The electromagnetic force. This is one of the forces that hold the atom together. Take an electron. This is the unit of electricity. When you strip an election from it's atom, it optimizes it's motion. Jumping from atom to atom. Through the vaccums between those atoms but first, something has to attract it. It's that attraction that enable the electron to even move. And when there is no attraction, the electron wouldn't be able to even move. That's one of the differences between conductors and resistors.

In a complete vaccum, provided enough attraction is provided, an electron will travel several meters from one place to another at almost the speed of light.

It can do this because electricity is a product of particle movement. The units of electricty have mass and can therefore move in vacuums. Compared with sound, sound is the product of particle vibration. So, you need particles to be lined up between A and B so they can transfer sound from A to B. But electricity, you need just one particle to move from A to B.

You grab my drift?

i get it now. It's about the force.
F=ma.

So, what really is resistance? I mean why are the atoms of resistive elements stingy?

What are semi-conductors and what makes them special?

paranorman:

i get it now. It's about the force.
F=ma.

So, what really is resistance? I mean why are the atoms of resistive elements stingy?

What are semi-conductors and what makes them special?

bonding is the key. Covalent bonds, ionic bonds . . .
Imagine two people. Name them A and B
A has a basketball. B wants to touch the basketball. A can say, well okay, have it. In which case, of a random basket ball came out of nowhere, he would be able to catch it because his hands are free. But if A said, no bloody way. I can't survive without touching my basket ball. So, you can touch it. But I also have to touch it. So, now, both A and B are clutching on basket ball. If a random basket ball should come flying, none of them would be able to catch it. In the atomic world, A and B are atoms. The basketball is an electron. The part where A completely surrenders the ball is called ionic bonding. The other scenario is called covalent.

One thing you need to understand about the atomic world is that there is no propulsion system. The electron doesn't have muscles, or rocket boots, and we know that motion is caused by force, right? So . . . where do we get these forces? Forces that can make the electron move. Well, you would need something like a small magnet . . . I don't know, a "charge" maybe?
Yes, a charge does the trick. But alas, normal atoms have no charge! Because their protons are balanced with their electrons. But what happens when you remove or add electrons? Yay! Force achieved. The electron jumps from it's initial position to where the charge is! But in a case where the atom doesn't want to surrender any atoms or even gain. No charge. No motion.

Now, in a wire, an electron jumps from atom to atom, creating a net charge. But not all is easy. Instead of the electron to proceed as planned, it sometimes hits other atoms, other electrons, and some other subatomic particles.(I can't say)
It would be best to just place the final atom and the initial atom ONLY in a vacuum, and then the electron would just jump straight to it. But in a wire, you have like billions of atoms between atom A and B. Eventually, they help, but they also don't . . . in a way.
And that's the basic concept of resistance. How many neutral atoms the electron will hit, slowing it's speed, destroying it, sending it back and so on . . .

Semiconductors are actually insulators, but they can be doped with conductors to make them do all sort of cool tricks. For instance, they can make sure once an electron leaves an atom, it NEVER goes back.
They can also make electrons go faster/in larger numbers. Think of them as streets with traffic signs.

Thanks Teempakguy, I always thought that it works in a vacuum because it is electromagnetic in nature, it requires no material medium to propagate.

ElectGINeer:
Thanks Teempakguy, I always thought that it works in a vacuum because it is electromagnetic in nature, it requires no material medium to propagate.

you are indeed right.

Teempakguy:
bonding is the key. Covalent bonds, ionic bonds . . .
Imagine two people. Name them A and B
A has a basketball. B wants to touch the basketball. A can say, well okay, have it. In which case, of a random basket ball came out of nowhere, he would be able to catch it because his hands are free. But if A said, no bloody way. I can't survive without touching my basket ball. So, you can touch it. But I also have to touch it. So, now, both A and B are clutching on basket ball. If a random basket ball should come flying, none of them would be able to catch it. In the atomic world, A and B are atoms. The basketball is an electron. The part where A completely surrenders the ball is called ionic bonding. The other scenario is called covalent.

One thing you need to understand about the atomic world is that there is no propulsion system. The electron doesn't have muscles, or rocket boots, and we know that motion is caused by force, right? So . . . where do we get these forces? Forces that can make the electron move. Well, you would need something like a small magnet . . . I don't know, a "charge" maybe?
Yes, a charge does the trick. But alas, normal atoms have no charge! Because their protons are balanced with their electrons. But what happens when you remove or add electrons? Yay! Force achieved. The electron jumps from it's initial position to where the charge is! But in a case where the atom doesn't want to surrender any atoms or even gain. No charge. No motion.

Now, in a wire, an electron jumps from atom to atom, creating a net charge. But not all is easy. Instead of the electron to proceed as planned, it sometimes hits other atoms, other electrons, and some other subatomic particles.(I can't say)
It would be best to just place the final atom and the initial atom ONLY in a vacuum, and then the electron would just jump straight to it. But in a wire, you have like billions of atoms between atom A and B. Eventually, they help, but they also don't . . . in a way.
And that's the basic concept of resistance. How many neutral atoms the electron will hit, slowing it's speed, destroying it, sending it back and so on . . .

Semiconductors are actually insulators, but they can be doped with conductors to make them do all sort of cool tricks. For instance, they can make sure once an electron leaves an atom, it NEVER goes back.
They can also make electrons go faster/in larger numbers. Think of them as streets with traffic signs.

honestly, I know some these things you wrote up here, I just love to statisfy my curiosity. I Love thhe way you explain thaings.

I learned a thing or two, thanks.

Wel, as a matter of discusion, I suppose the energy needed to exite the electron(s) got to be absorbed from a source, say Light, heat or so.
Einstein really redefined physics.
God bless his memory!
I need more explanation on this semiconductor thing.

Hmmmnn.... If electricity flows through a vacuum, what can you say about Vacuum Circuit Breakers(VCB) then?

In my opinion there is nothing like vacuum my friends, you can approach a vacuum state as much as possible, but you can never get to that state, its like vacuum, if you cannot get to a state, approximate that state to solve a problem, in my own understanding it is not possible to say that cunduction through vacuum is possible, in the case of production of electricity through DC, i think it is not possible, sice the flow of electrons depends on the connection of the atomic or molecular particles, so one single hole in an atomic species in the electrolyte initiates the process, but this cannot be possible if the atoms or molecules do not have their virtual orbitals intersecting, hence the electrons having the tendency of switching between orbitals of neigbouring atoms or molecules, for the creation of current from magnetism, there might be a possibility at high voltages, i am on tring to understand why electrons can move on the influence of magnetism.

wonda26:
Hmmmnn.... If electricity flows through a vacuum, what can you say about Vacuum Circuit Breakers(VCB) then?

I like this thread and I like the quote above more.


Electricity can be propagated in a vacuum if and only its frequency is very high - just as the frequency of a Light wave(electromagnetic wave).

Normal Electricity DC, AC (0 - 500Hz) cannot be propagated via a vacuum; they are too heavy (just like in particle duality of matter.). The electricity that can be propagated via a vacuum must be in a radio wave, light wave, infrared, ultraviolet, etc.

We need to understand what a vacuum means; it means no presence of atom, electron, whatever you can imagine. So no matter the kind of bonding(electrovalent, covalent, van Der waals forces) our everyday electricity will definitely need some electrons to flow.

Teempakguy, I would like you to research more on Townsend's theories on breakdown of gaseous insulators and corona discharge, it will expand your knowledge on lightening. I like your explanations too, its very illustrative.

UyiIredia:
In a perfect vacuum (with absolutely no matter) you can't have electricity since there's no place for moving electrons to pass. But in a vacuum with no air, if there's a high enough voltage, the electrons can propel themselves through the vacuum without a conductor. Another possibility is that is there's even a slight amount of air it can act as a conductor given the righ voltage.

is that so what about cathode ray/vacuum tubes.

tartar9:
is that so what about cathode ray/vacuum tubes.

The tubes can become the conductor.

saintneo:

The tubes can become the conductor.

the electrons travel through the vacuum in the tube.

tartar9:
the electrons travel through the vacuum in the tube.

First there has to be a source and a sink. The source will emit the electrons/positrons as a beam/electromagnetic wave and the sink will receive them.
Also, the potential difference between the source and the sink must be very high so as to create a path within the vacuum for the electrons to travel.

http://blog.sciencegeekgirl.com/2009/06/11/can-a-vacuum-become-a-conductor-or-the-physics-of-electron-flow/

wikipedia

Conduction in Vacuum
Since a "perfect vacuum" contains no charged particles, it normally behaves as a perfect insulator. However, metal electrode surfaces can cause a region of the vacuum to become conductive by injecting free electrons or ions through either field electron emission or thermionic emission. Thermionic emission occurs when the thermal energy exceeds the metal's work function , while field electron emission occurs when the electric field at the surface of the metal is high enough to cause
tunneling , which results in the ejection of free electrons from the metal into the vacuum. Externally heated electrodes are often used to generate an electron cloud as in the filament or indirectly heated cathode of vacuum tubes. Cold electrodes can also spontaneously produce electron clouds via thermionic emission when small incandescent regions (called cathode spots or anode spots ) are formed. These are incandescent regions of the electrode surface that are created by a localized high current. These regions may be initiated by
field electron emission, but are then sustained by localized thermionic emission once a vacuum arc forms. These small electron-emitting regions can form quite rapidly, even explosively, on a metal surface subjected to a high electrical field. Vacuum tubes and sprytrons are some of the electronic switching and amplifying devices based on vacuum conductivity.




https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_current

tartar9:
is that so what about cathode ray/vacuum tubes.

In cathode tube electrons which acquire enough energy to jump the distance between the cathode and anode since there is resistant in between them. Electrical energy can be propagated through vacuum as electromagnetic

wonda26:
Hmmmnn.... If electricity flows through a vacuum, what can you say about Vacuum Circuit Breakers(VCB) then?

that's different.
It only works on current electricity with low frequency.