I was having an argument with some people about the developed/developing countries and roles the government and individuals play in their development. I am arguing that inputs from individuals in this countries led to an improvement of both the government and the societies but they are saying the government should take the credit instead.

Without people like Jamsetji Tata, Andrew Carnegie, Andrew Carnegie, Rockefeller, etc, most of this countries wouldn't be where they are today. So i have two questions:
(1) Who should be credited for their ideas and innovation leading to developing this countries?? i.e where do you stand in this argument??

(2) AS Africans (using Nigeria as a point of reference), Why do we seem unable to produce individuals like this??

both

trublood:
I was having an argument with some people about the developed/developing countries and roles the government and individuals play in their development. I am arguing that inputs from individuals in this countries led to an improvement of both the government and the societies but they are saying the government should take the credit instead.

Without people like Jamsetji Tata, Andrew Carnegie, Andrew Carnegie, Rockefeller, etc, most of this countries wouldn't be where they are today. So i have two questions:
(1) Who should be credited for their ideas and innovation leading to developing this countries?? i.e where do you stand in this argument??

(2) AS Africans (using Nigeria as a point of reference), Why do we seem unable to produce individuals like this??

let us Starr with america legend
1,George Washington
followed by
2,Abraham Lincoln
and then the rest just fell in place by Gods' Grace!

it is both consisting of its culture of governance, businesses, trade and commerce and power likewise faith.
for example,if rockyfella kept all his wealth in france where would america be.if Andrew Carnegie kept his headquarter in France,where would USA be.if bill gates and all their brains shipped to France with their wealth.how far with american dream.
if Hollywood moved to France........
you get the problem now?

baralatie:

let us Starr with america legend
1,George Washington
followed by
2,Abraham Lincoln
and then the rest just fell in place by Gods' Grace!

it is both consisting of its culture of governance, businesses, trade and commerce and power likewise faith.
for example,if rockyfella kept all his wealth in france where would america be.if Andrew Carnegie kept his headquarter in France,where would USA be.if bill gates and all their brains shipped to France with their wealth.how far with american dream.
if Hollywood moved to France........
you get the problem now?

Yeah that is true, but then look at a country like India, i don't know much about their history so i might be wrong, but even though the British didn't industrialize the country and with a high level of corruption, they still produced individuals like Jamsetji Tata, Dhirubhai Ambani, Kailash Chandra Mahindra and their likes

trublood:
I was having an argument with some people about the developed/developing countries and roles the government and individuals play in their development. I am arguing that inputs from individuals in this countries led to an improvement of both the government and the societies but they are saying the government should take the credit instead.

Without people like Jamsetji Tata, Andrew Carnegie, Andrew Carnegie, Rockefeller, etc, most of this countries wouldn't be where they are today. So i have two questions:
(1) Who should be credited for their ideas and innovation leading to developing this countries?? i.e where do you stand in this argument??

(2) AS Africans (using Nigeria as a point of reference), Why do we seem unable to produce individuals like this??

Must they be rich people? I didn't find a Richard Feynman there, nor a Nikola Tesla.

Yes, you are right. Individuals even make government to start with, so it's pretty obvious individuals make a nation. However, if governments do not support with innovative legislations, you can't expect a country to achieve that much regardless of how desiring the individuals are for change.

Case in point: google wecyclers and see how one woman is pushing the boundaries here in Nigeria in the recycling business. One can't talk too much about what this lady is doing and how it holds serious potential for changing this country. Yet, there's a government that doesn't have a policy on recycling, nor is willing to promulgate laws that could not only expand business in that industry, but also reorientate the handling of waste in its urban regions.

America's early 20th century legislations in the oil industry were actually greatly instrumental to the change Rockefeller and co. saw to. Same thing in the area of electricity where Edison could do wonders. Same, again, with Ford and the auto industry. If the government of the day had stifled these men's desire to affect lives, I don't think much would have been achieved in that era.

Antoinne:

Must they be rich people? I didn't find a Richard Feynman there, nor a Nikola Tesla.

Yes, you are right. Individuals even make government to start with, so it's pretty obvious individuals make a nation. However, if governments do not support with innovative legislations, you can't expect a country to achieve that much regardless of how desiring the individuals are for change.

Case in point: google wecyclers and see how one woman is pushing the boundaries here in Nigeria in the recycling business. One can't talk too much about what this lady is doing and how it holds serious potential for changing this country. Yet, there's a government that doesn't have a policy on recycling, nor willing to promulgate laws that could not only expand business in that industry, but also reorientate the handling of waste in its urban regions.

Lol i wanted to use few names most people are familiar with, most people don't know who Richard Feynman is.

Yes i have heard of Wecyclers, but i think what she needs most are investor(s) in her business. The reason why i say this is even though the government do not have laws or policies to enable her expand, the way the government and our laws are shaped gives enough room(leeway) for someone like her to expand her business astronomically if she has enough backing, and again this is where individuals come into play

Not sure if that makes sense though

emperorceaser:
The government builds the society to become great.. .
The government are meant to provide conducive environment (good roads, hospitals, electricity e. T.c) for the individuals in the country....

Capitalism all relies on the individuals to take advantage of an opportunity to make the society great....

In nigeria everybody is looking for white collar job and no one likes hearing of agriculture

That is true, but there is another way of looking at it, most times especially in developed countries the innovation or effort of an individual(s) forces the government to make laws that will provide that a conducive environment for that business, for example if a person builds a world class hospital in maybe Ondo state, the government of the state( even if it is corrupt) will be forced to create a condition in which that hospital strives due to the amount of potential income and exposure it will receive

trublood:


Yeah that is true, but then look at a country like India, i don't know much about their history so i might be wrong, but even though the British didn't industrialize the country and with a high level of corruption, they still produced individuals like Jamsetji Tata, Dhirubhai Ambani, Kailash Chandra Mahindra and their likes

well the history of Indian is just like China and Japan.it has a depth of literarature as to its capacity to modernization and development.by the time you add the name MAHATMA GANDHI to Indian modern history.
it is not far fetched why that class of Hindus will not perform(once again you see the effect of CULTURE OF GOVERNANCE AND ITS PEOPLE SIDE BY SIDE)

trublood:


Lol i wanted to use few names most people are familiar with, most people don't know who Richard Feynman is.

Yes i have heard of Wecyclers, but i think what she needs most are investor(s) in her business. The reason why i say this is even though the government do not have laws or policies to enable her expand, the way the government and our laws are shaped gives enough room(leeway) for someone like her to expand her business astronomically if she has enough backing, and again this is where individuals come into play

Not sure if that makes sense though

Trust me, investors don't just invest because they like a business. Investors put their money into businesses where they see irrefutable hope for gain. Auto manufacturers started moving into Nigeria, or at least started contemplating moving into Nigeria, after the federal government promulgated laws, or at least indicated signs of promulgating laws, that significantly increased import tariffs on cars. A country like Indonesia has a lot of car manufacturers because it costs more to import a car than to buy one locally. That's a simple government trick to encourage investment.

Investors may like her business, but to them who's to say the government can't wake up tomorrow and make her life more difficult? However, if investors see a desire by the government to tighten regulations on recycling in her favor, or in favor of her business, her business will suddenly become the next best thing after dorobucci. But it won't stop there. No! Rather, it will encourage even more people to set up similar franchises, competitors. The overall effect will strengthen the economy.

Don't know if you heard about the Enron scandal. When that happened and became public, a US legislation followed which elaborated on how companies should handle financial transactions. This new regulation is one of the financial codes most companies, not just US coys, follow now. And certainly it has improved accountability and transparency. That's just one indication of how governments should react to enrich an economy. Heard about the No Fear legislation? Google it. A Nigerian-American whistleblower was being victimized by her company. Case went to congress and a new legislation came out protecting whistleblowers. Now, even more people are encouraged to become whistleblowers. You see? Thousands of examples abound, mostly US examples though.

Can the same be said of Nigeria? I don't think so. So, yes individuals go a long way in making a nation. But if not pushed along the way by the government, there's really very little they can achieve in national terms.

trublood:


That is true, but there is another way of looking at it, most times especially in developed countries the innovation or effort of an individual(s) forces the government to make laws that will provide that a conducive environment for that business, for example if a person builds a world class hospital in maybe Ondo state, the government of the state( even if it is corrupt) will be forced to create a condition in which that hospital strives due to the amount of potential income and exposure it will receive

I understand your point here. But really, the only person who would build the hospital first before a government makes law to benefit his investment can only be a Mother Theresa or a Gandhi with immeasurable wealth. There are of course such people, but maybe 1 in a million. Any country waiting for such person to come along will tarry in the depths of under-development for a long time. 1 in a million persons don't come around every other year. Every other 5 years seems more like it. And remember, he must still first grow into an adult and must, by some chance of goodwill, have money

baralatie:

well the history of Indian is just like China and Japan.it has a depth of literarature as to its capacity to modernization and development.by the time you add the name MAHATMA GANDHI to Indian modern history.
it is not far fetched why that class of Hindus will not perform(once again you see the effect of CULTURE OF GOVERNANCE AND ITS PEOPLE SIDE BY SIDE)

Yeah that is absolutely right, we really did go wrong somewhere along the line

Antoinne:

I understand your point here. But really, the only person who would build the hospital first before a government makes law to benefit his investment can only be a Mother Theresa or a Gandhi with immeasurable wealth. There are of course such people, but maybe 1 in a million. Any country waiting for such person to come along will tarry in the depths of under-development for a long time. 1 in a million persons don't come around every other year. Every other 5 years seems more like it. And remember, he must still first grow into an adult and must, by some chance of goodwill, have money

unfortunately that is the case. It might be wishful thinking but i honestly feel that i what we need. I know most people say the country will develop when the government wakes up, but i have this belief that the future of Nigeria and Africa as a whole lies in the Private sector. It is much to ask but we do need an individual or individuals to step up and pave the way for others. Where that individual will come from i have absolutely no idea.

trublood:


unfortunately that is the case. It might be wishful thinking but i honestly feel that i what we need. I know most people say the country will develop when the government wakes up, but i have this belief that the future of Nigeria and Africa as a whole lies in the Private sector. It is much to ask but we do need an individual or individuals to step up and pave the way for others. Where that individual will come from i have absolutely no idea.

trust me they are springing all over the place faster than you can imagine.
I think you are going to witness what people never thought can happen.
for example, NAIRALAND!!
who would ever thought?

baralatie:

trust me they are springing all over the place faster than you can imagine.
I think you are going to witness what people never thought can happen.
for example, NAIRALAND!!
who would ever thought?

On the contrary, i beg to defer. There is one strong component lacking in most Nigerian businesses including Nairaland, and it is they lack or don't invest in Research and development. look at Nairaland now, and couple of years back, their hasn't been much improvement, there is this mentality we seem to have which is as far as it works and make money, there is no need to improve upon it. Facebook for example, even with the success they had, they didn't stop there instead they kept on going till today.

Look at Dangote, a manufacturing company but it doesn't have a strong R& department, compared to its counterparts around the world who invest heavily in that department so always come up with new efficient and innovative ways of doing things. Again, another example is Innoson motors, they basically just replicate designs and systems used in other countries instead of researching into what would work here.
Again i might be wrong

trublood:


On the contrary, i beg to defer. There is one strong component lacking in most Nigerian businesses including Nairaland, and it is they lack or don't invest in Research and development. look at Nairaland now, and couple of years back, their hasn't been much improvement, there is this mentality we seem to have which is as far as it works and make money, there is no need to improve upon it. Facebook for example, even with the success they had, they didn't stop there instead they kept on going till today.

Look at Dangote, a manufacturing company but it doesn't have a strong R& department, compared to its counterparts around the world who invest heavily in that department so always come up with new efficient and innovative ways of doing things. Again, another example is Innoson motors, they basically just replicate designs and systems used in other countries instead of researching into what would work here.
Again i might be wrong

r&d
hmmmm

baralatie:

r&d
hmmmm

why hmmm??

trublood:


why hmmm??

research is a strong point which Nigeria has a lot of input but the applications are exported overseas!

baralatie:

research is a strong point which Nigeria has a lot of input but the applications are exported overseas!

True, and this is mostly due to the fact that most indigenous companies are not receptive to research, i have no idea why. It just seems like they prefer to stick to what works or always work for them and therefore remain stagnant. or they just diversify into a different niche.

One business that will strive well in the country is a Business development Company, i don't know why most people haven't considered this line of business.

Anyways, i think we need to develop a strong affirmation for research and development, though i think this has to start from or Higher educational institutions, but then for a country like Nigeria that is too much to ask for.

You guys have a great ideas....
But I'm thinking about something recently about if govt can invest a lot in us,youth... By setting up some practical(innovative) institutions around the country and if its states also...
But you guys said the country and africa future is in private sector but govt also need a role in that too...
Look at what OBJ did for our banking sector now look at our banking sector today one of the in Africa...

No need for a long reply. BOTH!!!